Some liberties in translation have been taken wherever the hell I feel like it
Q: Many of your key players left the team before the start of the 2015 season, and there was a lot talk about SK Telecom becoming a weaker team.
A: Yes, a lot of key players left. Rain, who was our ace, PartinG, and Soulkey didn't re-sign. Even Fantasy, who was the spiritual leader of our team, left as well. Ever since the team was founded, it's probably the first time so many players left at once. Though we definitely took a big hit, I was confident that we wouldn't be affected. I thought that we could make it up through teamwork.
Q: So, skill could be made up through teamwork.
A: You could think that since StarcCraft 2 is a 1v1 game, teamwork doesn't have any meaning. Still, even though it's individual competition, an individual needs an entire team's help in order to win. Whether it's analyzing an opponent, researching strategies, coming up with solutions, or shutting out variables, you need action at a team level. For a single player to play a match, there has to be a team behind him. That's what teamwork means in StarCraft 2.
Q: Still, it seems like the departure of so many skilled players would have had a big impact.
A: I think if you look at the big picture, relying on one or two ace players creates a rift in teamwork. The more you rely on your aces, the bigger their say becomes in matters. An awkward power struggle starts to form between players, and between players and the coaching staff. At the end of 2014, when new contracts were being negotiated, key players said that they would leave. I didn't try too hard to hold on to them. I thought that if we rebuilt and shored up our teamwork, we could get better results.
They say that pros speak through their results. To get good results, you need teamwork, but that doesn't mean good teamwork always leads to good results. Until 2014, our team had good results, but we weren't a team with good teamwork. But in 2015, we were able to succeed at having both good teamwork and good results.
Q: It seems like something that was possible because the company was willing to gamble on your management philosophy.
A: It was probably a big dilemma for SKT. Rain, Soulkey, PartinG, Fantasy: that guarantees you top four, at least. But the company believed in my management strategy. If there was a player I needed, they acquired him for me. They helped me through all means possible, more passionately than any other team.
Q: It's been 2 years since you took up the head coach position in 2014. You've gotten some incredible results.
A: I didn't expect to get such great results like this. I think it's because the players and coaching staff could come together as one.
Q: Your Proleague results were great as well.
A: It was inevitable that we would get good results in Proleague. The entire team moved as one. Instead of relying on one or two aces, we participated in Proleague thinking that every single player was an ace. In that process, we were able to win 13 games in a row in the regular season, go undefeated in round 3, and achieve a "perfect" round by winning in the post-season as well. If only we hadn't lost to Sbenu in Round 4, we could have broken the Proleague record of 23 consecutive wins, so I regret that a bit.
Q: How do you think you were able to achieve such good teamwork?
A: We created an atmosphere where you focused solely on the game. When the coaching staff put forth a new management strategy, the players followed it without questioning it. They put their faith in me, Doctor.K, and MuJuK. We offered our players both the "carrot and whip." Of all the seasons SK Telecom competed in Proleague, 2015 was the year where we offered the most days off. We set goals for each player, and if they reached that goal, we offered them up to 3 days off in a week. We even set practice hours to the minimum possible. However, when goals weren't met, there was an equivalent cost. Because the incentives were so clear, player satisfaction went up as well. Players who received too many "rewards" and rested too long, they came to the practice house of their own volition to keep training. Seeing that, I felt that the team was running itself.
Q: You went on a 13 game win streak, a record in StarCraft 2.
A: Because the players practiced on their own, the coaching were able to focus their attention on other aspects of the team. Doctor.K and MuJuK analyzed our opponents and shared the predicted line-ups with the team. Of the 28 regular season games this season, they were correct outside of 3 or 4 games. Because the coaching staff was able to accurately predict the opponent's line-ups, the players trusted them and followed them, creating a synergy effect.
Q: You must have been disappointed when your winning streak was broken.
A: Our winning streak stopped at 13 when we lost to Sbenu. That day, the Sbenu players played really well. You could see them gritting their teeth, determined to stop our winning streak. I think all teams need to play with that attitude, so the quality of Proleague can improve and attract more fans to watch. We took received a harsh reality check from Sbenu, so we were able to stay alert ahead of the playoffs.
Q: The team achieved amazing results in individual competition as well.
A: Most of our main Proleague players also had experience playing in finals. Classic won the SpoTV Season 2 Starleague, while INnoVation won GSL Season 3. soO won KeSPA Cup Season 2. Dream reached consecutive finals in SpoTV StarLeague season 1 and 2, while Dark reached two consecutive KeSPA Cup finals. It's unfortunate we couldn't win BlizzCon, but I'm satisfied that that our players achieved success in all sorts of tournaments, big and small.
Q: Most other teams only have one or two players who stand out, but SKT had five players who reached the finals of individual tournaments in 2015. Is that the result of teamwork?
A: You could say so. Jin Air had Maru and sOs who won a championship a piece, while CJ saw herO and ByuL face each other in the finals. However, we had five players with finals experience. With the skill level of the team going up as a whole, I think it was a season where we achieved an overall raising of the bar.
Q: SK Telecom had an incredible year, but SC2 as a whole faced a crisis in 2015. What are your thoughts on match-fixing?
A: Something that should never have happened, happened. Whatever the reason behind it, I'm sure you all know who was involved. I think they must be made a harsh example of. KeSPA has banned the involved head coach and players for life, and worked it out in the industry it so they can't do personal streaming. But I think stronger penalties need to be implemented. Honestly, I think they need to be made examples of for everyone to see. Legal measures need to be taken so there are severe financial repercussions for them. The industry has taken a lot of damage due to them, and players who compete fairly have been unfairly defamed. Fans have left. They have to be held responsible in a way that others won't even dare consider it the future.
Q: An old school progamer was involved as a broker in the scandal; you must have something to say about that?
A: The problem is bigger because people who are familiar with esports get involved and approach people in the industry. It's tougher to refuse when someone you've known for a long time comes to you with an offer. Brokers abuse this and work their evil. At heart, their thinking is "we're all in this together, and we're all f***ed together." Their threat is "if you report me, then that means both of us get caught." And to the, esports is just a way to make money. They don't care if esports lives or dies. It makes me bitter to think that people who used to work in esports can think that way.
Q: It seems that conditions for players need to become better to prevent match-fixing. What do you think?
A: When accepting new recruits or new players, I tell them to read our message board. At the entrance to the team house, we've posted a KeSPA notice about the punishment for match-fixing. "Criminal and civil liabilities" as well as "lawsuits from related companies." On the small end, you could be liable for hundreds of millions of Won in damages, and potentially ten figures on the high end. Teams could disband as well.
Simply telling the players the potential cost doesn't help. If they think "live and let die" then they could still cause problems. The best preventative measure is to give players a salary commensurate to their efforts, and for more companies to support teams or players.
Q: From that perspective, the StarCraft 2 industry seems to be shrinking.
A: I think there's a big problem with Blizzard's policy. After the announcement of their plans for 2016, a lot of veteran players – especially those who were competing overseas – announced their retirement. Blizzard's policy regarding StarCraft 2 esports changes too often, too radically, and too unfavorably toward Korean players. When WCS was first formed, Blizzard had no region restrictions. Korean players could compete in North America or Europe, with the idea being that if Korean players could show good games overseas, then the fans would be pleased, and Blizzard was okay with that. Because of that policy, the North America and European pro scene was crippled, and teams only focused on acquiring Korean players. Afterward, the policy eventually changed so Korean players needed citizenship, residency, visas, etc to compete, reducing their opportunities to compete. And going into 2016, the policy has changed so Korean players can't compete in international circuit tournaments.
When Korean players compete abroad, they win almost all of of the time. From Blizzard's perspective, Korean players are bullfrogs destroying the ecosystem [bullfrogs are a major invasive species in Korea]. They're changing the environment in order to catch the bullfrogs, but players end up retiring or leaving the scene. When Blizzard said it was okay for them to compete abroad, they left Korea, leaving teams to disband and shrink. Stopping them from competing in foreign tournaments now, three years later, is just forcing players to retire with no alternative.
Q: Another sad reality.
A: You have to wonder if Blizzard really has any desire to help StarCraft break through its current situation. If you look at their interviews, they say they make games with 'artistic spirit, the heart of a craftsman.' Right now, StarCraft 2 doesn't need any artisanal spirit. It needs Blizzard to act like a proud owner. All the people in the Korean StarCraft 2 esports industry have a spirit of ownership. When they hear other people say "StarCraft 2 is a dead game," they feel more hurt than Blizzard.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more. In this situation, Blizzard Korea employees have no problem going around saying "StarCraft 2 isn't any fun, is it? Play other games." in the company of pro players. I don't think that's right. Players, teams, industry workers are all doing their best to keep StarCraft 2 afloat. Saying that kind of stuff shows you don't have the right attitude. Of course, it they probably meant it as telling players to play HearthStone or Heroes of the Storm. Still, I can't understand it.
Q: What did you feel as a head coach in 2015?
A: I was appointed as head coach in 2014, but at the time I was trying to learn more about the a regular coach's role. However, when Boxer resigned as head coach and left the team, that heavy responsibility fell on my shoulders and I spent the first year trying to adapt. In my second year, I think I realized a lot of things. The biggest realization was that a leader can't do things alone.
I'll try to compare it to cooking. A chef who works in kitchen with the best ingredients, best utensils, best facilities is the happiest. However, that kind of situation is rarely given to you. Sometimes your ingredients aren't good, your knives are blunt, the stoves aren't hot enough, etc. All sorts of bad situations are always coming up. A good leader's abilities are recognized by how they get through those situations. You have the sharpen your knives if they're blunt. If your ingredients are bad, you have to cut out the rotten parts and make the remaining parts taste the best you can.
Running a team is similar to that. You have to bring up the talent and potential of your players and deploy them accordingly. A team can't work with just aces. To be specific, they team can't run together as one, toward the same goal. I think SK Telecom was able to have their best year in 2015 because we brought out 120% of our players' talent. Everyone fulfilled their needed role on the team, and we overachieved.
Q: Is there anything you really want to achieve in 2016?
A: I want to put soO on top of the world. soO reached four consecutive GSL finals in 2013 and 2014, but he couldn't win a championship. He won the 2nd KeSPA Cup in 2015, but that wasn't a proper league tournament. What I want to do, and my personal project, is to put soO on top of the Starleague or GSL.
Q: Is there any particular reason you care about soO so much?
A: When I was appointed as head coach, he was the first player to reach a final. He was a player I was looking closely at even before I went to do my military service, and after he transitioned to StarCraft 2, he reached the finals through a ton of hard work. Unfortunately, he's left us with regrets because he couldn't win a championship. He's the heart and soul of the team ever since Fantasy has left, and I want to help him win a championship trophy in a big tournament.
Q: What's your outlook on the 2016 Proleague season?
A: Instead of looking at other teams, I'm thinking about how we can run our team in order to win consecutive titles. Because all of the players who played so well for us last year remained, I think it's possible, but we won't let our guard down. There's 2~3 players I'm looking at as prospects, and if they can play their supporting roles well, then I think we can win consecutive championships.
wow, this put a new vision to coach oov, I really respect him now. Also I'm happy that he is trying to help soO instead of just buffing INnoVation up (like their Facebook page) I don't particularly like soO, but I know fans really love him so this would make them happy. As much as I like iloveoov and SKT, the two teams that I truly love is KT and JinAir so I feel kind of guilty...
Thanks for the translation. I think of soO and then I think of Fantasy and I think back to the base trade game between soO and Fantasy lol. Former heart of the team destroying the new heart.
oov is in probably the only 'decent' situation in s2 as far as careers go so it's understandable that he takes a moralistic view of matchfixing. but ultimately the legitimate economy is not there to support the scene
This interview is so good. So good. iloveoov and his staff are the kind of people lacking in western teams. Once again it shows the working infrastructure is what need western players to progress.
When you read things like this :
Doctor.K and MuJuK analyzed our opponents and shared the predicted line-ups with the team. Of the 28 regular season games this season, they were correct outside of 3 or 4 games.
It's amazing how good those coaches are at their jobs and it's a shame there is not a possibility to have a big offline team league in Europe/America.
I think there's a big problem with Blizzard's policy. After the announcement of their plans for 2016, a lot of veteran players – especially those who were competing overseas – announced their retirement. Blizzard's policy regarding StarCraft 2 esports changes too often, too radically, and too unfavorably toward Korean players.
You have to wonder if Blizzard really has any desire to help StarCraft break through its current situation.
Truer words were rarely spoken
I want to put soO on top of the world. soO reached four consecutive GSL finals in 2013 and 2014, but he couldn't win a championship. He won the 2nd KeSPA Cup in 2015, but that wasn't a proper league tournament. What I want to do, and my personal project, is to put soO on top of the Starleague or GSL.
Blizzard's policy regarding StarCraft 2 esports changes too often, too radically, and too unfavorably toward Korean players.
I think he's spot on with this part. Radically changing policy every year won't work.
Its not like blizzard had a say in it. Blizzard wanted that the best compete. But fans blamed blizzard for destroying the scene. Blizzard made small attempts to change the rules. It was for everyone clear that the goal was region locking. That shouldnt be a suprise to iloveoov. He is a good coach but he likes to blame blizzard. Blizzard wanted the same system as 2015 but esl rejected. They had no choice than taking the new route. I personally think its the best way because you support streamers (because more time between tournaments). People can take time to watch sc2 if its a weekend tournament. A league which takes several weeks to conclude will only attract people for the finals.
I know its hard for korea. But eu and na cant support korea only. It has to support itself.
It's no surprise that soO is the heart and soul of the team, because he's pretty much one of the last standing "older guard" left (can't forget Afrotoss!). While soO isn't that old himself, compared to everyone else who's pretty much SKT newbies, soO was there for the best SKT times of having Bisu, BeSt and FanTaSy at top form, he's seen the highs and lows.
I'm so glad Doctor.K and MujuK got a mention as well, because they're never mentioned, but they're damned amazing in their own right. They've been there for years, I think even as long as oov has been.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
Can you imagine how much bigger Korean SC (both SC2 and Broodwar) scene would have been all that KeSPA suing fiasco didn't happen, and KeSPA was allowed to smoothly transition into SCII instead of having an half-assed season of half-BW and half SCII. Even if SCII may never reach what BW used to be in its prime, but I believe it would have been much better than what it is now.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
The sospa scene says hi, the current ex pros like bisu making $10,000+ streaming brood war on afreeca in last month says hi, we have national starleague going on that says hi, bw still in top played games in pc bang rankings says hi. I can go on and on but bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play
Well, oov didn't compare the Starcraft games right? I'm sure he would say the same for SC2, so you could call it a cheap shot if anything. He said it's not played by many anymore, which may be wrong or true (I don't know if PC Bang rankings are indicative enough for that; For example, I could imagine many Koreans playing SC2 from home in this age, but you are probably more knowledgeable of the Korean scene in that regard).
Oh and I'm well aware that the BW scene made a nice comeback. I won't deny it's on the rise again. Oov shouldn't have said anything if he doesn't want to say that people start playing BW again (but again, I'm not sure if it's many already).
harsh words in Blizzards direction. If iloveoov as the headcoach of SKT feels in liberty to say something like this:
You have to wonder if Blizzard really has any desire to help StarCraft break through its current situation.
we have to wonder how sour the relationship between KeSpa and Blizzard has become with regards to recent WCS changes. To me, it seems beyond doubt that a respected and important person in the industry like iloveoov would not say something like this, if he didn't speak for the majority of korean industry.
@Wax: were you liberal with the translation here and is it possible that this sounds a little less harsh in the korean original or is oov just super p**** ?
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
don't be suprised here my friend. In past Interviews and statements by Kespa officials, the Rise of Broodwar that has happened in Korea has always been played down. And that makes sense from their PoV as KeSpa (unlike afreeca of even OGN) is very much financially tied to Sc2 and the BW revival hurts their korean Viewership actively.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
don't be suprised here my friend. In past Interviews and statements by Kespa officials, the Rise of Broodwar that has happened in Korea has always been played down. And that makes sense from their PoV as KeSpa (unlike afreeca of even OGN) is very much financially tied to Sc2 and the BW revival hurts their korean Viewership actively.
Oov himself has been like this in past interviews. I expected and got the same attitude here.
Q: Is there anything you really want to achieve in 2016?
A: I want to put soO on top of the world. soO reached four consecutive GSL finals in 2013 and 2014, but he couldn't win a championship. He won the 2nd KeSPA Cup in 2015, but that wasn't a proper league tournament. What I want to do, and my personal project, is to put soO on top of the Starleague or GSL.
I can get behind that, i really hope soO will win a korean tournament this year, he deserves it so much.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
don't be suprised here my friend. In past Interviews and statements by Kespa officials, the Rise of Broodwar that has happened in Korea has always been played down. And that makes sense from their PoV as KeSpa (unlike afreeca of even OGN) is very much financially tied to Sc2 and the BW revival hurts their korean Viewership actively.
@XKCD, its a comment we aren't supposed to bite at. There is a history of certain sc2 figures down playing the BW scene. I understand where they are coming from. Its unfortunate more people can't be supportive of both the way I always have been.
I do not like game-bashing, but let me get this straight; BW scene is barely sustained by very few. Honestly, it is regarded something of the past.
I do love both BW and SC2; I love all those glorious days of Boxer and oov. However, I won`t cover my eyes to blind me from the truth: the whole SC scene is not promising.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
How did you go from "not that many people play BW anymore" (original, factual statement by oov) to "I piss on BW because it's shit and not a single soul on this earth plays it" (what you seem to think he said)? With all due respect to BW - the very fact that there is still a competitive scene so many years after its golden age is definitely a proof of its greatness -, and independently of what should be, I don't think that factually, you can say its active playerbase is high in numbers compared to other eSports, be it RTSs, MOBAs or FPSs.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.
Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.
Yeah I don't get why that set him off. The quoted statement by oov is purely factual.
BW is no longer the top eSports game and, relatively speaking, not that many people play it anymore.
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote: That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.
Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote: That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.
Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.
i have no sources on Television Viewership of sc2 in korea. But we need to factor that in true. Still if you look at amount of feedback bw get's in Korea, i think it is exaggerated by oov to say "very few" or whatever he said exactly :>
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote: Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.
Flash streaming SC2 got more viewers than the most viewed BW streamers. It's not just the game, it's also the players, for the streams at least. And the actual top SC2 players are on KeSPA teams and don't get to stream (or only rarely or only on minor services like Azubu).
But that goes besides the point, oov was saying that not many people play BW anymore (relative to BW's prime where it was #1 eSport). The viewer numbers aren't that important, not everyone watching still plays. And obviously relative to BW's prime the scene today is pretty small.
And all that distracts from the fact that this is a good interview.
Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.
great interview. He danced around the questions about conditions needing to improve though. I guess if your a coach you can't say that it's partially the organizations fault for not taking care of their players.
On January 02 2016 03:17 EatingBomber wrote: Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.
This. Please stop going at it from this point on guys. We do not need this debate to continue. Thanks.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
The end of this comment gets into some super tinfoil hat stuff, I have no idea what it's even getting at here. There's absolutely no evidence he's trying to kill a game because of where he works man.
"Blizzard wanted the same system as 2015 but esl rejected. They had no choice than taking the new route. I personally think its the best way because you support streamers (because more time between tournaments)."
I fail to see how it is ESL's fault for Blizz reducing korean tourneys/seasons strangling the emerging korean scene.
Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something! First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D
On January 02 2016 04:53 riotjune wrote: Koreans vs foreigners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJuNR6kECoY&t=0m26s Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something! First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D
Oov described Blizzards current thinking towarda korean players and the game itself probably in the most accurate way possible. I also love that he wants to get SOo on top of the world, as he described it. Oov really seems like one of the strongest personalities in esports. THUMBS UP!!
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
I don't understand, what he says is absolutely correct. I don't think he's talking about just starcraft or RTS I'm sure he's factoring in all the other games koreans play. I'll use PC Cafe statistics from gametrics.com
now I understand PC cafe usage will probably differ slightly from overall usage but with how small korea is how numerous PC cafes are and the fact that this site takes a very good geographically random sample size (of 12000ish PC cafe's they compile data from 4000) i'll just assume this usage statistic is correct for overall game usage in korea.
with that said, I don't think any sane person would argue 3.55% is many people playing the game. it's not. it's a tiny, niche population of fans. its insane and amazing because of how old the game is and how its still able to maintain users after all these years but what oov says is true. 3.55% is not a lot of people. it's a tiny sliver.
I like how he answered those questions, especially the part about what his goals are going to be. Thats such a typical "last words"-question that the answers, no matter the person, are always similar "going to do my best bla bla". not this guy though. thumbs up!
Q: From that perspective, the StarCraft 2 industry seems to be shrinking.
A: I think there's a big problem with Blizzard's policy. After the announcement of their plans for 2016, a lot of veteran players – especially those who were competing overseas – announced their retirement. Blizzard's policy regarding StarCraft 2 esports changes too often, too radically, and too unfavorably toward Korean players. When WCS was first formed, Blizzard had no region restrictions. Korean players could compete in North America or Europe, with the idea being that if Korean players could show good games overseas, then the fans would be pleased, and Blizzard was okay with that. Because of that policy, the North America and European pro scene was crippled, and teams only focused on acquiring Korean players. Afterward, the policy eventually changed so Korean players needed citizenship, residency, visas, etc to compete, reducing their opportunities to compete. And going into 2016, the policy has changed so Korean players can't compete in international circuit tournaments.
When Korean players compete abroad, they win almost all of of the time. From Blizzard's perspective, Korean players are bullfrogs destroying the ecosystem [bullfrogs are a major invasive species in Korea]. They're changing the environment in order to catch the bullfrogs, but players end up retiring or leaving the scene. When Blizzard said it was okay for them to compete abroad, they left Korea, leaving teams to disband and shrink. Stopping them from competing in foreign tournaments now, three years later, is just forcing players to retire with no alternative.
Simply telling the players the potential cost doesn't help. If they think "live and let die" then they could still cause problems. The best preventative measure is to give players a salary commensurate to their efforts, and for more companies to support teams or players.
When Korean players compete abroad, they win almost all of of the time. From Blizzard's perspective, Korean players are bullfrogs destroying the ecosystem [bullfrogs are a major invasive species in Korea]. They're changing the environment in order to catch the bullfrogs, but players end up retiring or leaving the scene. When Blizzard said it was okay for them to compete abroad, they left Korea, leaving teams to disband and shrink. Stopping them from competing in foreign tournaments now, three years later, is just forcing players to retire with no alternative.
Q: Another sad reality.
A: You have to wonder if Blizzard really has any desire to help StarCraft break through its current situation. If you look at their interviews, they say they make games with 'artistic spirit, the heart of a craftsman.' Right now, StarCraft 2 doesn't need any artisanal spirit. It needs Blizzard to act like a proud owner. All the people in the Korean StarCraft 2 esports industry have a spirit of ownership. When they hear other people say "StarCraft 2 is a dead game," they feel more hurt than Blizzard.
Blizzard needs to listen up! Let the Koreans play foreign tournaments. Also I have to say if they really care about the game's survival and about doing the right and reasonable thing rather than just winning they should #freeparting.
Great interview. Oov is spot on about Blizzard, terrible dramatic changes in policy from year to year and far less passion for their own game compared to the korean scene.
You can't make progress as an esport focusing solely and primarily on Korea. Esports is now a global game. A revival in Korea is meaningless if the game lags in the rest of the world. It needs to keep growing both where the viewers are and where the talent is.
On January 02 2016 13:55 lichter wrote: People who keep bringing up sc2 vs BW are stupid
You can't make progress as an esport focusing solely and primarily on Korea. Esports is now a global game. A revival in Korea is meaningless if the game lags in the rest of the world. It needs to keep growing both where the viewers are and where the talent is.
But Blizzard doesn't have a plan to grow the game around the world. They have a plan to keep chugging along and just hope that fans fall from the sky. And if that's what they're going to do, I would prefer that their money and support goes to the most deserving players and tournaments.
oov's interveiws are always the best. and if I'm blizzard if there's any esports figure I'd want to talk to to get real input on what to do with the scene, he's the guy.
It's already been said, but Koreans are the best players because they already have a developed scene thanks to BW. However, unlike in BW, the SC2 scene in Korea is propped up by Blizzard bucks and they, not the foreign players, are the charity case.
Korea does not deserve its special treatment. Fixating on and dumping cash into a single country won't help SC2; particularly when those players also travel, take prize money from, and kill off the foreign scene. Of course they'll win, and of course they're better. It's because they have team houses, coaches, and all the other things that crossed over from BW that the foreign scene lacks.
Perhaps if there had been region locking from the start the foreign scene could have developed; but having the Korean wrecking ball smashing your growth, killing off the fandom, and preventing players from putting in a serious effort - because they, as amateurs, can't compete with high school age Koreans who are afforded the opportunity to practice SC2 full time, and do have team-houses, and practice partners, and coaches, etc..- put a stop to that. And now you have this "best player deserves the money" circlejerk over Koreans. Might as well throw the money into a blackhole because SC2 has already failed in Korea and there certainly won't be returns on it of any sort, except, perhaps, for further damage to the global scene because of the match fixing. There was a chance for foreign starcraft when there was investment from entities unrelated to Blizzard, and viewers who didn't understand that there was a skill discrepancy between foreigners and Koreans but yeah...
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more
Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement
What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.
bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.
don't be suprised here my friend. In past Interviews and statements by Kespa officials, the Rise of Broodwar that has happened in Korea has always been played down. And that makes sense from their PoV as KeSpa (unlike afreeca of even OGN) is very much financially tied to Sc2 and the BW revival hurts their korean Viewership actively.
@XKCD, its a comment we aren't supposed to bite at. There is a history of certain sc2 figures down playing the BW scene. I understand where they are coming from. Its unfortunate more people can't be supportive of both the way I always have been.
I support the Brood War scene in spirit, and love the StarCraft passion that they bring. But I can't bring myself to watch it or actively support it. I played Brood War, but wasn't aware of the Korean scene or esports in general until SC2. So the nostalgia factor for me isn't nearly as high.
It's like your first Doctor Who experience being new Doctor and then going back to watch the older episodes. Yeah, there's good stuff there but the difference between SC2 and BW for me personally without any of the old Korean esports attachment are too vast. SC2 is just more fun for me to watch.
Regardless I think that BW reviving itself isn't a bad thing. It is StarCraft and I'm sure there are plenty of people that have enough SC passion to watch both, even if it's not just a monopoly like Kespa would want.
Just to comment on how blizz seems to be moving with Starcraft: Blizzard could start funding teams that play sc2. That would go a long way in keeping the scene alive. Guarantees about future tournaments and money would be nice too because stability is a major concern for pros.
On January 02 2016 16:43 zealotstim wrote: Just to comment on how blizz seems to be moving with Starcraft: Blizzard could start funding teams that play sc2. That would go a long way in keeping the scene alive. Guarantees about future tournaments and money would be nice too because stability is a major concern for pros.
I'm not sure why a company whose goal is, like all other companies, to make profit would throw away endless amounts of money in order to artificially create an ESports scene
On January 02 2016 14:59 Inspectop wrote: It's already been said, but Koreans are the best players because they already have a developed scene thanks to BW. However, unlike in BW, the SC2 scene in Korea is propped up by Blizzard bucks and they, not the foreign players, are the charity case.
Korea does not deserve its special treatment. Fixating on and dumping cash into a single country won't help SC2; particularly when those players also travel, take prize money from, and kill off the foreign scene. Of course they'll win, and of course they're better. It's because they have team houses, coaches, and all the other things that crossed over from BW that the foreign scene lacks.
Perhaps if there had been region locking from the start the foreign scene could have developed; but having the Korean wrecking ball smashing your growth, killing off the fandom, and preventing players from putting in a serious effort - because they, as amateurs, can't compete with high school age Koreans who are afforded the opportunity to practice SC2 full time, and do have team-houses, and practice partners, and coaches, etc..- put a stop to that. And now you have this "best player deserves the money" circlejerk over Koreans. Might as well throw the money into a blackhole because SC2 has already failed in Korea and there certainly won't be returns on it of any sort, except, perhaps, for further damage to the global scene because of the match fixing. There was a chance for foreign starcraft when there was investment from entities unrelated to Blizzard, and viewers who didn't understand that there was a skill discrepancy between foreigners and Koreans but yeah...
for two years SC2 was the biggest esport in the west. what did western players and teams do to grow the scene and develop a player base during that time? nothing. they sold their name to monster and razer six times over and hoped for the best. the koreans played the game and put in the money and time. the "developed scene" at the beginning of SC2 in Korea was nothing. there were no kespa teams. there were few fans. you think Prime, Startale, IM, MVP and the rest had the kind of money EG and company had? you could have put all the WoL Korean teams together and they wouldn't have matched EG alone. not their fault that no one in the west bothered trying. now we split up koreans and foreigners, and the result is one whole foreigner at Blizzcon, and he decided that he wouldn't even bother practing for it. that's what Blizzard's investment in the west and protectionist strategy did for the western scene. and you wonder why SC2 fans aren't particularly interested in these players anymore. give me a break.
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more. In this situation, Blizzard Korea employees have no problem going around saying "StarCraft 2 isn't any fun, is it? Play other games." in the company of pro players. I don't think that's right. Players, teams, industry workers are all doing their best to keep StarCraft 2 afloat. Saying that kind of stuff shows you don't have the right attitude. Of course, it they probably meant it as telling players to play HearthStone or Heroes of the Storm. Still, I can't understand it.
Blizzard Korea employees say "StarCraft 2 isn't any fun, is it? Play other games.". This is the part where Korean fans get anger at.
On January 02 2016 13:55 lichter wrote: People who keep bringing up sc2 vs BW are stupid
You can't make progress as an esport focusing solely and primarily on Korea. Esports is now a global game. A revival in Korea is meaningless if the game lags in the rest of the world. It needs to keep growing both where the viewers are and where the talent is.
and that's what's not gonna happen with sc2 anymore i think.
On January 01 2016 22:17 Waxangel wrote: Simply telling the players the potential cost doesn't help. If they think "live and let die" then they could still cause problems.
I think you meant "live and let live". The phrase means to tolerate others' behaviour as long as it doesn't kill anyone - I think you confused it with the Bond film which is a pun on this.
Thanks very much for this translation, great read.
On January 01 2016 22:17 Waxangel wrote: Q: Is there anything you really want to achieve in 2016?
A: I want to put soO on top of the world. soO reached four consecutive GSL finals in 2013 and 2014, but he couldn't win a championship. He won the 2nd KeSPA Cup in 2015, but that wasn't a proper league tournament. What I want to do, and my personal project, is to put soO on top of the Starleague or GSL.
I support the Brood War scene in spirit, and love the StarCraft passion that they bring. But I can't bring myself to watch it or actively support it. I played Brood War, but wasn't aware of the Korean scene or esports in general until SC2. So the nostalgia factor for me isn't nearly as high.
It's like your first Doctor Who experience being new Doctor and then going back to watch the older episodes. Yeah, there's good stuff there but the difference between SC2 and BW for me personally without any of the old Korean esports attachment are too vast. SC2 is just more fun for me to watch.
I too have not watched SC:BW commentaries until after I have played SC2. Back then I just wasnt aware of the huge korean scene. However, I can say with absolute honesty that I very much prefer watching BW over SC2. SC2 seems to be explosions and lasers everywhere like a cheap hollywood movie. BW is positional play, mind games and long drawn out battles like an epic 2000 page novel.
On January 02 2016 23:21 RoomOfMush wrote: I too have not watched SC:BW commentaries until after I have played SC2. Back then I just wasnt aware of the huge korean scene. However, I can say with absolute honesty that I very much prefer watching BW over SC2. SC2 seems to be explosions and lasers everywhere like a cheap hollywood movie. BW is positional play, mind games and long drawn out battles like an epic 2000 page novel.
What a deep analysis of both titles... Can't we just let people enjoy the one or the other without having to come up with ways to insult the other? Or even enjoy both like I'm doing?
Lets be clear oov is a good coach. Its good he takes modern approach. But to blame blizzard anytime he can, proves to me, he isnt objective.
Blizzard had the approach oov wanted first. But the community wanted a change. So they changed. Now blizzard was forced to change again (because esl did not want to produce wcs anymore). How can people blame blizzard for that?
Also i dont understand how you would sacrifice your own region for the korean region. Wouldnt you like to have a region which can compete on same level. You dont lose the highest competition, it still exists and high level because the best players are payed and in teams which have money.
Dont get me wrong. I hate low level games. But thats me. Many people want an idra, huk and snute or a stephano. These are our superstars. If koreans would take the same approach as polt, mc or parting, maybe we wouldnt be at this point. We wouldnt talk about faceless koreans. And maybe koreans would have a better support outside of korea. But polt, mc and parting are the exceptions. Even flash gives generic answers.
Also dont forget. Koreans are already the best payed players in sc2. They have a safe environment and earn more money than foreigners. Many foreigners live of social system and not of team salary.
Blizzard had the approach oov wanted first. But the community wanted a change. So they changed. Now blizzard was forced to change again (because esl did not want to produce wcs anymore). How can people blame blizzard for that?
On January 01 2016 22:17 Waxangel wrote: Some liberties in translation have been taken wherever the hell I feel like it.
another case of "self-excuse", yet quite different to the approach of thouhastmail ^^
I`ll go wrong from now on. Here comes new badass.
I suppose there are always certain liberties in the exact wording for the translator. Especially when a direct translation won't make any sense to the reader. You guys do a great job making it easy to understand. often pointing out the origin of certain expressions or references and giving more insight through t/n's did help me a lot in the past.
On January 02 2016 00:19 Incognoto wrote: oov is right about blizzard. if esports for sc2 is working out at all, it's sure as hell not blizzard's doing
edit: and if foreigners suck, it's because they don't have the work ethic or the team play that koreans do.
I would not say that foreigners suck (they put a lot of a fight), but if koreans are better (no matter the reason as long as its not cheating) then they should win the tournaments.
I am happy I am not making the decisions here thou, I would not like to be blamed for it (but Blizard has been killing SC2 since HOTS, and even if prize money is there, the scene is getting smaller and smaller, so they are either doing this on purpose of are incompetent at it. One way or another, they should not try to manage SC2 E-Sports scene).
I thought it was a new intervew. Started reading. Then i saw the date i realized i already read it. And that, my friends.... is the story of a bump in the new TL design.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.gametrics.com/GameTricsUpFiles/NewsTitleFiles/2015122801.jpg)
