EPT[Interview] sOs, WCS 2013 Finals Champion - ThisIsGame - P…
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
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theMagus
578 Posts
 i'll always remember shy as the first kespa player to defeat an esf player in an official streamed match right after the kespa sc2 transition. it was against then code s protoss player st_ace. he's been mindfucking other players since day 1  | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
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DaftFunk
194 Posts
stupid cannon rush question. "if you werent nervous, why did u c-rush?" "well c-rushing shows that i wasnt nervous at all.." DURRR please ask better questions next time!! | ||
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Starp
Canada199 Posts
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Enel
Sudan430 Posts
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Prevolved
United States573 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On November 16 2013 01:44 mechengineer123 wrote: I agree that there's nothing wrong with "cheese" per se, but "some" strategies are very easy to execute and grant huge rewards, and it's kind of disrespectful to abuse them in such games. Sos seems like a really cool guy judging by his behavior on stage and interviews, but I just hate his gamestyle so much. How dare he to use strategy in a strategy game! Burn the heretic! Do you people even read the stuff you type? | ||
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Xyl
United States25 Posts
He let Jaedong win the Whirlwind game. 4-0-ing Jaedong amidst a very passionate crowd of Jaedong fans would have gotten him more negative press from the community than positive. 4-0-ing Jaedong to give JD his 3rd finals sweep in a row would have hurt JD considerably. There was little for sOs to gain, but much for JD to loose. sOs completely dictated the pace of every game against JD, completely countering JD's tactic of dictating the pace of every match he played at the Global Finals. Watching the decisions, tactics, and strategies that sOs used was utterly delightful. A real pleasure. | ||
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fx9
117 Posts
Btw, blame Jaedong for sticking to only one strategy against protoss. He always goes fast 3 hatches into mass Muta/lings to force base trade with protoss. Dear had a hard time dealing with this, but sOs adapted and never play into JD's hand. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On November 16 2013 19:09 Xyl wrote: If you paid close attention to all of sOs's games at the Global Finals and then watched his game vs Jaedong on Whirlwind, you should reach this conclusion: He let Jaedong win the Whirlwind game. 4-0-ing Jaedong amidst a very passionate crowd of Jaedong fans would have gotten him more negative press from the community than positive. 4-0-ing Jaedong to give JD his 3rd finals sweep in a row would have hurt JD considerably. There was little for sOs to gain, but much for JD to loose. sOs completely dictated the pace of every game against JD, completely countering JD's tactic of dictating the pace of every match he played at the Global Finals. Watching the decisions, tactics, and strategies that sOs used was utterly delightful. A real pleasure. If you watched even closer JD is the one who lost the finals rather than sOs winning it.. In G1 JD didn't attack with Ultras but instead was "faking" those to Mutas, but he already made like 15 of them.. w.t.f. In G2 the map-designer should get not just fired, but fined as well.. Any real person would respond to what he sees - and the map looks like even a Stalker could pass on through the left side there, yet alone a Drone would.. But it wasn't the case.. The map didn't correspond to it's own looks In G4 JD got "too fancy" and instead scouting for buildings on the Pylon he already saw, he was like, nah-ah, this is too easy to not be fake, you wouldn't put any important buildings on the edge of your base, show me all you got and went for the "deep scout" in main to find gates, but they weren't there.. G5 was sOs winning though, it was too much mindgames for JD all series long to bare, he got completely "shaken" and not respond well.. Still - Game 1 is JD who lost, and G2 was a laugh-off, it was neither of the player's fault, but rather the map-designer's.. And THAT's what dictated the pace of the series - that "stupid' 2:0 to start with.. Grats for sOs for playing awesome games though.. It was JD's side that was "shaking" to not make the series longer or games better overall.. However - point was - sOs didn't "LET" JD win his one won game.. Far from that.. Unless you were being sarcastic and trolling on the forum and got me as a victim though.. That's always possible, and can be the case as well..  | ||
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ThePrince
Peru331 Posts
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Ljas
Finland725 Posts
On November 16 2013 04:40 awesomoecalypse wrote: The fact of the matter is, Starcraft is a real time strategy game, not a real time APM demonstration. A player who devises a clever way to trick his opponent deserves to win every bit as much as someone who simply wins through superior mechanics. The foreign community is so full of whiners and scrubs who think progamers should follow their imaginary honour codes that paragraphs like these are worthy of a TL+ donation. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 16 2013 04:40 awesomoecalypse wrote: There is much more to the game then mechanics. Focusing exclusively on the difficulty of mechanical execution ignores an entire mindgame/strategy aspect of the game, and that's where sOs is exceptional. He simply outthought Jaedong (and most of his other opponents). That sort of skill isn't as easy to demonstrate to a spectator as sick micro or something, but it absolutely is a skill that some players are better at than others. Hell, look at BoxeR for example. Did he win because his mechanics were just so much better than YellOw? Not really. In fact, most YellOw fans would argue (pretty convincingly I might add) that he had superior mechanics to Boxer, especially when it came to macro. But Boxer was brilliant at tricking and mindgaming his opponents, figuring out what they would expect and then doing exactly what he had to in order to fool and punish them. The fact of the matter is, Starcraft is a real time strategy game, not a real time APM demonstration. A player who devises a clever way to trick his opponent deserves to win every bit as much as someone who simply wins through superior mechanics. Yep, we call those the intangibles or what some of you know as Star Sense. You either get it or you don't. | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
point being, the guy just said he doesn't personally like that playstyle. i dunno if i agree that it's "disrespectful", but it's fine to not like cheese. whenever anyone says they don't like cheese, there are 50 posters waiting to jump down their throat about how they're the reason the sc2 community sucks, they don't have the proper mindset to win, that "all's fair in war," etc. etc. is this really necessary? i get this response if someone posts something like "fucking cheeser bullshit broken game toss noob," but do we have to rip someone a new asshole just for saying "yeah, i think cheese is pretty lame"? cheese can be executed at a high level, but there's something to the idea that it's easier to pull off than it is to defend. and it's certainly legitimate to have an opinion on what types of playstyle are fun, interesting, respectable, etc. or are we doing the same response to people who post that swarm host turtle games are boring? e: for the record i like sos and i don't think cheese is "broken" nor am i angry about it, though i don't personally like it | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 17 2013 12:27 Waise wrote: lol, cannon rushing means you have "intangibles" now? i guess all the cannon rushing toss i meet in gold league who have no idea what they're doing after the 5 minute mark have sick star sense intangibles just like sos point being, the guy just said he doesn't personally like that playstyle. i dunno if i agree that it's "disrespectful", but it's fine to not like cheese. whenever anyone says they don't like cheese, there are 50 posters waiting to jump down their throat about how they're the reason the sc2 community sucks, they don't have the proper mindset to win, that "all's fair in war," etc. etc. is this really necessary? i get this response if someone posts something like "fucking cheeser bullshit broken game toss noob," but do we have to rip someone a new asshole just for saying "yeah, i think cheese is pretty lame"? cheese can be executed at a high level, but there's something to the idea that it's easier to pull off than it is to defend. and it's certainly legitimate to have an opinion on what types of playstyle are fun, interesting, respectable, etc. or are we doing the same response to people who post that swarm host turtle games are boring? e: for the record i like sos and i don't think cheese is "broken" nor am i angry about it, though i don't personally like it I didn't say that. We're talking about his game sense and ability to read how the game plays out. I think you should re-read the thread. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
sOs played super original,,,,not quite as original as Tasteless would have you believe but,,,,original and true to hist own style that is for sure.... . | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
Also, to be honest I believe we need cheese to make games interesting. The best time personally for me as a spectator was GSL seasons 1-3 when cheese was rampant. Matches were way more volatile and exciting. | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
On November 17 2013 12:27 Waise wrote: lol, cannon rushing means you have "intangibles" now? i guess all the cannon rushing toss i meet in gold league who have no idea what they're doing after the 5 minute mark have sick star sense intangibles just like sos point being, the guy just said he doesn't personally like that playstyle. i dunno if i agree that it's "disrespectful", but it's fine to not like cheese. whenever anyone says they don't like cheese, there are 50 posters waiting to jump down their throat about how they're the reason the sc2 community sucks, they don't have the proper mindset to win, that "all's fair in war," etc. etc. is this really necessary? i get this response if someone posts something like "fucking cheeser bullshit broken game toss noob," but do we have to rip someone a new asshole just for saying "yeah, i think cheese is pretty lame"? cheese can be executed at a high level, but there's something to the idea that it's easier to pull off than it is to defend. and it's certainly legitimate to have an opinion on what types of playstyle are fun, interesting, respectable, etc. or are we doing the same response to people who post that swarm host turtle games are boring? e: for the record i like sos and i don't think cheese is "broken" nor am i angry about it, though i don't personally like it You must not have watched the game because not once did the cannon rush itself win the game, it's what he did after and the reaction to Jaedong's response that won the games in the end. The cannon rush in those games can be equated to warping in zealots to force a cancel on the hatch, because that is exactly what happened in one game, and the other game it didn't even really matter because it went to late game anyways. But the follow up pressure with zealots, and then the brilliant follow up with phoenix to check-mate Jaedong was absolutely fantastic execution by sOs. Not to mention it wouldn't have mattered if Jaedong didn't open with extremely greedy builds to start the series, everyone just expects sOs to sit back and let Jaedong take 3 bases before pool and then play from behind every game? That would be suicide, especially against a player of Jaedong's skill. And he showed that he can win without doing any of that in the other games, so in no way can sOs's win be equated to "cheesing" or "Jaedong just lost, sOs didn't win". That's just ignorant and delusional thought | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
On November 16 2013 21:28 VArsovskiSC wrote: + Show Spoiler + If you watched even closer JD is the one who lost the finals rather than sOs winning it.. In G1 JD didn't attack with Ultras but instead was "faking" those to Mutas, but he already made like 15 of them.. w.t.f. In G2 the map-designer should get not just fired, but fined as well.. Any real person would respond to what he sees - and the map looks like even a Stalker could pass on through the left side there, yet alone a Drone would.. But it wasn't the case.. The map didn't correspond to it's own looks In G4 JD got "too fancy" and instead scouting for buildings on the Pylon he already saw, he was like, nah-ah, this is too easy to not be fake, you wouldn't put any important buildings on the edge of your base, show me all you got and went for the "deep scout" in main to find gates, but they weren't there.. G5 was sOs winning though, it was too much mindgames for JD all series long to bare, he got completely "shaken" and not respond well.. Still - Game 1 is JD who lost, and G2 was a laugh-off, it was neither of the player's fault, but rather the map-designer's.. And THAT's what dictated the pace of the series - that "stupid' 2:0 to start with.. Grats for sOs for playing awesome games though.. It was JD's side that was "shaking" to not make the series longer or games better overall.. However - point was - sOs didn't "LET" JD win his one won game.. Far from that.. Unless you were being sarcastic and trolling on the forum and got me as a victim though.. That's always possible, and can be the case as well.. Uh... no this is incorrect on so many levels. sOs dominated and sooner or later people are going to have to accept that. I would recap every game of the series but I don't feel like doing it because I've been correcting people with faulty/delusional mindsets ever since the finals. JD got outplayed, out-thought, and out-classed by a brilliant player. Not once did the "map design" win a game for sOs, the game on Belshir he canceled the wall after JD canceled the hatch, so JD could've easily taken out the pylon and cannons after that. But he decided not to and instead of sOs sitting back and letting JD recover, he used the pylon guarded by cannons as a strategic location to split between JD's expo and his main, forcing him to defend 2 places at once very early in the game. Constant warp-ins and a brilliant follow up Phoenix support put JD in check-mate. That was how the game was decided, not because of "map design" like you so foolishly believed. You should probably go back and watch the series again because that is just so far from the truth it's misleading and disgraceful. GG. | ||
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