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TL;DR - We hear your concerns loud and clear. We are doing what we can to help correct things that aren’t working how they should as soon as we possible!
To the StarCraft community,
As the Content Director at DingIt, I am in the privileged position to allocate our funding to various eSport and gaming content worldwide. Having launched into our Beta back in Feb’15, we have been fortunate to have got such passionate thoughts and feedback on our service that has helped to shape where we are today and will continue to help plan our future development and growth. The StarCraft community has had a major role to play in this, in no small part due to us committing a large portion of our content budget to StarCraft events during 2015. We have supported multiple showmatches and leagues (notably ASL) that have seen both up and coming players given the chance to compete as well as provide a regular event series for pro players around the globe. In 2015 alone we spent over $60,000 supporting 160+ broadcasts (that’s nearly a broadcast every other day since we launched for SC2.)
As part of our continued growth plan in 2016, we had the opportunity to sponsor StarLeague. Being big fans of StarCraft, the opportunity to support one of the best leagues was really exciting. It also allows us to test the demand for premier level StarCraft 2 and will help shape our content investment in the game throughout 2016. We have also heard loud and clear some of the communities concerns about StarLeague being exclusively on DingIt and I will do my best to address the main points in this post.
HD quality won't be paywalled going forward
One of the benefits of DingIt is that we can provide true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate than other platforms meaning more viewers can enjoy seeing the streams in the best possible quality. For the vast majority of the content we produce we have this quality open to all, free of charge. SPOTV wanted HD to be behind a paywall for StarLeague, but with the help of community feedback we have been able to negotiate this to be removed going forward.
Increasing Viewership
With StarLeague being an established, premier event, there are expectations of viewership. Moving this event to not only a new channel but a new streaming platform will always see an initial decrease in viewers, but what is reassuring is the increase in viewership we are seeing week on week. Unique viewers from week 2 to 3 increased by 3x and peak concurrent increase 2.3x - a trend we expect to continue. We aren’t however complacent and have put some strategies in place on a global basis to dedicate some of our marketing and advertising specifically to StarLeague to attract both existing and new StarCraft fans.
Additionally, DingIt is a sustainable platform that is already in profit and as a result we are able to fuel more investment in content. We are committed to the gaming communities that we invest in for the long term and StarCraft is a part of that. We intend to continue and expand our investment into both existing and new StarCraft content to help grow the community.
Advertising Quality
Dingit is a business that is advertiser funded, meaning we are able to commit content investment as a result of bringing in advertising revenue. Back in Sept 2015, we had some issues with ads that were directing users to less desirable content which we immediately remedied. We work hard to make sure that the advertising that our audience sees is relevant and appropriate. To do this, we constantly monitor the kinds of ads that are delivered, but as a global platform, occasionally ads get through which we are not happy with. Ad providers that try to push through unsuitable ads of any description are removed from our platform immediately. We will continue to refine and improve the way we ensure that the ads are high quality.
Preventing Adblock
As you may be aware, creating content and then providing a stream costs quite a lot of money.. We have developed an adblock prevention system so that we can generate enough money to pay our content creators / players and casters a decent wage and continue to invest in new broadcasts. If users prefer not to have adverts, there is the option to subscribe either to the channel or site wide to remove ads.
The Plugin/Chrome Extension
This section is going to be a little longer, as I have liaised with our technical team to give a more detailed answer to why it is needed.
To address a few often raised concerns, the plugin/extension does not contain any malicious software, it does not utilise P2P, is not using your computer to mine bitcoins and does not steal your secret SC2 build orders. The only use of the plugin is to allow your browser to display the stream. The technology is built in partnership with Akamai and is featured on the Apple App Store and Google Play store.
Why DingIt uses a different system for streaming to other platforms? There are two main reasons; cost and quality.
From a cost perspective, the systems that run other streaming platforms are hugely expensive (both infrastructure and ongoing costs.) As a result, the profit generated from advertising is low and content creators don’t make much money from revenue shares. You only need to look at the reliance of broadcasters on subscriptions / donations to see how much of an issue this is. Subscriptions / donations only come from a small % of the total audience. The cost savings our tech allows for greater profit per viewer which in turn allows our broadcasters and content creators to generate much better revenue per viewer and creates a much more sustainable eSports eco-system. The cost savings are only becoming more important as the demand for HD, 60fps and 4k etc increases.
From a quality perspective, a standard TCP video stream was never built to handle live video streams, let alone HD streams. As a result, viewers can often experience large stream delay, buffering and quality loss which is especially noticeable if you are not geographically near infrastructure of the streaming platform.
So how is DingIt different? Working with Akamai (the world's largest CDN) we created a much more efficient system to deliver a video stream to the end user. It isn’t just one step that provides this benefit but multiple steps which together provide a significant benefit. A traditional video stream goes from the broadcaster, to the ingest server, to the transcode server, to the CDN and finally to the viewer. Each step results in a loss of quality, increase in delay and a chance for error which could result in buffering. With DingIt, thanks to our own broadcast app and the Akamai stream acceleration technology, the broadcast goes directly from the broadcaster to the CDN and on to the end user. This revolutionary method of stream delivery removes a lot of the steps that traditional platforms have to follow and as a result, provide the following benefits for the viewer; far less buffering, a much reduced stream delay and more stable stream experience which provides the same quality as other platforms, but for a lower bitrate. This means more viewers can enjoy HD streams, worldwide. The work we have done with Akamai is significant for video streaming as a whole, not just gaming and as a result we were invited to speak at the Akamai Edge conference in 2015.
The plugin is required because the browser alone cannot work with our streaming technology as it isn’t able to decode the UDP stream. All the plugin does is decode the UDP stream. We also developed the Chrome extension as a direct response to users who didn’t want to install a .exe to watch, although globally the plugin is the preferred method of viewing.
If you want more information about our tech, the following links are useful:
Again, thank you all for your feedback on the platform. We do listen to all of your feedback and make changes where and when possible. There is constantly development going on to improve DingIt, and while announcements may not be instant there is always progress being made!
If you have any questions, leave a comment and I will do my best to answer as many as I can.
Looking forward to watching the rest of StarLeague with you all!
Adam “Madals” Simmons - Content Director, DingIt TV
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So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then
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Sad to hear it's staying on Dingit.
The stream doesn't load from the west half of Australia at lowest quality on Dingit, so I guess thats no SSL for me this year 
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I admit i looked for alternatives when i was asked to install an extension. Hm, i guess i'l give it a try though.
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Additionally, DingIt is a sustainable platform that is already in profit and as a result we are able to fuel more investment in content.
why and how
otherwise ok.
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On January 26 2016 02:10 hachicken wrote:Sad to hear it's staying on Dingit. The stream doesn't load from the west half of Australia at lowest quality on Dingit, so I guess thats no SSL for me this year
SSL is pretty fast with its VoDs on youtube. Takes em about 2-6 hours normally to upload all games.
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On January 26 2016 02:10 hachicken wrote:Sad to hear it's staying on Dingit. The stream doesn't load from the west half of Australia at lowest quality on Dingit, so I guess thats no SSL for me this year
Sorry to hear the stream isn't working for you, have you tried the steps here? http://kb.dingit.tv/article/121-extension-error-stream-is-not-working
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On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then
You can watch the VoDs on Youtube.
What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare the same resolution streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better.
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On January 26 2016 02:19 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then You can watch the VoDs on Youtube. What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare 1080p streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better.
Bitrate is only one factor that decides the quality of a stream. Every time the stream is transcoded or moved there is a quality loss, not to mention if data isn't received. We also use UDP rather than TCP which shaves off a bit more data required for the stream.
What we mean by true 1080, 60 is that the stream is stable at that quality. There is far less fluctuation in quality and frame rate in our tech compared to traditional streaming tech.
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On January 26 2016 02:17 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +Additionally, DingIt is a sustainable platform that is already in profit and as a result we are able to fuel more investment in content. why and how otherwise ok.
Indeed. How? Madals are you saying that the advertising revenue is making DingIT cash flow positive?
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/streaming-service-dingit-raises-1-5m-in-funding/0148728
It's widely reported that DingIT received 1.5 MM in funding last year, so I'm wondering if that funding is still covering basic business items such as G&A? I don't know the viewership numbers across all DingIT streams but it seems like a stretch to say Ad revenue is covering all of your expenses, but I do enjoy being proved wrong.
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Think I'm going to stay with the VODs then.
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the stream worked fine for me but of course it's a little bit sad that it isn't on twitch because there the viewer numbers will always be higher.
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every time madals makes one of these awkward shill posts for dingit i feel more and more determined to never ever even consider using it
i mean, i'm not judging the guy personally. clearly his job now is to be a spokesperson for this thing nobody wants or cares about, and he has a right to do that if he wants. but i don't think i'm the only one who feels this way
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Not only am I going to ignore the live viewing of SSL due to Dingit, I'm not even particularly interested in watching the VoDs since SSL is chained to Dingit.
I've got plenty of Starcraft I can enjoy elsewhere, luckily. :D
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can you do a tl;dr
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me?
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On January 26 2016 02:23 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:19 Ansibled wrote:On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then You can watch the VoDs on Youtube. What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare 1080p streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better. Bitrate is only one factor that decides the quality of a stream. Every time the stream is transcoded or moved there is a quality loss, not to mention if data isn't received. We also use UDP rather than TCP which shaves off a bit more data required for the stream.
What is this 'moving' the stream you're talking about? Why does it mean quality loss? How are you offering different levels of quality without transcoding? How are you getting better quality at the same bit rates using the same codecs?
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On January 26 2016 02:23 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:19 Ansibled wrote:On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then You can watch the VoDs on Youtube. What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare 1080p streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better. Bitrate is only one factor that decides the quality of a stream. Every time the stream is transcoded or moved there is a quality loss, not to mention if data isn't received. We also use UDP rather than TCP which shaves off a bit more data required for the stream. What we mean by true 1080, 60 is that the stream is stable at that quality. There is far less fluctuation in quality and frame rate in our tech compared to traditional streaming tech.
Okay, so less bitrate = less quality. So you say "we have a stable quality because we have a fewer bitrate, thus a worse quality than others"?
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On January 26 2016 02:39 boxerfred wrote:
can you do a tl;dr
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me?
If you want to watch SSL live you can't, it's exclusively on Dingit
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On January 26 2016 02:39 boxerfred wrote:
can you do a tl;dr
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me?
because twitch isn´t disabling adblock. If it would be just another streaming platform, i would be okay with that,
but installing some plugin is just not my cup of tea nowadays. I can still watch the korean stream on youtube i hope, otherwise well to bad, more free time.
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On January 26 2016 02:46 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:23 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 02:19 Ansibled wrote:On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then You can watch the VoDs on Youtube. What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare 1080p streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better. Bitrate is only one factor that decides the quality of a stream. Every time the stream is transcoded or moved there is a quality loss, not to mention if data isn't received. We also use UDP rather than TCP which shaves off a bit more data required for the stream. What we mean by true 1080, 60 is that the stream is stable at that quality. There is far less fluctuation in quality and frame rate in our tech compared to traditional streaming tech. Okay, so less bitrate = less quality. So you say "we have a stable quality because we have a fewer bitrate, thus a worse quality than others"?
As I said, bitrate is only one factor that affects quality. By improving other steps involved in distributing a stream, we can achieve the same quality while using a lower bitrate.
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On January 26 2016 02:47 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:39 boxerfred wrote:
can you do a tl;dr
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me? If you want to watch SSL live you can't, it's exclusively on Dingit
yeh, sorry. Why is a plugin necessary?
On January 26 2016 02:47 IceBerrY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:39 boxerfred wrote:
can you do a tl;dr
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me? because twitch isn´t disabling adblock. If it would be just another streaming platform, i would be okay with that, but installing some plugin is just not my cup of tea nowadays. I can still watch the korean stream on youtube i hope, otherwise well to bad, more free time.
who cares for adblock? should be known to everyone that people do not want to watch advertisements. So they pay (at least I do)
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On January 26 2016 02:49 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:46 boxerfred wrote:On January 26 2016 02:23 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 02:19 Ansibled wrote:On January 26 2016 02:06 showstealer1829 wrote:
So it's remaining exclusively on Dingit then?
Great, guess I only have GSL till Proleague starts then You can watch the VoDs on Youtube. What do you mean by 'true 1080p, 60 fps quality for less bitrate'? Isn't it bitrate that decides the quality of the stream, I'm not sure why this is something I'd want. If I compare 1080p streams on Twitch, the one with higher bitrate looks better. Bitrate is only one factor that decides the quality of a stream. Every time the stream is transcoded or moved there is a quality loss, not to mention if data isn't received. We also use UDP rather than TCP which shaves off a bit more data required for the stream. What we mean by true 1080, 60 is that the stream is stable at that quality. There is far less fluctuation in quality and frame rate in our tech compared to traditional streaming tech. Okay, so less bitrate = less quality. So you say "we have a stable quality because we have a fewer bitrate, thus a worse quality than others"? As I said, bitrate is only one factor that affects quality. By improving other steps involved in distributing a stream, we can achieve the same quality while using a lower bitrate.
Ah cool! Part of the plugin then? Great thing you're answering those questions, I think I'll give dingit a shot before judging.
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i still prefer not installing a plugin
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On January 26 2016 02:46 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 02:30 Ctone23 wrote:On January 26 2016 02:17 Wintex wrote:Additionally, DingIt is a sustainable platform that is already in profit and as a result we are able to fuel more investment in content. why and how otherwise ok. Indeed. How? Madals are you saying that the advertising revenue is making DingIT cash flow positive? http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/streaming-service-dingit-raises-1-5m-in-funding/0148728It's widely reported that DingIT received 1.5 MM in funding last year, so I'm wondering if that funding is still covering basic business items such as G&A? I don't know the viewership numbers across all DingIT streams but it seems like a stretch to say Ad revenue is covering all of your expenses, but I do enjoy being proved wrong. DingIt is already cash flow positive. We actually did a follow up with mcvuk: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dingit-wants-in-on-the-streaming-sector-s-riches/0160696
Interesting. Still no numbers or anything to qualify that, I guess it's DingIT numbers being represented. Will be interested to see how 2016 ends up.
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On January 26 2016 02:39 boxerfred wrote:
also why would I install a plugin if I could just watch twitch without a plugin? can you tell me?
Because UDP!!! The bitrates!!! I wish every website I visited gave me a different plugin to use UDP.
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I don't really have a problem with DingIt or the plugin - although last Thursday the quality on High for the Starleague stream was pretty awful - but I wonder why such a post wasn't made in advance.
And also I'd like to know why the English Azubu stream was removed without prior notice and not brought back last week as promised.
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So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2.
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On January 26 2016 03:23 Elentos wrote:
I don't really have a problem with DingIt or the plugin - although last Thursday the quality on High for the Starleague stream was pretty awful - but I wonder why such a post wasn't made in advance.
From what I've gleaned because he won't address it directly, the multiple qualities are actually being done on the streaming computer, meaning the quality of different qualities is dependent on the streaming computer being able to handle the transcoding of multiple streams and have the bandwidth to upload them all simultaneously.
This means that generally twitch is going to be better at serving lower bitrate streams than dingit I think.
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On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2.
No one except people with access to the source code can do that.
Maybe its safe if you use no social media with a browser who fakes his fingerprint and blocks all cookies and scripts. Also registering under a fake name with a throw away email, while not using any dingit links and never react to an ad. Also not being part in googles adsense thing helps i guess.
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On January 26 2016 03:37 gingerfluffmuff wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. No one except people with access to the source code can do that. Maybe its safe if you use no social media with a browser who fakes his fingerprint and blocks all cookies and scripts. Also registering under a fake name with a throw away email, while not using any dingit links and never react to an ad. Also not being part in googles adsense thing helps i guess.
Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/. And the measures you listed are way too much trouble, I'd rather just watch the Korean stream then.
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Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/
When was the last time you left a review because something just worked? On the main DingIt Chrome extension, there are 806 reviews from 130k users. A lot of the reviews are commenting on the things that are nothing to do with the extension, such as the adblock prevention.
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On January 26 2016 03:45 madals wrote:Show nested quote +Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/ When was the last time you left a review because something just worked? On the main DingIt Chrome extension, there are 806 reviews from 130k users. A lot of the reviews are commenting on the things that are nothing to do with the extension, such as the adblock prevention.
But why are there tons of other extensions with 4 or 5 star reviews on the chrome store?
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On January 26 2016 03:41 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 03:37 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. No one except people with access to the source code can do that. Maybe its safe if you use no social media with a browser who fakes his fingerprint and blocks all cookies and scripts. Also registering under a fake name with a throw away email, while not using any dingit links and never react to an ad. Also not being part in googles adsense thing helps i guess. Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/. And the measures you listed are way too much trouble, I'd rather just watch the Korean stream then.
Yeah, i am with you. In this day and age you can watch almost anything with livestreamer and vlc, no need for even flash.
e: Ads should be integrated into the stream. i see no other way in this day and age when you use the pc for other serious things like onlinebanking and stuff
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On January 26 2016 03:45 madals wrote:Show nested quote +Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/ When was the last time you left a review because something just worked
I do it all the time.
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Um... I'm sorry but what we want to hear is not why the Plugin is necessary but when it will be removed.
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I am puzzled by the negativity being shown here. I've not had a single problem watching dingit streams (something I can't say for twitch streams) and I really appreciated watching the showmatches they funded last year. If they are increasing their commitment to sc2 they deserve a huge round of applause, not criticism from people who haven't even tried their service.
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On January 26 2016 04:00 feanaro wrote:
I am puzzled by the negativity being shown here. I've not had a single problem watching dingit streams (something I can't say for twitch streams) and I really appreciated watching the showmatches they funded last year. If they are increasing their commitment to sc2 they deserve a huge round of applause, not criticism from people who haven't even tried their service.
I appreciate their effort, but i wont use a black box. 2016 called, internet and google is hostile enough (privacy wise).
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The only thing i don't like is how the website is just full of vods. You have links that directs you to vods but it seems like you just wanna put them everywhere for the sake of forcing people to watch the vods. if there is no live feed then leave it blank. Thats just my opinion. Whenever I i look at the LIVE list, theres a few, which is fine cause i get too choose. However theres always a long list of Vods under the section, its very sloppy in my opinion.
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"Plugin/Chrome Extension" = NO NO NO.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2.
Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed'
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On January 26 2016 04:13 CrayonSc2 wrote:
The only thing i don't like is how the website is just full of vods. You have links that directs you to vods but it seems like you just wanna put them everywhere for the sake of forcing people to watch the vods. if there is no live feed then leave it blank. Thats just my opinion. Whenever I i look at the LIVE list, theres a few, which is fine cause i get too choose. However theres always a long list of Vods under the section, its very sloppy in my opinion.
We are in the process of redesigning much of the site. The browsing pages are still using the old beta layout and systems.
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If the plugin/extension would become open source, I would be willing to give it a chance as it can be easily analyzed. Until such time I will not install a plugin, just like I won't disable adblock on 99% of the websites I visit, purely due to the fact that I rather be save from malware.
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On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe
IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself.
I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague.
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On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague.
DingIt doesn't use the P2P system.
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On January 26 2016 04:20 thecrazymunchkin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed'
He has... about a year ago. Everyone keeps ignoring that, since it doesn't fit the witchhunt narrative ^_^
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3w
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On January 26 2016 05:44 dNa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 04:20 thecrazymunchkin wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed' He has... about a year ago. Everyone keeps ignoring that, since it doesn't fit the witchhunt narrative ^_^ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3w
That's because R1CH is talking about the octoshape.exe file that was initially used by DingIT they have since moved on to the browser extension
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On January 26 2016 05:52 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 05:44 dNa wrote:On January 26 2016 04:20 thecrazymunchkin wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed' He has... about a year ago. Everyone keeps ignoring that, since it doesn't fit the witchhunt narrative ^_^ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3w That's because R1CH is talking about the octoshape.exe file that was initially used by DingIT they have since moved on to the browser extension
alright ima use this one instead then:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7ba
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On January 26 2016 05:52 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 05:44 dNa wrote:On January 26 2016 04:20 thecrazymunchkin wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed' He has... about a year ago. Everyone keeps ignoring that, since it doesn't fit the witchhunt narrative ^_^ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3w That's because R1CH is talking about the octoshape.exe file that was initially used by DingIT they have since moved on to the browser extension
I would assume those are the same or at least that R1CH made sure the extension is also fine before featuring DingIt streams.
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On January 26 2016 04:20 thecrazymunchkin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
So the octoshape infiniteHD .exe was really bad since it was running in the background even when you didn't watch a stream and closed your browser. Obviously I uninstalled that, but I'm willing to give the chrome extension a chance, if R1ch gives this post his stamp of approval. Just for the fact that it seems like DingIt really wants to support sc2. Similarly, I'll wait for R1ch / some similarly competent person to analyse what's going on, but it's worth pointing out that almost everyone has flash installed. It's one thing having a problem with dingit specifically, it's another to just use the lazy excuse 'I don't want plugins installed'
Flash is entirely different since you don't have to install a new version of it for every new website you visit. Dingit wants people to install a plugin just for a streaming service that no one likes or cares about and gets a fraction of the views that Twitch does.
TL and Reddit are not where everyone goes to get SC2 content, a lot of people just open up Twitch and watch whatever SC2 stream has the most viewers. By using Dingit, SSL is hiding itself from the eyes of that audience.
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On January 26 2016 05:59 jalstar wrote:
TL and Reddit are not where everyone goes to get SC2 content, a lot of people just open up Twitch and watch whatever SC2 stream has the most viewers. By using Dingit, SSL is hiding itself from the eyes of that audience.
Viewership numbers for the Korean leagues didn't look like they've been getting a lot from that audience anyway. And why would they? It's in the middle of the night for NA and morning/noon for EU, aka when people generally don't just open up Twitch at random.
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On January 26 2016 06:05 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 05:59 jalstar wrote:
TL and Reddit are not where everyone goes to get SC2 content, a lot of people just open up Twitch and watch whatever SC2 stream has the most viewers. By using Dingit, SSL is hiding itself from the eyes of that audience. Viewership numbers for the Korean leagues didn't look like they've been getting a lot from that audience anyway. And why would they? It's in the middle of the night for NA and morning/noon for EU, aka when people generally don't just open up Twitch at random.
Not compared to EU/NA timezone events but still far more than they get on Dingit. And Dingit still claims to be making money despite how much it must have cost to take SSL off Twitch.
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On January 26 2016 06:07 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 06:05 Elentos wrote:On January 26 2016 05:59 jalstar wrote:
TL and Reddit are not where everyone goes to get SC2 content, a lot of people just open up Twitch and watch whatever SC2 stream has the most viewers. By using Dingit, SSL is hiding itself from the eyes of that audience. Viewership numbers for the Korean leagues didn't look like they've been getting a lot from that audience anyway. And why would they? It's in the middle of the night for NA and morning/noon for EU, aka when people generally don't just open up Twitch at random. Not compared to EU/NA timezone events but still far more than they get on Dingit. And Dingit still claims to be making money despite how much it must have cost to take SSL off Twitch.
Viewer numbers for SSL on DingIt have been rising steadily, so it's pretty obvious that part of the lost viewership is people who'd be interested and just don't know about it yet, while the other part is people going crazy over the plugin. The people you mentioned are probably not even a big net loss for SSL itself because they have 3 or so Korean streams that are also drawing in people who refuse to use DingIt and an audience who wouldn't watch the English cast on Twitch anyway.
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So you want us to download a plugin so we can watch ads and you can reduce costs and then pay tournament organizers to make you exclusive.
WOW seems like Dingit got it all figured out.
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On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system.
But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped?
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On January 26 2016 06:30 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system. But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped?
It's not, it's an entirely seperate plugin from the P2P thing. See R1CH's comments regarding DingIt already posted on this page.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3w
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7ba
Plugin is legit and basically just an annoyance. And obviously then everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to get annoyed or rather watch somewhere else 
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Yeah I don't think so.
Also, these reviews lol
raz0rthr0atModified 2015년 12월 2일
I honestly don't know what this plugin is supposed to do. 3 days ago I initially installed the Dingit extension, now it's asking me to install a second extension when the original is already successfully installed. WHY DO I HAVE TO HAVE THIS GARBAGE TO WATCH A GAME. I'm just going to check any/all dingit scores online. Text is better than this trash.
I give this league less than a year before people get sick of using this and just watching everything via. Twitch or other sites that don't play you for a total sucker and make money while your data takes a SERIOUS hit.
Also, dingit. What's with the 30+ fake reviews? If anything actually UNNERVED me about your app, it was the fact you had to pay people (housewives and indian business professionals?) to rate your app 리뷰가 도움이 되셨습니까? 예아니요답글 | 스팸 또는 악용사례로 표시
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On January 26 2016 06:34 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 06:30 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system. But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped? It's not, it's an entirely seperate plugin from the P2P thing. See R1CH's comments regarding DingIt already posted on this page. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3whttps://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7baPlugin is legit and basically just an annoyance.
Where's their p2p plugin? If I go directly to octoshape there aren't different plugins, there's only one.
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On January 26 2016 06:43 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 06:34 Elentos wrote:On January 26 2016 06:30 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system. But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped? It's not, it's an entirely seperate plugin from the P2P thing. See R1CH's comments regarding DingIt already posted on this page. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3whttps://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7baPlugin is legit and basically just an annoyance. Where's their p2p plugin? If I go directly to octoshape there aren't different plugins, there's only one.
Good question. They might have taken it out for being outdated (or the bad reputation), I have no idea.
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I'll stick to watching the VoDs. No one should have to download a plugin (and a potentially vulnerable one) just to watch a stream when all other platforms doesn't have that.
I'm also not too happy that Spotv all of a sudden switch to Dingit without any prior announcement. SSL started on Azubu and then it got switched to dingit. It just felt like a bait and switch.
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On January 26 2016 06:40 Deathstar wrote:Yeah I don't think so. Also, these reviews lol Show nested quote +raz0rthr0atModified 2015년 12월 2일
I honestly don't know what this plugin is supposed to do. 3 days ago I initially installed the Dingit extension, now it's asking me to install a second extension when the original is already successfully installed. WHY DO I HAVE TO HAVE THIS GARBAGE TO WATCH A GAME. I'm just going to check any/all dingit scores online. Text is better than this trash.
I give this league less than a year before people get sick of using this and just watching everything via. Twitch or other sites that don't play you for a total sucker and make money while your data takes a SERIOUS hit.
Also, dingit. What's with the 30+ fake reviews? If anything actually UNNERVED me about your app, it was the fact you had to pay people (housewives and indian business professionals?) to rate your app 리뷰가 도움이 되셨습니까? 예아니요답글 | 스팸 또는 악용사례로 표시
Yeah a lot of the Play Store reviews are fake as well, tons of people from foreign countries calling it a game with great graphics, or non-specifically praising the interface. Almost none of the 5 star reviews look real.
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On January 26 2016 06:46 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 06:43 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 06:34 Elentos wrote:On January 26 2016 06:30 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system. But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped? It's not, it's an entirely seperate plugin from the P2P thing. See R1CH's comments regarding DingIt already posted on this page. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3whttps://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7baPlugin is legit and basically just an annoyance. Where's their p2p plugin? If I go directly to octoshape there aren't different plugins, there's only one. Good question. They might have taken it out for being outdated (or the bad reputation), I have no idea.
Infinite HD is also packaged with the name "octoshape" which is the name they used for p2p. It doesn't make sense to me that you'd take a tainted product name and use it for something new unless it actually kept including the stuff that made everyone mad in the first place.
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dingit gets so much backlash for that little plugin, it really can't be worth it for them to continue to push users to install it. having an optional plugin for those interested makes sense, but there's so many that simply wont get the service a chance...
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Alright then, I guess I'll give DingIt and Starleague a shot.
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On January 26 2016 06:54 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 06:46 Elentos wrote:On January 26 2016 06:43 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 06:34 Elentos wrote:On January 26 2016 06:30 TheWinks wrote:On January 26 2016 05:29 madals wrote:On January 26 2016 05:09 Lorch wrote:On January 26 2016 03:26 Musicus wrote:
octoshape infiniteHD .exe IF this is truly based on octoshape lmfao. I might be mixing things up, but I'm like 99% sure I used to use this to watch MLG live streams back in 08 or 09. Really shitty stuff given that it used p2p so each viewer downloads and uploads the stream at the same time. End result is that your internet is pretty much unusable while watching. Even back then everyone was begging MLG to go back to their old player. Guess history is repeating itself. I don't care much since I only watch live for finals nowadays, but damn I'd never ever want to go back to octoshape, not even for something as awesome as Starleague. DingIt doesn't use the P2P system. But it's built into the plugin right? With no guarantee that one day the switch won't be flipped? It's not, it's an entirely seperate plugin from the P2P thing. See R1CH's comments regarding DingIt already posted on this page. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2ws3lf/qa_about_dingit_the_new_streaming_service_on_the/couep3whttps://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/40wulu/ssl_only_on_dingit_no_twitch_and_azubu/cyyb7baPlugin is legit and basically just an annoyance. Where's their p2p plugin? If I go directly to octoshape there aren't different plugins, there's only one. Good question. They might have taken it out for being outdated (or the bad reputation), I have no idea. Infinite HD is also packaged with the name "octoshape" which is the name they used for p2p. It doesn't make sense to me that you'd take a tainted product name and use it for something new unless it actually kept including the stuff that made everyone mad in the first place.
Well from what I gather Octoshape is the name of the company that developed the plugin, and then Octoshape was bought later on by another company (Akamai). But I dunno, not an expert.
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I don't know if I want to install this when it keeps running in the background. Fix pls
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On January 26 2016 07:12 Penev wrote:
I don't know if I want to install this when it keeps running in the background. Fix pls
The Chrome extension is contained within the browser and closes when the browser does!
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On January 26 2016 07:14 madals wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:12 Penev wrote:
I don't know if I want to install this when it keeps running in the background. Fix pls The Chrome extension is contained within the browser and closes when the browser does!
Thanks for the reply. Is this planned for other browsers too? I rather use Firefox
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I mean OK, you put some effort into this PR talk.
Now let's face the truth : DingIt looks bad even on HD, doesn't have the rewind function (afaik, might be wrong on that one) that should always exist nowadays, installs a plugin that you cannot uninstall easily and that no other streaming platform installs, and blocks AdBlock without caring for the user's wishes.
I'm all for more rivals to challenge Twitch's declining monopoly, but god damn try to at least be better than Twitch !
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My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
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On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
Holy shit, that would be so evil. Seriously Madals please tell us Proealgue will not be on DingIt!
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On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.
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On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
That thought hurts a bit.
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On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.
With Afreeca sponsoring a team ? I doubt that
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On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.
Me too, it's a deal with SpotTV that also broadcasts Proleague. Couldv'e been worse btw apparently, with SpotTV wishing HD behind a paywall
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On January 26 2016 07:33 Philozovic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. With Afreeca sponsoring a team ? I doubt that
Hopefully it's afreeca too, but im sure if they did a deal with Spo for SSL they would have for PL.
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On January 26 2016 07:35 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. Me too, it's a deal with SpotTV that also broadcasts Proleague. Couldv'e been worse btw apparently, with SpotTV wishing HD behind a paywall
I'm not taking DingIt at face value here. They haven't been honest and straight forward in the past and madals isn't doing it now. We are missing some big part of the story in their back door deal that got SSL exclusively on dingit.
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On January 26 2016 07:35 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. Me too, it's a deal with SpotTV that also broadcasts Proleague. Couldv'e been worse btw apparently, with SpotTV wishing HD behind a paywall
The question is whether SPO has the right to determine the platform for Proleague on their own or if KeSPA has a say in it and can force them to show it in Twitch/Azubu/Afreeca. SSL is organised by SPO, Proleague is just broadcasted by them.
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Requiring users to install anything in 2016 is a really, really dumb business plan. There is really not much else to say. Until you understand that, you are going to get ridiculed and no amount of explaining and PR will change that. Even if it is technically better, the general audience is not going to accept it. Surely, you will get viewers, if you have a desirable product, but you will get less than you would get otherwise and the shittalking will never stop until you start being reasonable.
Surely, video streaming is now in a little bit of funky position - everyone hates Flash and Flash definitely needs to be phased out, but HTML5 streaming is not very mature and stable yet. But the solution is to offer both to your best abilities, not to push non-standard 3rd party solution.
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On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
OMG no It took me weeks to relieve anxiety about PL when I finally saw photoshoots and the teaser this week. But you had to come and ruin it all with this single comment ¬¬
Here's hoping and praying it's not DingIt exclusive...
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Surely, video streaming is now in a little bit of funky position - everyone hates Flash and Flash definitely needs to be phased out, but HTML5 streaming is not very mature and stable yet. But the solution is to offer both to your best abilities, not to push non-standard 3rd party solution.
Liveplayer/VLC takes care of twitch streams, that's all i need.
I certainly don't need any other browser plugins other than adblock.
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On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit
If thats the case then just kill me now holy shit
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On January 26 2016 03:45 madals wrote:Show nested quote +Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/ When was the last time you left a review because something just worked? On the main DingIt Chrome extension, there are 806 reviews from 130k users. A lot of the reviews are commenting on the things that are nothing to do with the extension, such as the adblock prevention.
Previously you said you had millions of users? Can you make up your mind?
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On January 26 2016 07:43 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 07:35 Penev wrote:On January 26 2016 07:32 Phredxor wrote:On January 26 2016 07:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
My biggest fear right now is that this sudden PR move is to cushion/prepare us for the announcement that Proleague will also be on Dingit I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. Me too, it's a deal with SpotTV that also broadcasts Proleague. Couldv'e been worse btw apparently, with SpotTV wishing HD behind a paywall I'm not taking DingIt at face value here. They haven't been honest and straight forward in the past and madals isn't doing it now. We are missing some big part of the story in their back door deal that got SSL exclusively on dingit.
There's a lot going on with this, but, in the end, it comes down to a Trust issue: the product DingIt is having users install comes from a development group (which was bought out) that treated it's end-users terribly. "Octo-shit" was aptly named. Not only did it run badly (straight up), it messed up your connection via unadjustable Upload bandwidth and was damn hard to remove from your system. It wasn't directly Malware, but it was Crapware at its finest.
That isn't something you want associated with your company, if you can avoid it. That's the first major issue.
The second follows directly from that issue. The obvious reason for the Plug-in or Extension is to bypass Ad-blocking. It would really surprise me if a plugin was truly necessary to access & interpret the data feed. It's not like UDP connections aren't approaching being around for 40 years here soon. (Back-side tracking is less of a worry. Considering what they posted on their website, they would be liable for civil & criminal penalties if there was beyond what they claim.) Though if it is absolutely necessary, it would explain much of the reason their cost-structure is so low.
Lastly, and this goes for all companies on the Internet, users don't normally hate Ads. We don't. We hate crappy Flash instances, annoying pop-ups, massive distractions, illegal malware and companies that can't bother to play by the "rules" a user sets for their own computer. Most of us run Ad-block practically everywhere because after nearly getting your ears blown out by random Ads, you just don't want to take the risk. We appreciate you want to monetize the traffic & that's the point of being on the Internet for a business. But making us hate having to deal with your company is also really stupid.
You don't seem like a bad guy, Madals, but you're in a tough position here.
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On January 26 2016 08:23 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 03:45 madals wrote:Well reading the reviews on the chrome extension definitely gives me a bad feeling about installing it :/ When was the last time you left a review because something just worked? On the main DingIt Chrome extension, there are 806 reviews from 130k users. A lot of the reviews are commenting on the things that are nothing to do with the extension, such as the adblock prevention. Previously you said you had millions of users? Can you make up your mind?
The vast majority of our users still use the .exe globally. There is also the Octoshape own Chrome Extension.
Out last public release of viewer numbers was stats from November; 13M monthly uniques globally. That number is still growing rapidly. http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dingit-wants-in-on-the-streaming-sector-s-riches/0160696
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I'll be the one going against the flow then. I'm using it, it's working just fine.
People decided that hating on Dingit is the cool new thing on the block, but at the same they also cry that the Korean scene is dying out while refusing to support it because of a small plugin... That's beautiful.
As for all the "we don't want ads so f you", that's what subscriptions are for, removing ads. People are just salty because they got used to bypass Twitch's business model (which is the same) and as such feel entitled to free HD, ads free, plugin-free streams.
A league cost money, all of you ad-block warriors were obviously not buying subscription and thus not making enough money for SSL, which is why they left Twitch for Dingit. I'm quite certain Proleague will also be on Dingit for the same reasons.
TL;DR: Support the scene, the plugin has been deemed harmless by multiple sources (including TL's RICH), install it in a VM if you are paranoid but please, support the dying scene.
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As for all the "we don't want ads so f you", that's what subscriptions are for, removing ads. People are just salty because they got used to bypass Twitch's business model (which is the same) and as such feel entitled to free HD, ads free, plugin-free streams.
So subscribing takes away the need for that plugin? Because according to your logic, it certainly should.
It doesn't.
You also forgot to mention that while R1ch said "it's quite safe", he also said that there's mal-ads coming through.
I don't mind supporting SC2, but if i throw my money at something, the least i'd expect is to be hassled with dumb plugins that don't really appear to do what they're supposed to anyway.
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On January 26 2016 09:13 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +As for all the "we don't want ads so f you", that's what subscriptions are for, removing ads. People are just salty because they got used to bypass Twitch's business model (which is the same) and as such feel entitled to free HD, ads free, plugin-free streams.
So subscribing takes away the need for that plugin? Because according to your logic, it certainly should. It doesn't. You also forgot to mention that while R1ch said "it's quite safe", he also said that there's mal-ads coming through. I don't mind supporting SC2, but if i throw my money at something, the least i'd expect is to be hassled with dumb plugins that don't really appear to do what they're supposed to anyway.
At the things nothing anybody says will change anyone's mind anyways.
You all expect SPOTTV to go back to Twitch if you whine enough. It's like non of you ever signed a contract.
They ain't coming back.
I just hope you guys are not all missing on what may very well be the last sc2 SSL if the support remains that low.
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On January 26 2016 09:28 Growiel wrote:
I just hope you guys are not all missing on what may very well be the last sc2 SSL if the support remains that low.
As long as the vods are posted to youtube, everyone that wants to watch it will watch them. However, insisting that the community should support the poor decisions of companies and tournaments for the sake of "saving ESPORTS" is dumb.
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On January 26 2016 09:28 Growiel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 09:13 m4ini wrote:As for all the "we don't want ads so f you", that's what subscriptions are for, removing ads. People are just salty because they got used to bypass Twitch's business model (which is the same) and as such feel entitled to free HD, ads free, plugin-free streams.
So subscribing takes away the need for that plugin? Because according to your logic, it certainly should. It doesn't. You also forgot to mention that while R1ch said "it's quite safe", he also said that there's mal-ads coming through. I don't mind supporting SC2, but if i throw my money at something, the least i'd expect is to be hassled with dumb plugins that don't really appear to do what they're supposed to anyway. At the things nothing anybody says will change anyone's mind anyways. You all expect SPOTTV to go back to Twitch if you whine enough. It's like non of you ever signed a contract. They ain't coming back. I just hope you guys are not all missing on what may very well be the last sc2 SSL if the support remains that low.
There are very many Viewers who are deactivating Adblock for content they love. Probably most of the people active in this forum are doing that for SC2 on twitch. So stop insulting the supporters of the scene we all love.
Also it would be quite dumb of S2SL to blame viewers for not supporting them via an unknown plugin without informing the community about this step beforehand.
And even if Dingit isn't shady at all and works fine and provides more profit it will still lower the viewernumbers because only passionate fans will read this thread while so called casuals won't ever notice this issue at all. lower viewernumbers will result into less reception which will result into less interest which is neither good for S2SL, nor for the SC2-scene as a whole.
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On January 26 2016 09:28 Growiel wrote:
At the things nothing anybody says will change anyone's mind anyways.
Now that's a bleak outlook. I just formed an opinion about Dingit partly based on the facts I found in this thread.
I think Dingit will quickly go away one way or another. They will have burnt through their venture capital soon enough, and their business model is based on a stupid premise - proprietary video plugins in 2016 - that they knew would be a very tough sell. The heads behind Dingit are probably just going for a high risk high reward approach to get into a quasi-monopolized market quickly. Trying to get into SC2 instead of focusing on bigger, more lucrative games looks very much like a last ditch effort, so I wouldn't be surprised if the upper management was already planning their exit. And the most faithful fighters for the cause like Madals will in the end be the ones left with months of unpaid wages.
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On January 26 2016 10:03 wollhandkrabbe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 09:28 Growiel wrote:
At the things nothing anybody says will change anyone's mind anyways. Now that's a bleak outlook. I just formed an opinion about Dingit partly based on the facts I found in this thread. I think Dingit will quickly go away one way or another. They will have burnt through their venture capital soon enough, and their business model is based on a stupid premise - proprietary video plugins in 2016 - that they knew would be a very tough sell. The heads behind Dingit are probably just going for a high risk high reward approach to get into a quasi-monopolized market quickly. Trying to get into SC2 instead of focusing on bigger, more lucrative games looks very much like a last ditch effort, so I wouldn't be surprised if the upper management was already planning their exit. And the most faithful fighters for the cause like Madals will in the end be the ones left with months of unpaid wages.
While this could be true, it's an even bleaker outlook than mine.
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Frankly like I have said on reddit, plug in is not a 2016 thing, it's annoying and most people just have second thoughts before installing it because of security concerns.
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On January 26 2016 01:59 madals wrote:
Preventing Adblock
As you may be aware, creating content and then providing a stream costs quite a lot of money.. We have developed an adblock prevention system so that we can generate enough money to pay our content creators / players and casters a decent wage and continue to invest in new broadcasts. If users prefer not to have adverts, there is the option to subscribe either to the channel or site wide to remove ads.
Adam “Madals” Simmons - Content Director, DingIt TV
I don't buy this tired excuse to get around AdBlock. I personally will NEVER click on an ad even if it was viewable to me, so why can't I block them? You will never get any click through from me on an ad, ever.
Not to mention ads are at the least annoying and at the worst dangerous. If I see an ad that is in the least bit annoying, I will go out of my way NOT to buy their products. And I find 99% of ads annoying, so any advertising I see is having the exact OPPOSITE effect, and I bet I'm not alone on this.
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On January 26 2016 09:13 m4ini wrote:
he also said that there's mal-ads coming through
More like mad-als.
...sorry.
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I don't have the passion to install a shady extension which blocks another extension. I'll just check the results on liquipedia and if it seems interesting I watch the VODs.
If Proleague is going to use it as well... I guess I'll have a lot of time to spend on others things in 2016.
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On January 26 2016 09:28 Growiel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 09:13 m4ini wrote:As for all the "we don't want ads so f you", that's what subscriptions are for, removing ads. People are just salty because they got used to bypass Twitch's business model (which is the same) and as such feel entitled to free HD, ads free, plugin-free streams.
So subscribing takes away the need for that plugin? Because according to your logic, it certainly should. It doesn't. You also forgot to mention that while R1ch said "it's quite safe", he also said that there's mal-ads coming through. I don't mind supporting SC2, but if i throw my money at something, the least i'd expect is to be hassled with dumb plugins that don't really appear to do what they're supposed to anyway. At the things nothing anybody says will change anyone's mind anyways. You all expect SPOTTV to go back to Twitch if you whine enough. It's like non of you ever signed a contract. They ain't coming back. I just hope you guys are not all missing on what may very well be the last sc2 SSL if the support remains that low.
Low viewership won't jeopardise anything, SPOTTV sold broadcast rights to DingIt knowing foreign viewership would plummet.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 26 2016 08:10 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +Surely, video streaming is now in a little bit of funky position - everyone hates Flash and Flash definitely needs to be phased out, but HTML5 streaming is not very mature and stable yet. But the solution is to offer both to your best abilities, not to push non-standard 3rd party solution.
Liveplayer/VLC takes care of twitch streams, that's all i need. I certainly don't need any other browser plugins other than adblock.
No script has its place!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
I won't install any plugin at work so they could ask me "why do you need plugin for gaming streaming platform?". I won't risk my job for any SC2 more than necessary.
I would be OK if they give HD+ to people with plugin and I would receive 360p or 480p(I watch on low anyway - again, at work  ) The are not doing it, I don't care about their PR, I am not watching it. Maybe I'll watch some VODs, but since I am lurking TL at work I will know the results anyway and there's no point at watching then.
SPOTV choice
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I was subbed 20 something months in a row for SPL on twitch, just all the negative opinions on dingit have turned me off big time. I've been watching SSL on Youtube with Korean casting and if they have SPL i'll do the same. I'd love to support Proleague but based on all i've seen I just don't want to get Dingit.
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My first experiences with Dingit were pretty bad:
- in the beginning impossible to watch on dingit at all until their app became available for iPad
- impossible to watch the start of SSL stream with some weird error message. Only found at 5 minutes before the end of the show that it only works if you change your standard quality :-(
The biggest problem now is the bad quality of the stream.
I am willing to give it a chance, just don't understand why the quality of the image is so bad compared to Twitch, whereas they claim it should be a lot better..... I am not talking about HD, just medium quality on Twitch is already 10 times better than what I had last time on Dingit
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On January 26 2016 01:59 madals wrote:
[...]
Why DingIt uses a different system for streaming to other platforms? There are two main reasons; cost and quality.
[...]
From a quality perspective, a standard TCP video stream was never built to handle live video streams, let alone HD streams. As a result, viewers can often experience large stream delay, buffering and quality loss which is especially noticeable if you are not geographically near infrastructure of the streaming platform.
[...]
provide the following benefits for the viewer; far less buffering, a much reduced stream delay and more stable stream experience which provides the same quality as other platforms, but for a lower bitrate.
[...]
I tried the plugin. My experience is, that Dingit-Streams are buffering all the time: 1 second stream, 2 seconds buffering... There are exceptions but those are very rare.
Streaming in general works fine for me, so there should not be a problem with my computer or internet connection.
All in all: There is some software on my computer which runs (and produces CPU load) even when I do not use it. The stream quality is much worse than with every other streaming service.
Maybe your technical solution is amazing in theory, but in practice it simply does not work for many people.
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It's perfectly possible to consume UDP streams in Flash/Flex. I'm no Flex developer, but a quick search for "flex udp stream" brings up an article from Adobe itself from 2008 about how to do it in Flash 10 [1].
So the only real reason to use a plugin is to avoid Adblock. I'm not saying this is a bad, evil choice, I'd watch ads to support Starcraft (or any other game I'm involved with). I'm saying this is the wrong choice.
Wrong in terms of business, and I'm agreeing with everyone who said this in this thread.
It doesn't matter if technically your product is superior, if it will save the world and cure cancer. If it strongly antagonizes the way people is used to consume similar, established, products, it's just plain wrong. Adoption will be abysmally low and the backlash huge.
EDIT: It's wrong if it's not disruptive enough. If it actually changes the way people interact with the world and is "life changing" then it's perfectly fine to break all set standards. But this is not the case here, the official justification for installing a plugin is a technical benefit. However big that benefit is, it's just technical benefit in the end, it won't change gamers lives.
DingIt is making the choice to raise the barriers to entry by forcing the installation of something that people don't need to install using other products. It's obvious they know about it and are risking going on with it. Unfortunately it goes against the trend of open standards, web 2.0, freedom of choice, yadda yadda and ultimately isn't disruptive enough to force that change upon end-users. (Corporate environments seem to be much more suitable for their product.)
Just to cite a counter example, Discord [2] launched a Teamspeak/Skype-esque product, with better user interface, open standards (WebRTC, HTML5, etc) and is also trying to gain entry to a semi-monopolized market, but the way they are doing it they get very positive feedback and high adoption (all Dota2 streamers are using it already). They improved on what existed, they didn't try to force people to go 5 years in the past.
[1]: http://blogs.adobe.com/collabmethods/2008/12/try_rtmfp_and_clienttoclient_d.html
[2]: http://discordapp.com
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.... Well sucks for the foreigners who want a twitch stream I guess. I'll just keep watching KR with no problems! I will never install a plugin @_@;;
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How is the Android app working? The reviews are not encouraging at all.
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Just to cite a counter example, Discord [2] launched a Teamspeak/Skype-esque product, with better user interface, open standards (WebRTC, HTML5, etc) and is also trying to gain entry to a semi-monopolized market, but the way they are doing it they get very positive feedback and high adoption (all Dota2 streamers are using it already). They improved on what existed, they didn't try to force people to go 5 years in the past. [1]: http://blogs.adobe.com/collabmethods/2008/12/try_rtmfp_and_clienttoclient_d.html[2]: http://discordapp.com
Thanks for that actually, didn't even know about that - only heard DansGaming mention it once. Gonna try on the weekend for The Division.
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On January 26 2016 20:22 m4ini wrote:
The Division.
Is that myth finally coming out ?
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On February 04 2016 18:29 Incognoto wrote:
I can't install it! ):
Watch on YouTube?
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I was on the defensive and when i click the download on the stream it didn't work but after this post i used the link below the TL stream and it's working fine for me!
I can live with it, if it's better for SSL and SC2 overall and super hd free quality? fine by me
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nobody cares about shitit, just gonna watch it on korean azubu
User was temp banned for this post.
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You know there is an HD english stream on youtube every match for SSL
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'Necroing' a 1.5 month old post about something that has been solve since just to bash it serves what purpose exactly?
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EPT
