Welcome this month's very short edition of the top 50 streamers list.
Due to an error (which was, ultimately, the result of my own stupidity), I lost about half a month's worth of data for the month of August. Which meant that I was unable to create a proper ranking for the month, since it just would not be fair to rank streamers based on incomplete information.
Luckily, I'm not the only one gathering stream viewer data. Thanks to the awesome efforts of Stijn, who helped me out by providing player stream data from his own site, I can at least present the usual player rankings. Thank you Stijn! This wouldn't have been possible without you. Everyone should shower him with gold, or, alternatively, visit his awesome site, http://fuzic.nl/, which is the best site to get live stream viewership information on Starcraft 2 streams. Seriously, go visit that site.
Unfortunately, due to the aforementioned stupidity of me, there will be no graphs for overall viewership and event viewership this month. However, you can visit http://fuzic.nl/ for up to date viewer data about individual events.
My apologies for the lack of content this month. Next month pretty much everything should be back to normal.
For those of you who don't already know what this is about: I'm gathering various data (viewers, game, events, etc.) from all the streams that are presented on teamliquid.net (those that you can in the sidebar to your right) and use that data to produce the pretty tables and graphs you see below. The tables only contain SC2 players (that is, streams of people playing games of Starcraft 2) and not casters, teams or other streams. The tables also only contain Starcraft 2 related activities. So, for instance when CatZ is streaming Dota2, it will not be taken into account.
The data I gather is then turned into the tables you see below. One is sorted by the average viewers, the other is sorted by the average viewers times the hours streamed. The latter table favors those that stream a lot, while the former table favors popular streamers regardless of how much they stream. Either ranking has its advantages and disadvantages, and thus I present both.
For either table, I have a minimum required stream time of 5 hours to be included in the list.
The list
Due to space limitations, I have to shorten the headers and leave some data out of the tables presented here. You can get the full tables from the links below. The headers aren't as clear as I'd like them to be thanks to this, so here's a quick explanation, just in case: "Viewers" denotes the average viewers in the given month. "Hours" are the hours played. "Place diff" and "Viewer diff" are the place and viewer differences compared to last month.
Also, the HTML version linked beneath the images has some more information that I had to leave out due to space limitation, most notably the featured status of the players.
Now, Without further ado, here's this month's tables:
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
Some mid-master dude. Very interactive with his stream, an annoying voice however. Lots of people seem to like him, I can't bare to listen for more than a minute.
My man Conti Why remove the graph of the total viewership for personal streams and for tournaments I know it's in a downward trend but it's not a reason to hide it and take it away from us
Also why remove the arrows for the streamers like I want to know without looking at july how many ranks I fell off because of all of my traveling
Thank you so much for your work and being patient with my demands from time to time.
On September 11 2014 06:36 desRow wrote: My man Conti Why remove the graph of the total viewership for personal streams and for tournaments I know it's in a downward trend but it's not a reason to hide it and take it away from us
Also why remove the arrows for the streamers like I want to know without looking at july how many ranks I fell off because of all of my traveling
Thank you so much for your work and being patient with my demands from time to time.
Welcome this month's very short edition of the top 50 streamers list.
Due to an error (which was, ultimately, the result of my own stupidity), I lost about half a month's worth of data for the month of August. Which meant that I was unable to create a proper ranking for the month, since it just would not be fair to rank streamers based on incomplete information.
Luckily, I'm not the only one gathering stream viewer data. Thanks to the awesome efforts of Stijn, who helped me out by providing player stream data from his own site, I can at least present the usual player rankings. Thank you Stijn! This wouldn't have been possible without you. Everyone should shower him with gold, or, alternatively, visit his awesome site, http://fuzic.nl/, which is the best site to get live stream viewership information on Starcraft 2 streams. Seriously, go visit that site.
Unfortunately, due to the aforementioned stupidity of me, there will be no graphs for overall viewership and event viewership this month. However, you can visit http://fuzic.nl/ for up to date viewer data about individual events.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
A guy with viewerbot. Why?
- Everytime sameone write "viewerbot" in the streamchat he instantly ban him - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? - Everytime he does "games with viewers" in the chat channel where they have to meet there are... 3? 4 guys? with 3k viewers... ROFL
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
A guy with viewerbot. Why?
- Everytime sameone write "viewerbot" in the streamchat he instantly ban him - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? - Everytime he does "games with viewers" in the chat channel where they have to meet there are... 3? 4 guys? with 3k viewers... ROFL
Everybody knows it
Thnaks for the explanation! I watched it one time and I couldn't stand it.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
A guy with viewerbot. Why?
- Everytime sameone write "viewerbot" in the streamchat he instantly ban him - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? - Everytime he does "games with viewers" in the chat channel where they have to meet there are... 3? 4 guys? with 3k viewers... ROFL
Everybody knows it
- He also gets 3000 viewers at 3am on a workday when the next highest is Catz with 400. - And the chat is waaaaaaaaaay too "calm" for having 3000 viewers, I see channels with 300 viewers that are more active than his. - Several times through out the night his viewers will drop to 500-700 and then shoot back up to magical 3000 in about 10 minutes.
The part that doens't make sense for Winterstarcraft is that he consistently can get around 3k viewers, but only has 1k Twitter followers. How do you explain that?
On September 11 2014 11:07 Hider wrote: The part that doens't make sense for Winterstarcraft is that he consistently can get around 3k viewers, but only has 1k Twitter followers. How do you explain that?
On September 11 2014 11:07 Hider wrote: The part that doens't make sense for Winterstarcraft is that he consistently can get around 3k viewers, but only has 1k Twitter followers. How do you explain that?
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep, a dead chat, and weird fluctuations of numbers then Im going to be suspicious.
Fair enough. I don't pay much attention to viewbotting or suspicious numbers. I just watch the streams ^^
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
Twitch literally bans/ IP bans people for no reason though, so I wouldn't be surprised if Twitch has banned people for bad reasons.
I hadn't watched a stream on Twitch in over a week because I had been busy with work. Then a few days ago I saw iNcontroL was streaming so I went to go on to his stream to moderate his chat like I usually try to do, and I got an error message saying I was banned from all Twitch streams. With no reason given. I checked their ToS and rules and reasons for banning in general, and nearly all of them are related to being inappropriate on stream or streaming inappropriate content. I've never streamed anything and have never even used my channel. The only times I've ever signed in to my Twitch account is to mod the occasional stream. E-mailed Twitch twice over the past few days... no response. So I can't watch Twitch streams unless they're inset via the TL sidebar, or unless I watch Twitch streams at work/ school. Doesn't work in my house anymore.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
Yeah, I think he's pretty good too. I would assume twitch would do something about him if they thought he was getting viewers in illegitimate ways. Either was, he talks a lot about his strategy mid game and I think that can be nice.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote:
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote:
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote:
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Well this has an been an interesting discussion I see, I dont think Ive ever been called a fanatic on TL before. In 10 minutes Winter should have close to 3000 (2800 at 11:53 est) viewers, although with the Kespa cup that might be off? Go to his chat and see how inactive it is. I dont know how to prove the odd viewing jumps without recording equipment.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
Can be all explained by just people tuning in from their office.
I've watched Winter for over a year and never use his chat. Maybe he just doesn't have trolls who spam the chat with bullshit? I dunno. I was watching Grubby earlier today and his chat was about as active as Winter's (when both are at 3k viewers). Also Winter gets like $7k per month in donations ... how is he doing that if his viewers aren't real?
On September 11 2014 13:34 jtp118 wrote: I've watched Winter for over a year and never use his chat. Maybe he just doesn't have trolls who spam the chat with bullshit? I dunno. I was watching Grubby earlier today and his chat was about as active as Winter's (when both are at 3k viewers). Also Winter gets like $7k per month in donations ... how is he doing that if his viewers aren't real?
he gets $7k per month?
so he makes over $70,000 a year?
isnt that quite a bit more than even progamers make?
On September 11 2014 13:34 jtp118 wrote: I've watched Winter for over a year and never use his chat. Maybe he just doesn't have trolls who spam the chat with bullshit? I dunno. I was watching Grubby earlier today and his chat was about as active as Winter's (when both are at 3k viewers). Also Winter gets like $7k per month in donations ... how is he doing that if his viewers aren't real?
he gets $7k per month?
so he makes over $70,000 a year?
isnt that quite a bit more than even progamers make?
That would be about $84,000 per year, which is more than most college-graduate adults make at their job each year. Citation obviously needed in regards to how much Winter *actually* makes each month though. Could be inconsistent from month to month, or just overall speculation.
EDIT: $84,000 per year is nearly double how much the average starting salary for a college graduate is, too. "The overall average starting salary for Class of 2013 new college graduates currently stands at $45,327, an increase of 2.4 percent over the reported average of $44,259 for Class of 2012 graduates, according to the September 2013 Salary Survey." http://naceweb.org/s09042013/salary-survey-average-starting-class-2013.aspx
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
[...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
This guy is so ugly that he doesn't stop viewbot during one of the most important event in the year. Zero passion for him.
Obviosly also the donations are fake. I'm imaging when he think "mmmh... Ok... No real viewers today... Ok! Let's give myself same fake moneys and I'll be a cool player!"
I'm thinking that because of the WEC, I might be in the top 50 for September unless I am somehow "phased out" (I am not a featured streamer, after all).
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
WTF are you even trying to say with these pictures? I guess Kespa Cup does viewbot like crazy too then? You are absolutely ridiculous, pls answer my question (cause you ignored it the last few times): Why didn't he get banned yet?
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
This guy is so ugly that he doesn't stop viewbot during one of the most important event in the year. Zero passion for him.
Obviosly also the donations are fake. I'm imaging when he think "mmmh... Ok... No real viewers today... Ok! Let's give myself same fake moneys and I'll be a cool player!"
...
Yes i am sure he fakes them, that makes perfectly sense to me. Obviously he doesn't need real money to support himself now that he afaik streams fulltime.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I may have misinterpreted your message, but I do get dozens of messages every day claiming the random drops in viewer counts that happen across twitch are indication of bots on my channel instead of twitch being twitch on every channel, and was unfairly biased by the volume of those complaints, I apologize.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I may have misinterpreted your message, but I do get dozens of messages every day claiming the random drops in viewer counts that happen across twitch are indication of bots on my channel instead of twitch being twitch on every channel, and was unfairly biased by the volume of those complaints, I apologize.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I think he's just replying to the general dialogue. It's pretty obvious who his response is aimed at, based on context.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I think he's just replying to the general dialogue. It's pretty obvious who his response is aimed at, based on context.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
For me this is a mystery. This guy isn't highly ranked (I think he is plat or gold ?), he isn't that much entertaining neither (Grubby for instance is better), he isn't someone who was notorious before (as it would be the case for a caster for instance). So why does he have so many viewers ? Just wondering...
EDIT: didn't see this thread was already talking about that. Nothing against u Winter, just surprised as much as many others here who know the players and the tournaments. It's more than 30% viewers who prefer your stream to PL for instance.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
On September 11 2014 20:28 BreAKerTV wrote: I'm thinking that because of the WEC, I might be in the top 50 for September unless I am somehow "phased out" (I am not a featured streamer, after all).
The lists only show player streams, not casters or tournaments, since the viewer numbers for the latter vary wildly based on what tournaments are being played and thus it's not quite ideal to compare those month to month.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
Well at least this doesn't hurt and I am thankful for that promotion. Cannot comment on the rest, I am still surprised of all those viewers you get but I guess I m just not able to see how nice your stream is.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
I am going against every principle I've held for the past two year replying to this, but this is TeamLiquid, not reddit, so I have to respect that. I hold the people who watch my stream to my principles. Kappa spam is banned(sorry nathanias). Avilo is a banned word, (not sorry avilo), you cannot debate futle balance complaints, you cannot debate irrelevant political issues or you will be timeouted/banned by my trusted mods of several years. I want a chat where someone with a legitimate question about sc2 can ask that question without being either drowned out or strangled by your average twitch chatter, and i am HAPPY that the average twitch chatter is angry about everything surrounding my stream, because that means it is effective.
EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
Definitely this. Many persons like me may be surprised or even suspicious but anyway this is probably not gonna get resolved so I guess this discussion should end. GLHF Winter.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
Most streamers who gain their views through being entertaining (as in not being professional players) do seem to have much more active chat communities. For example, QueenE usually has maybe 1/10th to 1/5th of the viewers that Winter has, yet her chat is always a lot more active.
EDIT:
And in counter to the above, it isn't more active because of Kappa spam or other such BS.
I had more active chatters at 200-500 viewers as well, people feel as if they are more interactive, more noticeable, more enticing. That is something I legitimately miss. The only reasons I still stream on twitch was the partnership offer they proposed to me after switching to hitbox.tv.
I was legitimately switching to hitbox, and taking 500+ viewers with me(more than the vast majority of english streams on hitbox), and twitch contacted me about retaining those viewers. I chose to add front page twitch time to promoting starcraft, and I still stand true to promoting that. That is the vast majority of my purpose on twitch atm. I think at that moment I decided I would no longer intend to strive for pro level but strive to demonstrate the skills of those at a top pro level, and I still want to do that, and that's why I dedicate literally every waking hour to streaming or something surrounding it(and sometimes dreaming about sc2 while sleeping, I literally can't help it it is terrible.).
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
I am going against every principle I've held for the past two year replying to this, but this is TeamLiquid, not reddit, so I have to respect that. I hold the people who watch my stream to my principles. Kappa spam is banned(sorry nathanias). Avilo is a banned word, (not sorry avilo), you cannot debate futle balance complaints, you cannot debate irrelevant political issues or you will be timeouted/banned by my trusted mods of several years. I want a chat where someone with a legitimate question about sc2 can ask that question without being either drowned out or strangled by your average twitch chatter, and i am HAPPY that the average twitch chatter is angry about everything surrounding my stream, because that means it is effective.
EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
On September 11 2014 11:07 Hider wrote: The part that doens't make sense for Winterstarcraft is that he consistently can get around 3k viewers, but only has 1k Twitter followers. How do you explain that?
He doesn't push it?
Eh? He is pretty active on twitter, thus it seems he would like to have more followers. As a comparison Avilo has 2k followers. If you consistnely have so many viewers as WintherStarcraft has that just automatically watches his stream, then it's rreally unlikely you wuoldn't also have more followers on twitter.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many followers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
If we look at Avilo's rise from being a relatively unknown streamer, his road to "success" was very slow and gradual. Wintherstarcraft followed almost the same path, but then he just suddenly went from 500 to 2.5k in 2 weeks or so. As a comparison gained much less when he became featured (as I remember it, it was definitely less than a 50% increase in the 2-3 weeks after he became featured).
Well I guess in the end what counts is that Twitch investigated the thing and they saw nothing out of the ordinary (and featured Winter on the front page, too). I suppose that "viewbots" would be easy enough for Twitch to detect, right?
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
Huk has I think 41k followers on twitter but only gets like 400 viewers when he streams.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
See when i read your post i can see that you basically say: "hell he doesn't really deserve it, so he has to viewbot". I also don't quite understand what you say about twitter. Winter has 2.5k followers. If you look at the number of tweets avilo has 5 times as much, so he pushed it a lot more than winter did (maybe he started recently, i have no idea) If "twitch doesn't care" is your best answer, well ... As i said, the "haters" think he doesn't deserve it, then they search for anything that supports their claim even in the slightest way, it is kinda sad tbh. Did Avilo ever cast dreamhack? Cause winter did, that was the first time he got over 1k viewers as far as i remember.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
Huk has I think 41k followers on twitter but only gets like 400 viewers when he streams.
Yeah he obviously has bought the twitter followers, if we compare these two metrics, meh.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
the fact that he has 10k people blocked means absolutely nothing because its perfectly logical to assume that huge percentages of those people are one-time trolls who see him at the top of the list (which could be due to viewbotting or hearing rumors of viewbotting) and come in to talk shit, then never even click the stream
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
Huk has I think 41k followers on twitter but only gets like 400 viewers when he streams.
That was why I compared him to Avilo, because Huk, Incontrol, Nathanias etc. aren't comparable to Wintherstarcraft for a couple of reasons.
Avilo and Wintherstarcraft are comparable in the sense that they were "nobody's" for a while and then rose to become popular streamers at roughly the same time.
My bet is that followers on twitters consist of "core viewer numbers + people he used to be interested in the guy from years ago + "people that nterested in him for other reasons than watching his stream".
Given the above formula, I wouldn't expect Wintherstarcraft to have lots of followers (so not comprable to Huk who previously was a much bigger name), however, he should have at least 2-3K followers since he has at least that many in core viewers.
EDIT: So apparently Wintherstarcraft has 2 twitter accounts? One with 1k and another with 2.5k.
On September 11 2014 22:33 brickrd wrote: yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
Maybe his audience and the TL crowd just don't overlap. There's lots of casual SC2 fans that don't check threads like this. TL visitors are generally speaking more interested in competitive players and tournament-level players, both things that Winter explicitly isn't (and doesn't aspire to be).
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
Huk has I think 41k followers on twitter but only gets like 400 viewers when he streams.
That was why I compared him to Avilo, because Huk, Incontrol, Nathanias etc. aren't comparable to Wintherstarcraft for a couple of reasons.
Avilo and Wintherstarcraft are comparable in the sense that they were "nobody's" for a while and then rose to become popular streamers at roughly the same time.
My bet is that followers on twitters consist of "core viewer numbers + people he used to be interested in the guy from years ago + "people that nterested in him for other reasons than watching his stream".
Given the above formula, I wouldn't expect Wintherstarcraft to have lots of followers (so not comprable to Huk who previously was a much bigger name), however, he should have at least 2-3K followers since he has at least that many in core viewers.
On September 11 2014 22:33 brickrd wrote: yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
Maybe his audience and the TL crowd just don't overlap. There's lots of casual SC2 fans that don't check threads like this.
im not sure i really believe that there are "lots of casual sc2 fans" who watch/sub to streams but dont know about TL or wouldnt have any idea of the rumors or turn up to defend him. whoever these people are they would have to know about the accusations and more than like 1 or 2 people would be defending him whenever this topic comes up. even on the battle.net forums which are comparatively super casual and super low league i see people saying the same things: "who?"/"viewbotter"
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many viewers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
what? I don't understand what you mean tbh ^^ Idc about all that tbh, but (again...) why would twitch not ban him? If you can answer that with something plausible then we can discuss this "objectively"
Should be pretty obvious that I meant twice as many twitter followers^^
I have no idea about Twitch policy, but I guess this doesn't hurt them in anyway, so they may not care - who knows. But rather, what makes sense to me is looking at metrics such as chat activity and twitter followers which you would expect has a very high correlation with viewer numbers and comparing them to other streamers. Since these metrics would predict viewer numbers closer to 500, it IMO seems very likely that that's what's his fair viewer count should be.
On top of that, you see his volatile viewer count as someone outlined previosuly, and then there is also the question on why his stream ever should be so popular in the first place given the quality of his stream. As Incontrol pointed out on Unfiltered, it seems weird he should be so popular in the first place. Yes as Destiny answered he is a decent player and talks about, advertisies it a lot, which I guess could explain why he has 500 viewers. However, if you look at anyone having a viewer count above 500, they can do more than just talking. Streamers like Maximumblack and Destiny were "interesting in different ways", and the latter always had a higher quality. Everyone else have been at least GM while combining it with being famous for different reasons.
I think Wintherstarcaft is the first master-league streamer who has been able to onsistently get above 500 viewers. Not that it's theroetically impossible to get that many viewers, however he doesn't just get slightly above 500, but around 4-5 times more than that. Moreover when his viewer count cannot be explained by looking at any other metrics as well, it seems much more likely that he doesn't actually have 2-3k viewers.
Huk has I think 41k followers on twitter but only gets like 400 viewers when he streams.
That was why I compared him to Avilo, because Huk, Incontrol, Nathanias etc. aren't comparable to Wintherstarcraft for a couple of reasons.
Avilo and Wintherstarcraft are comparable in the sense that they were "nobody's" for a while and then rose to become popular streamers at roughly the same time.
My bet is that followers on twitters consist of "core viewer numbers + people he used to be interested in the guy from years ago + "people that nterested in him for other reasons than watching his stream".
Given the above formula, I wouldn't expect Wintherstarcraft to have lots of followers (so not comprable to Huk who previously was a much bigger name), however, he should have at least 2-3K followers since he has at least that many in core viewers.
EDIT: So apparently Wintherstarcraft has 2 twitter accounts? One with 1k and another with 2.2k.
The correlation between viewer numbers and twitter followers is absolutely meaningless. Maybe Winter doesn't advertise his Twitter as agressively as other people, maybe it's just a less interesting twitter account, maybe he changed Twitter accounts a while back (I think he did, actually), maybe a fairy did it. There's so many unknown variables in that equation that claiming that Winter's viewer average is not legit because he doesn't have enough Twitter followers is pretty ridiculous.
On September 11 2014 22:33 brickrd wrote: yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
Maybe his audience and the TL crowd just don't overlap. There's lots of casual SC2 fans that don't check threads like this.
im not sure i really believe that there are "lots of casual sc2 fans" who watch/sub to streams but dont know about TL or wouldnt have any idea of the rumors or turn up to defend him. whoever these people are they would have to know about the accusations and more than like 1 or 2 people would be defending him whenever this topic comes up. even on the battle.net forums which are comparatively super casual and super low league i see people saying the same things: "who?"/"viewbotter"
Maybe they are just more intelligent than me and don't waste their time with people like you. I should do the same tbh, but hey i just can't stand this bs.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
On September 11 2014 22:33 brickrd wrote: yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
Maybe his audience and the TL crowd just don't overlap. There's lots of casual SC2 fans that don't check threads like this.
im not sure i really believe that there are "lots of casual sc2 fans" who watch/sub to streams but dont know about TL or wouldnt have any idea of the rumors or turn up to defend him. whoever these people are they would have to know about the accusations and more than like 1 or 2 people would be defending him whenever this topic comes up. even on the battle.net forums which are comparatively super casual and super low league i see people saying the same things: "who?"/"viewbotter"
Maybe they are just more intelligent than me and don't waste their time with people like you. I should do the same tbh, but hey i just can't stand this bs.
i didn't know occam's razor was considered "unintelligent," did i miss that memo? it requires far more mental gymnastics and random assumptions to think that there is a secret cabal of fans for this dude - who even describes himself as not that interesting or relevant - bigger than the amount of people who watch stephano stream yet don't post on TL or battle.net or anywhere visible to the community.
its hilarious that youre getting so mad at me considering i dont even care if he viewbots and have no personal stake in this. im sure hes a nice dude, he seems alright from his posts, but being nice doesnt mean he doesnt do it. ^"anti winter fanatics" rofl you sound kind of deluded, like a conspiracy theorist. reminds me of when avilo said there is literally an "esports illuminati" out to get him
On September 11 2014 22:33 brickrd wrote: yea i dont know much about him or have any particular opinion but i would think that if there were really something so special about him that he gets so many viewers there would be huge amounts of people in this thread/in the community constantly turning out to defend him and talk about why he's great to watch and why he's legit. if he's actually so popular that he gets several times the viewers of some of the most popular foreign stars/kespa players, who have tons of fans on TL, he would have tons MORE fans on TL, but the overwhelming attitudes are either "who?" or "oh, that viewbot guy." it's just simple logic... i mean i dont care to trash the guy and honestly i dont even care if he viewbots but it is so absolutely bizarre that the burden of proof really is on him
Maybe his audience and the TL crowd just don't overlap. There's lots of casual SC2 fans that don't check threads like this.
im not sure i really believe that there are "lots of casual sc2 fans" who watch/sub to streams but dont know about TL or wouldnt have any idea of the rumors or turn up to defend him. whoever these people are they would have to know about the accusations and more than like 1 or 2 people would be defending him whenever this topic comes up. even on the battle.net forums which are comparatively super casual and super low league i see people saying the same things: "who?"/"viewbotter"
Maybe they are just more intelligent than me and don't waste their time with people like you. I should do the same tbh, but hey i just can't stand this bs.
i didn't know occam's razor was considered "unintelligent," did i miss that memo? it requires far more mental gymnastics and random assumptions to think that there is a secret cabal of fans for this dude - who even describes himself as not that interesting or relevant - bigger than the amount of people who watch stephano stream yet don't post on TL or battle.net or anywhere visible to the community.
its hilarious that youre getting so mad at me considering i dont even care if he viewbots and have no personal stake in this. im sure hes a nice dude, he seems alright from his posts, but being nice doesnt mean he doesnt do it. ^"anti winter fanatics" rofl you sound kind of deluded.
No you need more assumptions to say he does viewbot. As i said several times before: Why doesn't twitch ban him. Now try to answer that question with the least amount of assumptions, huh, well he doesn't viewbot i guess. qed.
Twitter followers has less to do win streaming numbers than Huks streaming being boring as shit and he doesn't do it that often. You can often tune into an empty chair with him. Both Avilo and incontrol at least try to entertain their viewers. People tryin to find connections between twitter and stream numbers might find some correlation, but that doesn't not lead to causation.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2.1k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you? Compare twitter to twitch all you want, this is absolutely worthless and you probably even know it. I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you?
Pretty sick strawman right there. Well I merely stated that no single master league player has ever had more than 500viewers by just not being good at talking. Players like Destiny and Maximumblack have done "crazy" stuff. However, obviously there is no "law" that states that must be the case, but when you look at an outlier (which Winterstarcraft) is in this regard, and you on top of that also see that he is an outlier in other ways as well, you begin to ask quesiton about the validity of his viewer count.
Compare twitter to twitch all you want, this is absolutely worthless and you probably even know it.
Eh I don't think it's worhtless. It's a pretty strong indicator of popularity.
I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
That you are almost sure about that says a lot about your judgement. I never commented on Winther before yesterday really, and I wanted to see whether there were reasons to expect that he manipulated viewer counts so I checked his twitter account. Based on that, it's my assesment (given all the other facts) that it's very likely that viewer-botting is occuring.
Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
Yeh I looked into the wrong twitter account I guess. He has two accounts, one with 1k and another with 2.5k. It's still at the lowest end of what you would expect,and when you combine it his huge activity on Twitter, you would expect him to be somewhat above the minimum threshold (I guess in the range of 4-8k).
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
No I am just looking objetively at the numbers and the facts, I don't care at all about Winterstarcraft. Unilke you it seems I am not bias'ed here and thus my emotions do not affect the assesment.
If you reread my post you will see that my argument is consistent. 1k followers obviously made no sense at all when the absolute minimum value was 2-3k. Given that he has 2.5k followers, twitter followers are not completley out in line what you would expect, but is still somewhat below what you would expect.
IF we use the Avilo-comparison which I originally set up, you will see that Avilo has 2k followers on Twitters and Winterstarcraft has 2.5k. Wintherstarcraft however has 3.5 times higher average viewer numbers. Thus, you would predict closer to 8K followers on twitters. Now obviously they aren't 100% comparable becasue you will see some extra guys just following Avilo so they can see him whine. However, given Winterstarcraft's overall activity on twitter, his twitter product seems relatively attractive relative to his stream quality. So you wouldn't expect that his ratio of Twitter followers/stream viewers be so low that it is.
I challenge you to find other comparable streamers could be any game) which has a lower ratio of Twitter followers/average viewer count while maintaining a very active twitter account.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you? Compare twitter to twitch all you want, this is absolutely worthless and you probably even know it. I am almost sure if winter would have these 8k followers and i would use that as an argument you would say: "well twitter followers can be bought too" and you wouldn't even be wrong. This is such a fucking stupid argument, i can't believe it comes from you tbh, i always thought you are better than that.
Yeah you are objective. I see. You only say in your posts he doesn't deserve it pretty much. How objective can that even be i have to ask you?
Pretty sick strawman right there. Well I merely stated that no single master league player has ever had more than 500viewers by just not being good at talking. Players like Destiny and Maximumblack have done "crazy" stuff. However, obviously there is no "law" that states that must be the case, but when you look at an outlier (which Winterstarcraft) is in this regard, and you on top of that also see that he is an outlier in other ways as well, you begin to ask quesiton about the validity of his viewer count.
There are several other streamer in other games who are not at the highest lvl either. People seem to think that being good at the game means you have a high viewer count. That isn't true though, you have to be good at streaming and winter is pretty good at it.
On September 11 2014 23:06 Plansix wrote: Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
I only know him from starbow tbh, he seems quite reasonable there, at least what i have seen so far. Maybe i was wrong though.
That you are almost sure about that says a lot about your judgement. I never commented on Winther before yesterday really, and I wanted to see whether there were reasons to expect that he manipulated viewer counts so I checked his twitter account. Based on that, it's my assesment (given all the other facts) that it's very likely that viewer-botting is occuring.
On September 11 2014 23:06 Plansix wrote: Didn't you know that Hider is the most objective and logical poster on TL? You know this because he says it over and over when he puts forth his arguments. He also points out how not objective you are so you know that any evidence you provide is bias.
Because is you say something enough times, it becomes fact.
I think that was uncalled before. I agree I might have commented the wrong way before, but we talked about that and I think I changed my attitude. What I wrote here was a response to this:
Oh so now you double your prediction cause your first one doesn't please you anymore. Yeah whatever man, as i said before, such a waste of time to argue with these anti winter fanatics. See you in another thread.
He accused me of being bias'ed/fantatic, when I only based the assesment on numbers and a combination of different "facts/judgements". I never said "twitter doesn't make sense, therefore he viewbots". Rather, the numbers didn't make sense in multiple ways. It's not me starting to go into the whole objectivity discussion in the first place.
I only know him from starbow tbh, he seems quite reasonable there, at least what i have seen so far. Maybe i was wrong though.
Your welcome to go through my posting history over the last couple of months. If you find somewhere wher you think I am unreasonable or signifciantly bias'ed, please let me know. What I think you are more likely to find is me giving credit to both sides of the argument.
Twitter followers has less to do win streaming numbers than Huks streaming being boring as !@#$%^&* and he doesn't do it that often. You can often tune into an empty chair with him. Both Avilo and incontrol at least try to entertain their viewers. People tryin to find connections between twitter and stream numbers might find some correlation, but that doesn't not lead to causation.
Yeh, that's why we need to use comparable examples. I believe Avilo and Wintherstarcraft are roughly comparable as they talk alot and rose to popularity at the same time. The differ in regards to mentality on balance ofc, and I guess too some extent that could explain the discrepencay in twitter-popularity (it's not impossible at least). However, given all the way other ways Winterstarcrafts viewer numbers seems to make little sense, I think it's more likely his true viewer count is much lower than 2k.
I just get tired of the lazy argument style of "I'm logical and unbiased, unlike you." It's just such a fucking shit way to have a discussion, dripping with the intent to be passive agressive, but always being able to fall back on being the "rational, non emotional" party in the discussion. It's a style a lot of people on TL like to use to get an edge in their arguments.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
On September 11 2014 23:13 Plansix wrote: I just get tired of the lazy argument style of "I'm logical and unbiased, unlike you." It's just such a fucking !@#$%^&* way to have a discussion, dripping with the intent to be passive agressive, but always being able to fall back on being the "rational, non emotional" party in the discussion. It's a style a lot of people on TL like to use to get an edge in their arguments.
I agree with you actually - Typically everyone thinks they are being the logical/objective ones, and usually I try and let my arguments stand for them selves, and I don't think I said "i am objective/logical" before in the 1k posts or so (don't remember last time at least). But this was a response to me him claining I was a Winter-antifanitic. Given the arguments I presented, did I seem like an antifantic to you? Anti-fantic to me would be someone that said "Winter is a bad streamer, thus he viewbots".
Given what he said there, would you admit it was a bit unfair that you called me here as I was more responding to his accusations of me being a Winter-antifanatic?
I pointed that out earlier, but people seem set on assigning meaning it whatever flawed data they have available to prove their point.
Yeh once again I agree here, we see this way too much on the forum. But that was also why I spend a bit of time looking at some of the numbers and dismissed the cases where they obviously weren't comparable. For instance, Destiny, Huk, Incontrol or Nathanias have higher followers for different reasons. The best comparision I could come up with was Avilo, but you also saw a brief discussion of what could explain the potential differences, and ofc twitter-followers can never be used as a proof of anything in it self, but rather as an indicator, and when multiple indicators points to the same thing, it seems plausible that the indicators could be on to something.
On September 11 2014 21:39 WinterStarcraft wrote: EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
Could you prove this? I mean, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to ban 10k people in your chat if you're viewbotting. So, strangely enough, this seems like one of the strongest arguments against the accusations so far.
It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
On September 11 2014 23:29 Plansix wrote: It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
Well if it's irrelevant, then please don't go into that type of debate where you make it personal. Rather focus on the ball instead of the man. The ball here would be the "quality of data" and not whether I made a couple of comments which you didn't like, and thus feel the need to haunt me for the rest of my life.
Regarding data. To me it seems you then would argue twitter numbers for every single other streamer are inflated and that Winterstarcrafts twitterfollowers are uninflated. I see this in a different way: If twitter-followers for most players make sense based on a couple of metrics such as:
and we then have one guy where we cannot explain his twitter-follower at all based on the above metrics, then it does raise suspicion. Ofc it's just possible that there are other metrics which impact twitter-followers, and if there were no other reasons to suspect anything, I would be inclined to think that was the case (thus I wouldn't think about view-bots). But when the "twitter"-story is just another situation where the 2k+-viewer story doesn't make sense, I am more inclined to think the latter is the case.
I guess the difference here between you and I is that I don't see data as useless, but rather I see interpreting data "correctly" as something that is very challenging and easily can be manipulated. But if that's the case, then it should be very easy to specifiy where the data is being manipulated or how it's uncomparable.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
Agree, but - as should be clear now - that has never been my argument. Rather, my argument has been that he is an outlier in multipliple ways. For instance, chat inactivity, huge voliatility in stream viewers, much more viewers than any other master-league player without being "crazy/funny". When looking at these outliers on a stand-alone-basis they do not proove anything by them selves, but when you add them all up, it makes it alot more suspecicious.
No, I argued that correlation doesn't not mean causation and never has. And I choose not to have an opinion without sifficent data, which is not available in this case.
It's worth linking this again. Someone has taken the time to compare chat activity of Winter's twitch channel and various other streamers'. The TL;DR version is that there was nothing suspicious going on, compared to other streams with similar numbers of viewers.
The data is out there, anyone can gather viewer numbers, chat size, chat activity and other metrics. If Winter's chat is that empty compared to other chats, then this can be proven with the available data. So far, everyone who has actually had a look at the data did not find anything suspicious.
On September 11 2014 23:29 Plansix wrote: It is irrelevant who is more or less bias in the discussion, all your data sucks. Twitch and twitter number can be inflated and it is impossible to tell the reason why people watch a thing through looking at such a limited data set.
Well if it's irrelevant, then please don't go into that type of debate where you make it personal. Rather focus on the ball instead of the man. The ball here would be the "quality of data" and not whether I made a couple of comments which you didn't like, and thus feel the need to haunt me for the rest of my life.
Regarding data. To me it seems you then would argue twitter numbers for every single other streamer are inflated and that Winterstarcrafts twitterfollowers are uninflated. I see this in a different way: If twitter-followers for most players make sense based on a couple of metrics such as:
and we then have one guy where we cannot explain his twitter-follower at all based on the above metrics, then it does raise suspicion. Ofc it's just possible that there are other metrics which impact twitter-followers, and if there were no other reasons to suspect anything, I would be inclined to think that was the case (thus I wouldn't think about view-bots). But when the "twitter"-story is just another situation where the 2k+-viewer story doesn't make sense, I am more inclined to think the latter is the case.
I guess the difference here between you and I is that I don't see data as useless, but rather I see interpreting data "correctly" as something that is very challenging and easily can be manipulated. But if that's the case, then it should be very easy to specifiy where the data is being manipulated or how it's uncomparable.
The rational and unbiased thing to do here would be to acknowledge that while Winter is an outlier with regards to overall popularity vs. viewer numbers, there's no way to conclude from that fact that his viewer numbers are artificially inflated. Twitter followers are loosely correlated at best and certainly not a metric to draw solid conclusions from.
Agree, but - as should be clear now - that has never been my argument. Rather, my argument has been that he is an outlier in multipliple ways. For instance, chat inactivity, huge voliatility in stream viewers, much more viewers than any other master-league player without being "crazy/funny". When looking at these outliers on a stand-alone-basis they do not proove anything by them selves, but when you add them all up, it makes it alot more suspecicious.
You say that as if it would be a fact noone could argue and then wonder why people call you out when you say you are the "objective" one. Crazy really.
huge voliatility in stream viewers
If you talk about the two pictures posted a few pages ago, well then the Kespa Cup had to viewbot as well i guess. These "huge differences in viewer numbers" in a short amount of time happens a lot on twitch
chat inactivity
Ok that is a "fair" point i guess, but as winter stated his chat has pretty strict rules, that could be a reason. Also there could be people not interested in the twitch chat in the first place. There is also a reddit thread from darkautumn i think that was his name?) where he compares winter's chat to other chats and comes to the conclusion that it isn't really suspicious.
Also you guys keep ignoring twitch in all of that (well you said they seem to ignore his viewbotting, so you basically say twitch is ok with faking numbers cause it helps them)
You say that as if it would be a fact noone could argue and then wonder why people call you out when you say you are the "objective" one. Crazy really.
Previously I got annoyed when people just put out random statements without any arguments. I have always liked the discussions for the sake of putting up arguments rather than putting up random opinions, but I realized that people are different, and I think I am (a bit) better at respecting that today. I still get annoyed over one-liners, but I am better at ignoring them today. However, the discussion we have had had nothing to do with this, but Plansix apparently apparently still feel the to tell everyone how I am based based on a couple of comments 2 years ago. Anyway, let's ignore personal comments (such as bias, objectivism, fantaticsm) and focus on the ball, ok?
I agree that it would be dumb to say that because you act normal and polite as Winter then it would be impossible to generate 500+ viewers. That's not my point at all, but rather my point is that that it doesn't appear as if he is differentiating him self very much. At least by enough to gain 2k+viewers. Historically all other streamers that rose to popularity without being that good at the game were kinda "crazy", such as Avilo, Destiny, Maximumsblack.
As an analogy, say you operate a business which offers a product in a very competitive environment, and your product isn't noticeable different from that of your competitors. Then you should expect to charge roughly the same price as your competitors. If for some reason you can charge 5 times more, then it raises a bit of suspicion. That's why you see a lot of people say they don't understand how he has that many viewers, becasue - besides talking a good amount - he doesn't differentiates him self that much. It's easy to explain Avilo's numbers: "He is whiny and plays a different-playstyle and is probabyly one of the best players that plays that platystyle". However, what is Winterstarcraft's story? Just talking a lot during games doesn't seem convcing to me.
But obviously, please acknowledge that I never used this argument to proof anything strongly as it's just based on very few comparisons. It's just one little thing that seems a bit weird.
There is also a reddit thread from darkautumn i think that was his name?) where he compares winter's chat to other chats and comes to the conclusion that it isn't really suspicious.
I remember reading that thread as well, and after that I remembered thinking that he probably didn't viewbot, but at the same time I wasn't convinced that his methodlogy was 100% "sound". But back then I wasn't that interested in him, so I didn't spent enough time thinking about it though. Would you mind linking me to it? I definitely favor someone that attempts to "quantify" chat activity, rather than based on 1-2 screenshots, so I would be willing to revisit my judgement if data indicated that viewer numbers were justified.
Also you guys keep ignoring twitch in all of that (well you said they seem to ignore his viewbotting, so you basically say twitch is ok with faking numbers cause it helps them)
I think in the end of the day, it comes down to whether all of the other arguments (combined) makes it more likely that he is viewbotting than that Twitch.Tv would ban players that viewbotted. I am no real expert in Twitch, and thus I have a very difficult time coming up with a probability for the latter. It could be 10% for what I know. But ofc if you could find numerious cass of people which have been banned for viewbotting and WinterStarcraft didn't, then I would also be willing to revisit my arguments. Really I didn't have any opinion on Winterstarcraft before yesterday, I just thought the whole viewbotting-thing was a bit funny. But I also got annoyed when people refered to Winterstarcraft "admittely" saying he was viewbotting, because that was taken the comment completley out of context.
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
I actually don't know if twitch bans people cause of viewbotting, i made the assumption cause it would make sense. Maybe i was a little bit harsh with you overall, i am sorry for that, but i think this "witchhunt" has to stop and as you said people referring to "his admit of viewbotting" take his statement completely out of context, BUT it helps to spread it even more, like any "gossip".
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
Well I don't think it's ridiclous to make that argument in the first place if its something that is generally agreed upon. Like you would argue that someone like Huk/many koreans have pretty boring streams right? Given that, I think we can make a connection between stream succes and personality.
But I will admit, that I very well could be wrong on Winterstarcrafts, and that there could be reasons to like his stream based on his personality. Would you mind elaboring a bit on where you think his persoantlity stands out from other streamers?
Given that he interacts a lot with his viewers, I would expect a pretty high activity in chat. Avilo has over twice as many chat messages/viewer number, but I guess (partially) that could be explained by more whining in chat/less restrict moderators (though on the other hand I heard people that criticize Avilo also get banned).
Incontrol has around 20% more, which is somewhat closer - Overall, Winterstarcraft has the lowest activity of foreign streams.
Given these data, I believe it's highly unlikely that 75%+ of his viewer numbers come from bots - he definitely has a solid little core, but there is no support in the data that the majority of his viewers aren't bots.
That said, I think that after rereading the thread - that there is not enough support for the accusations. He simply isn't a big enough outlier, so while I will remain a bit suspricious, I think I end the discusison here.
I am just saying that "he isn't funny/special/whatever" is extremely subjective and thus completely ridiculous to argue about. It also differs from time to time, there are a few commands in his chat which will show you some "crazy" winter reactions.
Well I don't think it's ridiclous to make that argument in the first place if its something that is generally agreed upon. Like you would argue that someone like Huk/many koreans have pretty boring streams right? Given that, I think we can make a connection between stream succes and personality.
But I will admit, that I very well could be wrong on Winterstarcrafts, and that there could be reasons to like his stream based on his personality. Would you mind elaboring a bit on where you think his persoantlity stands out from other streamers?
Well agreed on by whom? I have no idea about huk, but when we look at koreans streaming, they simply don't interect at all (there are exceptions maybe, but generally speaking), obviously they play better, but that doesn't seem to be important these days.
Well he talks a lot (and by a lot i mean without any pause tbh), people seem to like that. Give me one streamer who does that too. Also his stream overall is pretty legit (sounds for donations,subscribers, etc), he does master games, has a winter weekly going on (for bronze to gold), does bronze to masters, trollgames (like playing with his VOICE only). Just a lot of different things really. He also is very consistens with his streaming time and he streams a lot which helps too. This whole package seems to be interesting for a lot of people, even if you personally think it isn't.
Regarding "crazy" things, below is an example, and Destiny has a lot more than that. While I never really watched Destiny stream, his viewer-numbers were always kinda self-exaplantory given how much some people expressed their entertainment and how much he overall was hyped.
It did get me thinking though. Dragon also always had solid viewernumbers without actually being able to talk english, but made "dumb" trollgames and annoying sounds which some people found funny. I guess in that context, it makes sense that you can get good viewernumbers as long as your just really good at one thing (for instance best at talking/explaining during games). But I think intuitively I associate succesful "streamer personality" with someone that goes to the top of reddit because of funny stuff he did during his stream, and that's why I have had trouble seeing Winterstarcraft as the most popular streamer.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
I stream more than you. I have played this game LONGER than you, and you are telling me that twich has given you a " premium partnership? "
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
I stream more than you. I have played this game LONGER than you, and you are telling me that twich has given you a " premium partnership? "
Provide the proof.
lol someone's oblivious... you need close to 1million viewer hour to get twitch premium, at least above 500k so according to your stats in august you just have to stream 2 740 hours in a month and they'll give you a premium partnership RIP in pieces
Why should either of those factors matter if his stream has proven to be more popular than yours? The fact that people are streaming the same game doesn't mean their respective content has to be identical. Seems pretty well documented in the thread that Winter has a particular style that gets viewers.
Heaps of things in the entertainment world seems disproportionately popular to some people - that's down to personal preference. Winter being successful with his streaming doesn't mean other streams aren't entertaining etc, they just might be more niche when it comes down to overall appeal.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
It's not surprising that TL would be hating on you so much considering this site is what it is. Probably means you're doing something right! Keep up the good work!!
Something doesn't smell right, too good to be true category.
in 3 months period (march-may) the viewers number suddenly got ~4x while all the other prominent streamers viewers numbers remained pretty much the same also the chat, recent first hand experience: very lowly populated ghost town so, what the hell is going on ?!
On September 11 2014 21:39 WinterStarcraft wrote: EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
Could you prove this? I mean, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to ban 10k people in your chat if you're viewbotting. So, strangely enough, this seems like one of the strongest arguments against the accusations so far.
It was an approximation sadly, on twitch you can only see the last 100 people who were banned. These last 100 people banned in the channel were done so between the night of September 5th (starting 6pm) and the night of September 10th (7pm). I can provide screenshots/documentation if it is required, and I would love a full ban list if there is a way to do so on twitch . So about 5 days. In the last 5 days I have streamed about 25 hours(courtesy of fuzic.nl). That is 4 bans/hr (we don't make a habit of permabanning, usually nonspam offenders are timeouted for 8 hours or even several days, permaban is mostly an antispam defense).
In the last 5-6 months since I began averaging 1500+ viewers I have streamed ~1000 hours(not all sc2, but around 90-95%). At 4 bans/hr that would be about 4000 bans. Before that for about 6 months I was averaging around 500 viewers, and while I don't know if the ban rate held true for that timing (honestly it probably didn't but I don't have the stats). That would make another 1125 bans proportionally . Add on the 2500 hours I streamed between 0 average viewers and 500 average and you would have another several thousand bans as well throughout the last few years. Looking at it this way (since I have never done the math before, interesting to look at) I actually have somewhere between 6 and 8000 banned chatters, probably around 7000 in estimation. Once again, if anyone knows how to get a full list I'd be interested.
Overall a lot of people talk about how chat activity is lower than most channels (while mine has proven to be comprable to others, like Stephano), and it is because of such strict moderation. Take away Kappa spam, copypasta, useless arguements about inflammatory topics and see how much is left in ANY twitch chat, and ironically you will find more productive activity in a channel with 300 people than one with 3000. Conti I can provide you with whatever stats on my channel you'd like from my dashboard and such because I respect the work you do every month, but I have already been cleared by Twitch who did a similar look into my channel, my viewers and my history before featuring me on the front page of twitch.tv(which resulted in such a high peak viewer count last month) as well as upgrading my partnership with them.
On September 12 2014 04:49 ProTech wrote: I stream more than you. I have played this game LONGER than you, and you are telling me that twich has given you a " premium partnership? " Provide the proof.
lol, you also have waaaaaaay fewer viewers and are a giant douche, that might be why you didn't get a partnership
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
For me this is a mystery. This guy isn't highly ranked (I think he is plat or gold ?), he isn't that much entertaining neither (Grubby for instance is better), he isn't someone who was notorious before (as it would be the case for a caster for instance). So why does he have so many viewers ? Just wondering...
EDIT: didn't see this thread was already talking about that. Nothing against u Winter, just surprised as much as many others here who know the players and the tournaments. It's more than 30% viewers who prefer your stream to PL for instance.
the top streamer of any blizzard game gets viewbotted (by who? it is a mystery...) but it's most obvious with SC2 and Heroes because they're the least popular.
the Heroes equivalent of Winter is iceboxd, he has 1k+ viewers and a very empty chat, constant viewer interaction for the non-bots as well.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
I stream more than you. I have played this game LONGER than you, and you are telling me that twich has given you a " premium partnership? "
What makes you think that playing the game longer or streaming more frequently automatically earns you a better partnership? Don't you think what should really count is the number of viewers that you bring to Twitch, and whatever else Twitch cares about?
I'd think Twitch would be more interested (financially) in partnering with someone who's extremely popular, rather than someone who's just been chugging along for a long time with far fewer viewers (on average).
And besides, I'm pretty sure Winter has been streaming for over a year, and has been playing since the beginning of WoL (admittedly, [citation needed], although I thought I've heard him say that on stream), so it's not like he's completely brand new when it comes to Twitch or StarCraft.
I still can't quite figure out Winter. I've watched his stream, but there are always better people. Maybe because he spells everything out for the short bus? In 2014, there are better streams to learn.
On September 12 2014 19:44 OveRtheStarS wrote: I still can't quite figure out Winter. I've watched his stream, but there are always better people. Maybe because he spells everything out for the short bus? In 2014, there are better streams to learn.
He (and other posters) explained his situation quite extensively, I think, in this thread. The discussions on previous pages (along with videos and data posted earlier here, e.g., iNcontroL/ Destiny conversation) should make things more clear.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
I am going against every principle I've held for the past two year replying to this, but this is TeamLiquid, not reddit, so I have to respect that. I hold the people who watch my stream to my principles. Kappa spam is banned(sorry nathanias). Avilo is a banned word, (not sorry avilo), you cannot debate futle balance complaints, you cannot debate irrelevant political issues or you will be timeouted/banned by my trusted mods of several years. I want a chat where someone with a legitimate question about sc2 can ask that question without being either drowned out or strangled by your average twitch chatter, and i am HAPPY that the average twitch chatter is angry about everything surrounding my stream, because that means it is effective.
EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
EPT![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/top%2050%202014%2008.png)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IIT9HGW.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xFZggxz.png)
