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Matchfixing is a very serious offence and accusations of matchfixing should not be made lightly. Please avoid making accusations against specific individuals unless you have substantial proof, or until further information is released. (0620 KST) | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:07 dsousa wrote: Yes, lets stick our heads in the sand and wish it away. You mean, let's stick our heads in the sands of the premature accusation? I see a lot of people with their heads in, indeed. How is that hard? Calm. the. fuck. down. There's no evidence yet, only statement that prove nothing. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:10 MorDka wrote: yeah san just suicided his mothership on puprose, to make this game not look suspicious while trowing a game. Just stop this Dude I clearly see he didn't clean his glasses well. Clearly matchfixing! Hate hate pitchforks kill kill daed gam. Seriously, so many accusations and overreactions for a betting site that detected something is off on a match but offers no proof whatsoever..... Let's just wait for a Kespa statement, Binnacle to give some more information (This sort of accusation (it is an accusation) without any evidence other than "our system detected something" is pretty nasty), San to respond, etcetera. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:10 MorDka wrote: yeah san just suicided his mothership on puprose, to make this game not look suspicious while trowing a game. Just stop this I only casually followed the Savi0r trial, but as I recall the prosecution made very careful diagrams of engagements that Savi0r fudged enough to lose right? I mean you can have stupid match fixing like what happened in WCS EU (well attempted anyways), but if betters are going to be involved I imagine the throwing would be more sophisticated. IIRC there was a pro that posted about being offered money to throw games wasn't there? But, the more I think about it, the less I think San was involved. | ||
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Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
edit: Zeromus posted this already whoops. Either way I was inclined to believe that nothing malicious was done in the first place. This will all go away soon. Absolutely zero evidence except for undisclosed betting trends and San losing to a superior player | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:14 Wuster wrote: I only casually followed the Savi0r trial, but as I recall the prosecution made very careful diagrams of engagements that Savi0r fudged enough to lose right? I mean you can have stupid match fixing like what happened in WCS EU (well attempted anyways), but if betters are going to be involved I imagine the throwing would be more sophisticated. IIRC there was a pro that posted about being offered money to throw games wasn't there? But, the more I think about it, the less I think San was involved. GungFuBanda and Jensen. GFB was seriously attemting a bribe, Jensen was kidding about it and got punished for trolling before reporting. | ||
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Aeromi
France14461 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:14 Wuster wrote: I only casually followed the Savi0r trial, but as I recall the prosecution made very careful diagrams of engagements that Savi0r fudged enough to lose right? I mean you can have stupid match fixing like what happened in WCS EU (well attempted anyways), but if betters are going to be involved I imagine the throwing would be more sophisticated. IIRC there was a pro that posted about being offered money to throw games wasn't there? But, the more I think about it, the less I think San was involved. Solar | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:15 Darkhorse wrote: https://twitter.com/SC2San/status/557631631994146817 No wait, I don't trust Darkhorse Must be matchfixing!!! + Show Spoiler + Heh | ||
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HeyImFinn
United States250 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:02 dsousa wrote: Really, what is he doing from 8:04 to 8:08? We're talking 8 seconds, at 200 apm that's a huge amount of actions to not even move your msc. Is it better to recall instead of just move the msc? Four seconds. Not eight. You're being overcritical. Even with 200 APM, mistakes happen. Especially for San, who's been notorious for making some of the dumbest mistakes in all of Starcraft 2. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
I am both sad and happy about San's message. A shitty day should really not end up in something as bad as this. But on the other hand at least his message made it seem really clear that he isn't matchfixing. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17721 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:15 Yorkie wrote: https://twitter.com/SC2San/status/557631631994146817 edit: Zeromus posted this already whoops. Either way I was inclined to believe that nothing malicious was done in the first place. This will all go away soon. Absolutely zero evidence except for undisclosed betting trends and San losing to a superior player honestly it just sounds like people heard about San's wrist/shoulders issues and put bets on Dark because that's the obvious thing to do, statistically it probably looks a lot like match fixing in terms of the bets placed | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:19 Die4Ever wrote: honestly it just sounds like people heard about San's wrist/shoulders issues and put bets on Dark because that's the obvious thing to do, statistically it probably looks a lot like match fixing in terms of the bets placed Agreed. Can people stop shitting on San now? | ||
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bLah.
Croatia497 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:07 ZeromuS wrote: Then why are you getting so angry when people say that they aren't taking pinnacle's statement as relating to matchfixing on face value? I think you need to calm down in that regard. I understand Pinnacle wouldn't do this to avoid paying money. But perhaps they would do it to avoid the risk that something skewed the betting oddly to protect themselves against matchfixing or future potential matchfixing. It is IMO more likely to be a false positive with the "safe" decision to act on the false positive rather than a true positive and the damning and accusatory decision to act on it. I'm not getting angry at that, after all even in Pinnacle statement it says "suspected manipulation", and I said that there is no clear ingame evidence. As far as we know it might be some 3rd party trying shit on pinnacle, not connected with dark/san. On the other hand I find it naive when people dismiss Pinnacle statement like it's nothing or that they're trying to scam people. I've placed tens of thousands of $ worth of bets there and they've always been perfectly fair with great customer service. So yea, I don't think you can just trigger their false positives just like that. Something went down but we can't know what, best we can do for now is follow Pinnacle actions more closely, their odds/maxbets/games offered. That might give us more insight into what they're thinking and if they believe there are other players involved. | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:16 HeyImFinn wrote: Four seconds. Not eight. You're being overcritical. Even with 200 APM, mistakes happen. Especially for San, who's been notorious for making some of the dumbest mistakes in all of Starcraft 2. Well the MSC was attacked for 8 seconds, but for the first 4 he was chasing the overseer. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:22 dsousa wrote: Well the MSC was attacked for 8 seconds, but for the first 4 he was chasing the overseer. Maybe he thought he had given the MSC a move command/Recall command? Maybe he was doing some macro? Rehotkeying stuff? It's not like players look at EVERY SINGLE THING THEY OWN every 8 second cycle... We don't know. | ||
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dazed25
3566 Posts
"My play was poor because I haven't been able to practice much lately, as my wrist and shoulders haven't been feeling good. I've been to the hospital for treatment but things didn't seem to be getting any better, so I reduced my practice time." Maybe someone with that information regarding San's health could have been a reason for an influx of bets. It's too premature to blame San directly without any further evidence. | ||
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Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
On January 21 2015 05:19 Die4Ever wrote: honestly it just sounds like people heard about San's wrist/shoulders issues and put bets on Dark because that's the obvious thing to do, statistically it probably looks a lot like match fixing in terms of the bets placed Hell if I was a betting man I would have bet on Dark and I had no idea about San's shoulder and wrist issues. It's more likely that info like that would be mentioned in Korean media and if the betting site has a large Korean consumer base then there you go. PL lineups are also announced rather late compared to most sc2 match ups (and those in traditional sports. Pinnacle isn't just for exports betting). It's possible that an influx of late bettors who all (wisely) betted on Dark could have caused Pinnacle to question the result. Very difficult to tell without Pinnacle releasing precisely what aroused their suspicion. Either way I don't see any foul play involved except for Zest's vs Creator kek | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
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