After over 1500 votes and consulting with various progamers, we can finally announce the results of the fifth TeamLiquid Map contest. Before I continue, I'd just like to thank The_Templar for his hard work doing the bulk of the administrative work to make this contest happen. There's a surprising amount of work that goes on behind the scenes and this contest could not have happened without him. I'd also like to thank the TL Strategy team for their help in deciding the finalists, and also organising the TL Map Contest 5 Open.
Last but not least, thanks to Blizzard for making this contest possible. This season they've really gone above and beyond to help legitimize community maps. Not only will at least two of the following maps be used on the ladder, but the winner will have the opportunity to have one of his maps used during the Legacy of the Void beta. Additionally, the prize pool this season is incredible. Thanks for your continued support, and we hope to be back doing this real soon™.
Without further ado, here are the results for TLMC5.
Honorable Mentions
Timberwolf | lorestarcraft
Neo Emerald Plaza | IeZaeL
Cactus Valley | Ferisii
Coda | IeZaeL
While unfortunately out of the top three, the other four maps are still high quality and enjoyable maps to play on. You will get the opportunity to experience this yourself very shortly when we host our open tournament on the TLMC maps. Thanks to Blizzard, each mapper here will receive a Legacy of the Void Beta key and a Community Commander portrait.
Third Place
Adun's Shrine | Caevrane
Adun's Shrine was the winner of the public poll, but did not place as high on the pro vote. Nevertheless, it still ends up in third place overall! During our play tests Adun's Shrine quickly stole our hearts as it created extremely entertaining games which utilized the terrain in interesting ways. While a player may be able to get up to 4 bases relatively easily, there is sufficient counter play possible so that the game is not forced into a static macro game. Additionally, design of the map rewards players with good army control and those who are able to take advantage of the pathways.
Thanks to Blizzard, Caevrane will receive the following prizes.
Legacy of the Void Beta Key
Community Commander Portrait
Dev Signed – StarCraft II 2015 Wall Calendar
StarCraft II Kerrigan Vinyl Figure
StarCraft II Jim Raynor Vinyl Figure
Zergling/Baneling Reversible Plush
Alex Ross Limited Edition Laser Cell Lithograph – SC2 Justice
StarCraft II Razer Spectre Gaming Mouse
StarCraft II Razer Banshee Gaming Headset
StarCraft II SteelSeries Heart of the Swarm Mouse Pad
Second Place
Ganymede | Uvantak
The trend of surprises continues! Not many people were picking Ganymede to do well in this contest - but the map tied first in the pro vote and placed third in the public vote. Ganymede features a concept not seen since the Brood War map Bluestorm; there are long chasms running diagonally across the map and the chasm going from the top left to the bottom right stretches the length of the map. The interplay of high and low ground allows for better players to make use of the terrain and gain an edge over their opposition. At the same time, the natural and the third have the same height and the natural has no ramp. This allows for a more aggressive style of play compared to maps which have naturals on top of ramps.
First Place
Echo | Uvantak
Yes, that's right. Uvantak stole both the #1 and #2 spots in this contest. Despite having the same author, Echo is a very different map to Ganymede. Echo is more choked off with generally thinner corridors and supports a more passive style of play since the natural and third have ramps to allow players to defend this position. The center of the map is strongly reminiscent of Cloud Kingdom in it's interplay of chokes, highground and strategic positioning. While being a standard map, once you examine the map closely there is a lot of intricacy that makes this a top quality map and one that has the potential to be used for many seasons.
As the winner, and runner-up, of TLMC5 Uvantak will receive the following prizes thanks to Blizzard
Legacy of the Void Beta Ladder Map Spot
(Blizzard will work with Uvantak to feature one of his maps in the LotV Beta ladder.)
Legacy of the Void Beta Key
Community Commander Portrait
Dev Signed – StarCraft II 2015 Wall Calendar
StarCraft II Kerrigan Vinyl Figure
StarCraft II Jim Raynor Vinyl Figure
Zergling/Baneling Reversible Plush
Alex Ross Limited Edition Laser Cell Lithograph – SC2 Justice
StarCraft II Razer Spectre Gaming Mouse
StarCraft II Razer Banshee Gaming Headset
StarCraft II SteelSeries Heart of the Swarm Mouse Pad
Public Vote: 1) Adun's Shrine 2) Echo 3) Ganymede 4) Neo Emerald Plaza 5) Cactus Valley 6) Coda 7) Timberwolf
Pro Vote: 1) Echo + Ganymede (tie) 3) Coda 4) Adun's Shrine 5) Timberwolf 6) Cactus Valley 7) Neo Emerald Plaza
Final Standings: 1) Echo 2) Ganymede 3) Adun's Shrine 4) Coda 5) Cactus Valley 6) Neo Emerald Plaza 7) Timberwolf
Interview with Uvantak
For those of you who don't keep up with the mapping scene (you really should, they all post here!) you may have not connected the dots from the last TLMC. Uvantak has been one of the most successful (arguably, the most successful) mapper in the last year. He placed 2nd and 3rd in TLMC4 with his maps 'Foxtrot Labs' and 'Kamala Park' -- the former being a map used in WCS and on the ladder. He went on to place in three (winning twice) out of seven 'Map of the Month' contests (which is a contest that will keep you up to date on the best from the mapping scene). His map 'Samarra Mines' was the third place map in the Map-ximum 2 contest held recently. And now, to top of that incredible mapping resume he has taken both first and second in TLMC5.
We felt it was time that the wider community got to know Uvantak, where he came from and what motivates his maps.
Hi Uvantak, thank you for doing this interview with us. First off, tell us how you got into mapping.
Oh wow, well I have loved making maps since I first got to play Ages Of Empires I at 11, this was in the place of a friend that had a computer because I didn't get one until i was 14, and as every good nerd kid should the first thing I did was to play Starcraft I on it. My first "real" map was a snowy version of BGH where i would play Terran and turtle up behind thousands of siege tanks vs 7 AIs in Free For Alls.
As it happens I never really got much into Ages Of Empires other than playing AoE1 when I was younger, Red Alert or other RTS and genres newer really interested me. I'm a StarCraft guy.
When Starcraft WoL beta was announced I was lucky enough to get in early, and as soon as the editor was released I started making maps, my first ever SC2 map was called Bloody Sands which can still be found on TeamLiquid.
Bloody Sands by Uvantak, or Kantuva as he was known then
After Bloody Sands I started making other maps, slowly improving. But when WoL was about to be officially released my laptop at the time died and for around a year and I wasn't able to make maps because we couldn't afford to repair the computer (my family has never been rich), when we finally could afford to fix the computer a friend of mine, Hayato, told me that I should continue making maps because he enjoying playing on my older ones.
Map making takes a lot of time, and I was quite discouraged because I didn’t consider map making to be something I could be able to spend much time on, but he convinced me and after that, around late 2012, I started making maps again. I improved more and more as time passed, barely getting into the TLMC#3 as eighth place, and getting second and third places in the TLMC#4, and now getting second and first in the 5th TLMC.
Obviously your map Foxtrot Labs was played in WCS and on the ladder, did you learn anything from this experience?
Hmmm not really, all the background surrounding Foxtrot Labs is quite unfortunate, the map that got to the ladder was not the correct map version due to a communication issue so a few small issues had already been fixed in the correct version such as Pylon wall-offs or Siege Tanks being able to hit places that shouldn't.
Besides that, the map was designed and thought in an era where Terran was underperforming, Almost all the maps from that moment were accounting for this and making Terran be stronger to compensate, Foxtrot was no exception. And after the submissions for TLMC#4 closed, Blizzard released a balance patch to help Terran. These were the most nail biting moments I have ever experienced on my map making career, because I knew that Terran would end up being stronger than it was supposed to be on Foxtrot Labs.
When Foxtrot made it to ladder I was extremely worried about how would the map behave in the long run, because of the version problems and the Terran buffs. Happily at the end Foxtrot Labs became one of the most balanced maps in the Season 3 and 4 of 2014. Terran buffs made TvP and TvZ become a bit Terran favored for a good while, but over time the other races cached up and the winrates stabilized even when the map didn’t have as many games played.
Foxtrot Labs was very disliked and received lots of bad reviews in pro-gaming circles because it is such a difficult map to play on. But this was for a reason, Foxtrot Labs was the first of it’s kind in the sense that was the first map to not cater to the players, but to produce fun games for the spectators. I worked in a huge amount of features to achieve this goal, the open naturals making being too greedy dangerous, the way Zerg players can’t just simply do a 3 Hatch before pool as easily and macro up to only start interacting with is opponent at the 8 minute mark, and the way the ledges around the natural and thirds are placed to make things such as cool Reaper harass happen even when there are already Queens out. Lets be real, no one likes to have Reapers or Banshees picking your stuff off when you want to simply macro up, but a player that sits still for 7 minutes while macroing is no fun to watch for the spectators of an E-Sport.
There is this quote I like to use; “Foxtrot is not a players map, Foxtrot is an spectators map.”
Can you explain for us the concept behind Echo and how you think the map will play out in future?
Echo... Superouman's (Cloud Kingdom creator) last maps were all experimenting with ways to "break down the deathball". Cloud Kindgom had this general idea too, but Superouman's ideas were pretty much left obsolete by HotS and the Swarm Host. He was using something similar to a chessboard of very tight chokes or bridges with very wide areas for zone control, it is a brilliant idea, but the Swarm Host more or less nullifies it because Zerg can set up static defense with Swarm Hosts and influence several sectors or squares without a economic commitment.
Foxtrot and Kamala Park use a similar concept; instead of using very tight chokes I use ramps to make terrain more valuable to hold and create a smaller scale chessboard, this is why Foxtrot and Echo have so many of them, instead of playing for sectors on a literal chessboard you are playing for the smaller high grounds.
As it happens the highground mechanics in Starcraft II are not very strong compared to Brood War, so when you also have a large number of alternate pathways you can avoid the Swarm Host problems that Superouman's ideas had.
These ideas have their own issues mind you, for example Zerg has no real way to gain advantages from my ideas, and Hydra Roach based armies in ZvP become quite weaker because of the overall “chockiness” of the maps, so one must be very very careful, because one might break PvZ in a meta where Mutalisks are easily countered.
Ganymede is quite a different map, so would you mind telling us a bit about it?
Ganymede is the funny one, I'm quite surprised Gany made it this far being honest, there are so so many maps that I feel are equally or more interesting than the ideas I displayed on Gany.
Gany is using a vanilla version of the ideas I spoke earlier, it is a mix of both, you can see the four blocks or chess board that Superouman would have used in the center of the map, but coupled with ramps instead of very tight choke points, I'm very interested in how will this map develop because it is the first time I have ever used both systems together. The map faces circle syndrome issues, that may make the map prone to base races, similar to an older map, Dual Sight, nonetheless it should still be solid.
PvZ, TVZ, MechvZ, and PvT should all be more or less balanced, even as the map goes into months of play, unless something goes awfully wrong, which at the moment I highly doubt it will. Maybe Swarm Host games may be too strong in certain scenarios, but probably not that much. These days it is very easy for experienced mapmakers to achieve long term balanced maps, what is hard is to make maps that are both very interesting, from a gameplay and mapmaking perspective while keeping them balanced.
As someone who has been so successful in mapping, do you have any advice for those who are still trying to find their footing in map making?
Enjoy it! Have fun trying ideas! But beware to not try too many at the same time, that's where most early mapmakers fall, check the ladder maps and try to imitate the maps in there, I know making standard maps is boring when you are starting, but if you don't have the basics to make a good solid standard map, then you will probably not be able to make your ideas come to fruition as you would like it.
I will also be around on the Team Liquid Custom Maps section giving advice now and then alongside other mapmakers such as IeZael, TimeTwister, NewSunshine or -NegativeZero-. Don't be afraid to post in the Work In Progress thread! But remember every time you do a map, ask yourself "Why does my map suck?", be reticent of those that only congratulate your map because no map is perfect, focus on what you consider are errors and don't be afraid to fully ditch complete maps.
As the winner of the contest, Blizzard will be working with you to develop a map for LotV beta. What are your thoughts about this opportunity?
I'm thrilled to be able to make maps for LotV, but it will be very hard because of the lack of game knowledge regarding the lack of any developed metagame and the way units will be used 4 to 5 months into the beta. I consider myself to be a solid mapmaker, but I’m still just one mapmaker that has only one brain with limited ideas. It will be quite the challenge to make maps for a game that’s in continuous development. The best example I can think about are the early Wings Of Liberty maps. The people that made these maps didn’t expect the metagame to develop the way it did and they had years working on the game. So as I said, I’m thrilled because hey! it’s LotV! But at the same time I’m scared because I’m more or less on my own, and I want to be able to deliver something that’s memorable.
Now the question is to Foxtrot or not to Foxtrot? Heh.
Thank you for taking the time to give us such detailed answers, do you have parting comments?
I would like to address casters and programers specifically to stop spending your time on Twitter and have a look at the Melee Maps section of TeamLiquid, you don't have to post at all, just browse around and get ideas of the maps that are being done and the ideas behind them. If you don't agree with them then leave a comment with one of your alt accounts, discuss strategy with us and tell us why you consider X thing doesn't work as well as you think. You are biased, so are we, but by whining on twitter because you didn't get your standard map the way you like it will only get you in our blacklist of people we don't put attention to.
And last I would like to say thank you to the SXG and YGD teams for being awesome! Also to the entire Latin SC2 community, to JoeMurray, Adoghost, the whole team of ES4LA, you guys rock! And a special mention to Hayato, this one goes for you buddy!
Oh I almost forgot! If you would like to check out other of my maps search in custom games for KTV, and you will be able to find them easily. There are other mapmakers that also upload their maps under Tags, some of these are Galaxy, ESV, DF, TPW, AEM, TT and KP. I highly suggest you to check these out, I wish we could get a Map Pool of 20 maps so we could use them all! hehe.
On February 25 2015 08:11 -NegativeZero- wrote: if emerald plaza doesn't win i'm going to slap a baby
well, now i'm really feeling sorry for a couple of unfortunate parents out there
Edit: Congrats to Uvantak for both 1st and 2nd place. But serious question, no offense to Caevrane, but what do people actually like about Adun's Shrine? It's a very turtly map.
cactus valley didnt win, shit list (but seriously, congratulations to the winners, really hope we can have glorious balanced games on these maps in the future)
It would be nice if we had more transparency with respect to the pro vote, seeing it weighs so heavily. And by that I mean, number of voters and race distribution.
On February 25 2015 08:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: O_O
neither Cactus Valley nor NEP made the top 3? This is madness
I'm incredibly surprised that NEP and cactus didn't score higher, i was totally expecting NEP to get placed first and Cactus third with Echo in between.
Congratulations Uvantak!!! That was a really well deserved double victory.
I have to say, I'm kind of shocked by some of the results. Adun's Shrine as #1 in public poll? Sure, it was pretty, but so were plenty of other maps this time around. Sure, it had a really neat layout, but so did plenty of other maps (OK, not Cactus). Emerald Plaza as #7 in pro poll, though? Holy cow, never would have seen that coming.
Congrats/condolences to all the other map makers, too, this was a much stronger set of maps than last TLMC, IMO.
Didn't expect neo emerald plaza and cactus valley to place this low. Luckily cactus valley has a ladder spot basically safe because its the only 4 player map and deadwing is gonna get replaced next season. Also surprised aduns shrine has won the public vote, didnt really like that map
On February 25 2015 08:49 Charoisaur wrote: Didn't expect neo emerald plaza and cactus valley to place this low. Luckily cactus valley has a ladder spot basically safe because its the only 4 player map and deadwing is gonna get replaced next season. Also surprised aduns shrine has won the public vote, didnt really like that map
you forget that blizzard can be very clueless when it comes to getting new good maps on ladder
Ganymede shouldn't make it, I predict mech is going to be very strong on that map. Park tanks in between natural and 3rd, lots of turrets in main and you have extremely secure 3-base as terran. Couple that with much less secured 3rd/4th for the opponent, and it could be a problem.
That said, I think it's the best looking map.
And honestly, similar can be said for Echo, the only difference is the opponent will have more secure three bases there. I didn't vote for Adun's Shrine, but I think the public might have been on the money on the balance front.
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
I'm really surprised Adun's Shrine won the public vote. Oh, and Ganymede is nothing like Blue Storm since the low ground passages run perpendicular to the main attack path instead of parallel, in addition to other differences.
I'm happy to see that we have a pretty and balanced winning map though.
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
I wrote in the TLMC voting thread that I was never happy with the results of those contests because I had bad memories of Biome or that retarded lava map. This is the first time since the legendary Ohana - Cloud Kingdom - Korhal Compound top 3 (Yeonsu - Ravager - Frost was actually pretty good too) that I'm really convinced the three maps of the top 3 have high potential and sustainibility in a competitive context.
Congrats, congrats to Uvantak, you extraordinary mapmaker. I still make nightmares of Biome taking over Foxtrot Labs and Kamala Park in that shameful TLMC4. What a sweet revenge. I had voted for Ganymede but I'm totally happy with Echo. Congrats again, and I hope you keep on making those amazing maps. I loved Foxtrot Labs and would have traded it every day for the shitty maps Blizzard forced upon us this season. That map was beginning to be figured out and deserved more time on ladder/WCS.
All those maps have what it takes to be used in a competitive map pool ; the current map pool is dreadful (the only good map is Overgrowth, and even I am beginning to get sick of it) and I would have no regret if all those maps got scrapped next season. Replace them with the top 7 of that contest ? I know I'd be perfectly OK with it.
Wow, congratz Uvantak. Thought your maps would place high, but did not see that coming. Really expected Cactus and Emerald to give you a run for the money.
KTV best KT! Congrats on the first and second place finishes, you consistently make maps that are balanced and create exciting games! Also pretty, very pretty maps! I wish Foxtrot had more tenure than the one WCS season, and that Kamala coulda made the big stage cause that was pretty and exciting!
also thanks to everybody who puts effort into making these maps, you guys are literal gods tasteless.
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
Just as a minor note, he used to be Protoss.
Well in WoL Beta. Yeah, and I still hate Stimed Marauders and Concussive because of it!
On February 25 2015 09:56 Big J wrote: Wow, congratz Uvantak. Thought your maps would place high, but did not see that coming. Really expected Cactus and Emerald to give you a run for the money.
Oh for sure, I have said it already, I was really expecting NEP to get 1st, and Cactus Valley to get Third, second being Echo.
/edit Also glad you guys like the maps, I hope to not disappoint on TLMC#6
o.O Adun's Shrine would have been cool, but the balance on that map would have been off the charts. On the other hand, I'm glad Ganymede won although I'm disappointed about Cactus Valley not making it. I'm still a bit meh on Echo since it promotes so much passive play and resembles Nimbus, but only time will tell.
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
Just as a minor note, he used to be Protoss.
Well in WoL Beta. Yeah, and I still hate Stimed Marauders and Concussive because of it!
You were Protoss untill late-WoL/early-HotS. I don' remember very well, but it was arround that.
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
Just as a minor note, he used to be Protoss.
Well in WoL Beta. Yeah, and I still hate Stimed Marauders and Concussive because of it!
You were Protoss untill late-WoL/early-HotS.
Well that doesn't make sense Caev, because during a whole lot of WoL I wasn't playing Starcraft :p
Nice job uva, but more importantly well done voting system and voters. Sad NEP placed so low but it's not unexpected. Nonetheless we have a good winner!
For good measure:
have a look at the Melee Maps section of TeamLiquid, you don't have to post at all, just browse around and get ideas of the maps that are being done and the ideas behind them. If you don't agree with them then leave a comment with one of your alt accounts, discuss strategy with us and tell us why you consider X thing doesn't work as well as you think
On February 25 2015 08:11 -NegativeZero- wrote: if emerald plaza doesn't win i'm going to slap a baby
well, now i'm really feeling sorry for a couple of unfortunate parents out there
Edit: Congrats to Uvantak for both 1st and 2nd place. But serious question, no offense to Caevrane, but what do people actually like about Adun's Shrine? It's a very turtly map.
No surprised that the "safer" maps take the pole positions. Im a bit sad that neither of the two innovative maps makes at least top 3 though. Is it possible for Cactus Valley or NEP to enter the next pool if, say, Blizzard simply likes them and decides to adopt?
Not happy about Cactus Valley being left out, but the biggest shock to me is that Coda was so high since it's a Zerg playground. Not sure why people are shocked about Neo Emerald Plaza when it's so hard to get a third base.
Adun's Shine and Ganymede should make great spectator maps.
Not what I was hoping to see (sorry Uvantak!) but not unexpected either. The top two manage to walk a delicate balance between the only viable map design for the game right now -- main, nat, and big open space in between -- without falling into the trap of a boring aesthetic, as a map like Cactus Valley did with its overly-obvious big, open mid (Coda kind of falls into the same trap, though it's more in-between).
Good mixture of high/low ground to mask the inevitable restriction and a lot of solid aesthetic polish. Well done Uvantak. You could easily slap 'em on ladder and see them perform well.
Interesting top 3. I really like Ganymede, Echo is a fine map though it surprises me it got first, and Adun's Shrine gives me too many Daybreak vibes for me to judge it fairly.
On February 25 2015 11:07 Arceus wrote: No surprised that the "safer" maps take the pole positions. Im a bit sad that neither of the two innovative maps makes at least top 3 though. Is it possible for Cactus Valley or NEP to enter the next map if, say, Blizzard simply likes them and decides to adopt?
Yes. Blizzard has final say (which is why we weren't cursed with Biome in the ladder).
Hi kantuva!, the latin american community is very proud of you! One of your dreams has come true, keep working hard and doing awesome stuff, who knows, maybe Blizzard will then hire you.
Hi kantuva!, the latin american community is very proud of you! One of your dreams has come true, keep working hard and doing awesome stuff, who knows, maybe Blizzard will then hire you.
On February 25 2015 11:07 Arceus wrote: No surprised that the "safer" maps take the pole positions. Im a bit sad that neither of the two innovative maps makes at least top 3 though. Is it possible for Cactus Valley or NEP to enter the next pool if, say, Blizzard simply likes them and decides to adopt?
Sure.
Like Nimbus for instance, which wasn't even a finalist in any TLMC
This is a four-player community map created by Icetoad. While this map was not among the finalists in the Team Liquid Map Contest, it has placed highly in similar contests and caught our eye. The in-base natural expansion on the high ground is an interesting feature, which combined with a slightly easier to take third base, should offer something new to the current map pool.
I would like to address casters and programers specifically to stop spending your time on Twitter and have a look at the Melee Maps section of TeamLiquid, you don't have to post at all, just browse around and get ideas of the maps that are being done and the ideas behind them. If you don't agree with them then leave a comment with one of your alt accounts, discuss strategy with us and tell us why you consider X thing doesn't work as well as you think. You are biased, so are we, but by whining on twitter because you didn't get your standard map the way you like it will only get you in our blacklist of people we don't put attention to.
Grats to everyone and to Uvantak in particular. Hopefully Blizzard will make the right choices when it comes down to next season's ladder !
Ganymede is pretty much Daybreak with ramps on different positions. I should pick overgrowth, rework the middle part with ramps, choose a different color and everyone will praise my creativity.
Completely deserved, very very very happy with these results. I can't wait to have both of Uvantak's maps on the ladder. Played on both of them and they immediately felt cool.
Gratz to uvantak, and to others too cause honorable mention maps are gorgeous too, it would be cool if all could come on ladder at one point to see how the balance end up being on them.
We should have mid-season map change one the ladder, I understand tournaments need maps stability but us laddering scrubs would benifit greatly from more variety and fun.
(well I m one of the 1% that had fun on dreampool, so maybe I m biased)
Hi kantuva!, the latin american community is very proud of you! One of your dreams has come true, keep working hard and doing awesome stuff, who knows, maybe Blizzard will then hire you.
On February 25 2015 19:33 velvex wrote: I like how the screenshots of Uvantak's maps are just slightly angled. It makes it noticeably easier to read the layout.
On February 25 2015 19:33 velvex wrote: I like how the screenshots of Uvantak's maps are just slightly angled. It makes it noticeably easier to read the layout
Him and i toke screenshots both angled and straight downwards. We actually submitted our maps with the same format, but for some reason they're using Uvantak's angled shots.
On February 25 2015 09:36 [PkF] Wire wrote: I am elated.
I wrote in the TLMC voting thread that I was never happy with the results of those contests because I had bad memories of Biome or that retarded lava map. This is the first time since the legendary Ohana - Cloud Kingdom - Korhal Compound top 3 (Yeonsu - Ravager - Frost was actually pretty good too) that I'm really convinced the three maps of the top 3 have high potential and sustainibility in a competitive context.
Congrats, congrats to Uvantak, you extraordinary mapmaker. I still make nightmares of Biome taking over Foxtrot Labs and Kamala Park in that shameful TLMC4. What a sweet revenge. I had voted for Ganymede but I'm totally happy with Echo. Congrats again, and I hope you keep on making those amazing maps. I loved Foxtrot Labs and would have traded it every day for the shitty maps Blizzard forced upon us this season. That map was beginning to be figured out and deserved more time on ladder/WCS.
All those maps have what it takes to be used in a competitive map pool ; the current map pool is dreadful (the only good map is Overgrowth, and even I am beginning to get sick of it) and I would have no regret if all those maps got scrapped next season. Replace them with the top 7 of that contest ? I know I'd be perfectly OK with it.
Korhal was terrible, and I didnt really like cloud, I will admit i was extremely pleased with ohana though...all the same i have to agree with you, I can't wait to see these maps in action on ladder, the more the better
I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
On February 26 2015 01:07 GGuMake wrote: I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
thats my main concern with it...doesnt look that good for zerg but if zerg survives midgame without too many loses...should be fine
On February 26 2015 01:07 GGuMake wrote: I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
thats my main concern with it...doesnt look that good for zerg but if zerg survives midgame without too many loses...should be fine
Looks fine to me. Both the third and the fourth are vertically aligned with the main, and since 99% of T and P players will take the same expansions, the distance between the two players' bases is kept and the 3rd/4th, that might look "forward" when looking at the overview, are in fact not really "forward".
On February 26 2015 00:12 Topin wrote: Caevrane are you from Uruguay too or you are just playing with my mind
Haha, Uvantak's my brother, we both come from Chile, but now we live in Uruguay.
wait really? O_O
Hehe yeah, and before anyone freaks out, I left him more or less alone while making his maps, i only helped him when polishing details such as pathing and some general advice about cannon rushes and such which are things i do when giving advice to any new mapmaker. I just like anyone else i'm very very surprised that his map made it, specially considering the insane levels of competition. But sadly this has come with a price, I'm now being annoyed* by my little brother about how he got his map into the TLMC while to me it took years and years of work... -.-
/edit Changed molested by annoyed* No guys, my brother does not touch me on my peepee, he simply irritates and laughs at me.
On February 26 2015 00:12 Topin wrote: Caevrane are you from Uruguay too or you are just playing with my mind
Haha, Uvantak's my brother, we both come from Chile, but now we live in Uruguay.
wait really? O_O
no it's just his alt account so people don't get angry that Kantuva takes ALL the prizes
Hahaha, That's exactly what we were worried about when i was submitting my maps; that they could supect from me being Uvantak, since we made the map submitting the same way.
On February 26 2015 01:07 GGuMake wrote: I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
thats my main concern with it...doesnt look that good for zerg but if zerg survives midgame without too many loses...should be fine
I feel like the map will encourage a lot of counter attacks and slightly bigger ling styles/active units even in ZvZ.
I mean there are a lot of paths, no way a single ball of units can adequately defend all of them (looking at you 100+ supply pure roach balls!)
On February 26 2015 00:12 Topin wrote: Caevrane are you from Uruguay too or you are just playing with my mind
Haha, Uvantak's my brother, we both come from Chile, but now we live in Uruguay.
wait really? O_O
Hehe yeah, and before anyone freaks out, I left him more or less alone while making his maps, i only helped him when polishing details such as pathing and some general advice about cannon rushes and such which are things i do when giving advice to any new mapmaker. I just like anyone else i'm very very surprised that his map made it, specially considering the insane levels of competition. But sadly this has come with a price, I'm now being molested by my little brother about how he got his map into the TLMC while to me it took years and years of work... -.-
Don't forget i help you with aesthetics with many, many of your maps, so it's actually a trade off. You wouldn't even know how to use custom textures if it wasn't for me. ;D
On February 26 2015 01:07 GGuMake wrote: I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
thats my main concern with it...doesnt look that good for zerg but if zerg survives midgame without too many loses...should be fine
I feel like the map will encourage a lot of counter attacks and slightly bigger ling styles/active units even in ZvZ.
I mean there are a lot of paths, no way a single ball of units can adequately defend all of them (looking at you 100+ supply pure roach balls!)
You underestimate the Power of the Roach in ZvZ. Roaches can defend, attack, harass, base trade, be dropped, be nydused, be split in multiple groups for either attack or defense ; Roaches are the answer to every unit, even the Mutalisk.
On February 26 2015 01:07 GGuMake wrote: I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players.
thats my main concern with it...doesnt look that good for zerg but if zerg survives midgame without too many loses...should be fine
I feel like the map will encourage a lot of counter attacks and slightly bigger ling styles/active units even in ZvZ.
I mean there are a lot of paths, no way a single ball of units can adequately defend all of them (looking at you 100+ supply pure roach balls!)
You underestimate the Power of the Roach in ZvZ. Roaches can defend, attack, harass, base trade, be dropped, be nydused, be split in multiple groups for either attack or defense ; Roaches are the answer to every unit, even the Mutalisk.
I tried to hatch first into pool gas into taking opponent gold on overgrowth he scouts unfinished gold so i cancel take my third...roaches saved my ass really hard
Those two winners really are eye-candy, man, I would fap to that. Congratulations Uvantak, and thank you for these amazing maps. I hope both will be used in the next ladder season! Can't wait to see how they play out.
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
I just wish Foxtrot Labs had done better ><
Runner up of TLMC4, got on ladder, was played by the best of the best. I guess it was robbed of first place in TLMC4 by Biome and of a better competitive life by Blizzard's stubbornness to make pros play on Secret Spring, but so many good maps never ever got recognition that I can't feel too sad for Foxtrot Labs. Of course I wish it had done better, but it had a really succesful existence compared to most maps. I'm sadder for Kamala Park for instance, that never got to be played on ladder, to stay with Uvantak's maps.
On February 25 2015 09:07 Musicus wrote: Congrats Uvantak and Caevrane!
Kinda scared as a zerg, since Uvantak uses chokes and pathways so much and I didn't like Foxtrot, but those maps still look great and I can't wait to see some on the ladder .
Well I'm zerg myself, Foxtrot was a special case in the sense that when the map was made Terran was underpowered, and Foxtrot accounted for this by buffing terran a bit on inderect ways, but terran was also buffed as the season advanced meaning that Foxtrot became less and less Zerg friendly as the season advanced, atm Zerg is a bit underpowered but not that much to highly modify a map because of it, so in general you shouldn't be having too much problems on these maps even when some areas are quite narrow. Gany will probably be better for zerg than echo tho, that's normal.
Just as a minor note, he used to be Protoss.
LOL dont want to start a balance debate but WCS ro16 3p 3t and 7z with 2 groups one with hyrda so.. gsl ro8 with one group left 1p 3t 3z and nssl ro8 3p 2t 3z so i think all in all its pretty balanced really just on the players now not the races.so i think zergs will be fine. but ppl will think whatever they want.
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
I just wish Foxtrot Labs had done better ><
Had done better? Its balanced statistics would put many, many maps to shame, and it provided entertaining games.
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
I just wish Foxtrot Labs had done better ><
Had done better? Its balanced statistics would put many, many maps to shame, and it provided entertaining games.
Yes, but it was unfairly disliked even though it should have been the next daybreak/whirlwind etc.
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
I just wish Foxtrot Labs had done better ><
Had done better? Its balanced statistics would put many, many maps to shame, and it provided entertaining games.
Yes, but it was unfairly disliked even though it should have been the next daybreak/whirlwind etc.
Ah yeah for sure, I never understood all the hate for it.
On February 26 2015 06:56 404AlphaSquad wrote: Congratulations Kantuva! Your mapmaking contributions to the community has helped sc2 alot, and your maps deserve this win!
I just wish Foxtrot Labs had done better ><
Had done better? Its balanced statistics would put many, many maps to shame, and it provided entertaining games.
Yes, but it was unfairly disliked even though it should have been the next daybreak/whirlwind etc.
Ah yeah for sure, I never understood all the hate for it.
It is mostly because the map is very annoying to play on, but the map was designed to be annoying for players, so I was more or less expecting it to be disliked, but I never expected for it to reach such levels of hate tho specially at the start.
EPT
. 
I voted for the map in 2nd place, and was torn with voting for the 3rd place map. The winning map looks impossible to take and hold a 3rd/4th base, doesn't look good for zerg players. 
