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On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety.
Really good to hear that and it's really important.
It just shows that Axiom is governed as professional organization, like responsible companies that withdraw their business in countries which violate modern human rights.
Having such policy is IMO just perfect way to make Esports viewed by people as more professional.
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Hopefully no famous/good players will attend.
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On August 06 2014 21:41 SuperHofmann wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2014 21:12 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I wonder if it's scary or dangerous to go to Russia these days... That's it. And I think someone can also think "I don't wanto to go in a nation that generate a war".
So every country on the globe?
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On August 07 2014 03:35 RatzBarcode wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2014 21:41 SuperHofmann wrote:On August 06 2014 21:12 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I wonder if it's scary or dangerous to go to Russia these days... That's it. And I think someone can also think "I don't wanto to go in a nation that generate a war". So every country on the globe?
Every country on the globe except Switzerland.
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russians.. russians everywhere..
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On August 07 2014 03:36 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 03:35 RatzBarcode wrote:On August 06 2014 21:41 SuperHofmann wrote:On August 06 2014 21:12 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I wonder if it's scary or dangerous to go to Russia these days... That's it. And I think someone can also think "I don't wanto to go in a nation that generate a war". So every country on the globe? Every country on the globe except Switzerland.
Vatican?
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Russian Federation232 Posts
On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety.
TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful.
First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst.
Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media.
Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners.
Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there.
Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail.
Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons.
Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view.
The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more.
You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S.
Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately.
You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more
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if I was a ukranian I probably wouldn't attend a Russian tourney...then again if I wasn't American I probably would have political objections to American tourneys too. So what the fuck, let's just play sc2, I don't want to be a part of your revolution if I can't play starcraft
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On August 07 2014 03:42 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 03:36 Xoronius wrote:On August 07 2014 03:35 RatzBarcode wrote:On August 06 2014 21:41 SuperHofmann wrote:On August 06 2014 21:12 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I wonder if it's scary or dangerous to go to Russia these days... That's it. And I think someone can also think "I don't wanto to go in a nation that generate a war". So every country on the globe? Every country on the globe except Switzerland. Vatican?
Idk, do we count the crusades? But mainly, that post wasn't entirely serious.
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I can only hope jeysen doesn't pull a napoleon.
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On August 07 2014 03:44 meshfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety. TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful. First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst. Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media. Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners. Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there. Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail. Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons. Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view. The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more. You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S. Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately. You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more
I don't think hes trying to "Boycott" DH Moscow, hes just looking out for the safety and welfare of his players.
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On August 07 2014 03:44 meshfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety. TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful. First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst. Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media. Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners. Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there. Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail. Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons. Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view. The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more. You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S. Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately. You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more
Thanks your opinion but I'm not putting my players at risk because of some guys post on a forum.
As an FYI I absolutely would not send my players to Dubai nor ever visit there for the reasons you just mentioned, however this decision as I've already said (and you elected to ignore) has nothing to do with any kind of political boycott.
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On August 07 2014 03:36 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 03:35 RatzBarcode wrote:On August 06 2014 21:41 SuperHofmann wrote:On August 06 2014 21:12 neoghaleon55 wrote:
I wonder if it's scary or dangerous to go to Russia these days... That's it. And I think someone can also think "I don't wanto to go in a nation that generate a war". So every country on the globe? Every country on the globe except Switzerland.
Reisläufer were pretty active around the continent... If you go far back enough you will find that every "national group" has participated in many different wars. War is as "natural" as monkeys throwing shit, lets not make it into some unnatural phenomena that isn't going around the globe constantly.
I thought that travel restrictions and currency exchange caused by sanctions would be bigger issues, but I guess homophobia is a good enough reason "scapegoat"?
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Notice that since World War II there was not a single war between two big democratic countries. Not a single one. We can blame all the countries in the world, USA especially, but notice that if you are quite a normal country with democraticly chosen politicians, you will not be attacked by another democratic country.
However, there are some countries that do not care at all about things like democracy. Russia attacked Georgia in 2008 and now they are doing the same thing with Ukraine. I am aware of fact we can't call Ukraine 100% democratic country, as it's goverment is in power due to people's revolt, but Ukraine is surely taking steps towards democracy.
Every country in the world has it's shades. But some of them are darker than others.
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What about all the other progamers?
Would be nice to hear from them why they aren't attending.
But then maybe dreamhack is just trolling us and the other 20 players are all top foreigners/koreans.
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this thread is a mess as expected.
i find it unfortunate that there are no big names in the line-up yet.
maybe pros change their mind in the next few weeks.
moscow is a wonderful city, definetely worth visiting.
TB's post. yeah sure like the russian force you to live in russia, these are three days, three days of esports, do you think russians are just waiting for these "gay" koreans to beat them up or what? this is so pathetic like really, all players will be together in an area, nerds together alone. i just can't think you were serious when you wrote this. then again none of your players have been to dh valencia either.
during that time i will be on vacation maybe i will make a trip to russia and sign up, i hope i can make it.
i also hope that the russians will be able to show their great enthusiasm and i'll be rooting for happy! Dmitry fighting!
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On August 07 2014 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 03:44 meshfusion wrote:On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety. TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful. First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst. Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media. Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners. Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there. Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail. Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons. Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view. The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more. You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S. Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately. You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more Thanks your opinion but I'm not putting my players at risk because of some guys post on a forum. As an FYI I absolutely would not send my players to Dubai nor ever visit there for the reasons you just mentioned, however this decision as I've already said (and you elected to ignore) has nothing to do with any kind of political boycott.
Just a curious question - tourney in Alabama, would you send players? I watched Top Gear and lets say that did not do well for Alabama  Though I still think you overreact it is your team and your responsibility and whatever, to me it is cheap excuse, but who am I, right?
I hope this tourney goes well with full crowd! 
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On August 07 2014 03:55 KingAlphard wrote:
So Axiom isn't there for political reasons, what about all the other progamers?
Would be nice to hear from them why they aren't attending.
But then maybe dreamhack is just trolling us and the other 20 players are all top foreigners/koreans.
What? TB just said, that it has nothing to do with politics:
On August 07 2014 03:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[...] however this decision as I've already said (and you elected to ignore) has nothing to do with any kind of political boycott.
Please at least read the posts in here, before saying such stuff.
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On August 07 2014 03:55 KingAlphard wrote:
So Axiom isn't there for political reasons,.
has nothing to do with any kind of political boycott.
*flips a fucking table and walks out*
This is why people think transparency is a bad idea, it's better to say nothing at all.
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On August 07 2014 03:52 Josh_Video wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2014 03:44 meshfusion wrote:On August 07 2014 00:27 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 06 2014 23:39 Faust852 wrote:
Looks like pros don't really want to go to Russia :} We're not sending players for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Russias rampant homophobia. Not only is it morally repugnant, but it puts our players at risk. Korean males are culturally very comfortable with being close to each other. Holding hands, sitting on others laps etc, not at all uncommon. In Russia this could be mistaken for gay behavior and may result in misunderstandings that could even lead to violence. There are plenty of incidents where gay or "we thought he was gay" people have been beaten in Russia. Secondly, Russias belligerence in how they're acting with the Ukraine is reason enough to keep our players out on both moral grounds and with concern to their own safety. TB, I love you and your team but to read this is pretty painful. First of all this whole "homophobia" thing is completely blew out of scale by the western media that tried to depict Russia as a country dangerous for gay people- it's not as easy as in some place like California but it's far from the worst. Your post unfortunately denotes a huge amount of ignorance on actual facts and about Russia itself, but I know it's not your fault because you're also brainwashed by western media. Russia has a huge amount of Chinese and southern east Asia visitors who - just like Koreans - act the way you described and there's never episodes like the one you describe where there's episodes that could lead to violence, especially on foreigners. Second, the U.S. itself has some of the most homophobic states (and most racist states too) but you never hear about someone not sending players to a certain state because they're racist and homophobic there. Also, most of the allies of the U.S. (i.e. Saudi Arabia) execute homosexual people and put them in jail. Then Obama goes on TV and says he has no patience for countries that have homophobic remarks like Russia but forgets about their buddies like those middle eastern states from which they get oil from. And then someone like you thinks damn he's right and just pictures Russia as the bad guys forgetting EVERY super-power (US, Russia, China) is equally bad for different reasons. Some western people are so stupid to think to "boycott" Russia for this homophobia reason - which as I said is nothing more than a huge media thing against Russia that started pre-olympics due to tensions that were rising over Snowden and other issues - but you never see some American, UK or EU citizen boycott vacation in Dubai, despite the fact that it's a city built on slavery and where there are some of the strongest anti-gay laws. The view that one country is evil (Russia) and one is good (US, UK or whatever) just shows how much naive you are and the hilarious thing is that you're trying to come out as a good guy for boycotting Russia's event or rather, you have a valid reason not to support Russia- but really, what you're showing is your narrow fielded view. The U.S. does just as many bad things as Russia, and historically speaking have done even more. You probably must not know how things are in China- because you don't boycott there but that country is on far worst human rights ground than Russia and U.S. Before you think I am biased because I am Russian, I want to tell you two things: One is that I lived most of my life in California, one year in the UK and the least amount itself in Russia and when I come back here I always remember how unfair Russians are treated by the rest of the west, especially lately. You are doing nothing more than a disservice for Russian fans. There's aton of Russian SC2 fans, and I know myself a lot of people who love (or maybe now loved) your team and players but reading this stuff is pretty sad and pathetic sorry. This boycott thing working just shows how good the U.S. media campaign is really, nothing more I don't think hes trying to "Boycott" DH Moscow, hes just looking out for the safety and welfare of his players.
Well i don't really know if you can make a parallel but in business when you send a manager overseas he is the one that has to adapt to the local culture, he does not run the same policies as he would back home.
Same goes for the players, they need to adapt ; this is how the world work. Their manager needs to tell them how Russian culture work and they can SURELY stop holding hands and such for a few days..
Also this kinda makes me sick how everyone is biased toward russia.
Stop watching rutube videos and just come to moscow for a while, this isn't so bad...
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EPT
