On March 09 2014 23:26 LA_Morello wrote: I see so many people blaming organizations and the community. Am I the only one who feels that SC2 is the problem?
If the game was as interesting to watch as it was years ago, the number of viewers wouldn't drastically drop in mid 2012~2013. Imo, HotS isn't so fun to play. Playing vs Terran in Lost Temple years ago was imbalanced, but holy shit that was so fun.
I migrate from SC2 to Dota 2 mostly because the game isn't as fun as it was anymore.
Bollocks frankly. Early GSL was shit, early tournaments in general were shit. The meta was underdeveloped, things were imbalanced as hell, far more so than they are now, there were fewer viable options, the maps sucked, PvP was an utter joke. Who can forget of course the 6+ months of ZvZ finals resulting from Broodlord/Infestor being monumentally broken.
On March 09 2014 17:18 Powerpill wrote: So long Nasal (how I pronounce it =P ) Remember watching some good games, thanks for the memories.
haha yea, don't forget the "controversy" about the name of the league. How some people thought N-A-S-L was stupid name because people will pronounce is nasal, and others going "well nobody pronounces GSL/MSL/OSL gissle or mizzle or ossle no?" I stopped paying attention to sc2 scenes in general cerca 2nd half of 2011, but I remember all the problems that plagued NASL during S1. The name, The audio problem, The audition videos, The "should NASL invite koreans or not", The iNcontroL's announcement of announcement. People not showing up for matches (specifically remember Painuser not showing up for his matches against Boxer and he was subsequently burned at the stake in forums). Hype, skepticism, expectation, hope. Even though I am not emotionally attached to NASL, it is kind of saddening to see it go since I paid a lot of attention to it during it's birth.
It would be interesting to see if Red Bull want to take up the WCS NA position. It would definitely solidfy themselves in the scene but perhaps they want to do their own thing like they are already doing. Then again ESL do WCS and their own thing.
On March 09 2014 23:26 LA_Morello wrote: I see so many people blaming organizations and the community. Am I the only one who feels that SC2 is the problem?
If the game was as interesting to watch as it was years ago, the number of viewers wouldn't drastically drop in mid 2012~2013. Imo, HotS isn't so fun to play. Playing vs Terran in Lost Temple years ago was imbalanced, but holy shit that was so fun.
I migrate from SC2 to Dota 2 mostly because the game isn't as fun as it was anymore.
Bollocks frankly. Early GSL was shit, early tournaments in general were shit. The meta was underdeveloped, things were imbalanced as hell, far more so than they are now, there were fewer viable options, the maps sucked, PvP was an utter joke. Who can forget of course the 6+ months of ZvZ finals resulting from Broodlord/Infestor being monumentally broken.
A huge part of why viewers would want to stay up to watch the game is BECAUSE of the things you've enumerated above. Its the excitement of figuring shit out that attracted many people. And now that the metagame and utilities have settled, the gameplay stagnated.
On March 09 2014 23:26 LA_Morello wrote: I see so many people blaming organizations and the community. Am I the only one who feels that SC2 is the problem?
If the game was as interesting to watch as it was years ago, the number of viewers wouldn't drastically drop in mid 2012~2013. Imo, HotS isn't so fun to play. Playing vs Terran in Lost Temple years ago was imbalanced, but holy shit that was so fun.
I migrate from SC2 to Dota 2 mostly because the game isn't as fun as it was anymore.
Don't worry. In another 2 years you'll be complaining about DotA 2 as well. Plenty of people whine about how stale/boring the games get already.
People get bored of things after several years. That's just how games work.
This has been a very eye opening thread to me in regards to what it takes to put on a tournament for SC2. I knew a lot went into it but I never really grasped how there was little to no return on the investment taken in it.
Now, in my opinion (this just coming from an amateur broadcast nobody) is that inherently, SC2 has quite a bit of downtime with little to nothing to fill the space. Where as in most other sports broadcasts, you get 1 to 5 minute commercial breaks, because of the medium that eSports is shown to the masses, that isn't a viable option as pointed out by TB. You either get people adblocking the ads or having no way of playing different ads for different regions because it is all being broadcast out of one central location to everywhere instead of affiliates that have control over the air space like sportscasts do.
I think that the format is also a bit harsh on people who aren't hardcore fans. I, for one, would love to be able to watch 12 hours of a tournament stream in a day but I work 60 hours a week and have a fiance that would rather not see me sitting in front of a computer screen watching SC all day (she still watches it with me bless her heart) Think about poker tournaments in this respect. You never see a poker tournament where they focus on one table and show you absolutely every hand being played, even the boring everybody folds hands. No, they cut to only the hands where some action is being shown.
To relate this to SC2, how much of the games is literally just watching the same build happen 40 times in a tournament. 9 pylon/13gate, 15pool/14hatch, 13rax over and over again and again. Very little variation comes from the beginning of the game (you get the occasional cannon rush, 9pool, proxy reaper builds but very rarely and if it does, its met with vitriol "fucking cheesers!") This does not appeal to a broader audience. It appeals to the hardcore SC2 fan but they are becoming fewer in numbers here in NA. Again, how can we keep the attention of an audience for 12 to 18 hours of a day. It is literally impossible.
I think what SC2 and eSports in general needs a shot of is actual editing. Of course, this takes money, time and actual professionals to pull it off. SC2 can never be poker and will never have the financial backing poker does but why can't there be a stylized recap show that shows the best of what happened at a particular tournament. Combine 12 hours of content and get it down to an hour or two? Again, this is just hypothetical and can never happen without both community and sponsor support. What hurts is there is no tv station out there that is going to run an hour long anything dedicated to an eSport and we already know the problem inherent with broadcasting over Twitch with adblock. So, I don't know how anybody could get this to work but this is what I want when I think of the future of SC2 and eSports in general. I, myself, am a busy person and having something that I could digest in bite sizes of an hour would be awesome! I miss so many tournaments because I have no free time that if I could watch a show (with lots of ads and sponsor messages "This segment brought to you by Dr. Pepper, 23 flavors of awesomeness!) that recaps all the amazing highlights of a tournament without me having to go through 1000+ posts on the tournament or sit through VODs of the matches to see what matches were worth watching and what was crap, then I'd be a happy SC2 fan.
Again, this is all opinion and probably already thought of and executed a hundred times over but I love this sport and want to see it flourish. Seeing things like NASL folding just made my heart hurt.
On March 09 2014 23:26 LA_Morello wrote: I see so many people blaming organizations and the community. Am I the only one who feels that SC2 is the problem?
If the game was as interesting to watch as it was years ago, the number of viewers wouldn't drastically drop in mid 2012~2013. Imo, HotS isn't so fun to play. Playing vs Terran in Lost Temple years ago was imbalanced, but holy shit that was so fun.
I migrate from SC2 to Dota 2 mostly because the game isn't as fun as it was anymore.
Don't worry. In another 2 years you'll be complaining about DotA 2 as well. Plenty of people whine about how stale/boring the games get already.
People get bored of things after several years. That's just how games work.
I do wish to point out that dota is a significantly different game from patch to patch.
I miss NASL and I would love to hear the story behind the scenes surrounding the organization, from start to finish. It is unfortunate that they have to go out this way.
On March 09 2014 23:26 LA_Morello wrote: I see so many people blaming organizations and the community. Am I the only one who feels that SC2 is the problem?
If the game was as interesting to watch as it was years ago, the number of viewers wouldn't drastically drop in mid 2012~2013. Imo, HotS isn't so fun to play. Playing vs Terran in Lost Temple years ago was imbalanced, but holy shit that was so fun.
I migrate from SC2 to Dota 2 mostly because the game isn't as fun as it was anymore.
Don't worry. In another 2 years you'll be complaining about DotA 2 as well. Plenty of people whine about how stale/boring the games get already.
People get bored of things after several years. That's just how games work.
I do wish to point out that dota is a significantly different game from patch to patch.
I miss NASL and I would love to hear the story behind the scenes surrounding the organization, from start to finish. It is unfortunate that they have to go out this way.
How different the game gets doesn't matter. Some portion of the population will leave or claim it is boring, because they get bored. It happens to everyone and everything.
I remember at the beginning of NASL, InControl would infintely repeat how the league is financially set for some time ahead and how everything is gonna be great and funded, but always refused to comment on whose money that acutally is ... and then the league itself turned to be somewhat terrible, so I stopped following it. But that I was reminede of it, I really want to now: was it ever revelaed, who payed for the whole thing?
On March 10 2014 11:11 opisska wrote: I remember at the beginning of NASL, InControl would infintely repeat how the league is financially set for some time ahead and how everything is gonna be great and funded, but always refused to comment on whose money that acutally is ... and then the league itself turned to be somewhat terrible, so I stopped following it. But that I was reminede of it, I really want to now: was it ever revelaed, who payed for the whole thing?
People usually make up lies about state of things and disguise it up when things are going sour.
For example: STX president said that they'll keep sponsoring the team but it end up being the total opposite.
On March 10 2014 11:11 opisska wrote: I remember at the beginning of NASL, InControl would infintely repeat how the league is financially set for some time ahead and how everything is gonna be great and funded, but always refused to comment on whose money that acutally is ... and then the league itself turned to be somewhat terrible, so I stopped following it. But that I was reminede of it, I really want to now: was it ever revelaed, who payed for the whole thing?
People usually make up lies about state of things and disguise it up when things are going sour.
For example: STX president said that they'll keep sponsoring the team but it end up being the total opposite.
NASL ran for two years on its own funding. I know people on TL have a bloated sense of scale, but that definitely qualifies as "financially set for some time ahead".
On March 10 2014 11:11 opisska wrote: I remember at the beginning of NASL, InControl would infintely repeat how the league is financially set for some time ahead and how everything is gonna be great and funded, but always refused to comment on whose money that acutally is ... and then the league itself turned to be somewhat terrible, so I stopped following it. But that I was reminede of it, I really want to now: was it ever revelaed, who payed for the whole thing?
People usually make up lies about state of things and disguise it up when things are going sour.
For example: STX president said that they'll keep sponsoring the team but it end up being the total opposite.
Hey. At the very beginning, InControl could have been absolutely right. At that time. Several years ago. It's not like Geoff was on stream last week saying "Guys, guys. It's fine. There is tons of money to keep this thing running." At the start, it probably was set financially to run for some time. And that time ran out.
I appreciate NASL for bringing in unconventional sponsors. Non-tech, non-gaming companies - and I appreciate those sponsors for taking a chance. In the long run it didn't work, but they were trying. (I got a great response to the letter I wrote to LA Bite thanking them for taking that chance, from the head of the company. Even though I told them outright I couldn't possibly use their service for geographical reasons.)
On March 10 2014 11:11 opisska wrote: I remember at the beginning of NASL, InControl would infintely repeat how the league is financially set for some time ahead and how everything is gonna be great and funded, but always refused to comment on whose money that acutally is ... and then the league itself turned to be somewhat terrible, so I stopped following it. But that I was reminede of it, I really want to now: was it ever revelaed, who payed for the whole thing?
People usually make up lies about state of things and disguise it up when things are going sour.
For example: STX president said that they'll keep sponsoring the team but it end up being the total opposite.
NASL ran for two years on its own funding. I know people on TL have a bloated sense of scale, but that definitely qualifies as "financially set for some time ahead".
Two years is a long time to be running on venture capital. When Incontrol said that, they may have likely be set for what he felt was the "near future." It is a super subjective phrase.
honestly, despite the shit talk of the foreign scene and how korea is everything in starcraft, nasl was the only one with the quality of production that fits the modern standards with how esports is viewed with all the big MOBAs and stuff. I've been HUGE on starcraft for so long, but I just don't feel it anymore (for a lot of reasons). I was very impressed at how the NASL ran and am very sad to hear this T_T.
EPT
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