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4 Posts
Taeja vs Zest
The IEM Shenzhen Round of 8 has opened with a clash between two of the tournament favorites -  TaeJa and  Zest. Many critics of Taeja wondered how he would match up against GSL caliber Koreans. As a two time GSL champion, Zest would serve as an excellent test. But with the condition of Taeja's wrists seemingly in turmoil, a loss to Jim on the previous day and WCS elimination to Pigbaby still fresh in the fans minds, Zest looked to be the smart bet.
Taeja silenced the critics with a dominating 3-0 victory over Zest. The first game on Nimbus was decided by Taeja's immaculate army control netting him crucial win in the deciding battle. The second game on Merry Go Round gave Zest the best chances in the series, Zest caught Taeja off guard with a well timed Colossus push. It looked bleak for the Terran but somehow he weathered the attack. Rather than take the game long, Taeja went all in pulling all of his SCVs in an effort to close out the game. Zest guessed that Taeja would counter with a drop and brought his army into the main, leaving his army horribly out of position to defend his natural which ultimately cost him the game. The final game of the series had Zest spawning horizontally to Taeja on Deadwing, this prompted Zest to play a very aggressive stalker all in. However Taeja calmly defended the attack and a follow up counter drop sealed the game and the series in his favor.
Jaedong vs Snute
 Snute made bold claims prior to the series that Jaedong was the one player he really wanted to get in the Round of 8, and as the draw unfolded it looked like he would get his wish. Snute came in with a clear plan to exploit Jaedong's greedy tendencies in the matchup. Game 1 opened up exactly as Snute predicted as he opened with a 10 pool against Jaedong's 15 hatch. But Jaedong was able to stabilize after the aggression and counter with a baneling attack. Snute was caught completely off guard by the aggression but did what he could to survive. After over five minutes of Jaedong sending waves of zerglings and banelings at Snute he had picked off enough queens and Snute's natural to finally overwhelm him.
Game 2 was more of a traditional roach vs roach game, but Snute's greedier economy netted him an upgrade lead. Snute used this timing to attack and was fortunate to catch Jaedong out of position. With this advantage Snute kept trading with Jaedong which increased his lead. He closed out the game once after getting his +2 attack upgrade. Game 3 had Snute commit to an aggressive 14/14 into baneling pressure strategy which gained him an economic edge. Jaedong crucially omitted a baneling nest while defending so couldn't counter once Snute transitioned into economy. Jaedong tried to use slow roaches to stage a counter attack, but Snute got a perfect read on this move and was well prepared with better upgraded roaches of his own, closing out the game.
With Jaedong's tournament life on the line, both he Snute and Jaedong traded blows until they reached a stable mid game. Snute tried to make something happen with a timing attack to exploit an upgrade advantage, but Jaedong positioning was sublime and the fight resulted in a near maxed Jaedong chasing down Snute's 150 supply army. Despite cute collapsible rock antics to split Jaedongs army, Jaedong's numbers were too much and he quickly overwhelmed Snute.
In the deciding game of the series Snute was able to perfectly fool Jaedong setting up the perfect conditions for a raoch/bane all in. However Snute mistimed his banelings which forced his roaches to tank more damage than desirable. Jaedong used this to stall for 1-1 upgrades for his zerglings and make a miraculous hold. Jaedong then puts on a zergling counter attack clinic to pick apart Snute and steal a semifinal spot from what looked like a dire position. Jaedong remarked after the game that "the heavens must have been on my side".
Jim vs San
It was the battle of Stargates as Jim opened with the same tech path in 3 straight games to reach the semi finals. His 3-2 victory over San sees him become the only foreigner in the Ro4, much to the delight of the home crowd. The phoenix has always been one of Jim's staple units, but it was the oracle the turned out to be the hero of his games. In Games 1, 3, and 5, it was that unit that earned him an advantage that he would not relinquish.
Game 1 was the most straightforward of the bunch as an early oracle gave Jim a decisive advantage in probes and bases. His double stargate and Anion Pulse Crystal upgrade came sooner than San, and it was just a matter of sweeping the skies and lifting San's beleaguered army. San struck back in the second game as he squeezed out his Fleet Beacon sooner, and the phoenix war slowly but surely swung in his favor until he had enough to overwhelm his opponent.
The best game of the series occurred on Deadwing. Jim once again opened with an oracle, but it was unable to net as many probe kills as game 1. San decided to counter with a large stalker army off one base, but Jim was able to hold off the attack until his void rays were out. It would be a switch back to oracles, however, that would seal the deal for Jim. Often considered as a surprise unit that is used only as an opener, the midgame oracle choice caught San completely unaware, forcing San to warp in at home while losing a couple of probes. This forced the Flash Wolves Protoss to all in with blink, and it looked like San might have had enough to break through with his micro. But lo and behold, another oracle appeared in his base and wiped out all his probes to force the gg.
With his back against the wall, San looked all but dead in game three as he once again failed to punish Jim's Stargate and earlier expansion. Unfortunately for the Invictus Gaming Ace, he overextended outside the range of his nexus cannon, and a clutch time warp allowed San to take the phoenix advantage and lift for the win. Jim finally closed things out on Catallena with a proxy oracle that once again put him in a commanding lead. His switch into immortals and eventually Colossus allowed him to expand without fear, and despite San's valiant effort and clever DT drop after clearing out detection, the Chinese Protoss could not be denied a place in the next round.
This continues San's trend of misery in PvP, which was once one of his best matchups. It seems as though his defeat to StarDust in WCS EU Season 2 finals has knocked the wind out of that sail, but a Ro8 finish in a strong tournament is still something to be proud of.
Solar vs Innovation
Solar handed INnoVation one of the worst defeats of his career in the final series of the Round of 8. In all three games Innovation looked completely out classed, which is not something you can normally say about him. The opening game of the series on Catallena had Innovation open up with a standard hellion poke into 3CC build. The hellions succeeded in scouting out no drones at Solar's third and a mass of zerglings, this was indicative of the fact that Solar was going for a roach/bane all in. Thanks to the tip off, Innovation held the first wave of Solar's attack. However he misread the situation and thought Solar's attack was over so crucially cancelled his building bunkers. Solar's second wave of units dealt a killing blow, sealing the first game for Solar.
The second game on Overgrowth was more of a traditional macro game. Innovation seemed to be in control of the game when he was able to contain Solar's creep spread and force Solar to make units with his 3 base pressure. However as the game went on, Solar was able to get a sizable zergling army into Innovations third while mutalisks ravaged his main. This forced Innovation to go all in to to survive, but poor splitting against banelings cost him most of his army and eventually the game. The final game of the night on Merry Go Round had Solar employ a roach/hydralisk timing which, once again, caught Innovation off guard. Innovation did surprisingly well in holding out given he was 100 supply down, but after flailing around like a dead fish for a bit, he eventually tapped out.
Solar will now go up against the Chinese, and foreign hope, Jim in the semifinals. Solar's ZvP has looked unbeatable during the tournament and will be an extremely tough match for Jim.
Jaedong will go up against TaeJa tomorrow in the semifinals. Jaedong and Taeja have met twice this year with Taeja defeating Jaedong both times (Dreamhack Summer 2-0, Homestory Cup IX 3-2).
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Only tuned into the last game, and holy shit taeja's micro is still so good
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Mathematically confirm Pigbaby > Zest
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On July 19 2014 12:29 caznitch wrote:
Mathematically confirm Pigbaby > Zest
pigbaby did infinitely better than zest mathematically lol
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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SUMMER
OF
TAEJA
What incredible defense and risky play. Was so nervous, but he kept pulling out with a win. Some sloppy play on Zest's end too.
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something something kespaaaaaaaa
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Dominican Republic613 Posts
Taeja the Terran that doenst do anything other than playingn normal and still win, such a great player!!! lol
i mean Zest played so sloppy that i think he just gave up the tournament.
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Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this?
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these games were fantastic and very exciting
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 19 2014 13:42 Lumi wrote:
Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this?
It's a work in progress!
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I see how this goes. Okay Taeja vs Zest was amazing, but Jaedong vs Snute was truly epic. A lot to be learned about ZvZ for sure.
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I said this in the LR thread, but Jaedong had probably the best hold I've seen all year. the micro from that was INTENSE if you kept a close look!
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It's like an LR thread that got a promotion! :D
Also, HOW did Jaedong hold in that last game? That's straight-up wizardry, that is.
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Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this?
Uhhh cuz it is freaking awesome? I have local footy teams that text me if they score, let alone win. Go Taeja!
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Well updated articles! GGs from JD and Snute.
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Wow, unexpected TL article. Awesome! =D
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Canada16217 Posts
On July 19 2014 13:53 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 13:42 Lumi wrote:
Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this? It's a work in progress!
Cool idea, I like it.
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On July 19 2014 13:53 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 13:42 Lumi wrote:
Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this? It's a work in progress!
Oh cool, I can dig it :D
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I like the updating articles! Also JD vs Snute games nearly gave me a heart attack, especially the last one. Sad Snute is out but I'm glad JD advances.
Also I can't believe I missed the Taeja vs Zest matches ;_; 3-0... wut
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Very nice article, however a bit stumped about it linking to Here For preview of todays games, its only preview of the groups not the quarter finals. If I'm not missing something obvious.
Sad Snute got taken out but Jaedong is a boss, was planing on watching the games but didn't expect them to be finished already when waking up 06:30 on a bloody saturday. Damnit
Awesome Taeja rocked Zest ^_^
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Jaedong > Bogus finals, please.
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On July 19 2014 13:42 Lumi wrote:
Main news update just for the outcome of a single Ro8 series? Is there a precedent for this?
I like it, Snute vs JD was the one result I was going to look up after waking up. Thanks for saving me a trip to liquipedia TL, saved me 15 seconds!
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Going into this, I think Zest and TaeJa are the only players that really could be called "the best player in the world" right now. I guess there is no question now. And TaeJa also shuts up all the people who say he couldn't compete with the best of the GSL. Sure, Pigbaby showed that he's not invincible but neither is anyone else right now.
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Oh yea its gonna be jd vs Taeja omg!
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On July 19 2014 16:05 Radicalness wrote:
Going into this, I think Zest and TaeJa are the only players that really could be called "the best player in the world" right now. I guess there is no question now. And TaeJa also shuts up all the people who say he couldn't compete with the best of the GSL. Sure, Pigbaby showed that he's not invincible but neither is anyone else right now.
No, there still definitely is. While yes, a very good win, grats, etc etc.
Until he plays with those players all the time, like in proleague and GSL, it will always be questioned. He got stomped by Pigbaby, then stomped Zest. Zest is better than Pigbaby, variance happens. Would Taeja win 70% of his games in GSL? We'll never know until he tried - which he won't. Theorizing is also irrelevant, because unless it happens it doesn't matter.
Now, Taeja is good, I just refuse to say he's the best. His typical tournament win involves a bunch of foreigners, then 2-4 koreans, which are usually frequent international tournament attenders (hyun, mc, etc). Not the same as going vs 10 kespa players.
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Im assuming there is a Spoiler-Free block on it somehow with the feature on the site?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
There is a "hide spoilers" button in the main page.
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Man, tough road for Jim. I know most people will probably think he's lucky to draw Solar instead of Bogus, but Solar's ZvP is ridiculous. But man that would be awesome if he could win tomorrow in China.
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Taeja hype! IDK if he can handle Jaedong's kong power tho.
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On July 19 2014 16:16 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 16:05 Radicalness wrote:
Going into this, I think Zest and TaeJa are the only players that really could be called "the best player in the world" right now. I guess there is no question now. And TaeJa also shuts up all the people who say he couldn't compete with the best of the GSL. Sure, Pigbaby showed that he's not invincible but neither is anyone else right now. No, there still definitely is. While yes, a very good win, grats, etc etc. Until he plays with those players all the time, like in proleague and GSL, it will always be questioned. He got stomped by Pigbaby, then stomped Zest. Zest is better than Pigbaby, variance happens. Would Taeja win 70% of his games in GSL? We'll never know until he tried - which he won't. Theorizing is also irrelevant, because unless it happens it doesn't matter. Now, Taeja is good, I just refuse to say he's the best. His typical tournament win involves a bunch of foreigners, then 2-4 koreans, which are usually frequent international tournament attenders (hyun, mc, etc). Not the same as going vs 10 kespa players.
So who would you say is the best player in the world then? Sure, it's kind of a subjective and biased/speculative title in today's world of StarCraft where every tournament seems to be won by someone new but looking at 2014 in a whole thus far, I think TaeJa's accomplishments edge out anything anyone else has done especially after he just 3-0'd Zest as I had them 1-2.
It's even more clear if he ends up winning this tournament but there's still a long ways to go there. Solar is looking the hottest right now imo.
Anyways, TaeJa is 5-1 in maps against Kespa players thus far in this tournament and his 10 premier wins are more than anyone else in the history sc2 but he'll always get flack for not winning or consistently competing in the GSL.
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As has been said before, Zest losing 3-0 can easily be put down to variance. To be the best player in the world, Taeja has to prove himself consistently in the hardest scene of all - the KR scene.
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Italy12246 Posts
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On July 19 2014 17:11 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 16:16 Zenbrez wrote:On July 19 2014 16:05 Radicalness wrote:
Going into this, I think Zest and TaeJa are the only players that really could be called "the best player in the world" right now. I guess there is no question now. And TaeJa also shuts up all the people who say he couldn't compete with the best of the GSL. Sure, Pigbaby showed that he's not invincible but neither is anyone else right now. No, there still definitely is. While yes, a very good win, grats, etc etc. Until he plays with those players all the time, like in proleague and GSL, it will always be questioned. He got stomped by Pigbaby, then stomped Zest. Zest is better than Pigbaby, variance happens. Would Taeja win 70% of his games in GSL? We'll never know until he tried - which he won't. Theorizing is also irrelevant, because unless it happens it doesn't matter. Now, Taeja is good, I just refuse to say he's the best. His typical tournament win involves a bunch of foreigners, then 2-4 koreans, which are usually frequent international tournament attenders (hyun, mc, etc). Not the same as going vs 10 kespa players. So who would you say is the best player in the world then? Sure, it's kind of a subjective and biased/speculative title in today's world of StarCraft where every tournament seems to be won by someone new but looking at 2014 in a whole thus far, I think TaeJa's accomplishments edge out anything anyone else has done especially after he just 3-0'd Zest as I had them 1-2. It's even more clear if he ends up winning this tournament but there's still a long ways to go there. Solar is looking the hottest right now imo. Anyways, TaeJa is 5-1 in maps against Kespa players thus far in this tournament and his 10 premier wins are more than anyone else in the history sc2 but he'll always get flack for not winning or consistently competing in the GSL.
I would say the true answer, even if it's a bit of a cop out, is that no one really knows. Not just the insular nature of GSL/SPL tournaments, but also the fact that players that may be great at preparation that comes with SPL/GSL, may suck at weekend tournaments around the world format. And vice versa.
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I think TotalBiscuit has this one right. Taeja is very solid in mechanics, but he probably just does not do as much to prepare for a specific match. That hurts him not only in GSL, but in WCS as well. Starcraft is indeed a game that specialized preparation does make a lot of difference. Maybe he should seek his redemption in Blizzcon or IEM finals...
In general, I see Kespa players pretty good; the code S players are perhaps in average better than Koreans that are commonly seen at WCS NA/EU Ro8, but not like dominantly so.
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On July 19 2014 17:14 PerSe wrote:
As has been said before, Zest losing 3-0 can easily be put down to variance. To be the best player in the world, Taeja has to prove himself consistently in the hardest scene of all - the KR scene.
That's basically saying "Zest is the best player in the world just because he plays in Korea" when it's more logical to look at the games (which he just lost). That's also saying "Nobody who plays outside of Korea can be considered the best in the world".
Sure, if they played 2 more best of 5's Zest might win them both but that's yet to be seen. Right now, the games were played and games have meaning. Zest lost. If games and head-to-head matches don't have meaning, why do we watch and why are they played?
More weight will ALWAYS be given to GSL Champions as it should but they don't get all the weight.
This IEM had 6/16 of last season's GSL ro16 (almost half!!!!!) and how many are in the semifinals here? Only one.
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On July 19 2014 17:17 baubo wrote:
I would say the true answer, even if it's a bit of a cop out, is that no one really knows (who the best player is). Not just the insular nature of GSL/SPL tournaments, but also the fact that players that may be great at preparation that comes with SPL/GSL, may suck at weekend tournaments around the world format. And vice versa.
Although it is a cop out, it's also a very true. Still, sports fans and esports fans like to speculate 
Ideally, Blizzcon would determine the true champion of SC2 but when there are 50 tournaments leading up to it, it kind of negates the value of winning Blizzcon. Point being sOs won it last year without winning any other tournaments while there were several people (Dear, Life, TaeJa, Polt) who had won multiple tournaments and guys like Innovation and Soulkey who had looked absolutely consistent and dominant. Makes it hard to single out a best player (Soulkey was my best player of 2013 though).
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"Bops" is a little bit smack-talkish; we don't really have a precedent for that with headlines. What if you got bopped and it was a headline. XD Just saying - it may not be a big deal, but I've really rarely seen a headline take on that kind of tone. It's a bit in your face spoilerish, too. It gives away more than simply saying that someone defeated someone, even with a score. Bops gets rid of the ambiguity surrounding the potential that all three games could have been close and enthralling for spectators, even. :3 I'm such a pedant, today.
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great idea and write-up. i missed all the games, but reading the summary it more then made up for it.
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I think Innovation plays too greedy and dies too easily to timings. I wish he would mix it up more. He has such great macro and micro, but I think he would do better with more variation in his play, and have a few more units/defense/tanks?.
Kudos to Solar though. Well played.
Watching Taeja was excellent. Glad to see him do so well after the losses to Pigbaby and Jim previously.
Good luck to Taeja tomorrow!
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On July 19 2014 17:14 PerSe wrote:
As has been said before, Zest losing 3-0 can easily be put down to variance. To be the best player in the world, Taeja has to prove himself consistently in the hardest scene of all - the KR scene.
No. The KR scene deserves more weight, but it isn't everything.
Foreign events, though not as prestigious, do offer a different type of skill measure than the KR ones in adaptability and endurance. Now, I respect the measure of preparation more but only to an extent.
As an example, 5 premier foreign tournament wins outweighs a gsl title in my book. Give or take a few depending on the level of competition attending them.
For 2014, it might be a stretch to call Taeja the best just yet, but he's really making a case for himself. If Taeja wins several more foreign events this year (a very real possibility with his record) and idk...Classic doesn't win anything more. Can we honestly say Classic > Taeja for winning 1 gsl title and being in code S? I would say no.
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I wanted Taeja vs Inno finals 
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people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it.
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On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it.
Or people don't only look at the latest result...
TaeJa 3-0 Zest
... and include some of the previous ones:
TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby
TaeJa 0-2 First
TaeJa 0-2 Jim
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On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim
Yes, let's include some previous results:
TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
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Jaedong and Solar fighting!
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On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
which had a better level than any premier tournament considering it was a 8man invitationnal online (only reason for it to not be a premier). If you can' t see that taeja never ever had a good results in GSL/WCS and still lose to mid tier players protoss. But farming foreigner events without real opposition is going to get you fame + that liquid bias.
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Taeja 3-0ing Zest really astonishes me. Good though Taeja may be, and shaky though Zest's PvT may sometimes look, I didn't expect Taeja to be able to roll this hard on a playoffs GSL caliber player. Guess I need to see the games.
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Oh my lord, Taeja vs. Jaedong, please tell me this is broadcasted after midnight tonight...
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never trust save bets if they will involve kr kr vs non kr kr discussion. 
Especially if the discussion before involved "has to beat code S players"
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On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material?
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On July 19 2014 20:18 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. which had a better level than any premier tournament considering it was a 8man invitationnal online (only reason for it to not be a premier) . If you can' t see that taeja never ever had a good results in GSL/WCS and still lose to mid tier players protoss. But farming foreigner events without real opposition is going to get you fame + that liquid bias.
Were you even around when Taeja was in the gsl? Taeja was regularly making ro8+ and was still a competitive player before leaving for WCS AM at the beginning of HotS. It's not like he plummeted to code B and then left, he was in the ro16. Perhaps he doesn't do as well in gsl or other preparation-heavy tournaments but to say he's never had good results in them is ridiculous.
Also, I wouldn't say he's "farming foreigner events", this isn't 2011 anymore. high-level Korean representation post-WCS has gone through the roof. Foreigners don't win premiere events anymore. The current IEM alone had Life, Zest, Solar, Bogus, Stork, and TRUE from the gsl. 5/6 of them have been defeated by Jim, Jaedong, Taeja, and Snute. Only Solar is still alive.
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Gonna risk losing my "noble" but - Taeja is getting boring like f*ck lately, lol
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always funny people saying "taeja oinly wins tournmanets because no top code S players there"
well here you have him vs a winner, looking strong doesnt he ?
On July 19 2014 20:43 VArsovskiSC wrote:
Gonna risk losing my "noble" but - Taeja is getting boring like f*ck lately, lol
not vs pigbaby ^^
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haha thought people cant argue now, but they rly try to say zest is bad atm etc ... its so stupid it hurts ^^
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Pigbaby 3-0 Taeja
Taeja 3-0 Zest
AMURICA CONFIRMED HARDEST REGION!!!!!
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On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material?
What does Huk have to do with anything?
Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0.
In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time.
Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that.
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On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that.
Nowhere did I start a "is TaeJa or Zest better than the other" debate. As far as I'm concerned the "best player in the world" title makes little sense in the SC2 environment. I am perfectly aware that TaeJa can compete with Code S players; I didn't forget his RO4 run in the last WoL GSL, nor his RO16 in the first HotS one, nor his numerous wins against Life or Bogus, etc. But I also know how to weigh his victories accordingly when he faces inferior competition like at the HSC or Dreamhack.
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So far IEM puts DH to shame. Sick semifinals, sick games, the best interviews ever. The moment when Snute was rushed by fans after his loss and he was fine giving tons of autographs was special. Too bad the times aren't great, and the venue failed on the first two days.
Now I really hope Jaedong wis, but I am already happy no matter what happens, only awesome players and games left (since the ro8 anyway).
Thanks for the recap, I watched the vods, but not the PvP.
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Man it's too bad Taeja only plays against foreigners and can't actually beat real Code S opponents. Oh wait...
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10000 dollar mainprize? Taeja had this from the start
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I just watched the VODs and... wow. Zest played way below his level.
Game 1. TaeJa gets away with CC rax gas into 2 rax Medivacs and a 8'20 third. Zest opts for the now classic colo dual forge 4 gas Stormless army. OK. He defends without troubles TaeJa's vague attempts at dropping. OK. At 15'30 he has started 3-0-3 and his 7th (!) colo, and he still has 400 gas left; why not build an archives now? Soon after he's max, with gas banked, and he still doesn't start the Archives. He only starts it at 17'10. When 3-0-3 completes he does nothing. The whole point of his play is to aim at this timing, when Terran is still 2-2 with not enough Vikings to handle the Zealots/Stalkers/Colossi army. But Zest sits. He doesn't even try to pressure TaeJa's fourth, nor does he try to capitalize on his superior upgrades. His composition has a clear expiry date but he lets time pass. Meanwhile, TaeJa strenghthens his composition with more Ghosts/Vikings then attacks Zest's fourth before he has Storm (see the consequences of the late archives). Zest inexplicably Blinks all his Stalkers in front of TaeJa's bio despite his Zealots and Colossi not even being yet in the battle and gets rolled. Pigbaby's usage of the colo dual forge was considerably superior.
Game 2. Zest goes for a 2-bases colo timing but forgets Warpgate and only starts it at 7'05, i.e. 3 minutes late. He does not immediately produce from his unique gate to compensate. As a result, he gets his first Sentries only at 9 minutes, which means they have little time to bank energy before the push (same pattern for the 3 ones he warps at 9'40, which only come with a single Forcefield for the battle). He's also forced to chrono Warpgate instead of his colo production. His first Colossus almost dies to TaeJa's stim timing because he has no Sentry to Forcefield the bio away (this is critical as a wounded colo dies much earlier and thus deals of course less damage). Luckily for him, he catches TaeJa out of position despite having... less supply when he attacks. Since the execution of his build is off, he floats 450 minerals after his second warp-in despite having 7 gates. He would have also been supply blocked even if TaeJa had not destroyed his proxy pylon (93/100 with no Pylon started when he needs 14 supply for each warp-in). He has no Guardian Shield. His injured colo is pulled back from TaeJa's charge but is quickly destroyed by a Marauder coming from the main. The third colo comes late to the party when most of his army is already wiped. The MSC then arrives to witness the disaster and casts a Time Warp to slow the corrosion of the metal on the ground before being destroyed by 2 Vikings. Despite all of this Zest is still not in a completely hopeless position as TaeJa lost tons of SCVs… But Zest doesn't immediately remake his MSC despite having the gas for it; he starts it at 13'15 despite losing it at 11'35. When TaeJa pulls SCVs for the second time, scouted by Zest's Observer, he inexplicably moves his whole army towards the main, then wants to come back to his natural and thus has to funnel all his troops through the ramp with colos going full BW Dragoons on the ledge as a result.
Game 3. Zest scouts gas first and tries a 3g Stalker counter-attack. Why not. He does not poke TaeJa's natural, if only with a Probe, to check if the Bunker was done in time (which was not the case here). He waits 9 Stalkers to start destroying the rocks before attacking from there. The onslaught is somewhat successful but he does nothing at home. No transition. He doesn't launch any building despite already floating 500 minerals after his 9' warp-in and still building Probes (i.e. his bank would only increase over time). He wakes up only at 10 minutes to build 2 gas at his natural. He's still on 3 gates despite floating now 1k mineral. Still no tech. Only at 10'55 does he add 4 gates to match his income. It has been 5 minutes now that he's on his basic 3gR infrastructure. But now it is too late; he's still in TaeJa's natural with a bunch of unupgraded Zealots/Stalkers and only one Sentry versus stimmed bio + Medivacs. After that he still finds a way to blunder with his MSC, unrealistically trying to kill off a 35 hp flying OC with a unit void of any anti-air.
Uh… It's no wonder Zest got 0-3'ed here. His play was barely Code A level.
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Game 1. TaeJa gets away with CC rax gas into 2 rax Medivacs and a 8'20 third. Zest opts for the now classic colo dual forge 4 gas Stormless army. OK. He defends without troubles TaeJa's vague attempts at dropping. OK. At 15'30 he has started 3-0-3 and his 7th (!) colo, and he still has 400 gas left; why not build an archives now? Soon after he's max, with gas banked, and he still doesn't start the Archives. He only starts it at 17'10. When 3-0-3 completes he does nothing. The whole point of his play is to aim at this timing, when Terran is still 2-2 with not enough Vikings to handle the Zealots/Stalkers/Colossi army. But Zest sits. He doesn't even try to pressure TaeJa's fourth, nor does he try to capitalize on his superior upgrades. His composition has a clear expiry date but he lets time pass. Meanwhile, TaeJa strenghthens his composition with more Ghosts/Vikings then attacks Zest's fourth before he has Storm (see the consequences of the late archives). Zest inexplicably Blinks all his Stalkers in front of TaeJa's bio despite his Zealots and Colossi not even being yet in the battle and gets rolled. Pigbaby's usage of the colo dual forge was considerably superior.
Yeh the whole archive thing confused me as well. I think tbh Zest easily had won that game if he had not forgotten it.
I think this was just Zest playing at his worst, rather than Taeja looking like the best terran in the world.
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First, let me say that Taeja is the man.
Second, Zest played badly, not just for him but for any top tier Protoss. In game one, Zest totally shut Taeja down and then he engaged Taeja's ghost heavy army without an observer. This is so staggeringly stupid (especially if you're playing Taeja) little needs to be said. (Do KESPA players literally not know anything about their opponents outside proleague at all? How do you not know to bring an observer with your army (rallied to a unit) in the late game against Terran.) In game 2 Taeja was dead and Zest had just unbelievable poor engagements as in the only way he could have lost the game was if you do what he did. The final engagement was so bad that if you're conspiracy theory minded you would think he was trying to throw the game. He went up a ramp (instead of just pulling his probes at the natural to match Taeja's scv pull and crushing Taeja's weak army) and then went down the ramp first with his stalkers. His Colossi were off to the side fighting single marauders and Vikings by themselves, while Taeja's main army was obliterating the stalkers that were trying to come down the ramp. In the third game Taeja held reasonably well, Zest did enough damage that he was about even with Taeja and then Zest incorrectly judged that a handful of unupgraded stalkers and zealots could beat a similar in supply group of stimmed marauders and marines with medivac support and then derped his mothership away. Needless to say, his decision making was laughably bad. I know that Apollo was hyping Zest hard and Zest's pvp is the best in the world but his tvp is not in the top 5.
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On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim
Pretty much this. Taeja is a great player but his tvp isn't otherworldly. I don't know what to say about his beating Zest other than that Zest appeared to have some sort of meltdown in each game and Taeja being the top flight talent that he is was able to capitalize.
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On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that.
But why are you putting Taeja as a contender to the best players in the world without including Maru, Innovation, Soo, Hero and lots of other players? What logic are you using to support your theory that Taeja is perhaps the best player in the world? Why not add Pigbaby or First as well - I mean they also just swept Taeja like Taeja swept Zest.
The difference between Maru and Taeja is that the former has a trackcored of consistent results against the very best players in the world, while the latter has a good trackrecord against players of worse quality.
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Taeja got that live lan experience and it showed.
I still think he can't win a gsl code s title tho ^_^
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Taeja 4-0'd MC, 3-0'd HerO, and now 3-0'd Zest who recently won two GSL events. Taeja picked up 2 Premier titles in 2 weeks
. . .
That's pretty impressive.
. . .
But he lost to Pigbaby! Vote Pigbaby for Toss Bonjwa
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On July 19 2014 23:34 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that. But why are you putting Taeja in amongst that claim? What logic are you using to support your theory that Taeja is perhaps the best player in the world? Why not add Pigbaby or First as well - I mean they also just swept Taeja like Taeja swept Zest. The difference between Maru and Taeja is that the former has a trackcored of consistent results against the very best players in the world, while the latter has a good trackrecord against players of worse quality.
I actually think that Taeja is by far the best player in the world in terms of pure skill... way ahead of Maru... and i think Taeja has incredible track record against the very best players in the world... or do you say that players playing in korea are the very best just because they play in korea, even tho they lose to "outsiders" all the time? Funny how those same "best of the best" lose to foreigners and koreans playing outside of korea in tournaments without 2 week preparation for every match...
Saying "zest was way bellow his usual level" as some said here... well duh, he just played one of the best, if not the best, player in the world without any preparation... and it showed a lot... he was doing silly things, not looking comfortable with builds and everything, getting flustered in situations... all around not being sure of himself... while Taeja was sure of his skill, control and his decisions were spot on even in very dire situations where everyone thought he is done for... doesnt that just prove that zest is maybe best player with preparation, but taeja better in pure skill randomly tossed in game and adapting on the spot?
Having builds prepared for 2 weeks ahead of the game for certain player and certain maps is pretty different to on the spot decisions you have to make outside of korean tournaments... what proves skill better? in my oppinion foreign tournaments are better gauge of pure skill... especially when top koreans go there and get smashed in straight up games, not getting cheesed... and majority of those top top korean players did play in one or more outside style tournaments, and they werent that otherwordly in them... if anyone was otherwordly in those tournaments, it was usually taeja
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Taeja is overrated. Taeja plays in the easy region, he couldn't compete in Korea. Taeja just farms foreign money. Taeja can't beat a Kespa elite, especially not in an offline bo5. Haters and doubters sit down son
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If only Americans get some sort of social facilitation at tournaments in NA... oh well go Jim vs JD finals !
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On July 20 2014 00:17 Salient wrote:
Taeja 4-0'd MC, 3-0'd HerO, and now 3-0'd Zest who recently won two GSL events. Taeja picked up 2 Premier titles in 2 weeks
As if MC was a reference for macro PvT...
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On July 20 2014 00:28 genai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 23:34 Hider wrote:On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that. But why are you putting Taeja in amongst that claim? What logic are you using to support your theory that Taeja is perhaps the best player in the world? Why not add Pigbaby or First as well - I mean they also just swept Taeja like Taeja swept Zest. The difference between Maru and Taeja is that the former has a trackcored of consistent results against the very best players in the world, while the latter has a good trackrecord against players of worse quality. I actually think that Taeja is by far the best player in the world in terms of pure skill... way ahead of Maru... and i think Taeja has incredible track record against the very best players in the world... or do you say that players playing in korea are the very best just because they play in korea, even tho they lose to "outsiders" all the time? Funny how those same "best of the best" lose to foreigners and koreans playing outside of korea in tournaments without 2 week preparation for every match... Saying "zest was way bellow his usual level" as some said here... well duh, he just played one of the best, if not the best, player in the world without any preparation... and it showed a lot... he was doing silly things, not looking comfortable with builds and everything, getting flustered in situations... all around not being sure of himself... while Taeja was sure of his skill, control and his decisions were spot on even in very dire situations where everyone thought he is done for... doesnt that just prove that zest is maybe best player with preparation, but taeja better in pure skill randomly tossed in game and adapting on the spot? Having builds prepared for 2 weeks ahead of the game for certain player and certain maps is pretty different to on the spot decisions you have to make outside of korean tournaments... what proves skill better? in my oppinion foreign tournaments are better gauge of pure skill... especially when top koreans go there and get smashed in straight up games, not getting cheesed... and majority of those top top korean players did play in one or more outside style tournaments, and they werent that otherwordly in them... if anyone was otherwordly in those tournaments, it was usually taeja
Totally agree with you. Sure, Taeja might not be the best player when it comes down to tournaments involve long time preparation for specific opponent, but he is probably the BEST player in those weekend tournaments no matter what his opponent is.
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On July 20 2014 00:30 swag_bro wrote:
If only Americans get some sort of social facilitation at tournaments in NA... oh well go Jim vs JD finals !
I would cream my pants if that happens
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tuned out after JD v Snute. amazing games, bummed that Snute is out ... he was looking so good. last match was a real nail biter
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I am curious to see if Jaedong can kill Taeja this time - he almost had Taejas number at HSC IX. Cheering for Jaedong!
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That game 2 hold in the Taeja vs Zest series and that game 5 hold between Jaedong vs Snute...
I don't understand what happened
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On July 20 2014 00:28 Yorkie wrote:
Taeja is overrated. Taeja plays in the easy region, he couldn't compete in Korea. Taeja just farms foreign money. Taeja can't beat a Kespa elite, especially not in an offline bo5. Haters and doubters sit down son
Haha. Taeja just owned all the internet trolls who doubted him. TvP against a recent winner of two GSL events? Clean sweep, just like against HerO and MC.
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On July 20 2014 00:28 genai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 23:34 Hider wrote:On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that. But why are you putting Taeja in amongst that claim? What logic are you using to support your theory that Taeja is perhaps the best player in the world? Why not add Pigbaby or First as well - I mean they also just swept Taeja like Taeja swept Zest. The difference between Maru and Taeja is that the former has a trackcored of consistent results against the very best players in the world, while the latter has a good trackrecord against players of worse quality. I actually think that Taeja is by far the best player in the world in terms of pure skill... way ahead of Maru... and i think Taeja has incredible track record against the very best players in the world... or do you say that players playing in korea are the very best just because they play in korea, even tho they lose to "outsiders" all the time? Funny how those same "best of the best" lose to foreigners and koreans playing outside of korea in tournaments without 2 week preparation for every match... Saying "zest was way bellow his usual level" as some said here... well duh, he just played one of the best, if not the best, player in the world without any preparation... and it showed a lot... he was doing silly things, not looking comfortable with builds and everything, getting flustered in situations... all around not being sure of himself... while Taeja was sure of his skill, control and his decisions were spot on even in very dire situations where everyone thought he is done for... doesnt that just prove that zest is maybe best player with preparation, but taeja better in pure skill randomly tossed in game and adapting on the spot? Having builds prepared for 2 weeks ahead of the game for certain player and certain maps is pretty different to on the spot decisions you have to make outside of korean tournaments... what proves skill better? in my oppinion foreign tournaments are better gauge of pure skill... especially when top koreans go there and get smashed in straight up games, not getting cheesed... and majority of those top top korean players did play in one or more outside style tournaments, and they werent that otherwordly in them... if anyone was otherwordly in those tournaments, it was usually taeja
This is how I perceive your post:
1) Starts out with a random opinion.
2) Lot's of cliches to support your opinion.
3) No usage of ingame analysis nor use of statistics
4) Another claim that goes against common knowledge (foreign tournaments better than korean tournamnets).
5) No data to back up that very controverse opinion
If you want to convince others that your argument is correct, then I would advice you to the very least have some actual data to support it (assuming you lack the ability to analyse games qualitiatively).
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On July 20 2014 00:28 genai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 23:34 Hider wrote:On July 19 2014 21:27 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material? What does Huk have to do with anything? Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0. In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time. Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that. But why are you putting Taeja in amongst that claim? What logic are you using to support your theory that Taeja is perhaps the best player in the world? Why not add Pigbaby or First as well - I mean they also just swept Taeja like Taeja swept Zest. The difference between Maru and Taeja is that the former has a trackcored of consistent results against the very best players in the world, while the latter has a good trackrecord against players of worse quality. I actually think that Taeja is by far the best player in the world in terms of pure skill... way ahead of Maru... and i think Taeja has incredible track record against the very best players in the world... or do you say that players playing in korea are the very best just because they play in korea, even tho they lose to "outsiders" all the time? Funny how those same "best of the best" lose to foreigners and koreans playing outside of korea in tournaments without 2 week preparation for every match... Saying "zest was way bellow his usual level" as some said here... well duh, he just played one of the best, if not the best, player in the world without any preparation... and it showed a lot... he was doing silly things, not looking comfortable with builds and everything, getting flustered in situations... all around not being sure of himself... while Taeja was sure of his skill, control and his decisions were spot on even in very dire situations where everyone thought he is done for... doesnt that just prove that zest is maybe best player with preparation, but taeja better in pure skill randomly tossed in game and adapting on the spot? Having builds prepared for 2 weeks ahead of the game for certain player and certain maps is pretty different to on the spot decisions you have to make outside of korean tournaments... what proves skill better? in my oppinion foreign tournaments are better gauge of pure skill... especially when top koreans go there and get smashed in straight up games, not getting cheesed... and majority of those top top korean players did play in one or more outside style tournaments, and they werent that otherwordly in them... if anyone was otherwordly in those tournaments, it was usually taeja
Haha! Taeja better than Maru! and not only that! He's ''WAY'' better! My sides! 10/10. But I do hate how people are like ''Jaedong/HerO/MC/ForGG/Taeja/Bomber/Polt could NEVER make Code S they wouldn't even get into Code A and if they did they would just drop out in the ro32 lmfao they're low tier cant possibly compete with top tier koreans'' Do they just suddenly forget that they play on the korean ladder? that the only real difference is who they play in WCS? that Life for example has fallen to Taeja for example MULTIPLE times and he finished top4 just 2 seasons ago in GSL
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Taeja vs Jaedong round 3
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Dominican Republic613 Posts
On July 20 2014 00:28 Yorkie wrote:
Taeja is overrated. Taeja plays in the easy region, he couldn't compete in Korea. Taeja just farms foreign money. Taeja can't beat a Kespa elite, especially not in an offline bo5. Haters and doubters sit down son
i could not agree more...
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On July 06 2014 12:17 SC2BF3Love wrote:
IM SO GLAD, Taeja glory has come to an end... people overrated this terran player that just knows how to play greedy protoss, cheese protoss.
Pigbaby made taeja looks like a Plat terran.... this is for those that think Taeja is a good player... a basically being beaten by a ramdon protoss... imagine... SoS, Rain, Zest, Parting, etc... he wont stance a chance.
Taeja the Terran that doenst do anything other than playingn normal and still win, such a great player!!! lol
That's one serious hater  gratz Taeja
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United States23455 Posts
On July 20 2014 06:14 SC2BF3Love wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 00:28 Yorkie wrote:
Taeja is overrated. Taeja plays in the easy region, he couldn't compete in Korea. Taeja just farms foreign money. Taeja can't beat a Kespa elite, especially not in an offline bo5. Haters and doubters sit down son i could not agree more...
You ended up being wrong. Move on now please :D
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So everytime Teja looses is because of his wrist
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United States23455 Posts
On July 20 2014 08:36 nichan wrote:
So everytime Teja looses is because of his wrist
No one said that
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And now he just 3-1'd Jaedong to make it to the finals. The poor Dong.
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On July 20 2014 08:38 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 08:36 nichan wrote:
So everytime Teja looses is because of his wrist No one said that
i say that
do u not see him stretch and rotate that wrist after games?
all his losses are because wrist, all his wins are because his skill > normal human skill
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On July 20 2014 08:38 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2014 08:36 nichan wrote:
So everytime Teja looses is because of his wrist No one said that
As a two time GSL champion, Zest would serve as an excellent test. But with the condition of Taeja's wrists seemingly in turmoil, a loss to Jim on the previous day and WCS elimination to Pigbaby still fresh in the fans minds, Zest looked to be the smart bet.
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