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StarGraphed: IEM and SSC Analysis in Pictures

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
March 17 2014 23:36 GMT
#1
Hello, once again.

So, the guys over at IEM have released the replays for the tournament pretty much as the last game was finishing.

I've grabbed them and, after fighting with the fact that some of them were made using the Korean client (Blizzard please standardise your replay files!), have some information about the games that may or may not be interesting to you all.

This was done using what I've written over here, which I will be releasing once I've added Starbow functionality and removed the Python dependency.

TL;DR
- Pros are consistent
- Matchups swing back and forth over time
- We can probably find optimal scouting routes
- Protoss players hate the middle of the map
- People attacked right to left and top to bottom. Most fights happened on the left or bottom of the map.

Item 1 - Pro players are consistent.
"Well, duh" you might be thinking, but to me the numbers were striking.
Let's look at our favourite build of the semi-finals, the 6+ Gate blink attack. We'll focus on herO's execution for this.
[image loading]

You can see from this that herO's execution of his gateway + blink build doesn't seem to depend on the map too much. 3 games and the Nexus timing is out by at most 2 seconds from each other. It was possible to see from watching the games that he had even the timing of Polt's SCV to avoid the scout!
The slowest build was finished at most no more the fastest.
From the build overview screen we can see that the whole build is timed to pretty much perfection:
[image loading]

It shows through skill levels, too.
Looking at our now eternal friend Scoobers:
[image loading]

What's this down to? Is it lack of stacking? Not paying enough attention? Extra base scouting before depot placement? Nerves?

Switching to Taeja:
[image loading]
All within a much narrower window. Wrists be damned.

However, builds aren't everything:
[image loading]
Highlighted is Polt vs herO. The W and L I have added to the image to show the builds that won and lost. You can see the builds he won his units were out LATER than when he lost. This suggests that it's not something you can just be better at your build to beat. Which, in honesty, sucks.

Item 2 - There's a time and a place for you.

[image loading]
Zerg seems to have a window where their builds come through.
As you can see, as well, even though Zergs didn't feature in RO4 onwards, they won 50% of their games against Protoss.
After 20 mintues, though. Zerg won 3/12 games.

[image loading]
Protoss 20 - 13 Terran.
A larger difference, here. Terran seem to have more of a midgame presence. If you can live past 10 minutes you stand a chance! It's pretty much 50/50 past then.

[image loading]
Zerg 13 - 8 Terran
Interesting for me here is that Zerg lost 0 games before the 18 minute mark.

Also on this build front it looks like certain builds have phased out. The Protoss vs Zerg build of going early 4 gates and attacking with zealots to deny a 3rd was used ONCE during the tournament. It lost. I guess there wre only 5 PvZ games in the whole tournament, though, so don't read much into that!

Item 3 - Watch Towers aren't always the best places to camp out
Again, focussing on Blink v T:
[image loading]

So, whether you have your worker on the watch tower or not, it might be worthwhile having a force around there (especially if it's more marauder heavy - research concussive first?) to deny early 2 stalker + probe moveout. It seems that the blink build is only really powerful if there are actually stalkers there, and you can see that there aren't many other pylons around (the others were placed much earlier, maybe different builds?) then it might deny the build before it starts.

I'm actually really interested in this aspect and I will be looking through all the maps over time to see if I can come up with the best scouting routes or locations to either shut down or disrupt particular builds.

Item 4 - Protoss games end up with fights anywhere but the middle of the map
Protoss games seem to end up with more straight up aggression or defense. I assume this is because at the start there's a lot of aggressive openings and later on nobody wants to engage a deathball if they can help it:
[image loading]

Item 5 - People like attacking from the right to the left, or from the top to the bottom
This one REALLY interests me.
Check it out:
[image loading]

More markedly:
[image loading]

Again, pretty strongly on Heavy Rain:
[image loading]

Finally, pray you don't spawn bottom left on Frost:
[image loading]

So those are the questions that could think of to answer with the IEM games.

I'm interested in questions you may have about high level analysis of games. Think about:
- Build information
- Building Placement
- Maps
- Player Stats
- Anything else you can come up with

Any questions on here I will reply to. If I can I'll add them to this post, too, so they're easily viewable.

Thanks for reading! Post 2 will contain the same for Seat Story Cup!
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-17 23:58:00
March 17 2014 23:36 GMT
#2
StarGraphed Seat Story Cup Analysis

So, as I was doing IEM's post, SSC released their replays.
A look over the game analysis doesn't throw up such striking information as IEM, but there's stuff here we can talk about.

TL;DR
- You can always improve your build timings
- Game times vs Race Wins is not consistent with the IEM games
- That one game on heavy rain broke my analysis
- Being aggressive to the left and bottom of the map is consistent with the IEM games

Item 1 - You can always improve your build timings
For a case in point here I'm going to look at Harstem's build:
[image loading]
Up to and including the Nexus starting at 3:47.

Now, look at herO doing the same opening a few times:
[image loading]
This build is 10 seconds faster up and and including the Nexus starting.

What I take away from this is no matter who you are or how well you think you've refined your build, you can always make it faster.
Never. Stop. Practicing.

Item 2 - Game times vs Race Wins is not consistent with IEM
[image loading]
Game shifts heavily to Terran after early Protoss presense. This is mostly in line with IEM's matches.

[image loading]
Protoss is shut out of the game after 20 minutes, and even struggles after as little as 10. This is completely counter to IEM.

[image loading]
TvZ is neither here nor there for the most part. Zerg have a 5 minute window in the mid-game time-frame. Similar to the IEM findings.

Item 3 - That one game on heavy rain broke my analysis
Even so, it looks cool
[image loading]
The fight progresses from the edges of the map to the middle over time as bases and units both run out. There's a storm coming, and it's coming towards the middle.

Item 4 - Being aggressive to the left and bottom of the map is consistent with the IEM games
It wasn't just IEM where being on the left or bottom spawn meant the fight was at your base more
[image loading]
At least there was a fight in the middle here!

[image loading]
Bottom spawn's 3rd takes a beating!

[image loading]
The fight's not all at the bottom left this time, but again left is where the action is

Lastly...
[image loading]
Why even bother being at the top of the map? Nothing going on!

That's it from the SSC Replays. Again, if you have anything you want answered, let me know. Try to specify which tournament you're interested in if it's not applicable to both.
Thanks for reading my text and looking at my pictures!
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
iHirO
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1381 Posts
March 17 2014 23:42 GMT
#3
Those heat maps look really cool.
GraphicsThis is for all you new people: I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one quits. You don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself. You get me?
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12909 Posts
March 17 2014 23:48 GMT
#4
This is cool cool stuff.
Very interesting as well, I wonder if the attack pattern occurs is due to the camera angle and psychological effect more than anything else
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
EpicDemente
Profile Joined November 2012
Chile202 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-17 23:54:33
March 17 2014 23:53 GMT
#5
there is a clear reason why protoss dont like the middle, its normally more open so storms/ff/colossus doesnt work as well
"Fight your heart out for what you want"
Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
March 18 2014 00:09 GMT
#6
On March 18 2014 08:53 EpicDemente wrote:
there is a clear reason why protoss dont like the middle, its normally more open so storms/ff/colossus doesnt work as well

A good point. In a lot of the maps, though, even ones like Habitation Station, there are usually at least some ramps/walls in the middle of the map that can be used. Not quite the same as a gateway + FF wall, though, I'll grant you!
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
Darkdwarf
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Sweden960 Posts
March 18 2014 00:24 GMT
#7
This was very interesting. Thanks for the stats!
Teams: IM, Jin Air, Invictus || Players: Maru, GuMiho, INnoVation, Ryung, sOs, Squirtle, NaNiwa, Has, Zoun, Life, Rogue, Dark
NiTroSc2
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States144 Posts
March 18 2014 00:39 GMT
#8
very interesting!
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-18 01:18:01
March 18 2014 01:17 GMT
#9
I love this!

Recently, the creator of the gameheart-map asked for suggestions on reddit for what to do with a feature they are developing that makes it possible to extract replay-information every 5 seconds while a game is being played. I suggested something akin to this - that it might make it possible to compare the game being played with a database of games live in a broadcast. Well, here is a piece of software that looks at replays and try to extract information useful in just this way. Cool!

I think we are way too often in the dark when it comes to builds and execution. Is this a common build? Is it being executed well? Is it generally successful? How do the builds of the two players match up? Is the player performing better or worse than what he usually is? It would bring so much life to the generally uneventful early game of SC2 (as a spectator, that is). And it's pretty damn interesting in itself!

There is so much potential in what statistics about the hundred thousands of games registered in aligulac (or, maybe more realistically, the thousands of games from recent tournaments) could bring to the live casting of SC2. I'm envious of what Dota 2 is able to do with win-rates, timings of items etc. It would take work, but it could enhance the experience of watching SC2 a lot, I think.

With a database of parsed replays, it might even be possible to do some statistical work on the material to extract common/repeating build-orders and thus skip the manual step of defining the parameters yourself. When players break the mold, we would be aware as the database of known builds are unable to recognize timing or build order.

Oh, what could be ^^

Great work!
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
March 18 2014 01:27 GMT
#10
The heatmaps are quite interesting. On a 2 player map, one would generally expect symmetry (even on a 4 player map really, but you'd need more games for that to happen). But if you look at polar night for example, there are quite some differences between the 2 sides.
Maybe the sample size just isnt large enough to even out all relevant factors, but it's still quite funny to see.
TimKim0713
Profile Joined June 2012
Korea (South)221 Posts
March 18 2014 01:31 GMT
#11
nice
DrDeep
Profile Joined January 2011
16 Posts
March 18 2014 01:42 GMT
#12
Where did u download the replays?
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
March 18 2014 01:45 GMT
#13
On March 18 2014 10:42 DrDeep wrote:
Where did u download the replays?


You can get them here
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 18 2014 02:18 GMT
#14
Awesome research. You sir have passion.
Holdenintherye
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada1441 Posts
March 18 2014 02:24 GMT
#15
Wow this is some legit cool stuff. Just love the fight frequency maps, really useful to know.
Thanks!
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
March 18 2014 02:38 GMT
#16
Nice work Sir!~,,,,Hats off to you for providing these details to this sweet sweet game!
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
March 18 2014 03:07 GMT
#17
Man, those 'heat' maps have my statistics feels going

Thanks!
Isarios
Profile Joined March 2014
United States153 Posts
March 18 2014 03:26 GMT
#18
This is amazing stuff! Though the sample size is small and I'm having some difficulty following a few of the ideas. Nice research though.
Blahhh
Val_
Profile Joined May 2010
Ukraine156 Posts
March 18 2014 03:31 GMT
#19
you are great

i was always looking for something to analyze my replays - i used sc2gears and even wrote some scripts for it with stats

waiting for release <3
AKA [7x]Val / GML Terran EU
Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
March 18 2014 09:20 GMT
#20
Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Yeah, the sample size is small for the heat maps, but the finding is consistent across all games!

My problem with doing all this is that I'm in about Gold League so I don't always know what to ask. The mathematician in me knows how to answer the questions I can ask, but outside of that I'm stuffed!

I'm looking to release the program within a couple of days. I think I've found a way around my issue with py2exe.
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
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