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Norway839 Posts
On May 08 2014 07:27 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Dear Jens,
I understand that BL would be able to break SH stalemates, but then which Z composition would be able to break a brood lord + spores vs brood lord + spores stalemate ? If we eliminate SH from the equation but end up with broodlings wars I don't think we'd have achieved much.
Brood Lords will kill the spores, Vipers can temporarily Blinding Cloud spores, Vipers will have to abduct the other side's Corruptors and Vipers, Infestors and Queens could come into play if the ground is safe. It's like in WoL, just faster and more intense, thanks to the Viper.
BL-Corruptor-Viper is one of the most expensive compositions in the game per supply (see zerg unit costs per supply) and I really wish it would be able to beat mass swarm host/spore/viper combo.
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I can see where you getting at, the change you suggest doesn't seem unreasonable.
I still think they went nuts on the spore buff and it's good to see it toned down so that it doesn't obliterate air anymore (I'd go as far as reverting it totally, mutas wars rewarded good play stale though they were). The hydra vs bio buff looks lame and doesn't make sense to me.
I'd like to see an expansion map with the change suggested by Snute and the suggested change for spore :
- Brood Lords now have a special ability that makes them unabductable.
- Spores now deal 15 + 15 bio damage.
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I think that making a max limit of how many Swarm Hosts you could have at the same time would fix the problems with how the Swarm Host games play out. If you could only have 10-12 Swarm Hosts at the same time, then I feel that the games could still be action packed as the Swarm Hosts wouldn't make the Zerg player impenetrable, but still make up a good addition to the Zerg army. Then they wouldn't slow down the ZvP match-up as much, and wouldn't go into the stalemate ZvZ matches that we saw in Lone Star Clash.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On May 08 2014 07:55 Same89 wrote:
I think that making a max limit of how many Swarm Hosts you could have at the same time would fix the problems with how the Swarm Host games play out. If you could only have 10-12 Swarm Hosts at the same time, then I feel that the games could still be action packed as the Swarm Hosts wouldn't make the Zerg player impenetrable, but still make up a good addition to the Zerg army. Then they wouldn't slow down the ZvP match-up as much, and wouldn't go into the stalemate ZvZ matches that we saw in Lone Star Clash.
Not intuitive for newer players and no reason to do that. SH-only is very easy to kill with way lower supply count.
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On May 08 2014 05:42 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 04:53 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 08 2014 03:52 Shellshock wrote:On May 08 2014 03:50 habeck wrote:On May 08 2014 02:56 whatami wrote:
There is a an extremely easy fix to this problem, do absolutely nothing else but make broodlords specifically, no other unit, but broodlords, immune to abduct. vipers abducting in pvz is necessary, just stop it as a thing in ZVZ, how hard is that? as i said, just make biological units immune to abduct, problem solved, but nobody listens  people just like dumb discussions why biological? What's wrong with being able to abduct things like infestors or the other player's vipers? I hate such specific balance changes. Can't abduct broodlord? Why, what makes the broodlord so special? That's why I agree can't abduct biological units is better. But what's the logic in not being able to abduct biological units? The Viper's tongue can only attach to metal (or shields)? Edit: Even worse; What about marines, ghosts, HT's etc?
Because its easier to make sensical lore explaining how the blah blah of vipers don't affect biological units as opposed "Broodlords too heavy dude, I can only drag motherships"
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Northern Ireland26051 Posts
People are bringing lore into it? :s
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Make it so blinding cloud not allows you to abduct units under it
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On May 08 2014 08:59 Existor wrote:
Make it so blinding cloud not allows you to abduct units under it
How does that protect Broodlords?
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What about removing the enduring locusts upgrade?
Then the zerg has to micro his swarmhosts more because the locusts don't move as far and the locusts are a little bit easier to fight against in really big numbers which means the swarmhosts have more likely to be moved back in the fight.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On May 08 2014 09:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 08:59 Existor wrote:
Make it so blinding cloud not allows you to abduct units under it How does that protect Broodlords?
If blinding cloud will defend all units from abducting, including air units too...
I'm not saying about blinding air units, only defending from being abducted.
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On May 08 2014 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
People are bringing lore into it? :s
Yet another reason to love Dota, because it just works and no one questions shit with dumb lore.
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Abduct works on Spore/Spine crawlers, rips 'em right out. Bio air can uproot a bio building.
Solved.
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Northern Ireland26051 Posts
On May 08 2014 09:17 Plansix wrote:Yet another reason to love Dota, because it just works and no one questions shit with dumb lore.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States97276 Posts
On May 08 2014 09:23 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 09:17 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2014 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
People are bringing lore into it? :s Yet another reason to love Dota, because it just works and no one questions shit with dumb lore. + Show Spoiler +
Are you trying to imply that a Viper shouldn't be able to abduct a 2-3 km diameter mothership?
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On May 08 2014 09:10 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 09:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 08 2014 08:59 Existor wrote:
Make it so blinding cloud not allows you to abduct units under it How does that protect Broodlords? If blinding cloud will defend all units from abducting, including air units too... I'm not saying about blinding air units, only defending from being abducted.
So blinding cloud affects some units differently than other units?
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On May 08 2014 09:24 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 09:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 08 2014 09:17 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2014 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
People are bringing lore into it? :s Yet another reason to love Dota, because it just works and no one questions shit with dumb lore. + Show Spoiler + Are you trying to imply that a Viper shouldn't be able to abduct a 2-3 km diameter mothership?
Do you even lift brah??
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Northern Ireland26051 Posts
On May 08 2014 09:24 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2014 09:23 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 08 2014 09:17 Plansix wrote:On May 08 2014 08:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
People are bringing lore into it? :s Yet another reason to love Dota, because it just works and no one questions shit with dumb lore. + Show Spoiler + Are you trying to imply that a Viper shouldn't be able to abduct a 2-3 km diameter mothership?
Whatever gave you that idea? :p
The actual game as I understand only makes any kind of sense if units aren't individual units but representative of collections of unit types weighted in some way corresponding to their size.
So in effect marines don't go around stutterstepping, but it's a graphical representation of the aggregative behaviour of whole platoons and their combat behaviour etc
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I hope they are still willing to try something else and don't go through with the spore/hydra change after testing it. Just make Broodlors immune to abduct. Thanks for updating the thread btw.
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A small number of Mutas isn't a big deal, it's when there are 20+ and they are flying around instantly killing stuff that they become a problem. If they revert the spore buff, mass Mutas won't care about spores at all (similar to turrets or cannons) and the only direct counter will be Hydras. The problem with Hydras is, they are not fast enough if you get caught out of position and your base / drones are going to die. Depending on the buff to Hydras, Mutas might not even be able to engage in a straight up fight, which could result in a base trade scenario, just what this game needs...
Just hypothetical I guess, but neither option looks any good to me.
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On May 08 2014 09:36 GiveMeCake wrote:
A small number of Mutas isn't a big deal, it's when there are 20+ and they are flying around instantly killing stuff that they become a problem. If they revert the spore buff, mass Mutas won't care about spores at all (similar to turrets or cannons) and the only direct counter will be Hydras. The problem with Hydras is, they are not fast enough if you get caught out of position and your base / drones are going to die. Depending on the buff to Hydras, Mutas might not even be able to engage in a straight up fight, which could result in a base trade scenario, just what this game needs...
Just hypothetical I guess, but neither option looks any good to me.
Or instead of reverting the spore buff they simply nerf the buff and give +bio to both Spores and Hydras but in smaller numbers for each.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i2.minus.com/idKJOHIciRf0E.jpg)
