Almost all of the great rivalries are either foreigner vs Korean or Korean vs Korean. The reason is simple. In general only a handful of foreigners and Koreans ever make it to the top. And even among that elite group, a majority of players only have a limited amount of time at the top from which they can form meaningful rivalries against other top players. There have been a few Foreigner vs Foreigner rivalries such as Idra vs Jinro or Idra vs HuK, but nothing came of it. Jinro peaked early on and was never able to reclaim his form. HuK joining EG killed the rivalry and they never played any meaningful series after the team switch. That is part of what makes this rivalry unique.
Here were two players from Sweden, two of the best SC2 players Sweden had ever produced, but you could not have had more contrasting approaches or personalities. On one side was ThorZaIN, a mild mannered, calm, methodical player whose only interest seemed to be playing the best he could. On the other side was NaNiwa, a player whose attitude swung from affably awkward to intensely silent (and sometimes not so silent) rage, a player who believed the only virtue worth pursuing in life was to be the best SC2 player in the world.
I once wrote the name NaNiwa alone could incite conflict. When he returned after his year's hiatus into professional SC2, he started more rivalries in one day than the foreign scene had seen combined during his absence. But for NaNiwa, the only foreigner that could be called his rival for any length of time was ThorZaIN. And the same could be said of ThorZaIN. ThorZaIN was the type of player who underplayed his own skill and was generally humble, unless it came to NaNiwa. In which case he’d casually tell NaNiwa to stop harassing him and then remind NaNiwa of their head-to-head score (which for most of their career was in ThorZaIN’s favor and is even now 15-15 in map score).
ThorZaIN - 4-3 TSL 3
NaNiwa - 2-1 Blizzard EU Battle.net Invitational
ThorZaIN - 1-0 2012 IPL TAC 2
NaNiwa - 2-0 Red Bull
ThorZaIN - 2-0 WCS 2012 Sweden Nationals
NaNiwa - 4-2 MLG Proleague Invitational
ThorZaIN - 2-0 DH Winter Open
ThorZaIN - 2-1 eSports-SM (group stage)
NaNiwa - 3-1 eSports-SM
When TSL Open 3 was announced at midnight on Dec 31, 2010, the plan was to open up SC2 with a bang and get one of the first major meetings of the Korean and foreign world in an online tournament. It was and still is unique for the scope of the tournament, the format of the qualifiers (still one of the best formats ever run) and for trying to play equally on KR-EU/NA servers (something which later online tournaments would not bother with as Koreans kept winning on bad latency anyway). In a strange twist of fate, it wasn’t the story that people were expecting (which was a Korean dominated finals) or the one they were hoping for (a Korean against a foreigner.) What they instead got were two Swedes. NaNiwa had come off his MLG Dallas win and was looking to become the best EU player. ThorZaIN was a complete unknown who had used his skills and incredible preparation to create one of the great underdog miracle runs of any tournament anywhere. It culminated in a finals where NaNiwa went up 3-1 on ThorZaIN in a Bo7. ThorZaIN then reversed the score and won the first chapter in an ongoing rivalry that has lasted years.
In that TSL 3 Finals, there was a lot of truth that could be found about their approach and their personalities. ThorZaIN was a meticulous player, one who excelled at preparation and excelled when the pressure was on despite often being the weaker player. NaNiwa was an extremely skilled player, someone who could play against anyone and have a chance at winning without preparation. But when it came down to the finals, he’d freeze up, choke, lose focus and start crumbling under the pressure. But both were undeniably skilled SC2 players, which contributed to the fact that both of them couldn’t stand each other. ThorZaIN was forced to respect NaNiwa’s skill despite NaNiwa’s attitude towards him. In NaNiwa’s strive to be the best, he tried to deny ThorZaIN’s skill with all of his might, but no matter what he did he could never decisively defeat ThorZaIN and was more often than not behind in their head to head series.
This only added fuel to the fire as NaNiwa hated being compared to ThorZaIN and he was convinced of his superiority over the other Swede. In terms of results, he was right.
Here are NaNiwa’s achievements from 2011-2013 (the length of the rivalry):
2nd TSL 3
1st MLG Dallas
Top 6 MLG Columbus
Top 8 DH Summer
Top 8 MLG Anaheim
Top 4 Blizzcon
Top 2 MLG Providence
Top 8 IEM Kiev
Top 8 MLG Winter
Top 8 MLG Winter Arena
Top 8 GSL S2 2012
Top 8 GSL S3 2012
Top 8 DH Summer 2012
2nd DH Stockholm 2013
1st MLG Invitational
Now here are ThorZaIN’s:
1st TSL 3
Top 4 NASL
2nd DH Valencia 2011
1st DH Stockholm 2012
Top 8 DH Winter 2012
It cannot be denied that NaNiwa outperformed with many more top placings at more tournaments. The problem however is ThorZaIN’s two victories. For everything that NaNiwa achieved, he could never win. He could never step across that final threshold and take up the trophy himself, except twice. Once at MLG Dallas which was a very weak field (even relative to its time) and the MLG Invitational which was a 4 man tournament (granted he beat both Mvp and Nestea), but was essentially an under-card to the MLG Providence tournament. ThorzaIN won the two most meaningful tournaments of his career. He won the TSL in a miracle run over NaNiwa and he won DH Stockholm cementing a Swedish victory in Sweden. Perhaps that was what irked NaNiwa the most. No matter how many times he tried to deny ThorZaIN’s skill, reality forced him to recognize the fact that ThorZaIN had that missing element that allowed him to win big tournaments, something NaNiwa has never had.
Their story ended during the final decline of ThorZaIN. NaNiwa was in one of his peak levels of skill in 2013 and was still a very strong player. ThorZaIN had only collected mediocre results for all of 2013 and the latter half of 2012. It was with this in mind that NaNiwa planned to kill his rival one last time entering the eSports-SM tournament.
The tournament was for Swedish players only and when NaNiwa entered he told the interviewer: - “I don't want to be compared to 'ThorZaIN', I think I'm much better than him. The only reason I'm playing the Swedish Championships is to beat him.”
ThorZaIN’s response was this: - "The last time we met I won. His best results have exceeded mine. But we're both very up and down when it comes to results. I don't know what he has against me because I haven't done anything to him except like... playing 'Starcraft'. I've never said anything bad about him."
But don't you become upset by hearing that kind of statement? - "...I'm used to it. He's been doing this for a while. I almost think it's just laughable."
Who is Sweden's best player right now? - "It's probably 'NaNiwa'. But if we'd both be in top shape then I'm not sure."
Despite having only 1 good result in the last year, ThorZaIN was still unwilling to admit defeat to NaNiwa. And in that tournament they played two series, one in the group stages and in the finals. ThorZaIN won the group stages 2-1, NaNiwa returned the favor and won the finals 3-1. Yet this is a NaNiwa that would go on to get Top 4 at MLG, top 8 WCS EU, Top 8 WCS S2 Finals. This was a NaNiwa who was in one of his peak performance levels. Whereas this was a ThorZaIN who hadn’t been at that level for nearly an entire calendar year. Yet when it came down to the head to head, ThorZaIN once more elevated his level and gave NaNiwa a real challenge for the entire tournament. It was befitting such a memorable rivalry that they ended things they way they began, with the two fighting each other one last time in a finals to prove who was the real King of the North.
Photo Credits: www.aftonbladet.se , Team Acer, http://www.gosugamers.net/ , DreamHack Art: Jean-LéonGérôme's "The Duel After the Masquerade" Writer: stuchiu Gfx: lichter CSS: Meru Editor: lichter
Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
yeah but every player from wol would be inferior to any modern player now
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
yeah but every player from wol would be inferior to any modern player now
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
yeah but every player from wol would be inferior to any modern player now
Name one competitive game where talent creep doesn't occur. If the competitive scene doesn't die, and if the game isn't wrecked by changes to the game mechanics / game-breaking metas, then the top players in the scene will always improve simply because stuff has been worked out.
It's awful logic to compare a player's gameplay 5 years ago, and to transpose that same gameplay into the modern scene. It would be like if you time travelled 200 years back in time - just because you know things that hadn't been discovered or invented at the time doesn't make you cleverer than people of the time.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
I disagree with your last point. What made MC noteworthy was his ability to recognize the exact dituation he was in, and plan accordingly. Its why he beat DRG when he did, or when he won with 2 base v 5 base. His killer instinct made him top class (but yes he still prob not as mechanically sound as some other toss)
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
I think MC could beat them all in his prime (maybe except Rain and Zest), hell he 3-0'd CJ herO in MLG Winter championship in 2013 AND HE ALMOST BEAT HERO IN blizzcon 2014, almost!!!!
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
yeah but every player from wol would be inferior to any modern player now
Hence why the competition wasn't legitimate?
All of WoL wasn't legitimate? Lol. Okay then. That's one way to look at things I guess.
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
I hate when people go back and trash former champions. Happens all the time, but is particularly vile and disgusting in individual sports like MMA, boxing, tennis, ect... we'll soon be hearing about how Nestea and MVP were terrible players soon too.
MC played the best players of his time and beat them, and the competition back then was incredibly cutthroat. He was very dominant. And he has been to more GSL finals than any of the guys you mentioned. And that says it all, he did better in the time period he was in and if you lived through it, you'd understand how difficult the competition was. The best way to judge who the good players of any era are, see who makes it to the finals of a GSL and wins. The better player at the time wins, by definition of the word better. Parting was struggling to just stay in the GSL while MC was dominating.
And MC did it in an era when Protoss was well below 50% in both non-mirrors. Those other guys you mentioned did well when Protoss was dominant. Check Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
Finally, you have to remember that games evolve. SC2 is different now and in HOTS than it was when MC was winning GSLs. I know that MC would waste any of those guys playing the version of SC2 he played, he had the sickest 4 gate, even if they were in their prime. And he'd hold his own during whatever era they were dominant too, because he has been winning games of SC2 since it came out.
Don't disrespect his legacy. No Protoss has come close to achieving what he has in Korea and around the world.
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
So i guess you didn't watch many games in 2014? You know where Snute who was the best foreigner at that time got famous for the most passive playstyle we had ever seen in sc2?
snute and soulkey were actually two of the most active and unique swarm host users during the height of that era. it was everyone else that played the plodding boring style. snute was better at using swarm hosts than even the best koreans and he played it in a far more mobile, strategic and flexible style than you suggest.
This was a great writeup, I miss Thorzain, even though I only got half a year with him since I started watching SC2 proscene pretty late. I hope his studies are going well! =)
On December 16 2015 16:13 lichter wrote: snute and soulkey were actually two of the most active and unique swarm host users during the height of that era. it was everyone else that played the plodding boring style. snute was better at using swarm hosts than even the best koreans and he played it in a far more mobile, strategic and flexible style than you suggest.
Snute's IEM Toronto run is only forgotten because he lost to Flash 2-3 during Flash's best peak in SC2. Snute has dismantled the top Korean Protosses for most of his career. And it wasn't boring to watch.
Going to sleep and waking up and a Stephano game is still going at the Lonestar tournament. That was boring.
On December 16 2015 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I hate when people go back and trash former champions. Happens all the time, but is particularly vile and disgusting in individual sports like MMA, boxing, tennis, ect... we'll soon be hearing about how Nestea and MVP were terrible players soon too.
People already do that with Nestea unfortunately. I guess Mvp has been spared for now because his record still stands above the rest.
On December 16 2015 14:05 freeshooter wrote: Can't believe no one has mentioned one of the most infamous quotes of all time that originated from this set...
"CHILL GET OUT"
Hahs I totally forgot about that. Was pretty hilarious at the time.
I miss Thorzain and can't stand NaNiWa to the point of owing me a couple of bans on this very website. I don't know what it is about him that makes me cringe. I usually love bad manners and verbally abusive players, but when it comes to him... bah...
As a thorzain fan, i want to list out couple of his achievements that i think is worthy of a mention as well.
2012 WCS Sweden Champion.
Might not seem like much now but back then Sweden was considered the strongest country besides Korea, so its WCS was considered the hardest in Europe. Not to mention, Naniwa was not even in the top 3. ( He was 4th )
Becoming the 1st Foreigner to win in Proleague in ( i think? ) 7 years when he was part of EG-TL. His overall performance in Proleague was nothing spectacular, but it was a longgggg time since any foreigner won in Proleague.
Not to mention it was quite a good game from him against Classic, who was still on Stx and was still playing terran.
For those who are wondering what thorzain is up to recently. He last updated his facebook last year, when i remembered he still took part in some WCS Europe qualifiers in his spare time but most likely he has become way too busy with medical school.
Yes, the last we heard, he was in medical school. Very fitting for the spoon terran. haha
I know Naniwa probably has reached greater heights in terms of skill.
But in mind and heart, the only person worthy of being the TRUE King in the North, will always be...
THORZAIN !!!
* and winning Dreamhack Stockholm was way more significant that the article gave him credit for. Ya sure he won it in his homeland but he also won it by beating Polt !! And that was the last time a foreigner terran won a premier tournament before bunny won another one in two or three years?
I agree that Thorzain is the true king. Naniwa probably had better skill, but Thorzain was champion caliber. It's a little sad we always look back on this and cement the retired player as stronger in such a way that the non-retired player almost can't catch up. It's the same with Life and MVP, people are like when has Life caught up? but since we've earlier acknowledged MVP as the GOAT it seems like Life will never exceed him, even though in my opinion he already has.
I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
Was it a tvp vs MC ?
you have to give a bit more detail than that but if it was the series against MC, then it probably should have been game 5 where he used thors' strike cannon ability to completely annihilate MC's immortal/zealot army.
I believed that game single-handedly caused Blizzard to nerf Thors.
If it was the finals against naniwa, it was probably the sixth game when Thorzain was down 2-3 and Naniwa was preparing a stalker/sentry all in against Thorzain and when everybody thought Naniwa was going to win TSL 3, Thorzain somehow held the all-in and went on to mount his famous comeback.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
Was it a tvp vs MC ?
you have to give a bit more detail than that but if it was the series against MC, then it probably should have been game 5 where he used thors' strike cannon ability to completely annihilate MC's immortal/zealot army.
I believed that game single-handedly caused Blizzard to nerf Thors.
If it was the finals against naniwa, it was probably the sixth game when Thorzain was down 2-3 and Naniwa was preparing a stalker/sentry all in against Thorzain and when everybody thought Naniwa was going to win TSL 3, Thorzain somehow held the all-in and went on to mount his famous comeback.
Thanks for writing about this ! It's true, despite Naniwa being the top foreigner, Thorzain could elevate himself on those occasions, making for a nice n tidy rivalry
Very biased article here. Missing out the MLG global invitational win for Naniwa isn't really on. It was a stacked field where he beat NesTea and Mvp, where Thorzain's big win was against Polt and nobody else notable. Also dismissing his MLG win because the field was weak and then not taking into account his achievements when the field was inpressively strong (like at Providence)
On December 16 2015 12:47 kottbullar wrote: Another angle that could have been mentioned here I think is that Naniwa has never, at any point in time, considered the clear best foreigner (He spent most of his peak under Stephano, and later on Snute/Scarlett challenged him for that spot). IIRC after TSL3, most korean interviews named Thorzain as the clear best foreigner.
Then again, at the time of TSL3, MC was considered a decent player which says everything about the legitimacy of the competition at the time.
MC reached Code S Ro16 as late as 2015 Season 1.
Show me a sane man who has the slightest clue about StarCraft who thinks the suicide toss at his prime would not be vastly inferior to Zest, herO, Rain, PartinG etc in their primes, and I'll happily stand corrected. MC did well for himself result-wise when competition was weak, but he was never at any point a good player.
MC REINVENTED protoss play. His timing attacks were un-matched and shaped all protoss MU's until the release of LotV and the death of the forcefield as the be all end all. At their primes, the players you're talking about had the meta that MC created.
Looking back you can poke holes in anything, I bet you think Fruitdealer's play is cheesy/gimmicky.
yes the epic game was the Ghost control of Thorzain blanket EMP'ing and uusage of Cloak. Back then it wasn't really seen. didn't rewatch, but i think thorzain also did zeppelin micro with the medivacs.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
Oh man this brings back memories. Back then I was a big fan of them both, Thorzain for being the terran hope and inspiration when I was still playing a lot, and Naniwa for his skill and determination. Can't remember who I rooted for when they played though.
I miss Thorzain so much, he was such a tactical genius. I wish he could come back and play, but I don't see that happening unfortunately. I am loving these articles lately.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
Also NaNiwa should have MLG Global Invitational listed. Winning Bo3 against Mvp and Nestea is no small feat.
EDIT: I guess MLG Global Invitaitional is against the narrative. But hey - it's only premier title with top 2 Koreans of 2011. Not to mention Ret, Jinro and White-Ra in eurosegment.
On December 16 2015 23:12 travis wrote: I can't remember which game it was, but there was some game in the TSL that Thorzain played that was a tvp that was just like one of the most epic sc2 games of all time. It was so long ago, I can't even remember what happened. All I remember is that it was really really exciting.
Was it a tvp vs MC ?
Almost certainly g4 Thorzain vs MC on whirlwind
Tal Darim Altar I think the map was called back then. ^^
But yeh, prior to that TvP was considered unbeatable late game, but Thorzain showed what terran could do with lots of Ghost which let him win an engagement where he was behind.
TSL3 was such an awesome tournament. From the qualifiers, wondering who'd run the gauntlet each qualifier to make it, to the points, seeing who'd get enough points to make it that way, to the tournament which was so epic. I remember not knowing much about ThorZaIN when he won his qualifier, and he was considered by most to be such a huge underdog before demolishing fruitdealer, heck he was probably considered an underdog against hapless NonY in round 2 Lol. NaNiwa could win as much as he likes afterwords, but losing this series against ThorZaIN is something he'd probably always remember.
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
Thorzain the king of spoons. Didn't even know that between these two was a special rivalry.
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
Thorzain the king of spoons. Didn't even know that between these two was a special rivalry.
I wonder if we get article about MaNa and Nerchio as well.
On December 16 2015 13:35 forsooth wrote: Thorzain's style was the most aggravating thing in the world to watch. I've never seen a more determinedly passive player.
Thorzain the king of spoons. Didn't even know that between these two was a special rivalry.
I wonder if we get article about MaNa and Nerchio as well.
It isn't as good of a rivalry, Nerchio is ahead by a lot in direct comparism (65-29 in maps, 26-8 in matches). MaNa's vZ was historically always his worst MU, while Nerchio never had really weak ZvP.
ThorZaIN vs Naniwa was always exciting; Nerchio vs MaNa was a lot more one-sided, even when MaNa was the better vP/vT-player at certain times.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/files/images/news/2013/november/10246856666_82650c45e9_c.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z7Hd5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.teamacer.com/media/uploads/2013/10/naniwa_mlg_dallas.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.dreamhack.se/stockholm14/files/2014/07/sthlm01_thorzain.jpg)
