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On May 20 2016 07:26 Rizare wrote:
Does it take a while for you to queue as Abathur? Because I haven't bought him, I keep getting him as partner. That may be cause I don't play on brutal so the hard diff is filled with people wanting to lvl him up.
It's pretty quick. I've only taken more than 10 seconds like 2-3 times in the past few days. A lot of people are back playing Co-Op to try out 3.3, even without Abathur, or leveling masteries first for a bit.
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I haven't bought Abathur yet, but I have noticed that I see him the most of all the other Co-op commanders. I think this will change when the hype dies down. But even if it doesn't, I do like having him around as a teammate, because he uses Roaches, and Mutas. I like that army composition. And when the units get extra upgraded, they become just ridiculous.
So far, I've enjoyed playing Vorazun with him, since I can just use my massive CC, and watch as his army rips it apart.
IF YOU'RE PLAYING PROTOSS REMEMBER THAT HIS HEAL CAN REPAIR YOUR STALKERS/MECHANICAL UNITS. I don't know if that makes much sense, but it's kinda nice.
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I don't think abathur is as OP as people claim. He is about as strong as swann imo, maybe a little weaker since he doesn't enable his teammate nearly as much with the extra gas. But he is on the stronger side, up there with swann vorazun and raynor.
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I definitely don't mind having one of those on my team, since his general response to "enemy has stuff that can kill our stuff" is to just heal all our stuff. :D
I agree that he isn't insanely strong, but would argue that he's really nice as a teammate, since the heavy Roach into Muta-Roach stuff is really good against most of the compositions I see, letting me do whatever the hell I want. Although I only play on Hard, so maybe that explains it.
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Abathur can, hands down, get the best unstoppable army, and the most survivable one. I guess his weakness is that he doesn't have that explosive instant-kill damage that other commanders have. If you're paired up with, say, an ambitious Swann that knows how to use herc-tanks and his laser drill, you won't rack up nearly the kills he does (unless your enemy is air). Nor would you with someone who knows how to abuse Vorazun to the max. But in the face of those gigantic death fleets that seem to come out of nowhere and obliterate armies, Abathur is the best guy to have against them. (Or mass Zagara bile launchers, if it's a defensive mission.)
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Its fairly easy to get to the point where you have 200/200 and 6000 minerals 3000 gas at the end of the mission - just because you lose so few units as abathur.
The most broken thing on him is definitely the Viper. Its ability to cast a movement slowing blinding cloud that affects hybrid, as well as abduct any large threats like BCs and stun them for 10 seconds, As well as infinite mana AND parasitic bomb.
Brutalisks and Leviathans beeing free is just a bonus, that he wouldnt even need.
Finally he can make a some of everything army better than anyone. Some roaches, some ravagers, Queens, Swarm hosts, Viper, Air - all add greatly to his DPS because of their varying Ranges. You engage, and all your units can fire.
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Both abathur and swann can get to the point of having invincible armies. Abby as you guys mentioned, Swann gets a mass of 2 supply (2!, not 3 as in campaigns) goliaths with 8/11 range that shoots air and ground at the same time with teleporting maelstrom tanks and SV matrixing as needed. The main differences I believe are that swann can survive just as well defensively with the tanks and strong, versatile turrets, empowering allies with extra gas, and a drill that possess powerful aoe clearing abilities on top of consistent, underestimated dps.
The main point here is really to address those who say abathur is p2w power creep, swann is just as strong if not stronger. So far its all good.
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I've had a lot of the the same thoughts. When switching back to Abathur from other commanders his lack of a big "Oh shit" nuke to take care of things is very apparent, but only in the early game. Later you've got deep tunneling Brutalisks/Swarm Hosts and Mutalisks/Leviathans to stamp out any troubles across the map very easily. And once you hit critical biomass your units just stop dying. Biotic Leech means you don't even need Mend anymore.
It's hard to compare to Swann or Vorazun's burst damage, but Abathur just doesn't care about any damage, he'll just absorb it and then kill you anyway. And then get stronger by eating your corpse.
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Has this become sort of the "Co-op General Discussion thread?" :p
I still haven't managed to beat the Mutation Mission Brutal. Feels bad, I usually don't have any problems with it. Any tips for this? I've got 15 on every commander (except Abathur), and I'd just like to beat it at least once on Brutal this week.
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Same here Rehio. I've read a lot of strategies, and pretty much almost every combination can work for good players, but since I am weaker with micro and macro, I will be gravitating towards Karax static D or Swann Turrets and Tanks. I was able to crush it easily on Hard with Abathur, but Brutal has smashed me about 8-9 times now.
As an achievement hunter, the thought of grinding 150 Brutal mutations makes my cry on the inside, but eventually, one has to be easier than the others and that's the one I will grind over a weekend for at least 100 games. I think the lack of vision is what kills me the most in this current one after not having played co-op since Karax was released, I don't know the exact timings of the trains and waves. Maybe Lock and Load will be easier since you have vision and enemies moving faster won't be too bad if you can defend the locks. I worry that those dang mines will respawn, so sacrificing a unit to clear them out may not be enough.
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I've seen a lot of Zagara hate here, and I can't understand it for the life of me. She's TERRIBLE at low levels, but has powerspikes at Swarmlings + free banelings. At level 15, I think she's easily one of the strongest commanders--only Vorazun can compare. The trick is to not make any aberrations (they're too expensive, you want to be able to max and remax and remax) and to actually use Zagara's abilities. The speed buff is INCREDIBLE, and you'll have either it or roach drop every ~90 seconds.
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On May 20 2016 13:11 Icysoul wrote:
Both abathur and swann can get to the point of having invincible armies. Abby as you guys mentioned, Swann gets a mass of 2 supply (2!, not 3 as in campaigns) goliaths with 8/11 range that shoots air and ground at the same time with teleporting maelstrom tanks and SV matrixing as needed. The main differences I believe are that swann can survive just as well defensively with the tanks and strong, versatile turrets, empowering allies with extra gas, and a drill that possess powerful aoe clearing abilities on top of consistent, underestimated dps.
The main point here is really to address those who say abathur is p2w power creep, swann is just as strong if not stronger. So far its all good.
My Swann "style" is just pure Goliaths, and tends to work really well, but definitely has a weak early-game. Does Abby have the same sort of issues early?
On May 20 2016 21:28 APurpleCow wrote:
I've seen a lot of Zagara hate here, and I can't understand it for the life of me. She's TERRIBLE at low levels, but has powerspikes at Swarmlings + free banelings. At level 15, I think she's easily one of the strongest commanders--only Vorazun can compare. The trick is to not make any aberrations (they're too expensive, you want to be able to max and remax and remax) and to actually use Zagara's abilities. The speed buff is INCREDIBLE, and you'll have either it or roach drop every ~90 seconds.
I definitely agree, I'm a level 1 Zagara, and lose a lot of games. A friend's level 15, and just trashes everything. I think there's definitely a difference in player mentality though, where I try to build up the army, and he just builds a lot of things, and then sends them to die so he can replace them.
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My Swann "style" is just pure Goliaths, and tends to work really well, but definitely has a weak early-game. Does Abby have the same sort of issues early?
Blehhh, I hate when Swanns do this...Mass thor is much better than mass goliath (unless against pure air), and if you don't have at least some tanks then you're not utilizing Swann to his full potential.
Abathur's early game is alright, but not too strong. It really, really helps to farm Brutalisks instead of distributing biomass equally.
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I'm gonna see what happens when I mix some tanks in there, if that's the case.
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On May 20 2016 21:28 APurpleCow wrote:
I've seen a lot of Zagara hate here, and I can't understand it for the life of me. She's TERRIBLE at low levels, but has powerspikes at Swarmlings + free banelings. At level 15, I think she's easily one of the strongest commanders--only Vorazun can compare. The trick is to not make any aberrations (they're too expensive, you want to be able to max and remax and remax) and to actually use Zagara's abilities. The speed buff is INCREDIBLE, and you'll have either it or roach drop every ~90 seconds.
I agree. I've seen Zagara as a love/hate hero. She was the first one I played, and the first I leveled to 15. The biggest mistake I see people make with her is going mass aberrations/corruptors. If that's how you'll play her, then of course she'd be under-powered, because you're basically making regular units with a 100 supply cap. Her power comes from lings, banelings, and scourge (especially banelings). I never make aberrations, and the only time I ever make corruptors are against the viper composition (because one parasitic bomb erases all your scourge in less than a second). Bane scourge are insane, and obviously underrated, from the way I see Zagara people play.
Zagara's most underrated tool, though, is bile launchers. On the temple mission, I always make 30+ bile launchers, and stay on top of them. I even get 2 pools so that I can get the bile launcher and ling upgrades quickly. They are godlike. I have used them to completely kill end-game waves on their own, including waves like terran air (BCs, vikings, banshees, ravens, cyclones). You just have to be on top of them.
On May 20 2016 21:38 IntoTheheart wrote:
My Swann "style" is just pure Goliaths, and tends to work really well, but definitely has a weak early-game. Does Abby have the same sort of issues early?
I think the point of the masteries is to force you to change your style. If you haven't been using herc-tanks already (in which case, holy shit man you've been missing out!) then you should definitely try it for this mastery. Also, you should put more of an emphasis on turrets than you normally would, since the undead creepers keep coming, and you need a permanent solution for them. I definitely had to adjust my style to go more turret-focused early on in the trains.
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Luckily for me, I have been pretty fortunate and did this week's mutation (only on Hard though). Maybe I should be less of a baby and try Brutal? I'm level 15 Swann but have weird lag/computer issues that make playing SC2 kinda difficult.
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On May 20 2016 06:36 Xsyq wrote:
Well, I think I'm cursed to have partners with no common sense when playing Karax then, since I just got a partner that hadn't expanded by the 15 minute mark. Cannons can't kill the trains alone, especially not when the escorts are mech.
Yeah, that is the thing that keeps it from being soloable as Karax, its not that you don't have enough DPS for the trains, its just that you cannot move with the train as it goes across the map, so you need your partner's help there. You can solo trains if you dump the spammable orbital barrage, but you really need that energy for bursting down the bigger waves of enemies.
On May 20 2016 07:06 DrSeRRoD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 04:46 imJealous wrote:
Uh... Karax is by far the easiest commander to complete this week's mutator with. Fortify the position to the left of where the players spawn, where the two tracks come close together, with siege towers in the middle (they have enough range to hit both both tracks), energizers, and a row of shield batteries and photon cannons next to the tracks on either side of your siege towers. How soon do you start building in the center? Do you expand first, let the first train go by, or saturate main base and start building ASAP and alternating workers and cannons?
I cannon expand, and build a few cannons/batteries between the main and the expansion for the first train. Use a few barrages to help finish off the train or the attack that comes from the bottom if needed. Then start building in the area to the left when its time for the second train. Build up the bottom side first, warp in one energizer to boost your kaydarin monoliths, and burn your big orbital cooldown (the giant laser beam that you can control) to help burn down the train and wipe out its defenders. And don't forget you want to have the +2 range and +25% attack speed upgrades for static defenses on the forge by this point... this plus energizers makes your monoliths have ridiculous range and damage output.
Make sure to save enough energy to use the 3 orbital laser swipes to wipe out the big attack wave that comes from the lower right side after the second train. Then immediately start building up your batteries/cannons next to the top track above your kaydarin monoliths. Don't forget to keep upgrading your solar core and getting the required tech structures to unlock the solar core energy upgrades.
You will have to continuously rebuild batteries and cannons throughout the game, and carefully manage your energy for orbital stike abilities but you will be able to hold the vast majority of the attacking units yourself for the rest of the map.
On May 20 2016 07:57 Xsyq wrote:
I'm always up for a few games of co-op with someone who knows what they're doing, my code is Xsyq #1301. I'll be on Friday and probably Saturday afternoon.
Sent you a request
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On May 20 2016 07:06 DrSeRRoD wrote:
If anyone finds these real easy and wouldn't mind running it a few times as a "carry" so I can learn, that would be awesome. I did it on Hard with Abathur fine, but brutal just crushes my soul (0/9 I think so far) so I want to try Karax or Swann to play it a bit over the weekend.
I can try to carry you through it with Karax if you want to send me a PM with your ID
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On May 20 2016 23:46 imJealous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 07:06 DrSeRRoD wrote:
If anyone finds these real easy and wouldn't mind running it a few times as a "carry" so I can learn, that would be awesome. I did it on Hard with Abathur fine, but brutal just crushes my soul (0/9 I think so far) so I want to try Karax or Swann to play it a bit over the weekend. I can try to carry you through it with Karax if you want to send me a PM with your ID
Done, thanks!
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I've been doing the brutal mutation with Swann and Kerrigan, I haven't really tried anyone else.
I'll give some tips on doing it with Kerrigan, though keep in mind that a lot of these tips should be used for Kerrigan in general.
One thing I don't see very often at all with Kerrigan players is having queens in your army. Lots of queens, like 10+. The way to do this is whenever you inject, shift+add that inject queen to your army, and build a new queen on the hatch for your next inject. It makes your inject cycles a little slower, but with 3 hatches you should be fine. There are so many benefits to having queens in your army. It makes spreading creep all over the map much easier, which is something I think is absolutely necessary. The extra regen and 30% attack speed is just too good to pass up. They're also amazing for rapid transfusing Kerrigan, so she can tank a ton. It's like transfusing ultras on ladder, but on crack. And they're gas-free anti air. Spreading creep also helps particularly in this mutation, for that vision.
Of course, the reason Kerrigan is so amazing on this particular mutation is because of lurkers. If you have a bunch of lurkers at both tracks, near the entrance of your bases, you should have no issue with undead crawlers. I try to have 12+ lurkers at each track by the mid point, constantly adding more as we go, and at the key locations, though I move them when I need. When you have a really high count, you can keep a couple at the ramps for good last second defense, and reposition your two bulk lurker armies to key locations when you need. For the last train you can just move all your lurkers to the entrance from where the train emerges. In general, my army comp for this mutation is queens, lings, hydras, and lurkers. Not too many hydras, since the queens and kerrigan cover anti-air nicely. So keep that lurker count high.
Of course, as others have emphasized, you should be soloing the first bunch of waves with Kerrigan. I like to have her in group 1 with my army, and then in group 4 separately. That way you can solo with her easily, and also march with your army easily. For the first few trains she should go ahead of your army to clear out the units, and your army should just focus on the trains. You should really be on top of assimilation aura for this mission. The enemy composition is great for that. Zealots give gas, colossi drop (I think) 100 gas... you get a ton of gas! If you're really on top of your assimilation aura for this mutation, you should have all the gas you need for those huge lurker counts.
To reiterate: Queens in army creep spreading, lots of lurkers at both tracks, solo kerrigan first few waves, lots of assimilation aura. It may be a bit hard to keep all that up, but it's really fun as well, and incredibly effective.
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EPT
