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Rifkin here, and holy shit this is going to be a long post. I tried to include some pictures for those with no attention span and/or are 12 years old.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q41CvAm.png)
I wanted to write a post about the /Host feature on twitch.tv to share some some information and strategies with it that may benefit you, help grow your channel & overall foster a better environment for SC2 Twitch related content. First I'd like to give a TLDR on what /Hosting another channel does:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JBPoVIg.png)
When you /host someone it places your viewers into ______ person's room (twitch channel) while overlaying your chat on theirs. This can be very beneficial if you want to watch a stream but you know the chat is incredibly toxic, or perhaps on subscriber only mode (WCS, pls).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2T37sUo.png)
Okay, there's a pretty good chance I googled, "Sexy math teacher" just to grab your attention, maybe I should have done that with the water and wet T-shirts... At any rate, it's pretty simple. If you have 50 viewers and you /host someone, they will get a bump of +50 (VIEWBOT ALERT) until those viewers start to leave.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yi9c1Wz.png)
This is pretty self explanatory.
Okay there you have it, pretty complex stuff. Now that you know what hosting is, let's talk about how it's beneficial for everyone (including large organizations such as ESL, Red Bull, WCS etc). To begin with, let's talk about "twitch culture" for a moment, even though it's not embraced by everyone, it is heavily influential on the majority of fans enjoying SC2. I'm not going to lie, a large part of why I'm not more active on TL is because I'm scared that a misplaced "![[image loading]](http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/chansub-global-emoticon-ddc6e3a8732cb50f-25x28.png) " is going to get me in troub-
user has been warned for this post
...Anyways, "Twitch Raids" used to be the only way to send folks from one stream to another (and that is actually a bannable offense nowadays) Some streamers don't like the sudden boost in viewership because it puts a lot of pressure on you to impress a lot of people in a very short time. Make no mistake, hosting is basically this and you can either embrace it or waste it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JngH7hX.png)
Moving on, let's pretend there's 3 camps for a moment all trying to watch the same WCS stream:- "Avilo subs"
- "TL Elites"
- Everyone else
(I picked the names for fun, feel free to flip out about it)
"Avilo subs" start spewing garbage in chat with a bunch of Kappa's and 'PROTOSS IMBARINOS' that the "TL Elites" can't stand it, so they start bickering in chat (as the internet does). This is usually going to lead to some time outs in most streams. (holla @ great mods policing chats)
Going to be honest here, the second I get timed out or banned, I personally stop giving a single fuck about whatever's on the stream and leave.
Now let's rewrite that situation with hosting. Either each respective party has a popular streamer /hosting in advance, so none of the fighting happens in the first place and they can hang out with people of like interests/tastes, or it even happens after people start getting timed out and banned. Either way the stream being hosted benefits by not bleeding out those viewers and still providing entertainment for everyone.
Alternatively too, some streams require facebook logins (not everyone wants to do this) or forced into /sub only mode 24/7 (not everyone can afford or wants to sub) etc etc. There's a lot of ways you can actually use this feature to foster and grow your own chat community, and if there are people who come to hang out in your chat while you are offline (hosting) that just means more people hanging out in your chat while you are online ($$$). These same awesome dudes will help your grow your channel while you are not even around, just by being active in it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hlg12ll.png)
(please no winterXrifkin fanfiction)
Okay this part is all social science mumbo jumbo, so I'm basing all of this off of personal experience. Let's take the point of view of somebody that is not popular. You and your 4 other friends only manage to get like 50-100 viewers while streaming, well if you coordinate somewhat like described above, this means if you take turns each of you could go from not even being in the top 8 SC2 streamers, to perhaps being up in the top 8 and getting an even larger chance to be noticed by new fans, while you all share your current ones. Once there you start coordinating with some others who don't stream at the same time as you, that start when you finish or vice versa and continue to grow more.
One of the first times I tried /hosting somebody was WinterSC, since he had requested it, after I had finished casting a tournament with about 3-4k viewers (side note: hilarious! This single event spurred an entire viewbot dedicated reddit post) This boosted Winter up to his "normal" view count right away on his stream, instead of working towards it over the course of a few hours. A few weeks later he hosted my stream after he had finished broadcasting, which actually placed me over the main stream of the IEM qualifier I was casting at the time. Obviously we both benefited from this 'trade' (he with time saved, me with additional viewers I may not have normally had) and since then we have both been hosting smaller viewed SC2 streams since. At this point it helps get folks with quality streams, such as SuperNova, that don't normally get noticed, well, get noticed, even outside of strictly SC2.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rVoygb7.png)
Often times I have found viewers will begin to bleed out after an hour, because tournament fans are very different than First-Person-POV fans, but if the person being hosted even gains as little as one new follower, it is worth it IMO.
I know there's a ton of legitimate reasons about favouritism among others that I don't agree with, but I wish larger organizations such as WCS would coordinate with someone hosting a quality stream (We'll use Minigun as an example) because while they are offline after wrapping up a group stage cast, if Minigun can draw in & convert some new Starcraft 2 fans, those same fans will eventually make their way back to the WCS stream later in time.
There's no downside to hosting unless you're a greedy, selfish son of a bitch that doesn't want to see others succeed. This isn't some happy hippy post where we should do Arms Across The World, but if more people can get into /hosting, everyone will eventually benefit.
***LAST BUT NOT LEAST, NEVER FORGET TO /UHOST WHEN YOU GO LIVE OR NOBODY CAN WATCH YOUR OWN STREAM :D
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No downside? I think that's still too early to call.
Very well written though, would like to see how it goes.
The concept is pretty cool and thanks for explaining the whole thing 
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On August 19 2014 14:45 ETisME wrote:No downside? I think that's still too early to call. Very well written though, would like to see how it goes. The concept is pretty cool and thanks for explaining the whole thing
ok, in fairness, twitch auto play is irritating
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME
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On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME
Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. 
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Cool thanks, I never knew about this feature with twitch...this is very interesting, also Tenacious D is awesome.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch.
giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.>
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On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.>
KeSPA jail has clearly sapped you of your funny bone Lichter. 
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I completely agree with Rif. With him hosting I've seen a lot of streamers I wouldn't have realized were streaming at the time, I've followed nearly all of them, but Twitch doesn't give me the same announcement, I'm sure it's an option somewhere, but once BaseTradeTV is done, It's awesome that they are awesome to host anyone else!
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On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.>
licther pls - make me wanna use TL more not less
user has used red text in this post
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 19 2014 15:16 BasetradeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> licther pls - make me wanna use TL more not less user has used red text in this post
this is exactly why KBB wants to take away my shiny mod buttons
at least you're on the front page now :p
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On August 19 2014 15:21 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 15:16 BasetradeTV wrote:On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> licther pls - make me wanna use TL more not less user has used red text in this post this is exactly why KBB wants to take away my shiny mod buttons at least you're on the front page now :p
But how can you be in both KeSPA jail and KBB jail at the same time?
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Didn't know about this feature, or possibilities of abuse of this feature, before now. Interesting.
And BasetradeTV don't you think
not embraced by everyone
"TL Elites"
user has been warned for this post /fake warning/
is all a bit much for posting an informative writeup on the site itself? Geez ...
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On August 19 2014 15:21 lichter wrote:this is exactly why KBB wants to take away my shiny mod buttons at least you're on the front page now :p
:O TL rules, culture and modding is one of the most important reason to use it and many find it so appealing as their community site... Hope it will never change.
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I did not mean... to blow your mind...
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On August 19 2014 15:51 Danglars wrote:Didn't know about this feature, or possibilities of abuse of this feature, before now. Interesting. And BasetradeTV don't you think not embraced by everyone"TL Elites" user has been warned for this post /fake warning/ is all a bit much for posting an informative writeup on the site itself? Geez ...
100% of my posts here are on Team Liquid, though. I wouldn't make all of my posts here if I hated it. (This is where I would otherwise insert a grey face)
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On August 19 2014 15:51 Danglars wrote:Didn't know about this feature, or possibilities of abuse of this feature, before now. Interesting. And BasetradeTV don't you think not embraced by everyone"TL Elites" user has been warned for this post /fake warning/ is all a bit much for posting an informative writeup on the site itself? Geez ...
I also hadn't heard of this feature before, but hosting seems pretty cool. Its application to chat is also interesting considering how much of a disaster Twitch chat is from a logistics point of view. The TL jabs were kinda unnecessary, fairly entertaining though they did detract from the main message of the post.
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gosh, Tenacious D. Pure awesomeness. Your visual marketing caught me, I believe in hosting now.
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How would you organize a personal streamer to host during the downtime of a major tournament? Wouldn't you be worried about his/her honesty, and maybe they wouldn't bounce the users back to the WCS stream or whatever, so that they could keep more viewers for ads?
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On August 19 2014 16:19 Pontius Pirate wrote:
How would you organize a personal streamer to host during the downtime of a major tournament? Wouldn't you be worried about his/her honesty, and maybe they wouldn't bounce the users back to the WCS stream or whatever, so that they could keep more viewers for ads?
I think you've confused my point. Here's a proper example:
WCS America stops streaming (ending the stream with 10k viewers)
If, after they are offline and have no more content to show, they /host Minigun (who currently has 1059 viewers) he will suddenly have 11,159 putting him well into the top streamers on twitch (overall not just SC2), which increases the chance that say maybe 50 League of Legends fans see his stream, enjoy it, and become dedicated. Those fans will eventually watch WCS because maybe they want to see Minigun in challenger, or they got into competitive sc2, etc etc
edit: the numbers are made up and anything but accurate representations, just examples
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Thanks Rifkin
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On August 19 2014 15:01 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> KeSPA jail has clearly sapped you of your funny bone Lichter.
Or maybe KBB teached him how to forget humor.
On topic, i'm fealing offended cause i'm not a 12 yo and i didn't get a thing about that. But the comments were funny at least !
EDIT : you should include your last post of the first page as a TL;DR because that was more understandable than your article.
Good thing they are doing that. They will implement cool stuff to make people forget the music thing and the save thing.
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To begin with, let's talk about "twitch culture" for a moment, even though it's not embraced by everyone, it is heavily influential on the majority of fans enjoying SC2.
Are you really sure about this statement, or just seeing the world in your own eyes? Is it really the majority of SC2 fans, or just the majority of people you come around because, well, you are a significant part of the Twitch community itself? Maybe for the small personal streams, the percentage of viewers that care about the chat is large, but considering that very few streamers even cross a thousand viewers, this is still a pretty small number of people when compared to the 10.000s people watching major tournaments.
In general, I think the twitch chat is greatly overrated, because it is just the part of viewers, that are easiest to hear and reach. I basically discovered your stream thanks to "the big one" that I randomly decided to watch as it was in the eventbar. I tuned in in a middle of a game and the game was interesting and the casting good, so I stayed. If I tuned in between games when you spend half the time talking about something related to twitch chat, I would probably quickly dismiss the stream as another twitch nonsense ...
Moreover, looking and my own viewing habits, this does absolutely nothing for me. I watch only tourneys and when the games are finished, I usually turn it off rather quickly (almost anything except GSL runs quite deep into the night anyway for EU, so I hurry to sleep often). Even if they somehow manage to end streaming so quickly after the last games that I still have the player open when they host someone, I will likely turn it off the next second, if the target is not a stream I would watch anyway.
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On August 19 2014 16:59 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +To begin with, let's talk about "twitch culture" for a moment, even though it's not embraced by everyone, it is heavily influential on the majority of fans enjoying SC2. Are you really sure about this statement, or just seeing the world in your own eyes? Is it really the majority of SC2 fans, or just the majority of people you come around because, well, you are a significant part of the Twitch community itself? Maybe for the small personal streams, the percentage of viewers that care about the chat is large, but considering that very few streamers even cross a thousand viewers, this is still a pretty small number of people when compared to the 10.000s people watching major tournaments. In general, I think the twitch chat is greatly overrated, because it is just the part of viewers, that are easiest to hear and reach. I basically discovered your stream thanks to "the big one" that I randomly decided to watch as it was in the eventbar. I tuned in in a middle of a game and the game was interesting and the casting good, so I stayed. If I tuned in between games when you spend half the time talking about something related to twitch chat, I would probably quickly dismiss the stream as another twitch nonsense ... Moreover, looking and my own viewing habits, this does absolutely nothing for me. I watch only tourneys and when the games are finished, I usually turn it off rather quickly (almost anything except GSL runs quite deep into the night anyway for EU, so I hurry to sleep often). Even if they somehow manage to end streaming so quickly after the last games that I still have the player open when they host someone, I will likely turn it off the next second, if the target is not a stream I would watch anyway.
This is really good point that holds true for me as well. Bah, actually for anybody I know that is following SC2 streams.
While I hear your point Rifkin and totally agree that it's nice feature and it's good to have it, you have to be aware that many people don't care that much for Twitch, as they care for the quality of show. That's why I'm big fan of BasetTrade TV, that follows most of your content that is reachable during my free time. I always watch it embed on TL though and with chat not enabled. Just because I regret seeing chat every time I launch it. And whenever there is something relevant to chat or some not game relevant talk I just mute stream and wait for games to begin...
I understand you, as a streaming institution, have to focus on chat community because that target is easy to identify and define. It's understandable that demand shapes your behavior. It's good, but opisska has really good point. So please don't forget about other of your fans, who not necessary like to read post full of random, not funny references and pictures. Especially that I really enjoy your humour on stream and you have way more casting skill than most of "official" SC2 casters.
To sum it up. I see hosting as really good thing and kudos to you for raising awareness in that matter, but I'm not fully convinced that it will "save SC2" (and I know it was used as a joke), at least judging from my stereotypical idea of average SC2 fan. So I may be totally wrong.
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Maybe this means BTTv could host Starbow even if they are not casting tournaments anymore 
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I can't wait for the Fanfiction :D
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OK, I'm just a twitch user (meaning: only watching) and I have not the slightest clue what this /hosting is... and this post doesn't clear anything.
You can stream on another stream or what?
And what about adding the viewers? Are both people streaming??
Is there an explanation somewhere??
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man, that red text is so scary to see. I cry everytiem
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Germany25657 Posts
On August 19 2014 16:51 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 15:01 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> KeSPA jail has clearly sapped you of your funny bone Lichter. Or maybe KBB teached him how to forget humor. On topic, i'm fealing offended cause i'm not a 12 yo and i didn't get a thing about that. But the comments were funny at least ! EDIT : you should include your last post of the first page as a TL;DR because that was more understandable than your article. Good thing they are doing that. They will implement cool stuff to make people forget the music thing and the save thing.
Yes, I destroyed Lichters sense of humor!
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On August 19 2014 20:09 Geisterkarle wrote:
OK, I'm just a twitch user (meaning: only watching) and I have not the slightest clue what this /hosting is... and this post doesn't clear anything.
You can stream on another stream or what?
And what about adding the viewers? Are both people streaming??
Is there an explanation somewhere??
I'll give an example. Maybe that will make it more clear how it works.
I'm a streaming Terran Mech player, but as my time to play is limited I don't get to stream too often. I have a few followers (strangely ) that seem to like to see Mech games. I myself am following other Mech players.
Now, if I don't play and stream myself, but another Mech player is, I can basically show my followers his stream through my channel. As my followers they're notified about me streaming. They tune into my channel (maybe) and will see the other Mech player's stream.
The win-win I think there is, is that my followers get more content (even if not just from me, but with the same theme atleast: Terran Mech) and the ones I host get more viewers and maybe even more followers.
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On August 19 2014 20:09 Geisterkarle wrote:
OK, I'm just a twitch user (meaning: only watching) and I have not the slightest clue what this /hosting is... and this post doesn't clear anything.
You can stream on another stream or what?
And what about adding the viewers? Are both people streaming??
Is there an explanation somewhere??
OP is really poorly written unfortunately, but Rifkin made good explanation later in the thread:
On August 19 2014 16:27 BasetradeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 16:19 Pontius Pirate wrote:
How would you organize a personal streamer to host during the downtime of a major tournament? Wouldn't you be worried about his/her honesty, and maybe they wouldn't bounce the users back to the WCS stream or whatever, so that they could keep more viewers for ads? I think you've confused my point. Here's a proper example: WCS America stops streaming (ending the stream with 10k viewers) If, after they are offline and have no more content to show, they /host Minigun (who currently has 1059 viewers) he will suddenly have 11,159 putting him well into the top streamers on twitch (overall not just SC2), which increases the chance that say maybe 50 League of Legends fans see his stream, enjoy it, and become dedicated. Those fans will eventually watch WCS because maybe they want to see Minigun in challenger, or they got into competitive sc2, etc etc edit: the numbers are made up and anything but accurate representations, just examples
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On August 19 2014 15:16 BasetradeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> licther pls - make me wanna use TL more not less user has used red text in this post
Ignore lichter; he's still upset over losing his own popularity contest.
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On August 19 2014 19:55 -Archangel- wrote:Maybe this means BTTv could host Starbow even if they are not casting tournaments anymore
I hope we can get some of that!
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this is def interesting! xd
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On August 19 2014 14:36 BasetradeTV wrote: I'm not going to lie, a large part of why I'm not more active on TL is because I'm scared that a misplaced " " is going to get me in troub- user has been warned for this post
I laughed so much at this.
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Pretty interesting, though I think that most SC2 pros and streamers would not use this feature, it would be cool for those with like 50-400 average viewers to team up to grow collectively. Thanks for this, Rif.
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On August 19 2014 20:27 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 16:51 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 19 2014 15:01 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> KeSPA jail has clearly sapped you of your funny bone Lichter. Or maybe KBB teached him how to forget humor. On topic, i'm fealing offended cause i'm not a 12 yo and i didn't get a thing about that. But the comments were funny at least ! EDIT : you should include your last post of the first page as a TL;DR because that was more understandable than your article. Good thing they are doing that. They will implement cool stuff to make people forget the music thing and the save thing. Yes, I destroyed Lichters sense of humor!
You taught him. You're too nice to destroy something
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This system lets people abuse it easily. Just have a bogus stream that all your viewers also have open on another tab and then host it towards your main stream and you get double numbers and rise up in total twitch listings and get more new viewers.
Or is that somehow forbidden?
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"Avilo subs" are pretty active in tourney chats from what i've seen, i'm surprised other streamer's subscribers aren't as active as well, but perhaps they don't have as awesome/fun emoticons to use or something :D oh, and nice try, but "avilo subs" never spew garbage, only gold, this site is not reddit, if you want to start anti-stream circlejerks or continue on hate trains post this on reddit instead.
Overall though nice thread about the new hosting feature. It can be good or bad depending on how you look at it or want to use it. Personally, i think it's pretty lame because it inflate's a person's viewer count to something that is not really their own, nor was produced through their own hard work.
But that is just my opinion as a streamer, and it probably is not a common one because people like the cheap and easy way to fame/views.
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On August 20 2014 00:14 avilo wrote:
But that is just my opinion as a streamer, and it probably is not a common one because people like the cheap and easy way to fame/views.
Thanks, I was in dire need of a good bit of irony.
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On August 20 2014 00:51 Broodwurst wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 00:14 avilo wrote:
But that is just my opinion as a streamer, and it probably is not a common one because people like the cheap and easy way to fame/views.
Thanks, I was in dire need of a good bit of irony.
avilo rationalizes massive amounts of people pitying his attitude by trying to categorize them all as "a circlejerk" or "esports illuminati". its classic paranoid behavior, everyone is out to get him as some kind of conspiratorial butt buddy bonanza, it cant possibly be that many many people independently find him unappealing for many reasons
nice writeup, as always basetrade is very proactive in trying to promote the scene and raise involvement and awareness, but that said i cant agree with the twitch culture apologia - i understand basetrade thrives on that sort of thing so it only makes sense businesswise to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but if disallowing unfunny repetitive crap posts on TL means rifkin posting less, i'm fine with that, he can just keep doing the great job he does offsite even if he doesnt post much im glad TL has that attitude toward memes
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On August 20 2014 00:55 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2014 00:51 Broodwurst wrote:On August 20 2014 00:14 avilo wrote:
But that is just my opinion as a streamer, and it probably is not a common one because people like the cheap and easy way to fame/views.
Thanks, I was in dire need of a good bit of irony. avilo rationalizes massive amounts of people pitying his attitude by trying to categorize them all as "a circlejerk" or "esports illuminati". its classic paranoid behavior, everyone is out to get him as some kind of conspiratorial butt buddy bonanza, it cant possibly be that many many people independently find him unappealing for many reasons
That was rather aimed at him profiting a lot from a gimmick (his annoying personality), aka a "cheap and easy way to fame/views."
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Maybe this needs some extra clarification, I'm seeing some comments that don't make sense...
If you /host someone (you can test it yourself as a normal twitch user, go to your own user's channel and type in something like /host wcs_europe) - your channel needs to be Offline, which means, that even if you're hosting another channel, you will still be offline and Not listed on the Twitch live directory.
So basically you can only use it to direct your viewers to watch something else After you've broadcasted something yourself, or if you have an amazing chat community (ie. Basetradetv) you can hint people to watch something through your channel by announcing it on Twitter for example.
All the extra viewer count will only apply to the channel that's actually Live and broadcasting.
(And as mentioned, all ad revenue, views, etc, will be to the Live channel, basically Everything Except Chat)
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On August 19 2014 16:59 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +To begin with, let's talk about "twitch culture" for a moment, even though it's not embraced by everyone, it is heavily influential on the majority of fans enjoying SC2. Are you really sure about this statement, or just seeing the world in your own eyes? Is it really the majority of SC2 fans, or just the majority of people you come around because, well, you are a significant part of the Twitch community itself? Maybe for the small personal streams, the percentage of viewers that care about the chat is large, but considering that very few streamers even cross a thousand viewers, this is still a pretty small number of people when compared to the 10.000s people watching major tournaments. In general, I think the twitch chat is greatly overrated, because it is just the part of viewers, that are easiest to hear and reach. I basically discovered your stream thanks to "the big one" that I randomly decided to watch as it was in the eventbar. I tuned in in a middle of a game and the game was interesting and the casting good, so I stayed. If I tuned in between games when you spend half the time talking about something related to twitch chat, I would probably quickly dismiss the stream as another twitch nonsense ... Moreover, looking and my own viewing habits, this does absolutely nothing for me. I watch only tourneys and when the games are finished, I usually turn it off rather quickly (almost anything except GSL runs quite deep into the night anyway for EU, so I hurry to sleep often). Even if they somehow manage to end streaming so quickly after the last games that I still have the player open when they host someone, I will likely turn it off the next second, if the target is not a stream I would watch anyway.
As for me, I do not use twitch besides watching embedded streams via TL.net or Liquidhearth. That is not because I love TL.net that much (well, I do though), but more because whenever I watch on twitch.tv - it just feels sucky. The layout feels boring and clumpy, the design looks bad to my eyes, and the site does not have very good usability. Also, twitch chat is a cancer to every sane human being. Whenever a caster refers to common twitch stuff like "kappa", "peperino" (or whatever it is), I feel the instant urge to stop watching. I even did a few times - sorry to say that, but the "twitch talk" (among with that kind of american speak habit of rifkin) was a reason for me to absolutely dislike basetradetv. These days I do enjoy BTTV, you're doing great stuff, going more into the organizer side of things etc (well, I disabled adblock for your stream, that has to mean something, right?) and just providing a really entertaining but still somehow analysis influenced cast.
Your efforts to the scene are great.
Edit: for the sake of not wielding the "twitch chat sucks" hammer against basetradeTV only: I love Apollo's cast. Got him to sign some stuff on Gamescom 2013, and when he started to include those "pepperino" shits into his casts, I started to seriously dislike it. Thank god and the queen, he doesn't really use it anymore.
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Places where this seems most likely to be used/useful (IMO):
You are a "B" streamer on a tournament (or it's a tournament B stream) and you are done with your casting. /host the main stream.
You are a player on a team. You finish your streaming session, but a teammate is on. /host your teammate to boost your team's viewers and maybe keep some people on the team's streams. Or "community"/group type channels, e.g. snipealot /hosts to a different BW stream when someone goes offline.
Something like WCS diverting viewers to Minigun (or any individual player) would be rather dodgy, because it's the official SC2 tournament/stream, and so that sort of thing might be a problem (but /hosting to another running tournament once the day is over might be reasonable, since it's likely to be Blizzard sanctioned).
Similarly WCS EU /hosting to WCS AM when they are running one after the other (like tournament A/B streams).
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On August 20 2014 00:14 avilo wrote:
"Avilo subs" are pretty active in tourney chats from what i've seen, i'm surprised other streamer's subscribers aren't as active as well, but perhaps they don't have as awesome/fun emoticons to use or something :D oh, and nice try, but "avilo subs" never spew garbage, only gold, this site is not reddit, if you want to start anti-stream circlejerks or continue on hate trains post this on reddit instead.
Overall though nice thread about the new hosting feature. It can be good or bad depending on how you look at it or want to use it. Personally, i think it's pretty lame because it inflate's a person's viewer count to something that is not really their own, nor was produced through their own hard work.
But that is just my opinion as a streamer, and it probably is not a common one because people like the cheap and easy way to fame/views.
My twitch chat improved immensely when I started using BetterTwitchTV to filter aviDoge and aviKungfu, no offense.
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On August 20 2014 06:48 Lonyo wrote:Something like WCS diverting viewers to Minigun (or any individual player) would be rather dodgy, because it's the official SC2 tournament/stream, and so that sort of thing might be a problem (but /hosting to another running tournament once the day is over might be reasonable, since it's likely to be Blizzard sanctioned).
But honestly, this is exactly what would do the most good. Tournament viewing numbers are still high, but individual streamers could use a boost right now, and a lot of casual Twitch viewers would be more interested in an individual with 5-10k viewers who's playing a game they don't know much about than a tournament for that same game. There are ways to alleviate the conflict issue. You could have a WCS stream only host players from another region. Or players who had just competed in that day's group. Or only players whose groups had already concluded. Or only eliminated players. Or all manner of ways to avoid accusations of bias. I'm all for WCS hosting the Ascended Starcraft League or The Breakout Invitational, but to ignore individual players streaming is to miss out on a major growth opportunity, which is what I think Rifkin sees as the benefit of hosting in the first place. Sum of its parts and all that.
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I was hosted by nathanias the other night and I didnt even know until an hour after it happened because I didn't have the chat open. Was really surprised to see 300 viewers when I normally get <10.
Hosting is pretty cool, let the ties that bind grow even stronger! We're not number 1 anymore we have to stick together.
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On August 19 2014 20:27 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 16:51 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 19 2014 15:01 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:59 lichter wrote:On August 19 2014 14:53 looknohands119 wrote:On August 19 2014 14:50 lichter wrote:
KBB got mad at me for giving blanket warnings for all twitch memes regardless of context so you are free to go
THIS TIME Oh, come on Lichter. I'm like the hardest ass mod on Twitch and even I think that warning Graham for that is a bit of a stretch. giving one's self a fake warning is also a warnable offense >.> KeSPA jail has clearly sapped you of your funny bone Lichter. Or maybe KBB teached him how to forget humor. On topic, i'm fealing offended cause i'm not a 12 yo and i didn't get a thing about that. But the comments were funny at least ! EDIT : you should include your last post of the first page as a TL;DR because that was more understandable than your article. Good thing they are doing that. They will implement cool stuff to make people forget the music thing and the save thing. Yes, I destroyed Lichters sense of humor!
You monster!
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I see a few things that you can think about economically and as a gamer that will hopefully make some sense.
1. Twitch has now opened up Power Leveling via hosting. It is important when considering on who to help that no one does anything without at least perceived value. IE: If your going to spend stream time helping SuperNova that does something for you in some shape or form. That also power levels in Twitch form SuperNova kinda like an MMO.
2. Trade smart. If your good at what you do you can have non-stop quality streams for you and and your viewers.(kind of like a tv network). Your buddies would have good mods and you have good mods, close to 24 hours of awesome content boost everyone.
3. First with the most win. Play the new game, but you better be good at it, and be first in the door with that completed product. Example of this would be Itunes and the Ipod vs Windows Media player and the Zune.
I like your post and wish you the best
ArmyHobbiT
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TL:DR => I don't think "big" companies should host any " particular ".
1) They wouldn't have any control over what is stream, what is said, what music ( yeah easy one ) is play during the stream or anything.
2) Why would a stream with a good amount of viewer would take any risk of losing or dissapoiting anyone by hosting someone else ? They wouldn't really win anything.
3) I see too much conflicts. In your example WCS is hosting Minigun, let's take this one:
- the guy is part of a team, does it mean WCS is giving exposure to this team in particular ?
- why isn't WCS hosting my favorite mech player, or my favorite australian-zerg ?
- if WCS had a sponsor and ROOT had their most vile rival, how would you deal with that ?
Edit : the following seems false, I'm pretty I experienced it, I don't know why, ignore it more then.
(((((((Last, very personnal ( so forget about it), I personnaly HATE when someone is showed as " online " I open the stream and encouter a complete random ( unless ofc I love this stranger, but this is a coin flip I don't think any "serious" companies should take).))))))))))))))
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Ehhem don't usually use forms anymore but here goes! At first I was a bit skeptical when I saw that twitch was going for this /hosting feature however, after seeing how beneficial it can be while watching streams like BaseTradeTV or WinterSC (to name a few) it pretty interesting. Yes it's still in its early stages but atm I don't really see an issue with it and I think it would be pretty awesome to see bigger tournaments use the feature as well.
Anyway just my opinion
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Jp is the only streamer who seems to actually use the hosting thing, and announce who he is hosting. I think it's cool and mostly useful for people who are on the same team to use. Like if EG Incontrol streams for awhile then goes offline but hosts EG ppd streaming Dota it helps promote the team over more games.
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On August 21 2014 04:38 Gurderoy wrote:
Last, very personnal ( so forget about it), I personnaly HATE when someone is showed as " online " I open the stream and encouter a complete random ( unless ofc I love this stranger, but this is a coin flip I don't think any "serious" companies should take).
The stream that's /hosting another channel does NOT show up as Online.
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This feature is really awesome on paper. Could really help, it's at least extremely interesting.
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I need people to host BaseTradeTV so I can watch without partouf betting spam.
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I think this is an awesome new feature. You scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. One thing to keep in mind is that if you have more than 1k viewers, a lot of them are probably afk, so if you host a new stream, they won't leave. They'll just transfer over. I think..
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I love the pictures you used to get your point across haha
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United States790 Posts
On August 21 2014 06:12 partouf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 04:38 Gurderoy wrote:
Last, very personnal ( so forget about it), I personnaly HATE when someone is showed as " online " I open the stream and encouter a complete random ( unless ofc I love this stranger, but this is a coin flip I don't think any "serious" companies should take).
The stream that's /hosting another channel does NOT show up as Online.
They would only show up online if you clicked on them as they were turning their stream off and hosting someone else :D
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United States790 Posts
This is completely correct. I wish big tournaments would host other streams D:
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It's ok addition. "Separate chat" for tournaments is nice. Ability to pump your viewers into other stream isn't big, but streamers can give good exposure to other streamers they like and give them chance to attract those viewers (like teammates hosting each other at the end of stream). I doubt any tournament will use it, except when B stream ends and they host A stream.
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Why only 6 players ?
There should be at least 8, though I can understand if some of them aren't interested in this as much TBH
However - think I'd like the following:
1 - For Terrans: MajOr, Bunny, Dayshi, Xeno
2 - For Protoss: Huk, Jim, Welmu, Sjaak
3 - For Zergs: Snute, Scarleett, Suppy, Sen
Note: I am a REAL FAN of Dimaga, but aware that he's not doing as well lately maybe, so I guess Sen is the best pick for 4th Zerg TBH, after all he won the last TeSL
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United States790 Posts
On August 22 2014 16:51 VArsovskiSC wrote:
Why only 6 players ?
There should be at least 8, though I can understand if some of them aren't interested in this as much TBH
However - think I'd like the following:
1 - For Terrans: MajOr, Bunny, Dayshi, Xeno
2 - For Protoss: Huk, Jim, Welmu, Sjaak
3 - For Zergs: Snute, Scarleett, Suppy, Sen
Note: I am a REAL FAN of Dimaga, but aware that he's not doing as well lately maybe, so I guess Sen is the best pick for 4th Zerg TBH, after all he won the last TeSL
Uhhh . .. . Wrong thread?
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facebook login is the most stupid things ever happen to twitch. There are people who refuse to have a fb account out of principle
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There's definitely a lot of untapped potential in the hosting feature on twitch.
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My new favourite thing on Twitch is watching the face of someone getting out of a ladder game and realizing they've been hosted by BaseTradeTV and their viewer count is tripled. For serious, hosting has shown me a lot of great streams I wouldn't have known about otherwise like Namshar's (great instructional stream with commentary), Crank's, HeroMarine's etc. I don't know the ins and outs of it but hosting has definitely given me a more diverse Twitch experience without me having to put a lot of effort into it so I really like it.
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I'd love to see this used to have 24/7 content streams. Especially specialized streams (say, "TeamLiquidPro") that would only - and more importantly - constantly host TL player streams. Or something similar for niche things like StarBow.
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On August 24 2014 22:39 y0su wrote:
I'd love to see this used to have 24/7 content streams. Especially specialized streams (say, "TeamLiquidPro") that would only - and more importantly - constantly host TL player streams. Or something similar for niche things like StarBow.
Yeah, that would be super cool to have dedicated hosting channels as a "hub".
That made me think of a better way to put why I like hosting so much. My favourite stream is BaseTradeTV, but previously it's been something I've checked if it's on, if not I go hunting for other streams. Twitch is a very chaotic and fragmented viewing experience where you constantly hunt streams with content you'd like and end up hopping in and out of small communities (chats) with a small core of regulars and a large flux of other people.
Hosting turns BaseTradeTV from a program into more of a channel, to use TV terms. Just like I go on TeamLiquid as a hub to see what streams are on, and as a forum I can always go back to if I want to talk about what's going on on any stream, so is BaseTradeTV quickly becoming a Twitch hub for me. Since they host most things I like watching when they're not casting themselves, I get to stay at one fixed point with the other regulars of the channel, which means that I get the best of both worlds. I get a stable community with people I get to know and like while watching a diverse programming.
I don't know about hosting in general but in that example, it's made Twitch less fragmented and given me a much better viewing experience.
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Hosting seems like a pretty good feature. Strangely hosting doens't work for me, every time someone have used it I am left alone in the chat with a closed stream.
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On August 24 2014 22:39 y0su wrote:
I'd love to see this used to have 24/7 content streams. Especially specialized streams (say, "TeamLiquidPro") that would only - and more importantly - constantly host TL player streams. Or something similar for niche things like StarBow.
Isn't that why you can stream as part of a team? Instead of having a twitch.tv/TeamLiquidPro that constantly hosts any TL streams, and needs a person to update it any time someone from TL goes live, you could just go to http://www.twitch.tv/team/teamliquid (which exists) and see everyone on TL and if they're live or not.
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EPT
