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On December 15 2013 20:11 Socke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 19:21 ZenithM wrote:On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:
[quote]
I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell.  It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance. Finally something our fellow Protoss can't ignore. Thank you for your contribution to this thread, desrow. Btw: + Show Spoiler + (819) desRow 0-0 Bomber (1844)
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0.01% 5-0 0-5 46.67%
0.02% 5-1 1-5 32.99%
0.06% 5-2 2-5 13.99%
0.13% 5-3 3-5 4.61%
0.21% 5-4 4-5 1.30%
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0.43% 99.57%
Median outcome: desRow 1-5 Bomber I think this just shows how match ladderresults and ladderranks really mean D:
Beg to correct you: I think this just shows how match ladderresults and ladderranks really mean to bomber D:
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Toss is by far the most boring race to play... Welcome back.
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On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%.
On the other hand Desrow plays on EU from USA whereas Bomber plays on EU from Korea, it makes a big difference in my opinion.
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On December 15 2013 20:21 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%. On the other hand Desrow plays on EU from USA whereas Bomber plays on EU from Korea, it makes a big difference in my opinion.
It's NA => NA and KR => NA, not much lag from Bomber.
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On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%.
I used his TLPD stats for HotS. The guy plays coin flippy t vs p. His master plan, whether behind or ahead is to pull all of his scvs and cross his fingers, when better terrans would simply capitalize on their advantages without having to resort to such silliness. When it comes to t vs p, I just can't think of many worse examples than someone that plays like Bomber does. Anyone that has templars has a chance against that guy.
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On December 15 2013 20:24 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%. I used his TLPD stats for HotS. The guy plays coin flippy t vs p. His master plan, whether behind or ahead is to pull all of his scvs and cross his fingers, when better terrans would simply capitalize on their advantages without having to resort to such silliness. When it comes to t vs p, I just can't think of many worse examples than someone that plays like Bomber does. Anyone that has templars has a chance against that guy.
Sad part is that he was probably best TvPer in WoL with Taeja and Polt.
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On December 15 2013 20:23 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:21 Lazzi wrote:On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%. On the other hand Desrow plays on EU from USA whereas Bomber plays on EU from Korea, it makes a big difference in my opinion. It's NA => NA and KR => NA, not much lag from Bomber.
I am quite sure Desrow has been playing on EU for a while now, and I've seen some Bomber's streams where he plays on EU too.
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On December 15 2013 20:43 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:23 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:21 Lazzi wrote:On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%. On the other hand Desrow plays on EU from USA whereas Bomber plays on EU from Korea, it makes a big difference in my opinion. It's NA => NA and KR => NA, not much lag from Bomber. I am quite sure Desrow has been playing on EU for a while now, and I've seen some Bomber's streams where he plays on EU too.
all played on NA
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I think desRow would have no chance of winning (no offense) in a tournament setting vs Bomber, but this really shows how weird ladder can be.
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On December 15 2013 20:56 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 20:43 Lazzi wrote:On December 15 2013 20:23 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:21 Lazzi wrote:On December 15 2013 20:10 Faust852 wrote:On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances. C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4. btw : All 61.42% (484/788) 1839 ± 105 (#17) TvP 63.77% (169/265) 1844 ± 153 (#11) TvT 61.28% (144/235) 1869 ± 191 (#20) TvZ 59.38% (171/288) 1804 ± 149 (#17) These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%. On the other hand Desrow plays on EU from USA whereas Bomber plays on EU from Korea, it makes a big difference in my opinion. It's NA => NA and KR => NA, not much lag from Bomber. I am quite sure Desrow has been playing on EU for a while now, and I've seen some Bomber's streams where he plays on EU too. all played on NA
My bad then.
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On December 15 2013 21:07 Chaggi wrote:
I think desRow would have no chance of winning (no offense) in a tournament setting vs Bomber, but this really shows how weird ladder can be.
no it shows how retarded protoss is. desrow is just some random on ladder, not even top 16 GM. its like if a random foreigner beat fantasy in BW, such a thing would never happen, and it shouldnt.
edit: i just saw bomber lose to proxy skillray on his stream against some random on NA ladder...he scouted it and didnt make any mistakes and still lost...pure jokes.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Oh please, do not compare this to a bo9. You think bomber cares how his standing on ladder vs desrow is? Ladder is a training ground. Something like that would be really unlikely to happen in a tournament setting.
I also think many people underestimate desrow, if I'm not mistaken he's currently not on a team, so he probably can't afford to go to tourney's, this means ladder is his best chance to show his skill and get picked up by a team. Having a record of 5-4 vs bomber on ladder thus means a lot to him.
So the 'best of 9' is one where bomber has nothing to lose and desrow has much to gain. It is not that significant if you put it like this.
That being said, oracle dps needs a fat nerf. People aren't using the oracle as a supporting unit because its dps vs workers is ridiculous.
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On December 15 2013 21:15 j00pdaw00p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 21:07 Chaggi wrote:
I think desRow would have no chance of winning (no offense) in a tournament setting vs Bomber, but this really shows how weird ladder can be. no it shows how retarded protoss is. desrow is just some random on ladder, not even top 16 GM. its like if a random foreigner beat fantasy in BW, such a thing would never happen, and it shouldnt. edit: i just saw bomber lose to proxy skillray on his stream against some random on NA ladder...he scouted it and didnt make any mistakes and still lost...pure jokes.
We have no idea how seriously Bomber is really playing on ladder. Desrow most likely is playing with every trick that he has cause how often does he have a chance to play a Terran of the caliber of Bomber? SC2 is also far less mechanically driven and faster than BW, which means small mistakes can snowball and you can rarely get an advantage back. I love Bomber as much as the next and personally believe that if the game was "better", desrow should have no chance against Bomber. But trying to compare this is pretty stupid and just flat out biased.
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On December 15 2013 21:15 j00pdaw00p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 21:07 Chaggi wrote:
I think desRow would have no chance of winning (no offense) in a tournament setting vs Bomber, but this really shows how weird ladder can be. no it shows how retarded protoss is. desrow is just some random on ladder, not even top 16 GM. its like if a random foreigner beat fantasy in BW, such a thing would never happen, and it shouldnt. edit: i just saw bomber lose to proxy skillray on his stream against some random on NA ladder...he scouted it and didnt make any mistakes and still lost...pure jokes.
Yep, saw this game. Maybe Bomber shouldn't have made marauders but it's still pretty ridiculous haha. Btw this Hitman guy is a fucking douche, kinda sad to see such BM from the top players of NA.
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On December 15 2013 21:36 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 21:15 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 15 2013 21:07 Chaggi wrote:
I think desRow would have no chance of winning (no offense) in a tournament setting vs Bomber, but this really shows how weird ladder can be. no it shows how retarded protoss is. desrow is just some random on ladder, not even top 16 GM. its like if a random foreigner beat fantasy in BW, such a thing would never happen, and it shouldnt. edit: i just saw bomber lose to proxy skillray on his stream against some random on NA ladder...he scouted it and didnt make any mistakes and still lost...pure jokes. Yep, saw this game. Maybe Bomber shouldn't have made marauders but it's still pretty ridiculous haha. Btw this Hitman guy is a fucking douche, kinda sad to see such BM from the top players of NA.
Yes, that was really sad to see, especially to Bomber who is such a cool guy.
Anyway, welcome back SjoW. At the very least, you got yourself a good amount of viewers for your stream 
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Not only they cheese and all in so much but they are also so BM.. Bomber reported two protoss players today on his stream. It really leaves a bitter taste when GM players play and act like that.
And I am sure that Bomber would have absolutely no problem eliminating any of those guys in actual tournament environment but it is still frustrating to see how gimmicks can prevail over solid play on ladder.
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Mid-tier Korean Zergs will not drop games to foreign Terran pros. We're not talking about Terran GM ladder scrubs -- that those guys get annihilated goes without saying. And this is how it should be.
Bomber's record vs. P on ladder, when not fighting Dear or Rain, should be 99%. Like no matter what. He should just destroy. Maybe if he goes 4 CC before Rax the odds can be 50-50.
I don't understand how this is even debateable. Players need to be rewarded more for having godly macro and godly micro. Build order wins are fun if they happen one game out of a BO5. Not every single fucking game, because that's all P really has to fall back on.
Rain and First are like the only two Protoss I consistently enjoy watching (when they're not PvPing that is). God I hate BO wins/losses so much. Can you tell? Can you tell I hate them a lot? Because I do.
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It doesn't sound like you enjoy build order wins so much, pure.Wasted. But maybe I could be completely off the mark on that one.
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On December 15 2013 22:40 pure.Wasted wrote:
Mid-tier Korean Zergs will not drop games to foreign Terran pros. We're not talking about Terran GM ladder scrubs -- that those guys get annihilated goes without saying. And this is how it should be.
Bomber's record vs. P on ladder, when not fighting Dear or Rain, should be 99%. Like no matter what. He should just destroy. Maybe if he goes 4 CC before Rax the odds can be 50-50.
I don't understand how this is even debateable. Players need to be rewarded more for having godly macro and godly micro. Build order wins are fun if they happen one game out of a BO5. Not every single fucking game, because that's all P really has to fall back on.
Rain and First are like the only two Protoss I consistently enjoy watching (when they're not PvPing that is). God I hate BO wins/losses so much. Can you tell? Can you tell I hate them a lot? Because I do.
That's more of a problem with the game/ladder than with balance IMO. You can't say that cause Bomber on ladder is fucking world destroying WCS Season 2 winner Bomber, cause he really is not.
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Also I've been tabbing in and out of Bomber's stream, has he faced any non-Protoss yet? I've been watching for the last 2-3 hours and I haven't seen 1 non-Toss.
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EPT
