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On January 02 2014 14:24 BrieFanFiction wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 12:05 NoobSkills wrote:On January 02 2014 08:52 Finalmastery wrote:On January 02 2014 08:48 NoobSkills wrote:On January 02 2014 08:43 Finalmastery wrote:On January 02 2014 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 02 2014 08:09 ZodaSoda wrote:On January 02 2014 08:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 02 2014 08:00 ZodaSoda wrote:On January 02 2014 03:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
This is the reason I come to Teamliquid, to have random forum posters inform me of what my team is and isn't. Right, random forum poster who has been following and organizing the way teams are recognized in Starcraft longer than you've been interested in the game... Take your attitude somewhere else on this one Biscuitboy Why is it so important to you people call Axiom a "Korean" team anyway? its not going to happen if you keep calling it your team and you keep telling us that you pay them and that you organize their flights, and without GSTL now, Axiom not in Proleague, you're as far as you can get from being a proper "Korean" team in the meaning of the phrase coming from the BW days... at best you're a International team who happens to only sign Koreans, if TL dropped all their players except for Taeja and HerO would that make Liquid a Korean team? no... But of course i get ahead of my self here, I'm talking to you of all people and whats in your mind is right! can't argue with that... It's cute that the Broodwar Elitists are still around and still as snippy as ever. I'm a Starcraft 2 Elitist if anything lol, run along manchild. Take your cancerous attitude elsewhere. Your Brood War definitions are meaningless in SC2 and it's hilarious that you think you can tell a team what they are and are not considered to be. Stop bickering you two this is about making sure Hyun gets what he deserves! Having an argument over stupid stuff isn't helpful. >.> This thread is about informing people what happened to Hyun not getting Hyun his money because let's be honest it is complexity. And the thread is also for a debate over nothing for the past page or so. Yeah I guess this is true. What I really want to see is accountability for teams this year. Hopefully this coming to light at the beginning of the year will lead to change. I also know this probably won't happen but I would love to see a lawsuit actually go through against Simon, he's done this a few times already and maybe if some legal action happens stuff will shape up. >.> No legal action will happen. The costs of trying to get the money from Simon would equal the amount of money owed in the end most likely. That isn't for sure it could be straight forward, but I doubt it. Honestly though I do feel bad for Hyun, but I place blame on anyone who trusts someone with their money. I'd let a lot of people use my POS car, but I wouldn't let them manage my bank account. NEVER let anyone touch your money because every person can be tempted. All of you saying this don't know that for sure. This "case" could be as easy as HyuN paying $300 in court fees, showing up to his court date with his lawyer, and showing his contract + bank records to the judge. Simon would then be summonsed, and if Simon didn't show an automatic judgment could be declared in favor of HyuN. If Simon refused to pay, seizure of assets could be ordered. For an amount this large, an arrest warrant might even be put out for Simon. Also, any lawyer who took this case would probably take at least 10% of the plaintiff's winnings anyway. Some lawyers will take cases such as this and promise, say, 10 hours of free work to a client. After that, they would begin to charge. This lets lawyers try to end cases such as this quickly for lower income clients (lawyer takes 10% of the winnings still), however if it gets too time consuming they arent in neck-deep. Don't underestimate the power of the legal system.
I'm not sure about the US/Canada but here in Australia you almost never get legal fees as cheap as $2,500 (10% in this case). At the end of the day, Hyun might end up spending $5,000+ on legal fees, the pig going bankrupt and not giving a cent back which is worse. Gotta remember Hyun is a Korean and probably doesn't know any lawyers or how things might work. Also I forsee a jurisdiction issue since DH money means it's happened in Sweden whilst the pig is probably hiding back in Canada.
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On January 02 2014 16:14 Agh wrote:
Not defending Quantic by any means, but Hyun is at fault for letting this go on past the first occurrence and not bringing it to light.
Hopefully any current players reading this will take note. Good faith doesn't exist in this 'business'.
Probably over half of esports teams have some late payments or financial issues. If everyone left their teams after 2 months delayed salary then quite a few teams would not exist. Is it good? Obviously not, but such is the life of a pro that can't join one of the few truly trusted organizations.
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Fuck yuuu pay me!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 02 2014 18:13 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 16:14 Agh wrote:
Not defending Quantic by any means, but Hyun is at fault for letting this go on past the first occurrence and not bringing it to light.
Hopefully any current players reading this will take note. Good faith doesn't exist in this 'business'. Probably over half of esports teams have some late payments or financial issues. If everyone left their teams after 2 months delayed salary then quite a few teams would not exist. Is it good? Obviously not, but such is the life of a pro that can't join one of the few truly trusted organizations.
Not really. That's the CEO job, to make a business plan; get x from sponsors, spend y on salaries, remains z for these events, perhaps play on certain events to raise more money etc etc etc. I'm not saying this is easy, but is doable.
About the money: for me, if 1 (one) month is not payed, I'm stopping work and start bitching (at the beginning), then leave immediately and don't stop until I get my last penny back. There is no excuse for not paying a contract.
Exceptional things can happen - and they are listed in any contract, I suppose - second coming, flood and earthquakes, Archimonde invasions etc. Even in the case of so-called lung lump thing, CEO must designate a delegate which take cares of business while on leave. Girlfriend, dog, dog vet, mom, CTO, best friend, whatever. What happens if - god forbid - a CEO dies suddenly? Whole LLC stops working? Not so.
I think what happens here is simple: a bunch of kids or former kids, without much human experience (hey, they are playing SC all day), relying on trust to be payed and taking care of. And they are screwed from time to time. Why? I don't care; disappearing is not an acceptable thing.
I bet someone will appear finally, dissolve Quantic, and compensate Hyun and anyone else affected here.
Meanwhile, Hyun should do at least two things: a) accept the offer from the litigation lawyer so nice to take a look on the problem for free; b) start shopping for a new team; c) perhaps designate an agent to assist him on future endeavors.
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No player should trust any organization who can't prove they've paid salaries and prizes on time in the past. The clowns who run these teams obviously talk the good talk, but it seems to stop there -_- real shame.
Here's an idea - start a kickstarter for suing this guy. I'd contribute.
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Wow this sucks, poor Hyun, he better not quit he is suck a great player!
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On January 02 2014 18:13 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 16:14 Agh wrote:
Not defending Quantic by any means, but Hyun is at fault for letting this go on past the first occurrence and not bringing it to light.
Hopefully any current players reading this will take note. Good faith doesn't exist in this 'business'. Probably over half of esports teams have some late payments or financial issues. If everyone left their teams after 2 months delayed salary then quite a few teams would not exist. Is it good? Obviously not, but such is the life of a pro that can't join one of the few truly trusted organizations.
Exactly, those teams should not exist.
The few organizations that are reputable and have a stable model and foundation should remain, the rest should not. The longer they remain around the more harm they do to the scene and existing teams.
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That's good that a lawyer has contacted HyuN. Let us know if there is any update after that.
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Real shame. Hope Hyun lands on his feet.
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Just another reason why prize money should go into the players bank account rather than the fat cat team owner.
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On January 02 2014 09:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Kind of unfortunate you can't report liquipedia staff. Zodasoda has completely started derailing this thread. I do find it really sad that a liquipedia staff member actually starts trying to shit on someone like TotalBiscuit, especially in such a condescending tone, with really stupid facts that are not even right.
Sigh, I really think teamliquid should enforce some respect to figures like TotalBiscuit, he does more for SC2 than just about any other member in the scene... I can't really think of anyone who contributes more from the top of my head. And this attitude towards him will be tolerated by someone who nobody knows (No disrespect to Liquidpedia staff, I think they do a good job). Tb, respect to you for still posting here and offering your insight. I think it's great, you bring new perspectives from an owner in esports I don't always recognize. Thank you.
Hell, read TB's posts again. Both of them didn't do too well. Now just get back on topic.
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On January 02 2014 21:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 09:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Kind of unfortunate you can't report liquipedia staff. Zodasoda has completely started derailing this thread. I do find it really sad that a liquipedia staff member actually starts trying to shit on someone like TotalBiscuit, especially in such a condescending tone, with really stupid facts that are not even right.
Sigh, I really think teamliquid should enforce some respect to figures like TotalBiscuit, he does more for SC2 than just about any other member in the scene... I can't really think of anyone who contributes more from the top of my head. And this attitude towards him will be tolerated by someone who nobody knows (No disrespect to Liquidpedia staff, I think they do a good job). Tb, respect to you for still posting here and offering your insight. I think it's great, you bring new perspectives from an owner in esports I don't always recognize. Thank you. Hell, read TB's posts again. Both of them didn't do too well. Now just get back on topic.
its true, a bunch of senseless bantering which is completely off topic, and they both should have been warned after the first couple posts, but TL has a policy that if you can act like a 12 year old kid as long as you have been doing it atleast that many years.
veteran members should be expected to hold themselves to a standard that they would want new members to hold themselves to. if someone with 2 posts says some crap, its like, okay he's a troll or doesnt understand what good conduct is, temp ban him, if he does it again perma. when a veteran member does it, i don't even know what to think. When it is condoned or even encouraged, i REALLY start to wonder.
Now everyone stop reading this and go watch "support hyun tournament"!
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On January 02 2014 08:00 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 03:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 01 2014 17:57 ZodaSoda wrote:On January 01 2014 16:28 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 01 2014 12:21 Undead1993 wrote:
ye you could feel in the last couple of tournaments that he was stressed out, poor guy. kind of sad how some foreign teams treat the clueless koreans, axiom obviously doesn't but. Axiom is not a foreign team Foreign owned, Foreign ran, Foreign paid... This is the reason I come to Teamliquid, to have random forum posters inform me of what my team is and isn't. Right, random forum poster who has been following and organizing the way teams are recognized in Starcraft longer than you've been interested in the game... Take your attitude somewhere else on this one Biscuitboy Why is it so important to you people call Axiom a "Korean" team anyway? its not going to happen if you keep calling it your team and you keep telling us that you pay them and that you organize their flights, and without GSTL now, Axiom not in Proleague, you're as far as you can get from being a proper "Korean" team in the meaning of the phrase coming from the BW days... at best you're a International team who happens to only sign Koreans, if TL dropped all their players except for Taeja and HerO would that make Liquid a Korean team? no... But of course i get ahead of my self here, I'm talking to you of all people and whats in your mind is right! can't argue with that...
I don't want to deraile the thread so I'm gonna stick to one only one post on this subject.
If we go by your definition there is barely any english teams in the english PL. I think you might be the only one who consider Arsenal and Manchester United to be american teams.
It's quite obvious that the Axiom players identify themself as a korean team, and they are all korean, based in Korea, only last year playing in a korean league. So for you to dictate to them who they are based on some outdated notion of elitisme is incredibly disrespectful. Why does it make more sense to you to classify a team based on who owns it insted of who plays in it?
Not to mention your terrible attitude. You should manage to a argument without insulting and draging the discussion down to a kindergarden level.
Totalbiscuit organizes tournaments, sponsors the scene, casts, owns a team and is generally someone who deserves a lot of respects for his amazing contribution to the community. What do you do? So please, even if you don't like him, which you obviously don't, at least respects his contribution.
As a last note I really hope you stop letting this kind of thing get to you Totalbiscuit. nothing good comes from picking this fights and they are just a waste of time.
Sorry for derailing and my bad english.
Watching Hyun right now!
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
^ it was tb who started slinging around the insults, I think many people who see how tb acts on forums will agree that it's something he does a lot. zodasoda is an important liquipedia staff member whose work is also very important, if a more behind-the-scenes than what tb does.
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On January 03 2014 00:34 opterown wrote:
^ it was tb who started slinging around the insults, I think many people who see how tb acts on forums will agree that it's something he does a lot. zodasoda is an important liquipedia staff member whose work is also very important, if a more behind-the-scenes than what tb does.
The back and fouth was dumb, but defining an team made entirely of Korean natives as a "foreigner team" is pretty dumb.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
Poll: Do you consider Axiom a Korean team?Yes (166) 43% No (181) 46% Sort of (43) 11% 390 total votes Your vote: Do you consider Axiom a Korean team? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Sort of
eh, I don't think it's an unreasonable opinion to consider it a foreign team, and evidently many agree
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nobody in quantic knows this dudes address?
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I struggle to believe those voting for not Korean actually paid the team much attention since its inception. Focusing on TB instead of the roster of koreans seems to be the only reasonable explanation for such an opinion.
I wonder if say i was to buy a dying Korean SC2 team and rename it in my glory. I'll call it TEAM GOIBON EXPLOSION. Would people then reclassify it as a foreign team? Cause that's basically what they've done with Axiom. I don't get it.
over 9k views on Hyun's stream. The support is heartwarming <3
Also how did i not see this until now, god what a funny dude + Show Spoiler +
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Afreeca is always an option ^_^.
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EPT
