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On October 31 2013 14:54 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 14:47 Zelniq wrote:
best video 2013
This is the most important change they could do to sc2, I think.
just think of what it would do to the popularity of the game when sick micro plays are possible. the single easiest way to increase viewership and revitalize this game. people go craaaaazy over impressive micro. Imagine if impressive micro could pull you out of a deficit. It then goes beyond just "fancy play" but into actual game outcomes. And perhaps we'd have a more comebacks than we do now (which is probably my biggest SC2 gripe).
It also creates an opportunity where units countering their counters can fight back and win. It also can create an opportunity where players can really distinguish themselves with certain units.
So much potential yet it falls on deaf ears..
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Nice work, it's nice to know that this stuff can exist and the game can have way more depth...it's just a matter of getting blizzard to ever implement it.
Micromanagement really sets apart normal players from really good players. Imagine if they implemented this stuff.
We just have to hope this is not like a Smash Melee -> Brawl thing and they are going to purposely keep the game "easier."
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Thanks for this video! You did amazing work.
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On October 31 2013 14:01 Beakyboo wrote:
Some of this stuff just feels so unnecessary to me. Like do we need terrans to be able to execute perfect banshee micro vs marines with 5 banshees? Probably not. That kind of thing doesn't even make sense in the SC2 meta. Why argue for it? I don't see what we'd gain from making air units fire without delay. They basically did that with phoenixes while removing the clunky commands required to do it, and that's what you get. And that phoenix change, as I recall, seemed to basically be a direct result of Nony writing some massive post about moving shot. They aren't going to implement awkward micro maneuvers like BW has.
And why is oracle bug stuff even in this video? It's a bug. Put in a bug report about it or something. It's a separate issue. Don't use it as fuel for your "make SC2 more like BW" thingy.
Phoenix don't really have moving shot though, it's more like gliding shot. You can't choose what unit the phoenix is attacking at any point in time unless you stop the phoenix, it's easier to execute but offers less control over the unit.
If units could fire without delay, then they would be more able to kite and harass than currently. This would make harassment better without otherwise buffing units, leading to more active games, and allow players with better micro to compete in engagements they would otherwise lose, enabling more comebacks and sick plays.
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On October 31 2013 12:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 12:42 ETisME wrote:
I don't see why this isn't in blogs or even BW thread...even if it is well written I agree, I don't know why its in SC2, except that people love to point out how much "better" BW was. I am sure we will see another blog as some point about worker control or melee unit response rates and animations. Just to keep the narrative going on forever.
Posts like this feel so dishonest.
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Russian Federation262 Posts
Great job, very good content.
Hope someone from Blizz would read that!
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United States33571 Posts
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As a Terran, that modified Viking made me smile so much
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On October 31 2013 17:03 Chaggi wrote:
As a Terran, that modified Viking made me smile so much
As a Terran/Zerg/Protoss everything made me smile :D
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On October 31 2013 17:11 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 17:03 Chaggi wrote:
As a Terran, that modified Viking made me smile so much As a Terran/Zerg/ Protoss everything made me smile :D
As a protoss, it makes collossi an easier microable collossi / immortal would make it less unforgiving to get your collossi / immortal cougt out of place by enemy ground units. It will still get killed eventually if you can't support it with units fast enough because it is slower than most units, but microed correctly you might be able to get much more shots into the enemy army than before and that without slowing down.
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United States1655 Posts
Great video! I hope Blizzard takes this into serious consideration for LoTV!
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I think this would make the game so much more fun. 1A'ing so much gets boring.
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Don't post here much anymore, but i'll make an exception for this one... awesome vid!
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Those scouts are craaazy.
Whoever came up with the Stove was ahead of its time! :p
I miss Leta :[
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Glad to see this amazing and informative video/post. I've been tinkering in the editor for a long time and couldn't quite get units to behave like they do in the video.
As someone else in this thread said, a good idea would be to have this video and the key posts in this thread translated to Korean, and presented to the KR SC2 community. It might add a bit of leverage to get SC2 to the next level. It's already a great game, but adding small details which will allow players to distinguish themselves and show their personality through their play even better, will add to the longevity of the game.
Edit:
I see a lot of people worrying about flying units being able to kite infintely and so on. An example was given on Reddit where someone poses the question: "Do we want vikings to be able to kite and kill corruptors without getting hit?"
The key is, there are a lot of tasks in a game of StarCraft II. If you have units that can be controlled to a higher level, you will have to spend less time on your other tasks like Macro, positioning other units, creep spread and what have you.
In a sense, it balances itself out and raises the skill ceiling, allowing the better player to get more out of the same units and more out of other tasks. If the skill level is equal, yes you may be able to kite the corruptors, but you will lag behind on other tasks which can then be used by your opponent to compensate for your insane micro skill.
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Well, even if some might see these changes as increase in balancing (if any) and I sort of agree, inconsistency in unit control really sucks, and should be fixed. No dead stops, no weird behavior, only clear response to you commands and 100% IDENTICAL behavior 100% of the time.
Great job Lalush and descemberscalm.
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Very interesting. Good job.
But... I would like to think that the developers had this in mind when developing the game?
Is it really the developers lack of knowledge that is the problem?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a response from Blizzard, even if it is only about latency due to the fact that it is an online game as lamprey1 wrote.
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On October 31 2013 10:10 Reborn8u wrote:
I wish Blizzard would hire him to lead design for LOTV, would be an amazing game if someone with his understanding were at the helm. The skill ceiling would be so much higher and the truly best RTS players in the world would be so much more impressive to watch if they could show their full potential and talent.
I think it's safe to say that no one in the SC2 team even knows half of what was shown in that video. Frankly, I don't think they care. They got big egos and ain't going to stoop down to copying the prequel which was done by a totally different team.
And why should they even care about such matters? The micro and AI in SC2 is gorgeous. Designing a game with artificial quirks such as in BW is silly.
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On October 31 2013 17:54 Highspeedfreak wrote:
Very interesting. Good job.
But... I would like to think that the developers had this in mind when developing the game?
Is it really the developers lack of knowledge that is the problem?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a response from Blizzard, even if it is only about latency due to the fact that it is an online game as lamprey1 wrote.
They admitted they had no idea that Carrier behaved like that in BW, and based on Nony explanation they implemented it, so its reasonable to assume there is possibility that they lacked insight on those matters.
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On October 31 2013 18:05 DinoToss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 17:54 Highspeedfreak wrote:
Very interesting. Good job.
But... I would like to think that the developers had this in mind when developing the game?
Is it really the developers lack of knowledge that is the problem?
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a response from Blizzard, even if it is only about latency due to the fact that it is an online game as lamprey1 wrote. They admitted they had no idea that Carrier behaved like that in BW, and based on Nony explanation they implemented it, so its reasonable to assume there is possibility that they lacked insight on those matters.
I see. Didn't know that.
Too bad. :'(
I feel sad when I see this. Just imagine the potential of SC2 with some of this implemented.
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EPT
