EPTDiamond to Masters: Making the Jump
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:02 Doc Brawler wrote: To anyone who has recently made it to Masters after a long stint in diamond, what was the biggest difference in Masters? Advice for poor scrubs trying to take one more step towards the promised land? I was 4th rank of master 2 seasons ago and I still suck a lot with 80~ish apm. Not big difference, even GM has some really bad players. Just play and enjoy. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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jyuj
Australia103 Posts
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:02 Doc Brawler wrote: To anyone who has recently made it to Masters after a long stint in diamond, what was the biggest difference in Masters? Advice for poor scrubs trying to take one more step towards the promised land? I'm in the same spot now. I'm top 8 in my diamond division, but I'm not being matched up against any Masters yet.... | ||
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
I'm currently only Diamond, but I have been Masters league a few times. Whenever I get my promotions as Zerg I notice it's just from playing much more solid. It doesn't involve any tricky strategy or tactics. More about decision making based on solid scouting and good macro. | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
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t e a C h e r
Canada151 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:44 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I'm in the same spot now. I'm top 8 in my diamond division, but I'm not being matched up against any Masters yet.... ur rank does not really matter, it means you are still playing at a diamond level because of the hidden mmr. You dont have to be top8 in diamond to get master, u can be 50+. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:25 jyuj wrote: You can still 4 gate into Masters on NA and EU. Nothing has changed. well not everyone is protoss you know? and some of us still have dignity and stick to their race. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I think it comes down to what race you play, what your style is, and what your weak points are. I think enough styles are viable even into GM that it's hard to say that one particular thing is the differentiating factor. Here's my very very vague attempt at an explanation (and this is just my view of what I see on ladder): For Zerg - I think Masters Zergs are better at scouting (denying proxy pylons, identifying cheese) and at knowing when to drone and when to make units. For Terran - I think the biggest difference between Masters and Diamond is that their macro doesn't slip as much while they're putting on aggression. I play Diamond players who drop me really effectively but lose anyway because I just macroed harder than them.. happens much less with Masters players doing equal quality harass. For Protoss - The harass is stronger, the build orders are sharper (same timing attack hits 30 seconds to 1 minute faster), and there is CONSIDERABLY less 1A syndrome... they don't bunch their Templar as much, they don't take all their units and leave nothing at home to defend, etc. That's just my view, from facing Masters and Diamond opponents. | ||
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Bratsche
United States46 Posts
I simply decided that I would never get supply blocked. It was my number one priority. I had a good enough grip on the builds, strategies. I had and still do have pretty awful army control. But to go from Diamond to Masters, I only changed one thing and that was to simply NEVER get supply blocked. | ||
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Makuly
Taiwan54 Posts
a GM friend of mine made a new account and went 75-3 before hitting masters. So you see it's pretty ridiculous. | ||
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jyuj
Australia103 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:55 SpikeStarcraft wrote: well not everyone is protoss you know? and some of us still have dignity and stick to their race. I know not everyone is Protoss, there are two other races in the game. I think Blizzard built them into the game, so it would be hard to miss them. I dont know why playing just one race means having dignity which is what I think you are implying?_? On a side note I have played Protoss since 98. DAMN since 98? Yeah since 98. | ||
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KingKayzz
33 Posts
In masters: Terran - Players actually have BOs. (Honestly. It took getting to Masters to frigging start seeing Terran BOs in ladder.) It's really cool to go from seeing weird, obviously not optimized builds in Diamond, to suddenly seeing T players using strategies that we see in pro-league and stuff. Changed the way I looked at the MU. Protoss - I was wondering where all the protoss were on my way to master. That's where I found them all - 4 gate, oracles, busts... everything comes sooner... and alot stronger. Zerg - I can't say much about TvZ. Every zerg under master died to Hellion/Banshee. Now, every zerg at Masters dies Hellion/Banshee into double thor. I guess TvZ needs to be figured out by zerg, cuz it really seems a bit too easy. Other stuff: I've played a couple of pros... now I know why they are called pros. loool It's tough having a really high win % in a certain MU, then a pro comes in and owns you with his first 3 units. It is eye openings! Makes you respect the guys at the very top. lol Seriously, other than that, you will find yourself wondering how half of the people you play made it into Masters and the other half wondering why 80% of the people you play have a need to MSG you after a game to call you a noob, regardless of whether you won or lost. -.- | ||
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AprilTerran
United States56 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:02 Doc Brawler wrote: To anyone who has recently made it to Masters after a long stint in diamond, what was the biggest difference in Masters? Advice for poor scrubs trying to take one more step towards the promised land? They're easier to 2 rax. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24877 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:55 SpikeStarcraft wrote: well not everyone is protoss you know? and some of us still have dignity and stick to their race. You can 3 Rax all-in or Baneling Bust if you are a dignified diamond individual. | ||
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SsoL
32 Posts
On April 03 2014 02:03 DinoMight wrote: For Terran - I think the biggest difference between Masters and Diamond is that their macro doesn't slip as much while they're putting on aggression. I play Diamond players who drop me really effectively but lose anyway because I just macroed harder than them.. happens much less with Masters players doing equal quality harass. Very good point. I agree | ||
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
On April 03 2014 02:29 KingKayzz wrote: Seriously, other than that, you will find yourself wondering how half of the people you play made it into Masters and the other half wondering why 80% of the people you play have a need to MSG you after a game to call you a noob, regardless of whether you won or lost. -.- I love it when people call me a noob after I win the game. Or they balance whine. And don't forget players love to lecture you on how APM = skill. Best Tip I got was to stop balance whining and complaining about every little thing and focus on improving anyway you can. | ||
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LOLZEY
Canada71 Posts
2. Slightly better mechanics. Better micro, macro and overall multitasking. APM is actually around the same as Diamonds, but Master players are usually more efficient. 3. Tighter build orders that actually make sense. Overall the biggest difference between a Diamond and a Masters player is their decision-making IMO. Knowing when to attack, when to retreat and when to expand. | ||
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nobodywonder
United States848 Posts
You can also figure what to do when something goes wrong. Also by sticking to one build order, the macro should be eventually second-nature and you can micro better. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Can anticipate aggression based on scouting Better engagements (There are so many times when a terran throws away 120 supply for 3 colossus, it's disgusting) this is kr diamond -> master, not sure if different in other server but should be same | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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torJey
Russian Federation6 Posts
I'm currently a high diamond player (getting about 2 masters per 5 games in my ladder) and been there since beta lol. I just played from time to time, always being that diamond guy. I tried to push the masters at the end of WoL and didn't succeed due to my work and here goes the second attempt, having played almost 700 games this season i unrusted and got in a decent shape. As a zerg player i feel like getting consistent is the most difficult thing and what sets diamond and masters caliber players aside. My ZvP is horrible, i can win a mid masters player who goes some all-in or fast 3rd Nexus if i scout right and drone to the max or i can lose to a simple one base 4gate, because i misread the proxy DT rush or smt. In other MUs i can rely on my scouting and actually get consistent results, knowing why do i lose and improving, so i think this might be the jump for me. I really hope to get promoted in the next season, i've been playing this game for too damn long and tryharding for half of a year daily is a really tiring thing :/ | ||
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bartus88
Netherlands491 Posts
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Ryuhou)aS(
United States1174 Posts
On April 03 2014 03:54 Rickyvalle21 wrote: I honestly don't think to high diamond to master is not that big of a difference at all. In fact there a lot of diamonds who are better then masters. I'm 2300 point master and I can match and win vs low grandmasters but occasionally lose to them diamond players so I don't think it's a big difference. This might be due to ladder being kinda dead aswell. this right here. there's not a huge difference between high diamond and entry masters. Top masters is a little different, but basically everythings much faster (timings, micro, macro, literally everything). Also, one of my friends was GM for a while in wings and the first few seasons of hots, and he almost always lost to diamonds (he would always blame the quirky builds that he scouts and misinterprets whats coming based off the other masters/GM players being more efficient) I also wanna make a point here that you need to remember, it's still just a game. a Game! ranks don't really mean anything, and you should concentrate on having fun while playing. (understandably winning is more fun but "grinding" or forcing yourself to play takes away some of the enjoyment of it) ...dont get burned out like i did...i guess is what im saying | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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Waise
3165 Posts
On April 03 2014 07:57 JacobShock wrote: I have yet to make the jump. I am simply too inconsistent. I believe my mechanics are there. At least low master league. I just make silly mistakes, get tunnel vision etc. When I am not confident in myself I play accordingly. I think one of the most important things to get to master league, is just to be consistent. If there is too big of difference between your best level of play and your absolute worst it's not going to happen. At least that's my point of view. honestly i think you can replace this post with any two leagues. "i'm gold but i think my mechanics are there to make it to plat, i just make silly mistakes, get tunnel vision etc." the way human psychology works, we tend to try to find logic in all things, but sometimes we try too hard and find patterns that aren't really there (hence people who believe in conspiracies etc.) everyone's ladder experience will be skewed by what they are strong/weak with as a player, you can't really generalize entire leagues to mean anything other than an overall progression of skill - skill meaning "ability to win games." there are lots of variables. only difference is as you get higher in league there are fewer and fewer windows to do random shit like infestor drops and still make it work because of mechanical gaps. back when i was in gold i used to try crazy shit and succeed with it, but as i started facing stronger opponents i realized that the weaknesses in my build were being exploited more and more i think that's the best way to sum it up. "the higher the league, the more your weaknesses will be exploited" | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
On April 03 2014 01:25 jyuj wrote: You can still 4 gate into Masters on NA and EU. Nothing has changed. u can actually 6pool into Masters on NA requires heavy micro battles but its doable | ||
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ktimekiller
United States690 Posts
You can imagine leagues as arbitrary "goals" in a singular track that everyone is in. It is entirely possible for you to be playing against the very same players as a low masters player as a high diamond player and notice no significant difference in the quality of games as you get promoted, minus the shiny badge on your profile. For example, let us say a high diamond of MMR 10 (note, not actual values) plays against players within the range of 8-12 while a low masters player with an MMR of 11 plays against players within the range of 9-13. There is an obvious overlap of the range of players that the diamond and master players play against, and thus a league promotion does not necessarily change the quality of players that you face, but rather the difference in MMR between a typical diamond and masters players allows you to face different range of players. | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
On April 03 2014 03:02 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: I love it when people call me a noob after I win the game. Or they balance whine. And don't forget players love to lecture you on how APM = skill. Best Tip I got was to stop balance whining and complaining about every little thing and focus on improving anyway you can. Typical people on NA to whine and calling noob even on high masters. Surprising i don get this on KR ladder maybe cause they don english lol. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
But really, as lots of people have pointed out you can get to masters off the back of a single really refined timing attack for each matchup. If you have 'correct', quick, refined responses responses to a majority of the bullshit your opponent can throw at you and 'good' micro / macro, you will probably hit masters, and this is easier to do the shorter you make your games / the more aggressively you play. | ||
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