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Legacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
732 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 37 Next All
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
February 18 2015 20:57 GMT
#641
On February 19 2015 05:49 Spawkuring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table


Heh, looks like they're already about to drop the idea of slowing down attack speed. No surprise as that was a dumb idea in the first place.

Still pretty annoying that they won't tweak unit pathing. I can guarantee that whatever pathing change they tested out in the past was half-assed and didn't address what people want anyway. Not to mention that addressing unit clumping isn't some panacea that will solve all of SC2's problems. It's just one of the many factors that need to be addressed to stop deathballing.

afaik they tested out units always staying in formations by raising some magic box radius or something like that, which is obviously not the proper approach
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 18 2015 21:08 GMT
#642
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table


I'm pretty sure they won't bring out any major changes in mechanics because every time they'll try they'll be afraid of what they're doing.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3300 Posts
February 18 2015 21:25 GMT
#643
On February 19 2015 05:49 Spawkuring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table


Heh, looks like they're already about to drop the idea of slowing down attack speed. No surprise as that was a dumb idea in the first place.

Still pretty annoying that they won't tweak unit pathing. I can guarantee that whatever pathing change they tested out in the past was half-assed and didn't address what people want anyway. Not to mention that addressing unit clumping isn't some panacea that will solve all of SC2's problems. It's just one of the many factors that need to be addressed to stop deathballing.


40% reduction in attack speed is ridiculous. Since LotV is going to completely change balance anyway, Blizzard should mess with damage values instead. Of course, there are more drastic measures that many of us prefer, but it does not seem like they are willing.

Blizzard should really look at the unit damage types. SC2 has damage bonuses, whereas BW has damage types that, in general, reduce the amount dealt.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Damage
T P Z sagi
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-18 21:35:21
February 18 2015 21:35 GMT
#644
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table

greatly disappointed by this :/
i really wanna know what the negative effects are, other than that they have to balance aoe differently if such a change would get through...
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Spawkuring
Profile Joined July 2008
United States755 Posts
February 18 2015 21:35 GMT
#645
On February 19 2015 06:08 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table


I'm pretty sure they won't bring out any major changes in mechanics because every time they'll try they'll be afraid of what they're doing.


Blizz's timidness is a factor, but another issue is that their ideas just aren't very good. I mean let's look at LotV, and how the biggest changes are just trying to make the units introduced in HotS work. In fact, the entire HotS patch timeline was trying to keep their new units from shitting the bed, and some of those new units (swarm host, tempest) have to literally be reworked. As for the LotV units themselves, we've already lost the Herc, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the cyclone and disruptor put on the chopping block as well. The SC2 team needs a better "idea guy".
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
February 18 2015 21:38 GMT
#646
I wish one day Blizzard grows some balls....
aka Kalevi
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
February 18 2015 21:58 GMT
#647
well banelings are very useless without clumping. AoE less dangerous too. Maybe not every unit should have clumping path.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
February 18 2015 22:01 GMT
#648
On February 19 2015 06:58 Dingodile wrote:
well banelings are very useless without clumping. AoE less dangerous too. Maybe not every unit should have clumping path.

Yeah as i said, they would need to rebalance aoe, but if that is the negative aspect they are talking about....
I don't know, it's just lazy :/
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-18 22:04:44
February 18 2015 22:02 GMT
#649
I just wished they'd stop testing these things internally and put out Call To Action maps instead

"Yeah so we tested it with some bronze guys, they said it didn't change anything so nope".
Not saying that thats what Blizzard is doing, but for all that we know they take two interns off of WoW and make them play the game.
Just in general, the more people testing, the better the testing results.

Little transparency, little will to experiment, I don't like the looks of this
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
February 18 2015 22:02 GMT
#650
On February 19 2015 06:25 purakushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 05:49 Spawkuring wrote:
On February 19 2015 05:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/16284119373?page=4#73

Looks like changes in unit clumping are off the table


Heh, looks like they're already about to drop the idea of slowing down attack speed. No surprise as that was a dumb idea in the first place.

Still pretty annoying that they won't tweak unit pathing. I can guarantee that whatever pathing change they tested out in the past was half-assed and didn't address what people want anyway. Not to mention that addressing unit clumping isn't some panacea that will solve all of SC2's problems. It's just one of the many factors that need to be addressed to stop deathballing.


40% reduction in attack speed is ridiculous. Since LotV is going to completely change balance anyway, Blizzard should mess with damage values instead. Of course, there are more drastic measures that many of us prefer, but it does not seem like they are willing.

Blizzard should really look at the unit damage types. SC2 has damage bonuses, whereas BW has damage types that, in general, reduce the amount dealt.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Damage

There is really not a lot of difference in between those. Whether your Dragoon does 10 (+5vs armored, +10vs massive) or your dragoon does 20 (-5vs medium, -10vs big) is mostly a way of formulating things.
The Broodwar system makes it so that the units are harder to tweak (you can't only nerf the damage a dragoon does vs medium, without either influencing its damage vs big/small too; or without changing all other units with explosive damage values). But they are a little more consistent to learn since you can predict which unit your unit is good against, just from knowing the damage type. (He has Ultras, so getting something with explosive is probably good)

But in the end it comes down to your arbitrary unit designs and interactions anyways. 20damage can be high or low depending on your opponent's health values.
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
February 18 2015 22:09 GMT
#651
ok guys all seriousness aside, we need to talk about this



there is so much truth in this video...
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
February 18 2015 22:12 GMT
#652
Well thats another point, I doubt they even have a big enough team on SC2 anymore to do any big changes. I guess Heroes Of The Storm is where all the money goes into right now.

It's hard not be pessimistic these days. I really hope Blizzard realizes what they have with SC2 and doesn't just let it slowly fade into oblivion after LotV.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
February 18 2015 22:21 GMT
#653
On February 19 2015 07:12 KeksX wrote:
Well thats another point, I doubt they even have a big enough team on SC2 anymore to do any big changes. I guess Heroes Of The Storm is where all the money goes into right now.

It's hard not be pessimistic these days. I really hope Blizzard realizes what they have with SC2 and doesn't just let it slowly fade into oblivion after LotV.


"Well, LotV is finally out, good work boys. Now let's all get back to Heroes"

"But boss, shouldn't we have someone keep working on SC2?"

"Work on what now?"
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
February 18 2015 22:26 GMT
#654
On February 19 2015 07:09 graNite wrote:
ok guys all seriousness aside, we need to talk about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfr9qWZTgnk

there is so much truth in this video...

I saw this vod today. Its so much GOLD
aka Kalevi
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-18 23:23:44
February 18 2015 23:21 GMT
#655
On February 18 2015 09:28 jellyjello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2015 07:54 coolman123123 wrote:
I like Warp Gate and I think Forcefield, in essence, is one of the best and most skill intensive spells in the game. I have heard it limits map design, but I think a compromise could be found (maybe the Ravager is a start). I think Protoss can have a new Gateway unit and WG/FF.


Any spell which limits the movement of the opposing forces is a terrible design concept because the losing side cannot "fall back" strategically. This is more than just a map design problem; it fundamentally interferes with what RTS game should be all about.

I don't think the problem is movement limiting spells as such, but rather its prevalence. I think they ARE the more frustrating spells to deal with. For that reason, if they are included (and I think there are strategic reasons for putting movement limiting spells into RTS') then it is essential to limit how often they are used. This could be through unit cost or cooldown or through mechanical requirements

In older RTS' if such spells existed they would be limited to late game units and was furthermore limited by who quickly you could cast the spells. The combination of low tier movement limiters (sentries) and smart-casting increases the prevalence of these spells during the game. This makes a frustrating spell more irritating. You get the same thing in games like League of Legends. crowd-control spells- slows and stuns have their place in the game. But an individual game can become very frustrating when the opponent's team has a large number of slow and stun abilities. You are more likely to here complaints and such simply due to the prevalence.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Startyr
Profile Joined November 2011
Scotland188 Posts
February 19 2015 01:46 GMT
#656
You cant say every spell that limits movement is terrible. As Brood war is often referenced, the arbiter stasis ability can trap large groups of units actually allowing for interesting tactics.

Or even the marauders concussive shell, removing that would make protoss gateway units stronger to a point where terran has a much more difficult time.

You can not just make blanket statements, everything is connected.
xxjcdentonxx
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada163 Posts
February 19 2015 02:19 GMT
#657
that stupid video said that they removed ranked play in lotv? sounds completely made up but can someone explain what they were talking about?
"Expand or die." —Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #45
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
February 19 2015 03:28 GMT
#658
On February 19 2015 11:19 xxjcdentonxx wrote:
that stupid video said that they removed ranked play in lotv? sounds completely made up but can someone explain what they were talking about?

Actual kinda translation

He's telling a story when he used to work in a restaurant. He left a "paella pan" at the beach and was asked by the cook to go take it, but when he arrived there the tide was high and he had to swim to find it...

Source

I've seen the same vid used for Dota2, Heroes of the Storm, and The Order 1886. It's the Hitler rant vid of our time.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
February 19 2015 04:16 GMT
#659
On February 19 2015 11:19 xxjcdentonxx wrote:
that stupid video said that they removed ranked play in lotv? sounds completely made up but can someone explain what they were talking about?

It was about the common Bug that ranked play appeared locked.
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
February 19 2015 06:01 GMT
#660
On February 19 2015 07:26 404AlphaSquad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 07:09 graNite wrote:
ok guys all seriousness aside, we need to talk about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfr9qWZTgnk

there is so much truth in this video...

I saw this vod today. Its so much GOLD


This video is too GOLD kekekeke
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
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