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On May 19 2016 14:24 The Bottle wrote:You just have to be careful not to let your vipers fight. The measly damage they do is not at all worth risking them. I always have them in the same group as my overseers.
The +4 range upgrade helps quite a bit with that, but the thing is, once you get the abduct upgrade, you can stun-lock any enemy air unit and kill it with just the vipers without any risk. Especially battlecruisers, as abduct cancels their yamato casting. Parasitic bomb on any clumped air and abducting the rest takes care of any air wave.
On May 19 2016 16:34 Zedd wrote:Havent done swarm host though, must try it. Does the locust get all the biomass buffs from its father(lol) also?
If you look at the weapon on the swarm host it seems to get the weapon speed boost, though I don't know if the locust gets the health boost.
On May 19 2016 20:21 DrSeRRoD wrote:They don't have friendly splash in co-op, right?
Nothing has friendly splash except for spider mines in co-op.
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On May 20 2016 00:53 Xsyq wrote:
Nothing has friendly splash except for spider mines in co-op.
Not any more, they fixed that a few months ago.
It would be hilarious if corrosive biles did friendly splash. You could be such a troll and erase your ally's army in seconds. I might do it for kicks seconds before the victory.
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You could still troll with force fields or creeping up your ally's base. 
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They removed the no-building-on-creep restriction so you can't troll that way, but sentries might work.
It turns out Locusts do get the biomass health bonus as well as the attack speed bonus, so they're really good to boost.
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On May 20 2016 03:26 Xsyq wrote:
They removed the no-building-on-creep restriction so you can't troll that way, but sentries might work.
It turns out Locusts do get the biomass health bonus as well as the attack speed bonus, so they're really good to boost.
They get the entire flat health boost? That's insane! I thought Abathur wasn't given things like zerglings entirely because the flat HP bonus would be way too OP on small units. But if locusts get that, well, then SHs with biomass will just unleash waves of unstoppable killing machines.
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On May 20 2016 00:53 Xsyq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 16:34 Zedd wrote:Havent done swarm host though, must try it. Does the locust get all the biomass buffs from its father(lol) also? If you look at the weapon on the swarm host it seems to get the weapon speed boost, though I don't know if the locust gets the health boost.
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The locust doesnt seem to get bonuses...checked it several times and always samje hp and attack speed. Not sure if it makes swarm host make the locusts faster, never played zerg so I dont know how fast it should fire(spawn them).
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On May 20 2016 03:36 The Bottle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 03:26 Xsyq wrote:
They removed the no-building-on-creep restriction so you can't troll that way, but sentries might work.
It turns out Locusts do get the biomass health bonus as well as the attack speed bonus, so they're really good to boost. They get the entire flat health boost? That's insane! I thought Abathur wasn't given things like zerglings entirely because the flat HP bonus would be way too OP on small units. But if locusts get that, well, then SHs with biomass will just unleash waves of unstoppable killing machines.
I checked the locusts and they always had 65 health. Even tried checking the ones who came from yellow glowing swarm hosts or ctrl click locust and mass check health on unit card via hover. Am I doing something wrong?
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On May 20 2016 03:57 Zedd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 00:53 Xsyq wrote:On May 19 2016 16:34 Zedd wrote:Havent done swarm host though, must try it. Does the locust get all the biomass buffs from its father(lol) also? If you look at the weapon on the swarm host it seems to get the weapon speed boost, though I don't know if the locust gets the health boost. ¨ The locust doesnt seem to get bonuses...checked it several times and always samje hp and attack speed. Not sure if it makes swarm host make the locusts faster, never played zerg so I dont know how fast it should fire(spawn them).
That seems right. Locusts getting the flat health bonus would be way too OP, IMO. I think the most reasonable way to go about it is to only give the SH the health bonus, and either make him generate locusts faster, or make the locusts themselves shoot faster (not both). But I can't check this until way later today.
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Make sure you're checking the locusts that came from the boosted swarm host. I just saw a locust with 325 hp and double attack speed, so I dunno what to tell you if you're not seeing the boosts. Going to double check real quick.
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Ok, it appears that locusts spawned automatically do not receive biomass boosts, but ones spawned by manually clicking spawn locust do get the boosts. Very strange.
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First new ALBUM for all masteries and one level for each (so you know the amount it grants).
So for Abathur
I do toxic nest expand (21 roach warren, 2 spines asap on expansion on creep from toxic nest, expo as rocks go down). I try to get as many kills with toxic nest because of biomass bonus.
Early I make roaches and queens. I group one roach on 2 and try to get all biomass with him. After the first brutalisk repeat with the second roach.
Droning as much as possible, getting double evo and lair. Once at lair I get spire asap and 3 mutas. Again they go to group 2 and all biomass to them. 3 Leviathans shouldn't ever die and are awesome.
With as many roaches/queens as need I tech to hive/greater spire and get guardians/devouers(if mass air). Taking mutas to collect biomass before morphing them is good. Guardians won't get many otherwise because they stay behind with their 9-12 range.
It's pretty solid style. I have beaten mutation on brutal several times. I haven't tried roach muta/but it seems fun. I usually go for a lot of queens. Maybe too many. I haven't used ravager because they cost gass. Viper are great, but I'm not sure they are worth the micro needed. Probably against mass tanks they would be good. Against air I already make mass queens and devouers.
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On May 19 2016 07:13 Xsyq wrote:I've done this weekly mutation quite a bit as well. Winning is basically a matter of getting enough dps on target and keeping track of those targets. Artanis has a very easy win, going HT/zealot with immortals and/or reavers mixed in as you get the gas. Swann also has an easy win with tank/herc mobility and turrets to catch the zombies. Karax gets absolutely rekt. He simply won't have enough units or structures to hold on.
Uh... Karax is by far the easiest commander to complete this week's mutator with. Fortify the position to the left of where the players spawn, where the two tracks come close together, with siege towers in the middle (they have enough range to hit both both tracks), energizers, and a row of shield batteries and photon cannons next to the tracks on either side of your siege towers.
This plus observers, smart timing of his orbital abilities, and eventually colossus with the ground burning upgrade make even the mutator mode almost soloable.
Make sure to use save up your 3 orbital laser swipes for wiping out the main attack waves, particularly the two attack waves that come from the right side of the map. Don't be afraid to use the giant AOE laser cooldown on trains if your teammate is lacking. Keep a cannon and a shield battery at each of the 3 ramps, adding on an additional cannon and battery every so often as difficulty stages up to protect you and your ally from the random waves of infested that continuously spawn. Once the aberrations start coming, use some of your spammable orbital strikes to take them out before they tear down your ramp defenses. Once you have all your forge upgrades for static D and energy upgrades on the solar core, you can start spending gas on colossus and you're pretty much unstoppable.
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I suppose camping the left would end up better than splitting buildings between top and bottom, but you really need a competent partner to fill in the gaps between your defenses (something that is in short supply for me at least) and a good start without losing too much to infested and enemy attacks. Artanis and Swann simply feel much easier to carry with and are not so reliant on getting a good match-up.
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On May 20 2016 05:52 Xsyq wrote:
I suppose camping the left would end up better than splitting buildings between top and bottom, but you really need a competent partner to fill in the gaps between your defenses (something that is in short supply for me at least) and a good start without losing too much to infested and enemy attacks. Artanis and Swann simply feel much easier to carry with and are not so reliant on getting a good match-up.
On the contrary... your partner is left with so little to do that even sub par partners can build up to a deathball army. The only way they will have issues is if they insist on running ahead of your static defenses to meet the enemies solo. Which I will admit this does happen, and then you lack enough DPS to kill the trains. You can make up for one or two bad trains here and there with dumping solar core energy into barrages, but you can't sustain that if your partner is unwilling to use common sense.
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Well, I think I'm cursed to have partners with no common sense when playing Karax then, since I just got a partner that hadn't expanded by the 15 minute mark. Cannons can't kill the trains alone, especially not when the escorts are mech.
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On May 20 2016 04:46 imJealous wrote:
Uh... Karax is by far the easiest commander to complete this week's mutator with. Fortify the position to the left of where the players spawn, where the two tracks come close together, with siege towers in the middle (they have enough range to hit both both tracks), energizers, and a row of shield batteries and photon cannons next to the tracks on either side of your siege towers.
How soon do you start building in the center? Do you expand first, let the first train go by, or saturate main base and start building ASAP and alternating workers and cannons?
On May 20 2016 05:52 Xsyq wrote:
Artanis and Swann simply feel much easier to carry with and are not so reliant on getting a good match-up.
Are you just massing tanks on Swann and placing Turrets at the base ramps?
If anyone finds these real easy and wouldn't mind running it a few times as a "carry" so I can learn, that would be awesome. I did it on Hard with Abathur fine, but brutal just crushes my soul (0/9 I think so far) so I want to try Karax or Swann to play it a bit over the weekend.
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On May 20 2016 04:34 Xsyq wrote:
Ok, it appears that locusts spawned automatically do not receive biomass boosts, but ones spawned by manually clicking spawn locust do get the boosts. Very strange.
Good job of solving that. Will click manually next time. Very strange behavior indeed.
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Does it take a while for you to queue as Abathur? Because I haven't bought him, I keep getting him as partner. That may be cause I don't play on brutal so the hard diff is filled with people wanting to lvl him up.
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On May 20 2016 04:41 Tuczniak wrote:First new ALBUM for all masteries and one level for each (so you know the amount it grants).
So for Abathur I do toxic nest expand (21 roach warren, 2 spines asap on expansion on creep from toxic nest, expo as rocks go down). I try to get as many kills with toxic nest because of biomass bonus. Early I make roaches and queens. I group one roach on 2 and try to get all biomass with him. After the first brutalisk repeat with the second roach. Droning as much as possible, getting double evo and lair. Once at lair I get spire asap and 3 mutas. Again they go to group 2 and all biomass to them. 3 Leviathans shouldn't ever die and are awesome. With as many roaches/queens as need I tech to hive/greater spire and get guardians/devouers(if mass air). Taking mutas to collect biomass before morphing them is good. Guardians won't get many otherwise because they stay behind with their 9-12 range. It's pretty solid style. I have beaten mutation on brutal several times. I haven't tried roach muta/but it seems fun. I usually go for a lot of queens. Maybe too many. I haven't used ravager because they cost gass. Viper are great, but I'm not sure they are worth the micro needed. Probably against mass tanks they would be good. Against air I already make mass queens and devouers.
Also did the toxic nest expand today, seems to be pretty good start. You have the point with mutalisk and biomass collection, it takes me a lot of time in game to micro guardians to collect biomass. Was having problem on mutation map though. Abathur roaches to mass air still seems to me as best option for abathur. The greater spire units with biomass are so OP it should not be allowed 
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On May 20 2016 07:06 DrSeRRoD wrote:
Are you just massing tanks on Swann and placing Turrets at the base ramps?
If anyone finds these real easy and wouldn't mind running it a few times as a "carry" so I can learn, that would be awesome. I did it on Hard with Abathur fine, but brutal just crushes my soul (0/9 I think so far) so I want to try Karax or Swann to play it a bit over the weekend.
I usually mass as many tanks as I can get away with, making goliaths or thors as needed. Blaster/flame turrets at the intersection of the bottom two tracks usually kill the bonus train by themselves, missile turrets and tanks at the left intersection take care of incoming waves and most trains, and hercules bring your tanks wherever they're needed. A few flame turrets and one blaster turret at entrances take care of all infested.
I'm always up for a few games of co-op with someone who knows what they're doing, my code is Xsyq #1301. I'll be on Friday and probably Saturday afternoon.
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EPT
