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Charoisaur
Germany15980 Posts
On January 23 2016 09:19 BronzeKnee wrote: This is one of the greatest SC2 games of all time in my opinion, and with the Widow Mine we wouldn't have seen the greatness of it. you talk like they weren't any good tvz games with WMs | ||
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jasonbourne907
17 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:00 Charoisaur wrote: you talk like they weren't any good tvz games with WMs Well whether X unit can produce good games isn't much the point of discussion, but rather X unit's actual impact on games overall. You can have 10 games that fit inside this bubble where things are fun and cool, but have 100 games all outside the bubble, where things aren't so cool. | ||
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ProtossMasterRace
57 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:05 jasonbourne907 wrote: it is unchanging that adept performance per price is ridiculous in 1tier unit Ah so massing t1 units is a problem now, but the fact that zerglings and marines are viable and extremely effective throughout the entire game is not? Also with this change marines will be able to trade cost efficiently with units that are designed to kill light units. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2650 Posts
Change siege tank damage from 35+15 to 41+15. Change siege tank attack upgrades from 3+2 for each upgrade to 2+3 for each upgrade. Reasoning, with this buff tanks would take 1 shot to kill some P/Z units (1 less shot to kill stalkers, adepts, zealots, roaches, ravagers) and 2 shots less to kill archons. At the same time it would take the same amount of shots to kill bio units (marines and marauder) and the interactions stay the same compared to actual siege tank with same upgrade. Also it would take the same amount of shots to kill an immortal. Once fully upgraded the tank retains somewhat the same strenght also. A small change that its not too strong but goes a long way to help siege tanks and mech, specially early game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15980 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:07 ProtossMasterRace wrote: Ah so massing t1 units is a problem now, but the fact that zerglings and marines are viable and extremely effective throughout the entire game is not? Also with this change marines will be able to trade cost efficiently with units that are designed to kill light units. it's a problem when you need t3 units to counter t1 units. Protoss can just mass adepts and you are forced to turtle to mass libs/mass wm. adepts are supremely cost-effective against all low tier units of terran. Just watch alive vs classic where classic played with an adept monocomposition 10 minutes into the game and won. | ||
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ClaudeSc2
United States73 Posts
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jasonbourne907
17 Posts
they know sc2 than you all!!!!! just listen and do. It is difficult? | ||
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Jonsoload
Germany62 Posts
it's a problem when you need t3 units to counter t1 units. Protoss can just mass adepts and you are forced to turtle to mass libs/mass wm. adepts are supremely cost-effective against all low tier units of terran. Just watch alive vs classic where classic played with an adept monocomposition 10 minutes into the game and won. @Charoisaur Deja-vu!!!! It's almost like you're talkin about the reverse of PvT for the entirety of WoL and HoTS  | ||
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Tosster
Poland299 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:07 ProtossMasterRace wrote: Ah so massing t1 units is a problem now, but the fact that zerglings and marines are viable and extremely effective throughout the entire game is not? Also with this change marines will be able to trade cost efficiently with units that are designed to kill light units. By "trade cost efficiently" you mean that marines will still be raped but not as fast. I see. | ||
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BiiG-Fr
Canada109 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:24 Jonsoload wrote: @Charoisaur Deja-vu!!!! It's almost like you're talkin about the reverse of PvT for the entirety of WoL and HoTS That's total BS, marines are good with stim shield AND medivac in support, adept are good from the beginning to the end. | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:13 Charoisaur wrote: it's a problem when you need t3 units to counter t1 units. Protoss can just mass adepts and you are forced to turtle to mass libs/mass wm. adepts are supremely cost-effective against all low tier units of terran. Just watch alive vs classic where classic played with an adept monocomposition 10 minutes into the game and won. Um... this is like the entirety of the protoss side of life from WoL => HotS Terran spams bio Protoss needs T3 Now it is switched and people cry that there is a problem? | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
- PB nerf is ridiculous. The spell is so badly designed they already are on the path no nerf hammer it until no one can use it. - overcharge nerf : still a terrible designed spell that's nerfed because it's not viable. - don't care much for the spore nerf STILL NOTHING ABOUT - thor AA - liberator AG - retarded disruptor - ravager - tankivac ("in TvT and TvZ"... okay DK you finally clearly stated we're not supposed to build tanks in TvP, thanks.) - thor AA - viper/corru/BL deathball - 8 armor ultra I'm seriously asking myself if DK and his team are lord of the ring's ents. We've litterally seen NO changes for a few months. So much for community feedback. Seed's interview was the wake up call, so blizzard got scared people won't buy the mission packs, so they cut DK's 3 months vacations. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
They are so bloody scared over there i want to scream atthem in the face | ||
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BiiG-Fr
Canada109 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:32 BiiG-Fr wrote: That's total BS, marines are good with stim shield AND medivac in support, adept are good from the beginning to the end. Marines only need the stim/shield/medivac because the opponent's have been fielding blink/charge/speed or more expensive, often very specific anti-marine units against terran. Adept's are good from the beginning because all the starting units are light. The moment you start fielding armored units (roaches, stalkers) they become quite weak. They also require an upgrade to keep up. Terran is just out of luck in that regard because blizzard never fixed the oracle which means you cannot open with marauders, so you have to pretend you lack a brain and build marines despite knowing adepts are coming. | ||
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ProtossMasterRace
57 Posts
On January 23 2016 10:29 Fran_ wrote: By "trade cost efficiently" you mean that marines will still be raped but not as fast. I see. By trade cost efficiently I mean 2 marines will be able to kill an adept almost and 3 will be able to kill one with ease, 1 adept costs 100 minerals 25 gas, so lets say that's ~150 minerals that are 3 marines because gas is more valuable then minerals. So yea at that point mass marine will trade cost efficiently with something that is supposed to hard counter it. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 23 2016 11:04 ProtossMasterRace wrote: By trade cost efficiently I mean 2 marines will be able to kill an adept almost and 3 will be able to kill one with ease, 1 adept costs 100 minerals 25 gas, so lets say that's ~150 minerals that are 3 marines because gas is more valuable then minerals. So yea at that point mass marine will trade cost efficiently with something that is supposed to hard counter it. I don't think that is true. I've played around with a test map with these customized adepts and they still countered marines pretty well as far as I recall. I surely can't tell you about all scenarios (low amounts, high amounts, all upgrade variations), but note that with 1/1 vs 1/1 to 3/3 vs 3/3 there is hardly any change at all, since adepts upgrade with +1(+1 vs light) and thereby reinstate any pre-nerf shot relations unless the terran is ahead in armor upgrades. And even that only works until +2 is done for the protoss. | ||
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redloser
Korea (South)1730 Posts
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