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On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better.
it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction.
imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example
all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv
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On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv
And what is wrong with that? The way the game is going itll be dead before LoTV and there wont be anything left to fix.
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I would like nothing more than for Blizzard to implement this... or at least make a statement on it... I sure hope they see this quick!
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On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv
We should not improve the game because balancing it will be reset.. Its a very poor argument especially when the current mechanics and unit design has made 50% of the units redundant and balancing a nightmare job with no flexibility in map design. Not to mention how quickly the meta stagnates without any balance patches,
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On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv
To be honest for like 80% of the player base this will hardly effect them, and I may be oversimplifying it here but they could just add that 120 miliseconds back onto the attack speed itself (meaning there is no change to the attack speed at all)>
Also most of the changes effect defensive micro the most, increasing the potential of comebacks rather than straight buffs (such as an increase of stats).
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On November 01 2013 13:47 L3monsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv To be honest for like 80% of the player base this will hardly effect them, and I may be oversimplifying it here but they could just add that 120 miliseconds back onto the attack speed itself (meaning there is no change to the attack speed at all)> Also most of the changes effect defensive micro the most, increasing the potential of comebacks rather than straight buffs (such as an increase of stats).
there are different ways to improve sc2. I personally think this is the wrong way to go.
Carrier leash range for example, after blizzard put it in (properly or what not) didn't change a damn thing.
If these were add in during hots, maybe it would be ok because blizzard can do what they want with lotv to refine the changes.
but now we are approaching the last expansion and knowing blizzard wants to release lotv soon, asking for these is like begging for a half ass effort release.
people look at this video and think wow this would change SC2 forever. Just like what they did with starbow, one goal, even SC:BW etc.
all of which had huge exposure and yet the tournaments didn't get any attention at all and hardly anyone is playing it.
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I have no idea what the guy above me is talking about.
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On November 01 2013 13:40 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv And what is wrong with that? The way the game is going itll be dead before LoTV and there wont be anything left to fix. Uh. How do you reckon?
Do you even follow SC2?
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On November 01 2013 13:57 StarStruck wrote:
I have no idea what the guy above me is talking about. There have been several mods attempting to replicate BW and/or BW-style gameplay. Lots of initial community hype, some small tournaments, etc.
...And they continue to be dead mods.
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On November 01 2013 13:57 StarStruck wrote:
I have no idea what the guy above me is talking about.
Do you know blizzard is planning to release lotv faster than they did with hots?
Do you know points like economy system, limited unit selection, pathing, micro etc were all raised up during end of WoL?
Do you know lots of community projects were created like onegoal, SC:BW and starbow triying to imitate the BW as well as some of the "improved" system?
Do you know that almost no one is playing those games?
Do you know that no one is even in the chat channels?
Do you know that blizzard added the carrier leash range and yet hardly any is actually using it?
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On November 01 2013 13:47 L3monsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv To be honest for like 80% of the player base this will hardly effect them, and I may be oversimplifying it here but they could just add that 120 miliseconds back onto the attack speed itself (meaning there is no change to the attack speed at all)> Also most of the changes effect defensive micro the most, increasing the potential of comebacks rather than straight buffs (such as an increase of stats). Are you kidding me?
Even the mouthbreathing-est of bronze players can figure out IF I CLICK THIS WAY MY VIKINGS PERFORM BETTER
Because it isn't complicated
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On November 01 2013 14:04 RampancyTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:47 L3monsta wrote:On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv To be honest for like 80% of the player base this will hardly effect them, and I may be oversimplifying it here but they could just add that 120 miliseconds back onto the attack speed itself (meaning there is no change to the attack speed at all)> Also most of the changes effect defensive micro the most, increasing the potential of comebacks rather than straight buffs (such as an increase of stats). Are you kidding me? Even the mouthbreathing-est of bronze players can figure out IF I CLICK THIS WAY MY VIKINGS PERFORM BETTER Because it isn't complicated
Bronze League: "I know I'll micro my vikings (very badly) and forget to macro!"
*Later* gets completely out macroed and blames balance on the Blizzard forums.
There's a reason why you don't see stutter step in bronze and you wont see this kind of micro either.
Instead you'll see this:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-22-2013/Gd8Ach.gif
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On November 01 2013 14:03 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:57 StarStruck wrote:
I have no idea what the guy above me is talking about. Do you know blizzard is planning to release lotv faster than they did with hots? Do you know points like economy system, limited unit selection, pathing, micro etc were all raised up during end of WoL? Do you know lots of community projects were created like onegoal, SC:BW and starbow triying to imitate the BW as well as some of the "improved" system? Do you know that almost no one is playing those games? Do you know that no one is even in the chat channels? Do you know that blizzard added the carrier leash range and yet hardly any is actually using it?
This isn't the first time you were unclear (might be 2nd language; I don't really know), but this is your third post this week alone where I went what the bloody hell is he talking about?
- I might have overheard the first thing. Doesn't matter, everything with Blizzard is soonish.
- We brought up such things before. I wasn't born yesterday, but more often than not Blizzard there is a misunderstanding (see the thread about phoenixes for more).
- SC2BW you mean? Everyone knows that B.Net 2.0 was shit at release and custom maps didn't get a fair shake out of the community as a result. Also, Blizzard sanctions the maps, so the tournaments and players are pretty much forced to play those. This isn't Dota all over again. Also we're not talking about doing a direct import here. These are all technical.
- See what I said above.
- As for the Carriers. There are many reasons we never reach that point man and that doesn't address collision either. Even then, they're still pretty cost/time inefficient when it comes to the current state of the game.
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On November 01 2013 13:52 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:47 L3monsta wrote:On November 01 2013 13:34 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 bo1b wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up balance :\ The balance can be improved upon, if there is an increase in micro potential then that can only be for the better. it's not just balance, its changing the entire unit interaction. imagine that type of vikings movement killing off colossus for example all this will lead is more reworks and complete revamp of all matchups and makes it harder for blizzard to know what to add/change/remove for lotv To be honest for like 80% of the player base this will hardly effect them, and I may be oversimplifying it here but they could just add that 120 miliseconds back onto the attack speed itself (meaning there is no change to the attack speed at all)> Also most of the changes effect defensive micro the most, increasing the potential of comebacks rather than straight buffs (such as an increase of stats). there are different ways to improve sc2. I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Carrier leash range for example, after blizzard put it in (properly or what not) didn't change a damn thing. If these were add in during hots, maybe it would be ok because blizzard can do what they want with lotv to refine the changes. but now we are approaching the last expansion and knowing blizzard wants to release lotv soon, asking for these is like begging for a half ass effort release. people look at this video and think wow this would change SC2 forever. Just like what they did with starbow, one goal, even SC:BW etc. all of which had huge exposure and yet the tournaments didn't get any attention at all and hardly anyone is playing it.
I play SC:BW fairly regularly actually, I agree that they should be added in a beta rather than a patch, but they should be implemented none the less.
Also the Carrier leash range was a great addition (that should have been there regardless) however isn't seen because the unit itself isn't that good, however the patch did change things. It certainly made it easier to kite vikings for example.
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Side note: I really don't understand the reasoning behind these tricks being primarily "defensive" tricks.
They're just as valid when you're on the attack as when you're on the defense, and they'll boost aggressive capabilities just as much as defensive capabilities.
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On November 01 2013 14:19 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 14:03 ETisME wrote:On November 01 2013 13:57 StarStruck wrote:
I have no idea what the guy above me is talking about. Do you know blizzard is planning to release lotv faster than they did with hots? Do you know points like economy system, limited unit selection, pathing, micro etc were all raised up during end of WoL? Do you know lots of community projects were created like onegoal, SC:BW and starbow triying to imitate the BW as well as some of the "improved" system? Do you know that almost no one is playing those games? Do you know that no one is even in the chat channels? Do you know that blizzard added the carrier leash range and yet hardly any is actually using it? This isn't the first time you were unclear (might be 2nd language; I don't really know), but this is your third post this week alone where I went what the bloody hell is he talking about? - I might have overheard the first thing. Doesn't matter, everything with Blizzard is soonish. - We brought up such things before. I wasn't born yesterday, but more often than not Blizzard there is a misunderstanding (see the thread about phoenixes for more). - SC2BW you mean? Everyone knows that B.Net 2.0 was shit at release and custom maps didn't get a fair shake out of the community as a result. Also, Blizzard sanctions the maps, so the tournaments and players are pretty much forced to play those. This isn't Dota all over again. Also we're not talking about doing a direct import here. These are all technical. - See what I said above. - As for the Carriers. There are many reasons we never reach that point man and that doesn't address collision either. Even then, they're still pretty cost/time inefficient when it comes to the current state of the game. LOL
You heard it here first, guys. Bnet 2.0 killed SC2BW/Starbow/etc.
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On November 01 2013 14:20 RampancyTW wrote:
Side note: I really don't understand the reasoning behind these tricks being primarily "defensive" tricks.
They're just as valid when you're on the attack as when you're on the defense, and they'll boost aggressive capabilities just as much as defensive capabilities.
Because it mostly applies to kiting which is defensive because it requires the opponent attacking you (offensive). If the opponent is defending then they won't want to give chase..
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On November 01 2013 14:25 L3monsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 14:20 RampancyTW wrote:
Side note: I really don't understand the reasoning behind these tricks being primarily "defensive" tricks.
They're just as valid when you're on the attack as when you're on the defense, and they'll boost aggressive capabilities just as much as defensive capabilities. Because it mostly applies to kiting which is defensive because it requires the opponent attacking you (offensive). If the opponent is defending then they won't want to give chase.. ...No, no it doesn't. It applies to any situation where you want your units to attack theirs without being hit back, since these would give you the maneuverability to do so. Kiting alone can be used as an aggressive maneuver to whittle down a defense trying to chase you away, complete ignoring all of the "potshot" maneuvers that can arise from this.
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Ah man if only banshees were that micro intensive!
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On November 01 2013 14:32 nOlifeTERRAN wrote:
Ah man if only banshees were that micro intensive! Yeah, it would be really nice watching every single Terran pro never lose a banshee to marines ever, with zero change in micro effort
Because that would definitely be good for the game
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EPT
