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On March 25 2015 09:43 ZenithM wrote:
Just a question though. If I wanted to destroy the pro-scene, all I would need is a couple of 10,000 dollars, and place a few big bets on some games which I'm pretty sure will be one-sided?
I mean, the fact that MK usually loses in horrible ways was just a nice bonus here.
I think it's time to take the red pill, Neo.
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On March 25 2015 09:43 ZenithM wrote:
Just a question though. If I wanted to destroy the pro-scene, all I would need is a couple of 10,000 dollars, and place a few big bets on some games which I'm pretty sure will be one-sided?
I mean, the fact that MK usually loses in horrible ways was just a nice bonus here.
I guess but you don't actually believe that's what's going on here!?
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On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed.
That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well.
That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches.
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On March 25 2015 09:46 Blargh wrote:
The reaction looked like a poor act to me, but hey, I only noticed it after I had read this thread, so there is some bias now.
Also, if what Rekrul is saying is that people are CURRENTLY, fixing and throwing matches in PL on a major ("rampant") scale, then wtf are we (as viewers and a community) still doing. Like, honestly, how could anyone ever watch PL and even give a shit with that information? I do hope that was an extreme exaggeration, because that'd be really disappointing. Like, I can tolerate a few throws here and there, whatever, shit is hard to avoid, but if tons of players are doing it...?
Why is it you (Rekrul) are only just now posting this information regarding match fixing? It's not that I think you're untrustworthy or whatever, it's just... How could you not say something about it sooner if you had this kind of insider info?
I assume because he has no actual proof?
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Haha I didn't say anything about not believing the match-fixing calm down guys, it was just to understand better how such behavior could be replicated through other less disappointing means.
I mean, I'm the hurt MarineKing fan here, please understand ;D
Edit: And I know that Rekrul is as legit as it gets, but it's not like what he's telling is really useful either...
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What really confuses me is why anyone is still gambling on SC2/Proleague if they're so sure that matches are being fixed and/or lines are being manipulated. It's much worse if "everyone knows" it happens but they're betting anyways...
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On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches.
It's very true but also totally irrelevant. No one is saying the match was fixed only because people have fixed matches before.
People are saying the match was fixed because of the betting lines and the fact that MKP played like someone in Silver League.
Shady betting lines and the fact that it looks like someone is intentionally throwing = fixed match.
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On March 25 2015 09:49 ZenithM wrote:
Edit: And I know that Rekrul is as legit as it gets, but it's not like what he's telling is really useful either...
It's useful in an apocalyptic sense.
"Things are going to get worse. Much worse. Abandon hope."
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On March 25 2015 09:49 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches. It's very true but also totally irrelevant. No one is saying the match was fixed because only people have fixed matches before. People are saying the match was fixed because of the betting lines and the fact that MKP played like someone in Silver League. Shady betting lines and the fact that it looks like someone is intentionally throwing = fixed match.
I am not sure about that silver league thing. I doubt even a silver league player would go for 3 CC after scouting with the scv that there was no natural and no gold taken.
It's not like 2 reapers would have defended against a baneling bust if byul would have taken 2 gas after the scv left.
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And let's be honest, yesterday was a pretty awful day for Proleague if we're talking about skill. MarineKing was the worst but ironically his blunder didn't stick out like a sore thumb amid other epic games.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
wow people suck at fixing
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On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches.
I'm going to be perfectly honest, MarineKing not noticing that spine (he had no vision of the creep when he started the 3rd CC and he doesn't use allied colors, the yellow dot doesn't really stand out as much on the map as it should IMO) is about as suspicious as Cure moving out with all his units against Stats after scouting that there's no natural, no in-base tech and not looking for proxies (when it was past the time for both oracles and DTs) or Maru not noticing a nydus in his main for more than 30 seconds at IEM. Sometimes, these things happen. The only thing that makes it suspicious are the betting lines, which cause everyone to go "Matchfixing! Burn the witch!" and which nobody can explain in any other way.
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On March 25 2015 09:49 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches. It's very true but also totally irrelevant. No one is saying the match was fixed only because people have fixed matches before. People are saying the match was fixed because of the betting lines and the fact that MKP played like someone in Silver League. Shady betting lines and the fact that it looks like someone is intentionally throwing = fixed match.
Did San and dark game look like it was match fixed at all?
the quality of the game does not affect whether it was match fixed or not.
A suspicious looking game has just as high chance being fixed as one that does not look suspicious
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On March 25 2015 10:01 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches. I'm going to be perfectly honest, MarineKing not noticing that spine (he had no vision of the creep when he started the 3rd CC and he doesn't use allied colors, the yellow dot doesn't really stand out as much on the map as it should IMO) is about as suspicious as Cure moving out with all his units against Stats after scouting that there's no natural, no in-base tech and not looking for proxies (when it was past the time for both oracles and DTs) or Maru not noticing a nydus in his main for more than 30 seconds at IEM. Sometimes, these things happen. The only thing that makes it suspicious are the betting lines, which cause everyone to go "Matchfixing! Burn the witch!" and which nobody can explain in any other way.
1. It's a lot easier to mistake a Nydus for an Overlord (which Maru knew was floating around his base) than it is to mistake a Creep Tumor, and creep, for nothing, for 3 minutes.
2. Maru is no longer above suspicion. No one is.
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It looks beyond reasonable doubt that this was a throw and as a huge MKP fan this hurts a lot. If only we could be sure that all fixed matches looked this obvious then it would not be a problem, but it is so easy to lose a game of sc2 with its 'terrible, terrible damage' with just 2 seconds of inattentiveness that many could go unnoticed.
Sad - but it happens in other esports too I bet.
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On March 25 2015 09:19 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:54 Yorkie wrote:
Someone watch the replay from MK's pov. If he looks at the spine/creep then doesn't react that's damning. If not then there's no evidence that he simply didn't notice. It would be a monumental mistake, but stranger things can happen Aeromi did. He posted this on aAa : Show nested quote +J'ai regardé le replay. Il voit le premier point rouge a 3 minutes 59, il scoute rien. A 5 minutes 40 il a du creep dans sa main il check toujours pas. C'est que à 5 minutes 46 qu'il vient checker les rochers. "I watched the replay. He sees the first red dot at 3:59, doesn't scout. At 5:40 he has creep in his main base, still doesn't scout. It's only at 5:46 that he checks the rocks."
Thanks for this.
It does match what I expect as a long time MK fan, though. He might have been playing a prepared build on autopilot - like when he tried to take his natural base while his production was at risk.
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On March 25 2015 10:05 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 10:01 Elentos wrote:On March 25 2015 09:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 25 2015 09:25 ETisME wrote:
Knowing there is match fixing in the scene does not imply this match is match fixed. That's very true; we want to look at this game independently, as opposed to poisoning the well. That being said, it seems that quite a few eyebrows are justifiably raised at this particular game, regardless of other fixed matches. I'm going to be perfectly honest, MarineKing not noticing that spine (he had no vision of the creep when he started the 3rd CC and he doesn't use allied colors, the yellow dot doesn't really stand out as much on the map as it should IMO) is about as suspicious as Cure moving out with all his units against Stats after scouting that there's no natural, no in-base tech and not looking for proxies (when it was past the time for both oracles and DTs) or Maru not noticing a nydus in his main for more than 30 seconds at IEM. Sometimes, these things happen. The only thing that makes it suspicious are the betting lines, which cause everyone to go "Matchfixing! Burn the witch!" and which nobody can explain in any other way. 1. It's a lot easier to mistake a Nydus for an Overlord (which Maru knew was floating around his base) than it is to mistake a Creep Tumor, and creep, for nothing, for 3 minutes.
Look at the VoD at points where the observer shows MK's vision before that stuff enters the main (e.g. 5:16) and look at the minimap. The creep and spine are barely visually distinct from the parts of the map they are close to. If MK doesn't pay full attention to that, he could potentially have a hard time making it out, and even then, it's possible he didn't bring his camera there to check what it is. It's MarineKing, when he played against Leenock, he got a full squad of marines surrounded and killed early on, didn't stim, didn't send any units there for support, nothing. If it's possible for him to miss that much, I reckon he might miss a yellow dot on white background.
As I said, the betting lines are the suspicious thing, not the play itself.
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It look really bad for MK but watching his games over the years. He is a dumb player and loses in a manner almost as bad if not worse then this game. Regardless, I think his career is over.
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I hate to be the one to say it, but I do honestly believe that MarineKing is awful enough to make mistakes like these.
I also do believe that some match fixing is going on in PL, but I'm not 100% convinced this was the case here (the fan part of me doesn't want to accept it I guess). MarineKing's play + MarineKing's camera reactions + betting lines though... sure justifies all the suspicions...
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EPT
