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On March 25 2015 08:27 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:25 Wuster wrote:On March 25 2015 08:21 HolyArrow wrote:I think it's Waxangel who posted this translation for MKP's post in a reddit thread:
It's a call out against the people who are saying he match-fixed. There's an implicit assumption that the people who are calling him out are the people who lost betting on him.
"Gambler trash couldn't possibly know... What the "pro" in "progamer" means...
Most of us had to go against disapproval from our parents since we were young, and we earned the title of Progamer because we wanted it that much and worked that hard for it. It's our pride in that title that lets us live through repetitive and hard lives.
People like you who don't have any dreams and pass through life like water -- who come to know of us through illegal betting -- you don't have any right to gossip about or insult us.
For a single game, waking and sleeping, we wrack our brains like crazy, planning and discussing with our teammates -- that's what you need to win a precious victory. Losers like you wouldn't know that for your entire lives. It's pathetic how you say players who lose are fixing matches. Because you guys will never know what it feels, that heart-pounding satisfaction when you win."
Of course the obvious question is why did all of his practice and effort fail to include updating his scouting pattern after Symbol did the same proxy on this map? But ya, more or less what I expected him to be saying, if not more angry than I expected. ... because Marineking. Seriously, scouting has never been his strong point; neither has change. Hardship, yeah, he's had to work to get where he is and had some tough periods going through it.
What happened here is different from not scouting. He did scout the proxy, then chose not to act on it. If he had just gone blind cc first that would be one thing, but he had the information to act on this and didn't use it.
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huh didn't think we'd get to the point that people wouldn't know who rek was lol.
On March 25 2015 08:34 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. rekrul is lurker 
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On March 25 2015 08:27 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:25 Wuster wrote:On March 25 2015 08:21 HolyArrow wrote:I think it's Waxangel who posted this translation for MKP's post in a reddit thread:
It's a call out against the people who are saying he match-fixed. There's an implicit assumption that the people who are calling him out are the people who lost betting on him.
"Gambler trash couldn't possibly know... What the "pro" in "progamer" means...
Most of us had to go against disapproval from our parents since we were young, and we earned the title of Progamer because we wanted it that much and worked that hard for it. It's our pride in that title that lets us live through repetitive and hard lives.
People like you who don't have any dreams and pass through life like water -- who come to know of us through illegal betting -- you don't have any right to gossip about or insult us.
For a single game, waking and sleeping, we wrack our brains like crazy, planning and discussing with our teammates -- that's what you need to win a precious victory. Losers like you wouldn't know that for your entire lives. It's pathetic how you say players who lose are fixing matches. Because you guys will never know what it feels, that heart-pounding satisfaction when you win."
Of course the obvious question is why did all of his practice and effort fail to include updating his scouting pattern after Symbol did the same proxy on this map? But ya, more or less what I expected him to be saying, if not more angry than I expected. ... because Marineking. Seriously, scouting has never been his strong point; neither has change. Hardship, yeah, he's had to work to get where he is and had some tough periods going through it.
I'm being party facetious. MK does stupid things all the time. But if he's going to claim hard work and planning then how does he expect us to believe that he would remember to scout for hidden expos but then neglected the proxy location that had been attempted before in a televised game despite having multiple units (his idle reapers) in position to do so.
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While there are obvious reasons to be concerned, and we ought to give this thought, I would just want to remind everyone that:
-the internet is prone to making us automatically assume all evidence is trustwrothy and believability correlates with verbosity
-Our community has been known to be trigger-happy when it comes to declaring guilt on any subject within the realm of Starcraft
-we've already had a significant news story broken mere days ago by someone who ought to be trustworthy that turned out to be 100% wrong
-armchair detectives on the internet are typically completely wrong, sometimes to disastrous consequences (Reddit's investigative skills literally killed a man before)
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On March 25 2015 08:47 Circumstance wrote:
-we've already had a significant news story broken mere days ago by someone who ought to be trustworthy that turned out to be 100% wrong
What happened?
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On March 25 2015 08:51 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:47 Circumstance wrote:
-we've already had a significant news story broken mere days ago by someone who ought to be trustworthy that turned out to be 100% wrong What happened?
This did. Or rather, it didn't. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/481120-speculation-yoe-flash-wolves-dropped-by-main-sponsor
If anyone ought to know what's happening in Taiwanese Starcraft, it's Breaker. But like everyone else, he can be wrong.
EDIT: I just remembered, Breaker is even affiliated with the Yoe Flash Wolves, either currently or fairly recently. So yes, even expertise isn't infallibility.
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Wow, a throw can't get much more obvious than that. Who did he think he was going to fool?
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I think MKP is done for regardless of the match fixing outcome. This is pretty upsetting all around.
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Someone watch the replay from MK's pov. If he looks at the spine/creep then doesn't react that's damning. If not then there's no evidence that he simply didn't notice. It would be a monumental mistake, but stranger things can happen
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On March 25 2015 08:25 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:18 Caihead wrote:On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. Rek is old school. He pretty much broke the bw match fixing. Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:18 GTR wrote:
in a nutshell and in relation to this topic he was the first person to break the story about how there was match fixing in the brood war industry in 2010. he has numerous industry connections stemming from his time as a progamer in the early 2000s so you can trust most of what he says. Oh, wow, OK. So... we just learned that PL and individual league matches are regularly fixed? Just like that? This is now a thing? Is complete and utter dismay an appropriate reaction at this time?
Yeah I had to double take at that too. Is this really a thing that people know about and accept? It almost makes this particular discussion (did MKP throw the match) irrelevant.
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What if everything was made up by the betting websites to get more exposure? How far are we supposed to believe whats going on there?
I dont want to be the guy callng for a conspiracy but suddenly there is matchfixing accusation everywhere and it seems like a good way to get more exposure, because everytime it create a huge headline on different websites.
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On March 25 2015 08:56 ricecake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:25 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:18 Caihead wrote:On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. Rek is old school. He pretty much broke the bw match fixing. On March 25 2015 08:18 GTR wrote:
in a nutshell and in relation to this topic he was the first person to break the story about how there was match fixing in the brood war industry in 2010. he has numerous industry connections stemming from his time as a progamer in the early 2000s so you can trust most of what he says. Oh, wow, OK. So... we just learned that PL and individual league matches are regularly fixed? Just like that? This is now a thing? Is complete and utter dismay an appropriate reaction at this time? Yeah I had to double take at that too. Is this really a thing that people know about and accept? It almost makes this particular discussion (did MKP throw the match) irrelevant.
I just went from staying up until 4 AM to watch the GSL and NSSL finals, to having zero interest in any upcoming SC2 content, within the space of one thread.
This is catastrophically huge. I don't understand why nobody is freaking out, unless nobody saw the post.
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Germany3128 Posts
On March 25 2015 08:54 Yorkie wrote:
Someone watch the replay from MK's pov. If he looks at the spine/creep then doesn't react that's damning. If not then there's no evidence that he simply didn't notice. It would be a monumental mistake, but stranger things can happen
Someone made a post on reddit just like half an hour ago where he shows that MK atleast didn't see the creep when he put down his 3rd but he could see the spine. Maybe he mistook the spine for an ovi.
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On March 25 2015 08:54 Yorkie wrote:
Someone watch the replay from MK's pov. If he looks at the spine/creep then doesn't react that's damning. If not then there's no evidence that he simply didn't notice. It would be a monumental mistake, but stranger things can happen
I imagine that the Spine could have looked like an Overlord on the mini-map, but didn't he know he had no units down there to spot? I'm sure he checks the minimap and didn't miss the fact there was a unit there either, and knew where his stuff was.
Oh well, I imagine this probably isn't the first or last time this will happen. These guys don't get paid a ton and they aren't getting any younger. And with all the talk about SC2 is dying from everyone (not saying I agree with that sentiment), I imagine that some pro-gamers what to make as much as they can while they can.
What is really funny about this to me is that they could have practiced this throw a bit better, the same way the pros practice any build order. The Hatch placement was bad, the Spine placement was bad, MKP scouting down was bad.
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On March 25 2015 08:58 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:56 ricecake wrote:On March 25 2015 08:25 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:18 Caihead wrote:On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. Rek is old school. He pretty much broke the bw match fixing. On March 25 2015 08:18 GTR wrote:
in a nutshell and in relation to this topic he was the first person to break the story about how there was match fixing in the brood war industry in 2010. he has numerous industry connections stemming from his time as a progamer in the early 2000s so you can trust most of what he says. Oh, wow, OK. So... we just learned that PL and individual league matches are regularly fixed? Just like that? This is now a thing? Is complete and utter dismay an appropriate reaction at this time? Yeah I had to double take at that too. Is this really a thing that people know about and accept? It almost makes this particular discussion (did MKP throw the match) irrelevant. I just went from staying up until 4 AM to watch the GSL and NSSL finals, to having zero interest in any upcoming SC2 content, within the space of one thread. This is catastrophically huge. I don't understand why nobody is freaking out, unless nobody saw the post.
I am freaking out, already was a little before that post tbh..
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On March 25 2015 08:58 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:56 ricecake wrote:On March 25 2015 08:25 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:18 Caihead wrote:On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. Rek is old school. He pretty much broke the bw match fixing. On March 25 2015 08:18 GTR wrote:
in a nutshell and in relation to this topic he was the first person to break the story about how there was match fixing in the brood war industry in 2010. he has numerous industry connections stemming from his time as a progamer in the early 2000s so you can trust most of what he says. Oh, wow, OK. So... we just learned that PL and individual league matches are regularly fixed? Just like that? This is now a thing? Is complete and utter dismay an appropriate reaction at this time? Yeah I had to double take at that too. Is this really a thing that people know about and accept? It almost makes this particular discussion (did MKP throw the match) irrelevant. I just went from staying up until 4 AM to watch the GSL and NSSL finals, to having zero interest in any upcoming SC2 content, within the space of one thread. This is catastrophically huge. I don't understand why nobody is freaking out, unless nobody saw the post.
i feel like i've read similar things to what rekrul posted here several times before. i just try really hard to block them out of my mind i guess. this thread did for the first time in my life make me understand why people (fans) care so much about prize money, team salaries etc. i used to think it was pretty weird for a mere consumer to care so much about what other people earn, but in this context, it makes a lot of sense. if the progamers earn enough money to earn a decent living, they are a lot less tempted to participate in shady matchfixing situations.
i am by no means saying i believe Marineking is guilty. there is no evidence to prove such a claim; unfortunately, there is none that disproves it either. i hope he's not guilty though, cause i really like him. i have to admit i was really confused when i watched this game live though.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 25 2015 08:53 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:51 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:47 Circumstance wrote:
-we've already had a significant news story broken mere days ago by someone who ought to be trustworthy that turned out to be 100% wrong What happened? This did. Or rather, it didn't. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/481120-speculation-yoe-flash-wolves-dropped-by-main-sponsorIf anyone ought to know what's happening in Taiwanese Starcraft, it's Breaker. But like everyone else, he can be wrong. EDIT: I just remembered, Breaker is even affiliated with the Yoe Flash Wolves, either currently or fairly recently. So yes, even expertise isn't infallibility.
If rekrul says it, assume it's true.
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Wow, when I first saw the Thread Title, I thought this was a Troll Post, but this is just...
I don't know what to make of this.
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On March 25 2015 09:07 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 08:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:56 ricecake wrote:On March 25 2015 08:25 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:18 Caihead wrote:On March 25 2015 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 25 2015 08:08 Rekrul wrote:
facts:
1. illegal sports betting in korea is much bigger than it was during the BW scandal so there is more $ to be earned from throwing matches, pinnacle is just a small piece of the pie
2. everyone in the korean sc2 scene already knows that fixing is rampant in proleague especially among players who don't make much money and aren't good enough to dominate individual leagues (where it definitely happens sometimes as well)
3. sc2 is already suffering in korea as is, them investigating or going public trying to stop it is not only futile with the given industry dynamics, but would also likely destroy sc2 in korea I'm not sure how to ask this without coming off as a dick, but, uh... who are you? You've got a ton of posts, you may be in Korea, and you seem to have some insider info, so I'm very intrigued. Rek is old school. He pretty much broke the bw match fixing. On March 25 2015 08:18 GTR wrote:
in a nutshell and in relation to this topic he was the first person to break the story about how there was match fixing in the brood war industry in 2010. he has numerous industry connections stemming from his time as a progamer in the early 2000s so you can trust most of what he says. Oh, wow, OK. So... we just learned that PL and individual league matches are regularly fixed? Just like that? This is now a thing? Is complete and utter dismay an appropriate reaction at this time? Yeah I had to double take at that too. Is this really a thing that people know about and accept? It almost makes this particular discussion (did MKP throw the match) irrelevant. I just went from staying up until 4 AM to watch the GSL and NSSL finals, to having zero interest in any upcoming SC2 content, within the space of one thread. This is catastrophically huge. I don't understand why nobody is freaking out, unless nobody saw the post. i feel like i've read similar things to what rekrul posted here several times before. i just try really hard to block them out of my mind i guess. this thread did for the first time in my life make me understand why people (fans) care so much about prize money, team salaries etc. i used to think it was pretty weird for a mere consumer to care so much about what other people earn, but in this context, it makes a lot of sense. if the progamers earn enough money to earn a decent living, they are a lot less tempted to participate in shady matchfixing situations. i am by no means saying i believe Marineking is guilty. there is no evidence to prove such a claim; unfortunately, there is none that disproves it either. i hope he's not guilty though, cause i really like him. i have to admit i was really confused when i watched this game live though.
I don't even care about MarineKing anymore. According to Rekrul, that's just the tip of the iceberg. This happens in PL and Korean individual leagues.
To put things in very stark and very dumb perspective: how do we know that Maru vs Dream wasn't fixed? We don't. But before we had no reason to wonder, and now we do. I don't mean to pick on either Maru or Dream, in fact being on profitable teams, they're less likely to go for it than anyone, I'm just saying if Rekrul is as legit as people say, and if he's not trolling, then... gg?
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EPT
