On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
I think MC could beat them all in his prime (maybe except Rain and Zest), hell he 3-0'd CJ herO in MLG Winter championship in 2013 AND HE ALMOST BEAT HERO IN blizzcon 2014, almost!!!!
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
yeah but every player from wol would be inferior to any modern player now
Hence why the competition wasn't legitimate?
All of WoL wasn't legitimate? Lol. Okay then. That's one way to look at things I guess.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
I hate when people go back and trash former champions. Happens all the time, but is particularly vile and disgusting in individual sports like MMA, boxing, tennis, ect... we'll soon be hearing about how Nestea and MVP were terrible players soon too.
MC played the best players of his time and beat them, and the competition back then was incredibly cutthroat. He was very dominant. And he has been to more GSL finals than any of the guys you mentioned. And that says it all, he did better in the time period he was in and if you lived through it, you'd understand how difficult the competition was. The best way to judge who the good players of any era are, see who makes it to the finals of a GSL and wins. The better player at the time wins, by definition of the word better. Parting was struggling to just stay in the GSL while MC was dominating.
And MC did it in an era when Protoss was well below 50% in both non-mirrors. Those other guys you mentioned did well when Protoss was dominant. Check Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
Finally, you have to remember that games evolve. SC2 is different now and in HOTS than it was when MC was winning GSLs. I know that MC would waste any of those guys playing the version of SC2 he played, he had the sickest 4 gate, even if they were in their prime. And he'd hold his own during whatever era they were dominant too, because he has been winning games of SC2 since it came out.
Don't disrespect his legacy. No Protoss has come close to achieving what he has in Korea and around the world.
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
So i guess you didn't watch many games in 2014? You know where Snute who was the best foreigner at that time got famous for the most passive playstyle we had ever seen in sc2?
snute and soulkey were actually two of the most active and unique swarm host users during the height of that era. it was everyone else that played the plodding boring style. snute was better at using swarm hosts than even the best koreans and he played it in a far more mobile, strategic and flexible style than you suggest.
This was a great writeup, I miss Thorzain, even though I only got half a year with him since I started watching SC2 proscene pretty late. I hope his studies are going well! =)
On December 16 2015 16:13 lichter wrote: snute and soulkey were actually two of the most active and unique swarm host users during the height of that era. it was everyone else that played the plodding boring style. snute was better at using swarm hosts than even the best koreans and he played it in a far more mobile, strategic and flexible style than you suggest.
Snute's IEM Toronto run is only forgotten because he lost to Flash 2-3 during Flash's best peak in SC2. Snute has dismantled the top Korean Protosses for most of his career. And it wasn't boring to watch.
Going to sleep and waking up and a Stephano game is still going at the Lonestar tournament. That was boring.
On December 16 2015 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I hate when people go back and trash former champions. Happens all the time, but is particularly vile and disgusting in individual sports like MMA, boxing, tennis, ect... we'll soon be hearing about how Nestea and MVP were terrible players soon too.
People already do that with Nestea unfortunately. I guess Mvp has been spared for now because his record still stands above the rest.
On December 16 2015 14:05 freeshooter wrote: Can't believe no one has mentioned one of the most infamous quotes of all time that originated from this set...
"CHILL GET OUT"
Hahs I totally forgot about that. Was pretty hilarious at the time.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z7Hd5.jpg)
