EPTCall to Action: July 11 Balance Testing - Page 7
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On July 13 2014 07:31 [PkF] Wire wrote: I kinda agree, but we're talking about buffing the widow mine even in comparison to its original state : a "strong unit" made a tad stronger has at least to be carefully monitored. I'm actually quite worried about the friendly fire aspect which will be even more dangerous with a bigger radius ; I'd have been far more comfortable with a revert to the original state (while keeping the +shields damage) but Blizzard seems to think going back to the point where things looked promising can't be a good idea and prefers to add layers of mistaken bandaid patches over another. Well it oneshots Banelings in a lower area. That might be an important variable. And yeh, then there is the friendly fire radius being increased. I clearly remember the months before the nerf where I found it difficult to use mines optimally becasue I would suffer a lot from friendly fire. But I think at that point in time, terrans had generally been a bit spoiled. During the first months of HOTS, it was quite easy to just build widow mines, drop everywhere and win without really having proper splitting control. But then zergs got overseer buff and overall learned to play vs the Mine, and terrans suddenly had to work for their victories as well. Thus, over the last 6 motnhs every terran has had insane focus on battle micro since we couldn't rely on AOE anymore. So I actually think that the dynamic that will be created here will work well. Zerg now feels a punishment for just righclicking lings into marines. They need to split them properly now. And if they do drag mines in bio units without bio units splititng properly, there is a big reward for the zerg, which is fine IMO. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On July 13 2014 07:27 ZeromuS wrote: I edited the GIF provided by Tyrhanius into the OP. If you know who made it on Reddit, I will credit them fully but I do not know who it was.  His username is "nice_username" ^^ Here is the full link : http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2aiqfj/how_the_proposed_balance_changes_look_in_game/ | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 13 2014 07:38 Hider wrote: Well it oneshots Banelings in a lower area. That might be an important variable. Which I keep saying is a mistake : with the complex combination of the first nerf, the intermediate +shields damage and this buff, we'll end up with the mine that killed templar openings without fully restoring Terran chances in TvZ. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On July 13 2014 07:42 [PkF] Wire wrote: Which I keep saying is a mistake : with the complex combination of the first nerf, the intermediate +shields damage and this buff, we'll end up with the mine that killed templar openings without fully restoring Terran chances in TvZ. Yeh so I just added a bit extra text to my post. I am not 100% sure of this subject either. But all I want for the mine in TvZ is to punish a zerg that is rightcliking/amoving his entire army. Balancewise, I think there is room to buff the Thor if there still are lategame issues. I don't believe the Mine needs to be the only unit we look at here. For TvP, I wonder if it's blizzards attention to make the Mine so "imbalanced" vs someone walking into them in a straight up battle that the protoss can never get away with that, and thus needs to kill them before the battle. I don't know how that wll work out well. I fear Psy Storm/Collosus will still kill Viking/Widow Mine quite easily. | ||
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dNa
Germany591 Posts
On July 12 2014 12:34 EngrishTeacher wrote: Really tired of hearing this argument when people fail to consider TvT. Please do post a viable and not-completely-quirky solution that limits the tank buffs to vs. P and Z only. increase damage to shields and nerf ultralisk | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 13 2014 07:44 Hider wrote: For TvP, I wonder if it's blizzards attention to make the Mine so "imbalanced" vs someone walking into them in a straight up battle that the protoss can never get away with that, and thus needs to kill them before the battle. I don't know how that wll work out well. I fear Psy Storm/Collosus will still kill Viking/Widow Mine quite easily. Don't get me wrong, that could be a great thing. But David Kim never mentioned in any of his posts any intention to (if needed) tamper with +shields damage ; it looks like he's just trying to make the mine worth using again in TvZ without thinking of the consequences in TvP (-> colossi-less styles buried for some time ; which could be good by the way, we could organize a funeral). The problem with balance test maps is that it's quite worthless for a "bad" player like me (lowish master) to test them because my adaptation to the changes will be far from optimal. I hope there's going to be some XMG hosted tournament like the last times so that we can see what the changes could look like in the hands of pros. | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
More importantly, and a grounded viking should benefit from medivac healing. That'd be really good in lategame TvP. | ||
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yoshi245
United States2974 Posts
On July 12 2014 13:03 Mjolnir wrote: So, what's the gripe here? You think tanks would be too strong in TvT if they were buffed? Bio spam would be less effective? Games would turn into positional wars and/or turtles? Is that the fear? Maybe that's not what your concern is (and if it isn't, please clarify); but if it is well man, I've gotta disagree. TvT was fantastic in BW and tanks shit all over infantry in that one. I think SC2 needs something to mix up the strats. I'd love to see more TvT mech to air strats. I'm tired of bio, bio, bio in every tournament or every game I play on b.net. Tweaking mines, Thors, and the MC are silly changes. Mines are boring and only facilitate more MMMWM (bio) play (yawn). Thor targeting is ridiculous - where's the micro? That's part of the game! And the MC nerf? Please, all the damage is done in the first 5-10 seconds. Terran needs a complete overhaul. I agree with those who want to see a tank buff. I agree. Tanks need a buff, the thor AA prioritization is grounded in good intentions and can be much more useful against Mutas, but that's basically it. Still doesn't prevent a Thor from being magic boxed to death though. I'd rather see mech based TvT something akin to BW back in the day TBH anyway. They should have nerfed the effectiveness of TW to have a reduced slow from what it is now instead of duration. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
This alone would be a better move than buffing mines. | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:04 hfsrj wrote: I think the tank should get an armor bonus when not in siege mode, do make tank pushes much more viable. More importantly, and a grounded viking should benefit from medivac healing. That'd be really good in lategame TvP. I don't think that the first is justified and the second would be even weirder than Hellbats being healed by Medivacs. I would like the tank to unsiege much faster so that you can shoot close units or retreat a little easier. Also, I would like the damage output and health of Vikings slightly increased when landed. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:50 DeadByDawn wrote: I don't think that the first is justified and the second would be even weirder than Hellbats being healed by Medivacs. I would like the tank to unsiege much faster so that you can shoot close units or retreat a little easier. Also, I would like the damage output and health of Vikings slightly increased when landed. Hmm Tanks can unsiege faster and both of the Vikings transformations can be faster as well. I don't think we have to make either unit stronger when amoved. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:41 LSN wrote: They should just nerf seeker missile and make it always hit. This would counter mutalisks and make ravens reliable. Also it requires alot of quick split micro from the zerg. PDD needs severe nerfs or removal/replacement, mass ravens can make themselvs basically invulnerable to the only kind of attacks that can damage them, which is a design flaw by itself. This alone would be a better move than buffing mines. Yeah lets nerf the only good tier2/tier 3 Unit Terran has....that would be a big nerf, Terran does not need a crappy dmg seeker that always hits. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:50 DeadByDawn wrote: I don't think that the first is justified and the second would be even weirder than Hellbats being healed by Medivacs. I would like the tank to unsiege much faster so that you can shoot close units or retreat a little easier. Also, I would like the damage output and health of Vikings slightly increased when landed. That's not weird at all. I've always thought of Medics/Medivacs as combat engineers. Surely having those on the battlefield is a lot more practical given that any wound that takes a soldier out of commission is also likely to have left him with giant holes in his combat armor. Repairing the armor must be a much higher priority. The "bio" tag is easy enough to explain - walker suits all have similar parts and designs. It's not hard for an engineer to branch off from repairing marines to marauders to hellbats to vikings. Ghosts and Reapers are the odd men out... but... you know... whatever.  | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:41 LSN wrote: They should just nerf seeker missile and make it always hit. This would counter mutalisks and make ravens reliable. Also it requires alot of quick split micro from the zerg. PDD needs severe nerfs or removal/replacement, mass ravens can make themselvs basically invulnerable to the only kind of attacks that can damage them, which is a design flaw by itself. This alone would be a better move than buffing mines. You publicly admitted that you don't play the game. Why would you nerf something that is never seen but at a lower level. Since you don't play the game, the only game you can have as a reference in the last 3 months is Flash vs Life which was an awesome game. I don't get you want that nerf so much when it's really not something that cause problem. At all. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On July 13 2014 09:49 Faust852 wrote: You publicly admitted that you don't play the game. Why would you nerf something that is never seen but at a lower level. Since you don't play the game, the only game you can have as a reference in the last 3 months is Flash vs Life which was an awesome game. I don't get you want that nerf so much when it's really not something that cause problem. At all. PDD is one of the dumbest things in the game. Get rid of that !@#$%^&* and balance mech around being good in it iself instead of relying on stupid spellcasters. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On July 13 2014 10:34 Hider wrote: PDD is one of the dumbest things in the game. Get rid of that !@#$%^&* and balance mech around being good in it iself instead of relying on stupid spellcasters. These kind of change are impossible before lotv. And I really like the PDD, it might lead to some sick play. I remember a couple of weeks ago, I don't remember who, a terran who used an early PDD to drop on the head of 12 stalkers with 2 medivacs. That was sick. PDD also is the sole unit that allow you to still do some 1/1/1 1 base allin. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On July 13 2014 10:44 Faust852 wrote: These kind of change are impossible before lotv. And I really like the PDD, it might lead to some sick play. I remember a couple of weeks ago, I don't remember who, a terran who used an early PDD to drop on the head of 12 stalkers with 2 medivacs. That was sick. PDD also is the sole unit that allow you to still do some 1/1/1 1 base allin. Tbh, your probably one of the few who enjoy it then. Sometimes you also see Collosus-drop play micro, which can be cool, but doesn't mean that unit is welldesigned. | ||
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Zanzabarr
Canada217 Posts
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On July 13 2014 10:34 Hider wrote: PDD is one of the dumbest things in the game. Get rid of that !@#$%^&* and balance mech around being good in it iself instead of relying on stupid spellcasters. The thing is that ravens will always be an integral part of the mech army due to being a detector and providing abilities that cover the weakness of the mech army. Just like the science vessel in BW. With the science vessel shutting down mutalisks, defilers and so forth, the mech army would be literally shat on. But one thing for sure is that the abilities should be tweaked somewhat. | ||
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