• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:34
CEST 05:34
KST 12:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension0Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China11
StarCraft 2
General
Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [Guide] MyStarcraft BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 593 users

MVP's Statement on MarineKing - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
566 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 29 Next All
mCon.Hephaistas
Profile Joined May 2014
Netherlands891 Posts
April 21 2015 08:47 GMT
#321
On April 21 2015 07:50 TeeTS wrote:
Everyone who knows a little bit of Marineking can absolutely confirm, that he is one of the very last players, that will ever fix a match in any professional sport/esport for monetary gain.
I for myself would guarantee that for now and for the future. And since this is all about him, I don´t get what´s wrong with you. Marineking allways has been an extremely dedicated and fair compender in BW and SC2. He is an extremely passionate hard worker and he was never the guy that cared about the big bucks, NEVER! I find this whole discussion absolutely disrespectful. You should all be ashamed!


I remember how 'fair' he was at the gstl finals vs Startale yes :')
Anyway this statement doesn't say anything, but at least they made a statement, although 2 weeks late.
I still think he matchfixed which I thought from the first time I watched the game again.
Even some pros think without much doubt that this was in fact matchfixing
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
April 21 2015 08:50 GMT
#322
On April 21 2015 17:03 DJHelium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 17:02 Ingvar wrote:
Ok, this discussion is becoming ridiculous. Let me just state what we know:

1) Pinnacle has voided >5 matches in different Korean tournaments. Every time the person supposed to win the match won it.
2) Korean illegal betting scene is huge. Olimoley (and others) tweeted about tournaments funded only for purpose of betting knowing the result, some people who want to stay anonymous but are vouched for by TL admins also told about it.
3) MK played the worst game in the history of pro SC2. Knowing the timings and lack of hatch in natural and gold bases, he didn't scout with reaper backdoor rocks of his base and didn't see either spine or creep for >1 minute.
4) Every pro who spoke about the issue (like Liquid.Snute in this very thread) doubted that such mistake can be done unintentionally.
5) ~5 years ago we already had the similar story and the coach also told that they asked Savior, he denied it and they saw no evidence that he did it. Later it was proved that there was matchfixing.

A hypothesis that MK fixed that match ties all these things neatly. Since nothing we can tell can change the attitude "this is not a proof", could the people defending MK give at least another plausible explanation to all these points?

Please note, this is not pitchforking, nobody asks for MK to get banned, only for investigation on this matter.


Nice summary. Also several pro gamers (MMA, Solar, HuK's korean friends, Axiom players) have said they've been approached by matchfixers, further indicating that there's matchfixing going on.

Well, no shit. When there is a competition and betting, there is match-fixing, too. Nothing new under the sun. Whether MarineKing match-fixed or not we can't be certain without proper investigation. If he did, he should be punished according to the law.
mCon.Hephaistas
Profile Joined May 2014
Netherlands891 Posts
April 21 2015 08:50 GMT
#323
On April 21 2015 16:38 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 16:22 Serimek wrote:
On April 21 2015 08:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:
So I'd like to ask the thread exactly what they expected out of TL. The burden of proof is on the accuser. It is not up to MVP to do the impossible, that being to prove a negative. It is up to everyone else to prove Marineking was involved in matchfixing. Thus far all they have to go on is Pinnacle suspending betting on that match, which is not an awful lot to go on. Suspicious betting activity does not in fact mean that there was any wrongdoing.

I'm honestly a little surprised at some peoples willingness to just say "yup, he obviously did it and this statement doesnt convince me otherwise". Tell me, exactly what would convince you? How exactly could they convince you? They can't, they have no means to, you can't prove conclusively a negative.


Release the replay.


It's not going to prove shit. Honestly it's like I said, if they were smart. The players would have told each other in person what build they were going to do and MKP is known for having derp-tastic games. If it's true about the odds of that website and they've been known for doing sketchy business before then you might want to find out their contact information and who they speak to and try to track a paper trail of the money because this he said she said bull crap will only get you so far. Speculation needs clear cut direction.


What? No usually only the loser is involved into the matchfixing, byul probably didn't know about it.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28475 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-21 09:09:44
April 21 2015 08:52 GMT
#324
On April 21 2015 17:46 boxerfred wrote:

I expected a thorough, clean, solid and understandable argumentation behind whatever decision/conclusion Team MVP has come to. The outcome of that decision is actually irrelevant. At this point, who really cares if MarineKing is guilty or not? I think it has all come down to a trust issue (at least for me, it has). So the most important thing currently is regaining trust. How can you do that? By transparently explaining your thought process on your decision. He's innocent? Well, hopefully you did some more than repeatedly asking him. He's guilty? Hopefully you did some more than just comparing the replay with other replays. I don't want to judge. I just want to see that organizations are actually honest. Being honest as an organization can not always be a good thing, I know, especially in hard-fought markets. But at this point, the only way to heal the damage that has been done is IMHO transparency and honesty. Let us not only know what you think, but let us know why you think so. Let us reproduce your thought process, give us the chance to agree (or disagree) with your argumentation.


You expected that? Don't you mean "hoped for"? If so, I agree
On April 21 2015 18:01 vanjojojo wrote:
Just my 2 cents but has it not occurred to anyone that someone with mkps experience / mechanics no matter how much his got worse or better over the years was going to matchfix - is he really going to make it............ this obvious?

I mean think about it - if you're smart you'll figure it out.

"Facepalm" this has been discussed so many times in the other thread. But I should inform you: What about if you're trying to throw, you are nervous, but then you scout your opponent going for a crazy all-in build. A build you, normally, should be able to stop because of the early scouting of it. What now?

The "mistake" MK made was to send out the SCV scout. But how could he have known?
I Protoss winner, could it be?
vanjojojo
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom17 Posts
April 21 2015 09:01 GMT
#325
Just my 2 cents but has it not occurred to anyone that someone with mkps experience / mechanics no matter how much his got worse or better over the years was going to matchfix - is he really going to make it............ this obvious?

I mean think about it - if you're smart you'll figure it out.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
April 21 2015 09:04 GMT
#326
On April 21 2015 17:52 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 17:46 boxerfred wrote:

I expected a thorough, clean, solid and understandable argumentation behind whatever decision/conclusion Team MVP has come to. The outcome of that decision is actually irrelevant. At this point, who really cares if MarineKing is guilty or not? I think it has all come down to a trust issue (at least for me, it has). So the most important thing currently is regaining trust. How can you do that? By transparently explaining your thought process on your decision. He's innocent? Well, hopefully you did some more than repeatedly asking him. He's guilty? Hopefully you did some more than just comparing the replay with other replays. I don't want to judge. I just want to see that organizations are actually honest. Being honest as an organization can not always be a good thing, I know, especially in hard-fought markets. But at this point, the only way to heal the damage that has been done is IMHO transparency and honesty. Let us not only know what you think, but let us know why you think so. Let us reproduce your thought process, give us the chance to agree (or disagree) with your argumentation.


You expected that? Don't you mean "hoped for"? If so, I agree

I expected. It's a naive expectation of course. But it is what a company of integrity should've done. If they don't act like a serious business, well, then fuck them. I'm not putting passion or anything into a scene that fools and betrays me while making absolutely no effort to clear anythign up.

It's easy since it's all about entertainment: I am not entertained. I pay somewhere else for something else then.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
April 21 2015 09:05 GMT
#327
On April 21 2015 18:04 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 17:52 Penev wrote:
On April 21 2015 17:46 boxerfred wrote:

I expected a thorough, clean, solid and understandable argumentation behind whatever decision/conclusion Team MVP has come to. The outcome of that decision is actually irrelevant. At this point, who really cares if MarineKing is guilty or not? I think it has all come down to a trust issue (at least for me, it has). So the most important thing currently is regaining trust. How can you do that? By transparently explaining your thought process on your decision. He's innocent? Well, hopefully you did some more than repeatedly asking him. He's guilty? Hopefully you did some more than just comparing the replay with other replays. I don't want to judge. I just want to see that organizations are actually honest. Being honest as an organization can not always be a good thing, I know, especially in hard-fought markets. But at this point, the only way to heal the damage that has been done is IMHO transparency and honesty. Let us not only know what you think, but let us know why you think so. Let us reproduce your thought process, give us the chance to agree (or disagree) with your argumentation.


You expected that? Don't you mean "hoped for"? If so, I agree

I expected. It's a naive expectation of course. But it is what a company of integrity should've done. If they don't act like a serious business, well, then fuck them. I'm not putting passion or anything into a scene that fools and betrays me while making absolutely no effort to clear anythign up.

It's easy since it's all about entertainment: I am not entertained. I pay somewhere else for something else then.


So you need to stop following every competitive activity. Or wake up and realize how the world works.
Zest fanboy.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-21 09:10:33
April 21 2015 09:08 GMT
#328
On April 21 2015 18:05 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 18:04 boxerfred wrote:
On April 21 2015 17:52 Penev wrote:
On April 21 2015 17:46 boxerfred wrote:

I expected a thorough, clean, solid and understandable argumentation behind whatever decision/conclusion Team MVP has come to. The outcome of that decision is actually irrelevant. At this point, who really cares if MarineKing is guilty or not? I think it has all come down to a trust issue (at least for me, it has). So the most important thing currently is regaining trust. How can you do that? By transparently explaining your thought process on your decision. He's innocent? Well, hopefully you did some more than repeatedly asking him. He's guilty? Hopefully you did some more than just comparing the replay with other replays. I don't want to judge. I just want to see that organizations are actually honest. Being honest as an organization can not always be a good thing, I know, especially in hard-fought markets. But at this point, the only way to heal the damage that has been done is IMHO transparency and honesty. Let us not only know what you think, but let us know why you think so. Let us reproduce your thought process, give us the chance to agree (or disagree) with your argumentation.


You expected that? Don't you mean "hoped for"? If so, I agree

I expected. It's a naive expectation of course. But it is what a company of integrity should've done. If they don't act like a serious business, well, then fuck them. I'm not putting passion or anything into a scene that fools and betrays me while making absolutely no effort to clear anythign up.

It's easy since it's all about entertainment: I am not entertained. I pay somewhere else for something else then.


So you need to stop following every competitive activity. Or wake up and realize how the world works.

You're oversimplifying and generalizing. I'm talking about the very actual case of match fixing in Korean SC2. I don't think Dreamhacks or IEMs are fixed in the outcome. I don't believe that WCS Premier is fixed.

I should mention that I initially didn't think that Proleague/GSL/NSSL included match fixing. Well, turned out I was wrong, though I wasn't a super hardcore "NO FIXING HERE" guy but more a "well I didn't think about that possibility until now" guy.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 21 2015 09:10 GMT
#329
On April 21 2015 18:01 vanjojojo wrote:
Just my 2 cents but has it not occurred to anyone that someone with mkps experience / mechanics no matter how much his got worse or better over the years was going to matchfix - is he really going to make it............ this obvious?

I mean think about it - if you're smart you'll figure it out.

A number of things could have happened. I think it's likely that he just knew he had to lose the game, but at the start of the game obviously he doesn't know how yet, as it depends on what ByuL is doing (and ByuL is most likely not part of the matchfixing in this case). Then he scouts by accident the proxy from ByuL and panics, because maybe he thought he would play a macrogame that he could lose smoothly.
In the end, players do not practice for matchfixing, they practice to win, so it doesn't seem strange to me that they wouldn't know how to do it very well.
b0lt
Profile Joined March 2009
United States790 Posts
April 21 2015 09:17 GMT
#330
On April 21 2015 11:22 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 11:16 StarGalaxy wrote:
On April 21 2015 11:06 lichter wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:58 StarGalaxy wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:51 lichter wrote:

I believe there was one or two (I think it was one) cases where the player that was supposed to lose won. I don't remember the specific game but I recall it being discussed.


Byul vs Terror. The betting lines were not voided.
The betting lines were off but not as ridiculously as in the voided ones.


I think people also misunderstand the role of Pinnacle and Pinnacle's bettors in this. The matchfixers aren't betting on Pinnacle. Matchfixers are betting on Korean betting sites. The curious activity that occurs on Pinnacle is due to some observant bettors that look at the Korean betting sites taking advantage of what appear to be fixed games. When they see curious activity on Korean betting sites, they try to take advantage by betting the same way on Pinnacle. There are several possible scenarios possible from this type of activity:

1.) Multiple Pinnacle bettors try to ride the wave and the odds explode, leading to cancelled bets — this is what we've seen happen
2.) Only a handful of Pinnacle bettors notice the possible fix, and the odds don't move enough to give us a clue — since the lines did not get voided, we don't realize these games could have been fixed
3.) Pinnacle bettors see a potential fix, bet like crazy on it, only to realize it was not a fix — this may have happened with TerrOr vs ByuL, and it may have happened in other games as well (only to fortunately get it right)

That's why Pinnacle can't stop matchfixing or the illegal betting. What happens on Pinnacle is merely a bunch of bettors trying to ride the wave, and they have no direct involvement with the fixing.


The wave ridding makes no sense. Nobody does that. A good bettor does the exact opposite. Whenever you see a big steam of money the opposite line gets more interesting to bet on. Why would anyone risk betting huge amounts of money at terrible odds? Either they lose it or the bet gets voided.

You may be right about the korean betting sides and that Pinnacle is just a side effect. What I and other bettors think is that the match fixer is selling the information to a group of people. That's why Pinnacle and other sites have probably trouble just banning the accounts of the fixers. It would be an easy fix otherwise. It would be quite obvious if only a low number of accounts bet tens of thousands of money on a single match.
Bets got voided in cases when people tried to sell it to too many other people. I think there were a lot more cases when Pinnacle didn't void the bets but the match was clearly match fixed. (See http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 )


We've already talked to Pinnacle and they seem hesitant to do anything to the accounts, since they can't prove that the accounts were in on the fix (illegal) and not merely riding the wave (not illegal). It's entirely possible that some Pinnacle bettors are buying for info on the fix, though, and then got greedy. Every instance of bets being voided is just stupidity on the part of the bettors. It's very very possible that there were other fixes that no one noticed, but there's also a chance that there were games that appeared fixed due to people trying to ride the wave and getting it wrong.


It's even entirely possible that the people betting on pinnacle are completely on the level. If the lines go nuts on korean betting sites first, an enterprising individual could guarantee profit by arbitraging the difference between the two. The only risk you'd undertake is one of the ends not honoring your bet (like what Pinnacle did).
Darkwhite
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway348 Posts
April 21 2015 09:22 GMT
#331
This is blatantly obvious matchfixing, going only by the game itself. There is no other explanation, for a good player failing to spot something on his minimap for a minute straight, when nothing else is going on and he has already knows there is something fishy about the Zerg build order. I would be surprised if anybody who has played the game at a decent level disagrees.
Darker than the sun's light; much stiller than the storm - slower than the lightning; just like the winter warm.
vanjojojo
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom17 Posts
April 21 2015 09:24 GMT
#332
On April 21 2015 18:10 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 18:01 vanjojojo wrote:
Just my 2 cents but has it not occurred to anyone that someone with mkps experience / mechanics no matter how much his got worse or better over the years was going to matchfix - is he really going to make it............ this obvious?

I mean think about it - if you're smart you'll figure it out.

A number of things could have happened. I think it's likely that he just knew he had to lose the game, but at the start of the game obviously he doesn't know how yet, as it depends on what ByuL is doing (and ByuL is most likely not part of the matchfixing in this case). Then he scouts by accident the proxy from ByuL and panics, because maybe he thought he would play a macrogame that he could lose smoothly.
In the end, players do not practice for matchfixing, they practice to win, so it doesn't seem strange to me that they wouldn't know how to do it very well.


In my opinion (please note that) sorry that's not true

They practice to win yep it's true but not knowing how to hide the fact they're match fixing is not.

Every pro will know what's going to lose them the game in their mind (based on what they see and do and how they feel)

Its not hard to hide. Plus its not unusual to see mkp go 10/10 retard mode he does it from time to time anyway. but match fixing? that guys so emotional he probably cries at a puppy sleeping.

And his not that stupid to make it that obvious - again just my 2 cents sorry if I offended anyone.
Exstasy
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom393 Posts
April 21 2015 09:36 GMT
#333
If we're going by assumptions why not just assume that MVP is in on it? fuck it they need money right?
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28475 Posts
April 21 2015 09:38 GMT
#334
On April 21 2015 18:36 Exstasy wrote:
If we're going by assumptions why not just assume that MVP is in on it? fuck it they need money right?

There's no definite proof MK matchfixed but there IS some pretty incriminating evidence, certainly more than just "assumptions". There isn't anything that incriminates MVP, so that's why.
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
April 21 2015 09:53 GMT
#335
On April 21 2015 11:06 lichter wrote:
3.) Pinnacle bettors see a potential fix, bet like crazy on it, only to realize it was not a fix — this may have happened with TerrOr vs ByuL, and it may have happened in other games as well (only to fortunately get it right)

You know that's less than 0,01% probability for 7 matches?
Exstasy
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom393 Posts
April 21 2015 09:56 GMT
#336
On April 21 2015 18:38 Penev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 18:36 Exstasy wrote:
If we're going by assumptions why not just assume that MVP is in on it? fuck it they need money right?

There's no definite proof MK matchfixed but there IS some pretty incriminating evidence, certainly more than just "assumptions". There isn't anything that incriminates MVP, so that's why.

I know man, I was being facetious.
Darkwhite
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway348 Posts
April 21 2015 10:03 GMT
#337
On April 21 2015 18:53 Jarree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 11:06 lichter wrote:
3.) Pinnacle bettors see a potential fix, bet like crazy on it, only to realize it was not a fix — this may have happened with TerrOr vs ByuL, and it may have happened in other games as well (only to fortunately get it right)

You know that's less than 0,01% probability for 7 matches?


2^-7 = 0.78%
Darker than the sun's light; much stiller than the storm - slower than the lightning; just like the winter warm.
Disarmed
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria721 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-21 10:26:12
April 21 2015 10:20 GMT
#338
ups, wrong fred
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28475 Posts
April 21 2015 10:21 GMT
#339
On April 21 2015 18:56 Exstasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 18:38 Penev wrote:
On April 21 2015 18:36 Exstasy wrote:
If we're going by assumptions why not just assume that MVP is in on it? fuck it they need money right?

There's no definite proof MK matchfixed but there IS some pretty incriminating evidence, certainly more than just "assumptions". There isn't anything that incriminates MVP, so that's why.

I know man, I was being facetious.

I don't know anymore :/
I mean, with posts like this:
On April 21 2015 07:50 TeeTS wrote:
Everyone who knows a little bit of Marineking can absolutely confirm, that he is one of the very last players, that will ever fix a match in any professional sport/esport for monetary gain.
I for myself would guarantee that for now and for the future. And since this is all about him, I don´t get what´s wrong with you. Marineking allways has been an extremely dedicated and fair compender in BW and SC2. He is an extremely passionate hard worker and he was never the guy that cared about the big bucks, NEVER! I find this whole discussion absolutely disrespectful. You should all be ashamed!

It's insanely naive but he is actually being serious isn't he? :-S
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-21 10:25:50
April 21 2015 10:21 GMT
#340
On April 21 2015 19:03 Darkwhite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 18:53 Jarree wrote:
On April 21 2015 11:06 lichter wrote:
3.) Pinnacle bettors see a potential fix, bet like crazy on it, only to realize it was not a fix — this may have happened with TerrOr vs ByuL, and it may have happened in other games as well (only to fortunately get it right)

You know that's less than 0,01% probability for 7 matches?


2^-7 = 0.78%

That's assuming 50-50, I don't remember the previous ones, but I went with Creator-Soulkey odds (which I admit, I didn't even check)

edit: still didn't quite match. less than 0,1% more like
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 26m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 229
RuFF_SC2 184
NeuroSwarm 170
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4387
EffOrt 92
NaDa 77
Mind 58
Noble 25
Icarus 6
Bale 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever783
League of Legends
JimRising 682
febbydoto17
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K841
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox802
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor150
Other Games
summit1g15370
shahzam885
WinterStarcraft453
ViBE216
Maynarde188
ROOTCatZ26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick5174
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH354
• davetesta44
• gosughost_ 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift6036
• Rush1803
Other Games
• Scarra1746
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
7h 26m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
WardiTV European League
1d 12h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.