• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:46
CEST 04:46
KST 11:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy13
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris48Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Autopsy Mainnet Recovery Best Recovery Company Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1110 users

[Interview] iloveoov on coaching philosophy, the state of…

Forum Index > SC2 General
107 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
January 01 2016 17:50 GMT
#41
On January 02 2016 01:41 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:36 HolydaKing wrote:
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.


bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.

How did you go from "not that many people play BW anymore" (original, factual statement by oov) to "I piss on BW because it's shit and not a single soul on this earth plays it" (what you seem to think he said)?
With all due respect to BW - the very fact that there is still a competitive scene so many years after its golden age is definitely a proof of its greatness -, and independently of what should be, I don't think that factually, you can say its active playerbase is high in numbers compared to other eSports, be it RTSs, MOBAs or FPSs.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Ingvar
Profile Joined April 2015
Russian Federation421 Posts
January 01 2016 17:52 GMT
#42
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement


Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.
MMA | Life | Classic | Happy | Team Empire | Team Spirit
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
January 01 2016 17:58 GMT
#43
Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.
Broodwar for life!
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
January 01 2016 18:02 GMT
#44
Very interesting interview, thanks for translating!

I hope to see something similar from the KT coaches, going into 2016 without Flash. Should be super interesting to see what they think about it.
Flash | Mvp
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 18:09:46
January 01 2016 18:08 GMT
#45
On January 02 2016 02:52 Ingvar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement


Dota 2 features two digit million dollar prizes. LoL casually breaks 100.000 viewers on Twitch. CS:GO majors break viewership records. A handful of players plays BW in Korea for peanuts. iloveoov can see the difference between them and BW.

Yeah I don't get why that set him off. The quoted statement by oov is purely factual.

BW is no longer the top eSports game and, relatively speaking, not that many people play it anymore.
Thouhastmail
Profile Joined March 2015
Korea (North)876 Posts
January 01 2016 18:09 GMT
#46
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.


Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.


"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike"
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
January 01 2016 18:11 GMT
#47
On January 02 2016 03:09 Thouhastmail wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers.


Well..no. You`re excluding the fact that SC2 is on telly. There`s little demand for SC2 streaming because you can easily see the best guys playing on telly.


i have no sources on Television Viewership of sc2 in korea. But we need to factor that in true. Still if you look at amount of feedback bw get's in Korea, i think it is exaggerated by oov to say "very few" or whatever he said exactly :>
Broodwar for life!
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55553 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 18:18:30
January 01 2016 18:12 GMT
#48
On January 02 2016 02:58 Cele wrote:
Nada streaming BW get's more viewers than the combined featured sc2 stream List. That is, what he is pointing out. In comparison to Sc2 BW is still a lot more attractive to the majority of korean viewers. We all know the Sc franchise as a whole isn't playing in the same league as Lol CS or Dota anymore.

Flash streaming SC2 got more viewers than the most viewed BW streamers. It's not just the game, it's also the players, for the streams at least. And the actual top SC2 players are on KeSPA teams and don't get to stream (or only rarely or only on minor services like Azubu).

But that goes besides the point, oov was saying that not many people play BW anymore (relative to BW's prime where it was #1 eSport). The viewer numbers aren't that important, not everyone watching still plays. And obviously relative to BW's prime the scene today is pretty small.

And all that distracts from the fact that this is a good interview.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
EatingBomber
Profile Joined August 2015
1017 Posts
January 01 2016 18:17 GMT
#49
Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
January 01 2016 18:31 GMT
#50
great interview. He danced around the questions about conditions needing to improve though. I guess if your a coach you can't say that it's partially the organizations fault for not taking care of their players.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Kerence
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1817 Posts
January 01 2016 18:37 GMT
#51
Thanks for taking your time to translate this Waxangel! A really interesting read.
I am here in the shadows.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19248 Posts
January 01 2016 18:43 GMT
#52
On January 02 2016 03:17 EatingBomber wrote:
Oh dear God, hasn't the SC2 vs. SC:BW horse been whipped raw already? BTW, I really have never understood this ridiculous trench warfare; as someone said, the only thing to defend here is StarCraft.

This. Please stop going at it from this point on guys. We do not need this debate to continue. Thanks.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
January 01 2016 18:56 GMT
#53
On January 02 2016 01:41 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 01:36 HolydaKing wrote:
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

What are you talking about? To my knowledge LoL is the top esports game atm, even in Korea. And if you don't count ONLY Korea, then BW isn't even played by many. Hell, I'm not even sure if many play BW in Korea. More non progamers than SC2, probably (I'd say definitely but I don't have numbers), but that's not a lot.


bw is still the starcraft game Koreans play. There has been huge strides made over the last couple years by the people to re-vitalize the scene through online and offline leagues, fantastic content being put out by various people, the awesome starleagues going on right now, and alongside some of the ex-pros and tournament organizers reaching out to the foreign community. It's been a grass roots movement that I'm quite proud of and I'm just astonished that iloveoov somehow thinks that people aren't active in it for whatever reason. I'm not even trying to state a game flame war, but it is completely disrepectful from iloveoov to disregard the grass roots bw scene that has been well on its way to revival, disrepecting the streamers, the amatuers still trying to make it into the KSLs and SSLs and now NSLs, people playing in pc bangs with their friends, the causals chilling out on UMS maps, the good ol balloon matches and all the awesome online leagues going on. To me, he wants all of that to stop because that is pulling away from SC2's prescene in Korea which is the wrong way to go about it.


The end of this comment gets into some super tinfoil hat stuff, I have no idea what it's even getting at here. There's absolutely no evidence he's trying to kill a game because of where he works man.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
January 01 2016 19:14 GMT
#54
Thanks for the translation. Very enjoyable read!

Would like to see more behind the scenes stuff - especially strategic prep, that really brings out the S in RTS.
waiting2Bbanned
Profile Joined November 2015
United States154 Posts
January 01 2016 19:15 GMT
#55
"Blizzard wanted the same system as 2015 but esl rejected. They had no choice than taking the new route. I personally think its the best way because you support streamers (because more time between tournaments)."

I fail to see how it is ESL's fault for Blizz reducing korean tourneys/seasons strangling the emerging korean scene.
"If you are going to break the law, do it with two thousand people.. and Mozart." - Howard Zinn
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3393 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-01 19:55:20
January 01 2016 19:53 GMT
#56
Koreans vs foreigners


Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something!
First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D
lastride
Profile Joined April 2014
2390 Posts
January 01 2016 19:56 GMT
#57
On January 02 2016 04:53 riotjune wrote:
Koreans vs foreigners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJuNR6kECoY&t=0m26s
Of course Blizzard has to step in and do something!
First they made Koreans jump through extra hoops to deter them, now blizz just axed them altogether completely :D

wtf man ...
WhaleOFaTALE1
Profile Joined April 2015
47 Posts
January 01 2016 19:58 GMT
#58
RIP bullfrogs
Dungeontay
Profile Joined December 2015
126 Posts
January 01 2016 20:25 GMT
#59
Oov described Blizzards current thinking towarda korean players and the game itself probably in the most accurate way possible. I also love that he wants to get SOo on top of the world, as he described it. Oov really seems like one of the strongest personalities in esports. THUMBS UP!!
Zzz
jinyung2
Profile Joined November 2014
Luxembourg1455 Posts
January 01 2016 20:28 GMT
#60
On January 02 2016 01:33 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
Brood War was the top esports game for a time, but it gave up that spot to other games, and not that many people play it any more


Is iloveoov still living in his fantasy world?? You can't be this moronic to make such a statement

I don't understand, what he says is absolutely correct. I don't think he's talking about just starcraft or RTS I'm sure he's factoring in all the other games koreans play. I'll use PC Cafe statistics from gametrics.com

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler [english] +

1. LoL 39.73%
2. Sudden Attack 12.6%
3. Fifa Online 3 8.6%
4. SCBW 3.55%
5. Lineage 3.17%
6. Dungeon and Fighter 2.91%
7. Blade and Soul 2.15%
8. Aion 1.83%
9. Maplestory 1.82%
10. Warcraft 3 1.59%
11. Tree of Savior 1.55%
12. Cyphers 1.4%
13. Kart Rider 1.27%
14. Diablo 3 1.03%
15. Starcraft 2 1.01%
16. Lineage 0.77%
17. Mabinogi Heroes 0.75%
18. WoW 0.73%
19. Special Forces 0.61%
20. Icarus 0.55%


now I understand PC cafe usage will probably differ slightly from overall usage but with how small korea is how numerous PC cafes are and the fact that this site takes a very good geographically random sample size (of 12000ish PC cafe's they compile data from 4000) i'll just assume this usage statistic is correct for overall game usage in korea.

with that said, I don't think any sane person would argue 3.55% is many people playing the game. it's not. it's a tiny, niche population of fans. its insane and amazing because of how old the game is and how its still able to maintain users after all these years but what oov says is true. 3.55% is not a lot of people. it's a tiny sliver.

sry xkcd but it maybe you in the fantasy world :l
Argentina
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 149
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 7046
Artosis 796
Noble 123
sSak 79
Aegong 68
NaDa 32
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever879
NeuroSwarm96
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K108
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0470
Other Games
summit1g10593
shahzam831
WinterStarcraft484
JimRising 433
420jenkins241
FrodaN233
ViBE209
Maynarde162
Mew2King36
ROOTCatZ23
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH250
• OhrlRock 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1131
• Shiphtur132
Upcoming Events
OSC
14m
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
7h 14m
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
14h 14m
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
16h 14m
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 7h
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
1d 11h
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
1d 14h
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 15h
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025: Warsaw LAN
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.