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On December 15 2013 00:51 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 00:44 SolidSMD wrote:On December 15 2013 00:02 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 23:44 SolidSMD wrote:On December 14 2013 23:32 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 23:29 SolidSMD wrote:On December 14 2013 22:51 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 22:48 Cheerio wrote:On December 14 2013 22:46 Faust852 wrote:On December 14 2013 22:31 Cheerio wrote:
[quote]
I believe there is an explanation. When SC2 kicked in terran was imba. Many people picked it because of it, some of them understood it was because of the race strength, but some people reasoned they just liked it more, yeah it's easier to "like" a race when you are winning a lot. Later terran got the most nerfs. Consider a situation. You are about to buy a laptop. You do your research of the market well, read the reports and feedbacks, test some models yourself, and make a perfect choice. You feel you've been rewarded for you efforts and for being smart. You make your purchase and have some good time admiring it. But then the company comes in and says "ok, there has been a mistake. Your laptop was underpriced and you need to either pay extra or have it exchanged for a worse model". I would be pissed as hell. And those terrans, who picked the race because they felt it was the strongest at the moment, surely have been after every nerf. Lol, terran was shit for the 8 last month in WoL, we just don't want that again in HotS. who's talking about WoL last 8 months? So your analogy was really really bad because I saw it like it, saying terran picked terran because it was easy and OP then terran got nerfed and (for you, balanced) and now they are pissed because of it. That's totally a biased pov. Out of all people in this thread, I actually think you're the most biased person. The pot calling the kettle black. Non-sense, I'm just realistic. I'm not the one saying "olol ppl chose t cuz it waz ez & now itz harder lolz" and then playing the game of "I'll throw whatever you say back at you because I don't have a single argument and I make shitty anology". Oh please, 'camera hotkeys worthless', 'terran UP', ... I'm not even the person you think you're responding to. You pay that much attention to what you read. C'mon, I don't see how saying that camera hotkey doesn't matter much to reach GM is a biased opinion. Plus I dare you to find a single post where I said terran UP without a legit argumentation. Legit argumentation? In the mind of the biased, the argumentation is always legit. This is not gonna work out I'm afraid. Aaand you're still not able to quote me. Nice try.
Keep missing the point son, one day you'll get there.
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You're such an annoying sophist, you can't prove your point but by some random sentences without logic. Anyway, since you can't answer me properly, I concider you in fault and just trolling. I'll stop arguing with you.
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On December 14 2013 17:27 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 17:12 OGzan wrote:On December 14 2013 06:22 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 06:20 Hider wrote:Quoting Dear
There’s a lot of variability in the mirror matchup, and after the most recent patch I don’t feel like I understand the match-up at all.
One could interpret variability as coinflipness. Or the patch changed the match up so much he needs to relearn it. You just like to continuously argue to try and save face, atleast that's the image I'm getting from you. When people balance whine sometimes there's credence to it. You didn't have to relearn the whole match up to have see that hellbats were imbalanced. Oracles are too easy to control and offer way too much reward for such little risk. They made it easier to control with increased speed and acceleration, hence why it's currently imbalanced. dont...argue...with...plansix.
Yes, the always correct god of TL, speaking against him is futile.
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It was an interesting experiment and and your failtoss stream was really fun to watch! HF with terran again hehe...
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On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell.  It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs.
I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
I think his point was that there are so many things protoss can do to kill you instantly, while being quite safe themselves - therefore allowing inferior players (and i would rate you inferior to Bomber - no offense) to have an edge over players that they would never be able to defeat if it weren't for this particular matchup.
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On December 13 2013 23:50 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 23:48 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:38 Whatson wrote:On December 13 2013 23:28 Plansix wrote:
Also, last time I checked he still doesn't use map hot keys. I don't know how he expects to do well against any high level player that uses them. He obviously doesn't need them as Protoss Oh clearly the highest level Protoss don't need map hot keys or control groups. Just draw a big box and Amove to glory. Then tab and storm, storm, storm! Ez pz. Lol, camera control are useless, I don't know a single player that use them beside putting Main 2nd and 3rd. They spam it for 5 min then never use them after that.
what the fuck am I reading
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Neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeej!!
The only stream i've been watching the last two weeks!! :[[[
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fuck yeah a brethen returned
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On December 14 2013 00:05 mechengineer123 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 21:16 ETisME wrote:
lol switched because P too imba in PvT, switched back because PvP is too frustrating That's not strange at all, expected this because me and a friend of mine went through the exact same thing. We're top masters and switched to Protoss for a while because being Terran is just too depressing. Both our PvT winrates were ridiculously high, beating players much stronger than our own Terran. PvZ was harder than I thought, but it can be interesting so that's fine. However, playing the retardfest that is PvP all day can just break a person. The numbers were around 90 PvP's out of 190 games and although my winrate was even positive, that matchup just kills your entire joy in life.
Oddly enough, from my limited PvP experience I enjoy it because it's such a micro battle. I may be behind the times and still use 4 gate because well I can't say I know many PvP builds (Terran player), but I don't mind it. I think my PvT would benefit a lot in the same way my TvP would if I was good with casters (ghosts, sentries, templar). PvZ I don't have much experience with, but I'd imagine it being interesting. But I can totally see this being the case. I think zerg's the easiest to race switch to. One hotkey, all your hatches. Just cycle through queens, and get used to it. There's timings, but you don't really have many buildings. Just keep on top of injects and you'll go pretty far. There's a lot more to zerg, but the mechanics are the easiest I think.
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On December 14 2013 03:28 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 03:26 Sabu113 wrote:
Man I feel like sjow missed out on a fantastic opportunity. I would watch someting ala mr bitter's show with 3-5 episodes of Naniwa coaching/cursing sjow! + Show Spoiler +In the final episode Naniwa and Sjow go on a murderous rampage as they try to kill every Zerg in Europe and accidently burn down an Ikea. Morrow gets blamed and goes to jail.
Bwhaha. Sold. Didn't know Sjow hated Zergs like Nani did.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
I think the fact that you can 5-4 Bomber is a problem in itself. I don't want to bash you or anything but come on, you don't even are a top16 GM in NA and Bomber is easily top5 terran world. I watched Bomber streaming against you and most of the time what you call "macro wins" were shitty 2/3 bases timings with a ridiculous opening like blink or DT. grabbing in 1 win, why not, but wining a Bo9 against him is ridiculous.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
This. Definite proof of imbalance. End of discussion.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
Yes, it perfectly shows, how broken your race is.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
I don't think this statement is going to help your argument like you probably thought it would.
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As someone who has been Master league with all 3 races before, the grass always seems greener on the other side no matter what race you are playing. I think no matter what race you decide to play you will end up at about the skill you are currently with your main race over time.
That being said, there are certain situations, on certain maps, that are imbalanced in certain matchups. But overall, each race has their imbalances / advantages / situations to capitalize on. You don't realize that until you dive in and start playing another race.
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On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance.
Finally something our fellow Protoss can't ignore. Thank you for your contribution to this thread, desrow.
Btw:
+ Show Spoiler + (819) desRow 0-0 Bomber (1844)
-----------------------------------------
0.01% 5-0 0-5 46.67%
0.02% 5-1 1-5 32.99%
0.06% 5-2 2-5 13.99%
0.13% 5-3 3-5 4.61%
0.21% 5-4 4-5 1.30%
-----------------------------------------
0.43% 99.57%
Median outcome: desRow 1-5 Bomber
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Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances.
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On December 15 2013 20:02 playa wrote:
Terran players are cute. Bomber has the same TLPD stats against zerg as he does toss. He's a 50% player outside of t v s t. All you have to do is look at the top two terrans, innovation and taeja, who are at 77% and 73% against toss, to realize it's possible to own toss and that Bomber can play the mu A LOT better than he currently is.
Is there no irony/humility in whining about playing against protoss and then switching to protoss and still crying about how hard it is to play against protoss? If p vs p is a coin flip. I'm using a very one sided coin... If you struggle in a mirror mu, your problem obviously has nothing to do with imbalances.
C'mon, it's Bomber vs Desrow, not Bomber vs Dear or Parting lmao. you can't be that blind to say that it is normal for Desrow to beat Bomber 5-4.
btw :
All
61.42% (484/788)
1839 ± 105 (#17)
TvP
63.77% (169/265)
1844 ± 153 (#11)
TvT
61.28% (144/235)
1869 ± 191 (#20)
TvZ
59.38% (171/288)
1804 ± 149 (#17)
These are Bomber stats, it's not 50%.
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On December 15 2013 19:21 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 07:43 desRow wrote:On December 14 2013 20:41 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 14 2013 20:35 Valikyr wrote:On December 14 2013 19:17 j00pdaw00p wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. Funny because avilo is already top 50 master with toss You do know that "top 50 master" is nothing for a higher GM player right? I'm just a masters player but had no problem at all getting back to "top 50 masters" when I tried off-racing for a while. My point is that Plansix is wrong - just because sjow couldn't do it doesn't mean others can't. He's using a 70-apm player as a measuring stick, which is laughable. Edit: Just 2 minutes after typing this, I watched Bomber lose to a DT rush executed by desrow on Bomber's stream. That made me giggle. You know something's wrong with the game when something like that is possible. You would never see a top-tier Korean lose to a non-pro (esp. a foreigner) with BW. Pure laffs. I'm 5-4 vs Bomber on ladder including Macro wins. Don't be delusional about balance. Finally something our fellow Protoss can't ignore. Thank you for your contribution to this thread, desrow. Btw: + Show Spoiler + (819) desRow 0-0 Bomber (1844)
-----------------------------------------
0.01% 5-0 0-5 46.67%
0.02% 5-1 1-5 32.99%
0.06% 5-2 2-5 13.99%
0.13% 5-3 3-5 4.61%
0.21% 5-4 4-5 1.30%
-----------------------------------------
0.43% 99.57%
Median outcome: desRow 1-5 Bomber
I think this just shows how match ladderresults and ladderranks really mean D:
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EPT
