EPTDK focuses mostly on feedback about their proposed ladder changes. Overall I like the general direction they're going by fine tuning the leagues.
Community Feedback Update - Nov 13
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
DK focuses mostly on feedback about their proposed ladder changes. Overall I like the general direction they're going by fine tuning the leagues.
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
I came away from watching the MP panel thinking that GM and Masters would really just be one continuos stream of people. I didn't think up at that level there would be divisions it would simply be one big ladder with people jockeying for position. This was the most exciting change for me. It almost sounds like this is not the plan from reading the blog post. I know the initial idea behind the league and divisions when it was originally introduced was players would be overwhelmed by being "13645 Silver." I don't disagree with you. But people at Masters level have put in the time. They want the most clarity. They want the most granular representation of their skill. Someone at masters will not be confused or overwhelmed by seeing 25k+ people in their ladder. They'll like it. This would fix many issues including pro players not being able to reach GM. If it is just one stream of players at the top as long as they're top 200 in ladder points they'll be in GM. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
The league distribution proposals mentioned here are probably fine, with one important caveat. In WoL, every league targeted 20%. By preferring population equality in a normal skill distribution, this causes some leagues to cover a wider rating range than others. For example, if we were to dump 100 random people into a fresh system and start them all at the same rating, their skill would organically separate as they played each other like dripping water onto a flat surface. If you had to then break them out into 20% chunks, the physical gap between #1 and #20 would not look the same as the gap between #40 and #60, because the population density is naturally higher near the middle of the pack. What that means is that in a 20%/quintile system, the top and bottom leagues naturally span more area and therefore take longer to traverse. In HotS, the designers opted for a more normal distribution of 8/20/32/20/18/2. This means that although the populations aren't equal, the rating span per league is. This means that it takes roughly the same number of games to progress from one league to the next, and makes promotions a little more predictable. A 4/23/23/23/23/4 distribution is a hybrid of both previous iterations. The rating ranges per league won't be the same anymore, but they won't vary as much as they did in WoL either. Also, it will make Silver and Diamond the widest leagues, but subdivisions will help with visibility and progress tracking. The one concern I have is whether the subdivisions will be too narrow in Gold and Platinum. Given this, perhaps a 4/19/27/27/19/4 distribution is best? Or 5/20/25/25/20/5 to use rounder numbers? Also, as previously mentioned, "Pro" and "Semi-Pro" have concrete meanings in the StarCraft community. Pros have sponsors and play the game for a living, and Semi-Pros are generally second-stringers or practice partners who make tournament appearances. "Master" and "Grandmaster" apply just fine. | ||
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p4ch1n0
Germany38 Posts
On November 14 2015 05:21 Tenks wrote: Also reposting what I put in reddit since reddit seems to only want to discuss changing GM/Master to Pro/SemiPro -- despite that being the least consequential need for feedback in the post I came away from watching the MP panel thinking that GM and Masters would really just be one continuos stream of people. I didn't think up at that level there would be divisions it would simply be one big ladder with people jockeying for position. This was the most exciting change for me. It almost sounds like this is not the plan from reading the blog post. I know the initial idea behind the league and divisions when it was originally introduced was players would be overwhelmed by being "13645 Silver." I don't disagree with you. But people at Masters level have put in the time. They want the most clarity. They want the most granular representation of their skill. Someone at masters will not be confused or overwhelmed by seeing 25k+ people in their ladder. They'll like it. This would fix many issues including pro players not being able to reach GM. If it is just one stream of players at the top as long as they're top 200 in ladder points they'll be in GM. I think in this post they just focused on the percentages. The other ideas they had at the MP-panel will definitly get a feedback update on their own. Also i'm realy glad they are continuing these community updates. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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Marcinko
South Africa1014 Posts
On November 14 2015 05:42 Excalibur_Z wrote: Given this, perhaps a 4/19/27/27/19/4 distribution is best? Or 5/20/25/25/20/5 to use rounder numbers? Those do look like better numbers for league distribution. | ||
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p4ch1n0
Germany38 Posts
On November 14 2015 06:00 ROOTFayth wrote: so is GM going to be fixed or still the same garbage? Yes, if your MMR drops below top200 you will get master and someone else will take your spot. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
And btw wasn't masters always supposed to be 2%? Don't see why they have to increase the size so much. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
jesus christ that sounds like a fucking awful change | ||
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
I dont think that 4% Bronze is a great idea. You are (stuck) in Bronze and look at this way: From "+80% of all players are better than me" to"+96% of all players are better than me". | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
1) the term Pro and Semi-Pro is used for people who earn all or part of their money by playing the game. Naming the leagues after that makes no sense as there is no relation to money. You're not a Starcraft Pro if you reach Grandmaster... 2) Temp0's when I'm Grandmaster song won't work anymore | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Please, God, no. Just keep it as it is, but let people be demoted mid season. leagues can never be the right size if people can only move upwards. We are grown ups. Come on Blizzard put the big boy pants on and do the right thing. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I was Masters in HotS and I never made money playing this game. The two are not related. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
Cut that title change, it's terrible | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Considering all the problems with SC2 ladder they seem only intent of changing the names for the worse, and shuffly the eprcentages around. Not really worthy of an update, which implies actual thought or processes to be done. | ||
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Haighstrom
United Kingdom198 Posts
But what happened to league subdivisions? That was the change I was most excited about. Since ladder ranks are meaningless (normally the #1 spot is some guy who's played tons of games with a 49% win rate), having some system to see how far you are from being promoted would be fantastic. As you rightly say, masters has a huge skillgap between top and bottom, so players will have more motivation to keep playing if they see they went from masters rank 6 to 5 to 4 over time (rather than just knowing they've been in masters for months and have no idea if they're approaching grandmaster or not). For me, I'm in diamond, and I think I'm edging closer to masters league (I play masters players occasionally now). But it would be great to see something more concrete to show I'm now "high" diamond rather than just me speculating. When I do hit masters, I won't be a "semi-pro" - I work full time, and SC2 is a hobby for me. I would say one becomes a master of a hobby, not a semi-pro. Literal pros who are for whatever reason currently high masters will be super miserable with "semi-pro" as a title. So I don't like the proposed new names. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
Hope Blizzard comes up with some type of solution here. There should be a significant difference between being top 1000 and rank 3500. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On November 14 2015 08:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Pro and semi pro as new names is such a wierd and bad idea, I don't understand how it can be suggested. How can you have names for a ranking that reflects a level of employment? It just doesn't make sense. Really though sc2 need more leagues. If silver-diamond are supposed to encompase 92% of the players, why not have 6 or 8 ranks to represent that instead of just 4? Or why not have vastly more and get rid of this bizarre "no ranking down" system, so people can compare themselves with others easier? Considering all the problems with SC2 ladder they seem only intent of changing the names for the worse, and shuffly the eprcentages around. Not really worthy of an update, which implies actual thought or processes to be done. Silver-Diamond will effectively contain 40 leagues through subdivisions. Didn't you see the Ladder Revamp post or the associated panel at Blizzcon? | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
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