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[Interview] iloveoov on coaching philosophy, the state of…

Forum Index > SC2 General
107 CommentsPost a Reply
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OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
January 01 2016 17:50 GMT
#41
On January 02 2016 01:41 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:36 HolydaKing wrote:
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.


bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.

How did you go from "not that many people play BW anymore" (original, factual statement by oov) to "I piss on BW because it's shit and not a single soul on this earth plays it" (what you seem to think he said)?
With all due respect to BW - the very fact that there is still a competitive scene so many years after its golden age is definitely a proof of its greatness -, and independently of what should be, I don't think that factually, you can say its active playerbase is high in numbers compared to other eSports, be it RTSs, MOBAs or FPSs.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Ingvar
Profile Joined April 2015
Russian Federation421 Posts
January 01 2016 17:52 GMT
#42
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement


Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.
MMA | Life | Classic | Happy | Team Empire | Team Spirit
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
January 01 2016 17:58 GMT
#43
Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.
Broodwar for life!
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
January 01 2016 18:02 GMT
#44
Very interesting interview, thanks for translating!

I hope to see something similar from the KT coaches, going into 2016 without Flash. Should be super interesting to see what they think about it.
Flash | Mvp
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 18:09:46
January 01 2016 18:08 GMT
#45
On January 02 2016 02:52 Ingvar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement


Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.

Yeah I don't get why that set him off. The quoted statement by oov is purely factual.

BW is no longer the top eSports game and, relatively speaking, not that many people play it anymore.
Thouhastmail
Profile Joined March 2015
Korea (North)876 Posts
January 01 2016 18:09 GMT
#46
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.


Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.


"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike"
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
January 01 2016 18:11 GMT
#47
On January 02 2016 03:09 Thouhastmail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.


Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.


i have no sources on Television Viewership of sc2 in korea. But we need to factor that in true. Still if you look at amount of feedback bw get's in Korea, i think it is exaggerated by oov to say "very few" or whatever he said exactly :>
Broodwar for life!
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55553 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 18:18:30
January 01 2016 18:12 GMT
#48
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.

Flash streaming SC2 got more viewers than the most viewed BW streamers. It's not just the game, it's also the players, for the streams at least. And the actual top SC2 players are on KeSPA teams and don't get to stream (or only rarely or only on minor services like Azubu).

But that goes besides the point, oov was saying that not many people play BW anymore (relative to BW's prime where it was #1 eSport). The viewer numbers aren't that important, not everyone watching still plays. And obviously relative to BW's prime the scene today is pretty small.

And all that distracts from the fact that this is a good interview.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
EatingBomber
Profile Joined August 2015
1017 Posts
January 01 2016 18:17 GMT
#49
Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
January 01 2016 18:31 GMT
#50
great interview. He danced around the questions about conditions needing to improve though. I guess if your a coach you can't say that it's partially the organizations fault for not taking care of their players.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Kerence
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1817 Posts
January 01 2016 18:37 GMT
#51
Thanks for taking your time to translate this Waxangel! A really interesting read.
I am here in the shadows.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19262 Posts
January 01 2016 18:43 GMT
#52
On January 02 2016 03:17 EatingBomber wrote:
Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.

This. Please stop going at it from this point on guys. We do not need this debate to continue. Thanks.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
January 01 2016 18:56 GMT
#53
On January 02 2016 01:41 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:36 HolydaKing wrote:
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.


bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.


The end of this comment gets into some super tinfoil hat stuff, I have no idea what it's even getting at here. There's absolutely no evidence he's trying to kill a game because of where he works man.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
January 01 2016 19:14 GMT
#54
Thanks for the translation. Very enjoyable read!

Would like to see more behind the scenes stuff - especially strategic prep, that really brings out the S in RTS.
waiting2Bbanned
Profile Joined November 2015
United States154 Posts
January 01 2016 19:15 GMT
#55
"Blizzard wanted the same system as 2015 but esl rejected. They had no choice than taking the new route. I personally think its the best way because you support streamers (because more time between tournaments)."

I fail to see how it is ESL's fault for Blizz reducing korean tourneys/seasons strangling the emerging korean scene.
"If you are going to break the law, do it with two thousand people.. and Mozart." - Howard Zinn
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3393 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 19:55:20
January 01 2016 19:53 GMT
#56
Koreans vs foreigners


Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something!
First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D
lastride
Profile Joined April 2014
2390 Posts
January 01 2016 19:56 GMT
#57
On January 02 2016 04:53 riotjune wrote:
Koreans vs foreigners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJuNR6kECoY&t=0m26s
Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something!
First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D

wtf man ...
WhaleOFaTALE1
Profile Joined April 2015
47 Posts
January 01 2016 19:58 GMT
#58
RIP bullfrogs
Dungeontay
Profile Joined December 2015
126 Posts
January 01 2016 20:25 GMT
#59
Oov described Blizzards current thinking towarda korean players and the game itself probably in the most accurate way possible. I also love that he wants to get SOo on top of the world, as he described it. Oov really seems like one of the strongest personalities in esports. THUMBS UP!!
Zzz
jinyung2
Profile Joined November 2014
Luxembourg1455 Posts
January 01 2016 20:28 GMT
#60
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

I don't understand, what he says is absolutely correct. I don't think he's talking about just starcraft or RTS I'm sure he's factoring in all the other games koreans play. I'll use PC Cafe statistics from gametrics.com

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler [english] +

1. LoL 39.73%
2. Sudden Attack 12.6%
3. Fifa Online 3 8.6%
4. SCBW 3.55%
5. Lineage 3.17%
6. Dungeon and Fighter 2.91%
7. Blade and Soul 2.15%
8. Aion 1.83%
9. Maplestory 1.82%
10. Warcraft 3 1.59%
11. Tree of Savior 1.55%
12. Cyphers 1.4%
13. Kart Rider 1.27%
14. Diablo 3 1.03%
15. Starcraft 2 1.01%
16. Lineage 0.77%
17. Mabinogi Heroes 0.75%
18. WoW 0.73%
19. Special Forces 0.61%
20. Icarus 0.55%


now I understand PC cafe usage will probably differ slightly from overall usage but with how small korea is how numerous PC cafes are and the fact that this site takes a very good geographically random sample size (of 12000ish PC cafe's they compile data from 4000) i'll just assume this usage statistic is correct for overall game usage in korea.

with that said, I don't think any sane person would argue 3.55% is many people playing the game. it's not. it's a tiny, niche population of fans. its insane and amazing because of how old the game is and how its still able to maintain users after all these years but what oov says is true. 3.55% is not a lot of people. it's a tiny sliver.

sry xkcd but it maybe you in the fantasy world :l
Argentina
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