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On July 19 2014 17:14 PerSe wrote:
As has been said before, Zest losing 3-0 can easily be put down to variance. To be the best player in the world, Taeja has to prove himself consistently in the hardest scene of all - the KR scene.
That's basically saying "Zest is the best player in the world just because he plays in Korea" when it's more logical to look at the games (which he just lost). That's also saying "Nobody who plays outside of Korea can be considered the best in the world".
Sure, if they played 2 more best of 5's Zest might win them both but that's yet to be seen. Right now, the games were played and games have meaning. Zest lost. If games and head-to-head matches don't have meaning, why do we watch and why are they played?
More weight will ALWAYS be given to GSL Champions as it should but they don't get all the weight.
This IEM had 6/16 of last season's GSL ro16 (almost half!!!!!) and how many are in the semifinals here? Only one.
EDIT:
On July 19 2014 17:17 baubo wrote:
I would say the true answer, even if it's a bit of a cop out, is that no one really knows (who the best player is). Not just the insular nature of GSL/SPL tournaments, but also the fact that players that may be great at preparation that comes with SPL/GSL, may suck at weekend tournaments around the world format. And vice versa.
Although it is a cop out, it's also a very true. Still, sports fans and esports fans like to speculate 
Ideally, Blizzcon would determine the true champion of SC2 but when there are 50 tournaments leading up to it, it kind of negates the value of winning Blizzcon. Point being sOs won it last year without winning any other tournaments while there were several people (Dear, Life, TaeJa, Polt) who had won multiple tournaments and guys like Innovation and Soulkey who had looked absolutely consistent and dominant. Makes it hard to single out a best player (Soulkey was my best player of 2013 though).
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"Bops" is a little bit smack-talkish; we don't really have a precedent for that with headlines. What if you got bopped and it was a headline. XD Just saying - it may not be a big deal, but I've really rarely seen a headline take on that kind of tone. It's a bit in your face spoilerish, too. It gives away more than simply saying that someone defeated someone, even with a score. Bops gets rid of the ambiguity surrounding the potential that all three games could have been close and enthralling for spectators, even. :3 I'm such a pedant, today.
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great idea and write-up. i missed all the games, but reading the summary it more then made up for it.
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I think Innovation plays too greedy and dies too easily to timings. I wish he would mix it up more. He has such great macro and micro, but I think he would do better with more variation in his play, and have a few more units/defense/tanks?.
Kudos to Solar though. Well played.
Watching Taeja was excellent. Glad to see him do so well after the losses to Pigbaby and Jim previously.
Good luck to Taeja tomorrow!
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On July 19 2014 17:14 PerSe wrote:
As has been said before, Zest losing 3-0 can easily be put down to variance. To be the best player in the world, Taeja has to prove himself consistently in the hardest scene of all - the KR scene.
No. The KR scene deserves more weight, but it isn't everything.
Foreign events, though not as prestigious, do offer a different type of skill measure than the KR ones in adaptability and endurance. Now, I respect the measure of preparation more but only to an extent.
As an example, 5 premier foreign tournament wins outweighs a gsl title in my book. Give or take a few depending on the level of competition attending them.
For 2014, it might be a stretch to call Taeja the best just yet, but he's really making a case for himself. If Taeja wins several more foreign events this year (a very real possibility with his record) and idk...Classic doesn't win anything more. Can we honestly say Classic > Taeja for winning 1 gsl title and being in code S? I would say no.
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I wanted Taeja vs Inno finals 
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people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it.
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On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it.
Or people don't only look at the latest result...
TaeJa 3-0 Zest
... and include some of the previous ones:
TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby
TaeJa 0-2 First
TaeJa 0-2 Jim
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On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim
Yes, let's include some previous results:
TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
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Jaedong and Solar fighting!
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On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
which had a better level than any premier tournament considering it was a 8man invitationnal online (only reason for it to not be a premier). If you can' t see that taeja never ever had a good results in GSL/WCS and still lose to mid tier players protoss. But farming foreigner events without real opposition is going to get you fame + that liquid bias.
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Taeja 3-0ing Zest really astonishes me. Good though Taeja may be, and shaky though Zest's PvT may sometimes look, I didn't expect Taeja to be able to roll this hard on a playoffs GSL caliber player. Guess I need to see the games.
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Oh my lord, Taeja vs. Jaedong, please tell me this is broadcasted after midnight tonight...
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never trust save bets if they will involve kr kr vs non kr kr discussion. 
Especially if the discussion before involved "has to beat code S players"
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On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational.
What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material?
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On July 19 2014 20:18 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. which had a better level than any premier tournament considering it was a 8man invitationnal online (only reason for it to not be a premier) . If you can' t see that taeja never ever had a good results in GSL/WCS and still lose to mid tier players protoss. But farming foreigner events without real opposition is going to get you fame + that liquid bias.
Were you even around when Taeja was in the gsl? Taeja was regularly making ro8+ and was still a competitive player before leaving for WCS AM at the beginning of HotS. It's not like he plummeted to code B and then left, he was in the ro16. Perhaps he doesn't do as well in gsl or other preparation-heavy tournaments but to say he's never had good results in them is ridiculous.
Also, I wouldn't say he's "farming foreigner events", this isn't 2011 anymore. high-level Korean representation post-WCS has gone through the roof. Foreigners don't win premiere events anymore. The current IEM alone had Life, Zest, Solar, Bogus, Stork, and TRUE from the gsl. 5/6 of them have been defeated by Jim, Jaedong, Taeja, and Snute. Only Solar is still alive.
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Gonna risk losing my "noble" but - Taeja is getting boring like f*ck lately, lol
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always funny people saying "taeja oinly wins tournmanets because no top code S players there"
well here you have him vs a winner, looking strong doesnt he ?
On July 19 2014 20:43 VArsovskiSC wrote:
Gonna risk losing my "noble" but - Taeja is getting boring like f*ck lately, lol
not vs pigbaby ^^
#
haha thought people cant argue now, but they rly try to say zest is bad atm etc ... its so stupid it hurts ^^
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Pigbaby 3-0 Taeja
Taeja 3-0 Zest
AMURICA CONFIRMED HARDEST REGION!!!!!
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On July 19 2014 20:35 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 20:16 Radicalness wrote:On July 19 2014 20:02 TheDwf wrote:On July 19 2014 18:47 Tanzklaue wrote:
people are saying "well, taeja doesn't play against real high level koreans [Bullshit if you ask me], he has to prove himself against a Code S veteran."
Taeja crushes Zest 3-0 and makes it look easy. and of course people try to find new excuses now so they don't have to admit that some of the koreans outside of WCS Korea are just as good as the ones in it. Or people don't only look at the latest result... TaeJa 3-0 Zest ... and include some of the previous ones: TaeJa 0-3 Pigbaby TaeJa 0-2 First TaeJa 0-2 Jim Yes, let's include some previous results: TaeJa 26-0 over a span of winning HSC, Dreamhack and ro16 of WCS America. In the meantime, Zest failed to make the finals in a non-premier tournament, the SHOUTcraft Invitational. What kind of logic is that... Zest lost 3-4 in a close series to the eventual winner. With your reasoning HuK > Zest because top4 of a Premier Tournament with a tier3 line-up is better than third at a Major event with like 6 players being GSL playoffs material?
What does Huk have to do with anything?
Don't make fun of my reasoning when you guys are arguing Zest > TaeJa when TaeJa just swept Zest. I'm not trying to discredit Zest's accomplishments or Shoutcraft or anything. TaeJa isn't even one of my favorite players. I'm just saying TaeJa and Zest were arguably the only two players who could make claims for the best player in the world right now and TaeJa just beat him 3-0.
In a month or two it could easily switch since so many more tournaments will be played over that time.
Sure, it's close right now with no player really standing out extremely over another but I think it's dumb to discredit TaeJa just because he no longer plays in the GSL. His wins over Life and Zest show that.
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EPT
