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[Interview] Stork after soju - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
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gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2602 Posts
November 02 2013 20:13 GMT
#141
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




wow that *is* bad, reality TV doesn't even come close
how could someone do something so ugly and not die of embarrassment
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 02 2013 20:29 GMT
#142
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Holy shit that are quite some accusations. For an ex-KeSPA pro at least. I would not have expected this out of Sea.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
McRatyn
Profile Joined January 2013
Poland901 Posts
November 02 2013 20:35 GMT
#143
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
November 03 2013 02:56 GMT
#144
On November 03 2013 05:35 McRatyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.

It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.
McRatyn
Profile Joined January 2013
Poland901 Posts
November 03 2013 09:00 GMT
#145
On November 03 2013 11:56 lemmata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2013 05:35 McRatyn wrote:
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.

It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.


That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
November 03 2013 09:08 GMT
#146
I'm just a bit concerned that I thought fomos articles were not to be translated and used, even if sourced or something along those lines.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
mongmong
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)1389 Posts
November 03 2013 09:35 GMT
#147
On October 31 2013 18:20 shin_toss wrote:
great read. I wanna know who the BM guy is. lol



According to what I read on korean forum, It's very likely to be CJ_Bong (the kid who only did 2 base all ins in proleague)
어헣 ↗ 어헣 ↗
ChoDing
Profile Joined November 2009
United States740 Posts
November 03 2013 10:03 GMT
#148
I read in korean but who is this barcode bm youngling that is talking shit about stork.
관광 since 2008. Master of Cheese. God of Heartbreak Ridge.
lemmata
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
468 Posts
November 03 2013 21:46 GMT
#149
On November 03 2013 18:00 McRatyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2013 11:56 lemmata wrote:
On November 03 2013 05:35 McRatyn wrote:
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.

It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.


That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers


I have a theory that it is related to the following broad categories.
1) Diversity/size of original fan base
2) Corporate image-making incentives of the team sponsors
3) Guidance of older pro gamers
4) Differences in natural inclinations

#1
+ Show Spoiler +
The superstars of Brood War had a larger, more diverse fan bases than other players. Sea was a very good player, but was never a superstar. Stars with large fan bases instinctively learn not to offend subgroups of their fan bases. Furthermore, when they do make mistakes in public, they are made targets of criticism, which is a signal for them to correct their behavior. Players like JangBi and Stork both made and learned from their mistakes. People watched and enjoyed Sea's games, but he was outside of the public consciousness for the most part and did not receive a similar level of scrutiny. Bisu was such a mega superstar that he even appeared on network television, which is a huge deal. SKT would not have sent him out on such a stage without some guidance beforehand.


#2
+ Show Spoiler +
Teams like SKT/KT/Samsung (to a lesser extent Pantech) actively used their Brood War teams in their marketing strategies. These corporations had an incentive to make sure that their players would behave with some level of decorum in public or keep their mouths shut.


#3
+ Show Spoiler +
Some players received a lot more guidance from the older gamers. Think about how Boxer groomed iloveoov. It was said that Boxer also planned for Bisu to be the public face of T1. Other old gamers are also known to be grounded and thus good mentors (like Yellow, Reach, etc.). If you were lucky enough to have those guys' behavior rub off on you, then you are probably better off.


#4
+ Show Spoiler +
Of course, some people just have it and others don't. If you saw Yellow on the "The Genius" game show, then you would have agreed that the man is just a born survivor who can handle all of life's curve balls. Aside: Yellow is so awesome. Bisu has mentioned on his stream that Sea is extremely talented and even used to place ahead of Bisu in amateur tournaments. However, Sea apparently never practiced as hard as the other gamers when he was with Bisu on the MBC team. Perhaps Sea was less mature than most people to begin with.

However, even the better-prepared gamers have trouble with adjusting to life after retirement. There was that interview with Yellow, NaDa, and Nal_ra, where all of them said that they were befuddled by how unprepared they were for life after pro-gaming.


Finally, the differences between Bisu and Sea forms an interesting natural experiment on the effects of nurture versus nature.
+ Show Spoiler +
Sea and Bisu started out on the same pro team. They also attended the same high school, which was recently featured on Korean television as a school for "problem children" who had run out of second chances. They chose that school because it allowed them to skip school for pro-gaming activities. So both of them were deprived of character-building teenage experiences. However, Bisu does not behave crassly on his stream like Sea does. Bisu had advantages related to points #1, #2, #3 (and likely #4 as well) over Sea. I wonder what would have happened if Sea was on T1 and whipped into shape by oov and Boxer. Perhaps he would have become Fantasy instead of Fantasy.


I've made a lot of excuses for Sea here, but that doesn't change the fact that his behavior (and that of some other BJs) has been disgraceful and hurts pro-gaming overall---and by pro-gaming I include the potential revival of the Brood War scene. I say that as someone who desperately wishes for that revival. However, the responsibility for the immaturity of these ex-gamer man-children who are adults in name only must be shared by all. Of course, Sea is ultimately responsible for his own behavior, but there is still enough blame left over to go around.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what sort of conditions are necessary for the long-term (50+ years) sustainability of an eSports category (be it Brood War/SC2/LoL/DoTA2/whatever). Preparing non-superstars for life after retirement is probably one of the big pieces of that puzzle...
Ace Frehley
Profile Joined December 2012
2030 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-03 22:25:47
November 03 2013 22:25 GMT
#150
Interesting posts by Iemmata
From them, we can conclude that, in the brood war kespa scene, there was an immense gap in structure and professionalism between the kespa teams
Or maybe only the superstars received any kind of real life 'coaching'/guidance, whatever the team?
...
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
November 03 2013 22:40 GMT
#151
The embarrassment-centric focus of the culture proves problematic to the acceptance of streaming.

Then again i tuned into Afreeca and like every third stream was just a girl eating.

So what do i know.
bjornkavist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1235 Posts
November 05 2013 05:14 GMT
#152
Stork!!! I still believe in you!!!
https://soundcloud.com/bbols
t0ssboy
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria681 Posts
November 05 2013 09:14 GMT
#153
Dang,there go my hopes for seeing StorK in SSL .
Courage is doing what you are afraid to do.There can be no courage if there is no fear.
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
November 05 2013 09:24 GMT
#154
Yet another fantastic interview, thanks for sharing. Really sad though
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
DinoToss
Profile Joined August 2013
Poland507 Posts
November 05 2013 09:43 GMT
#155
On November 04 2013 06:46 lemmata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2013 18:00 McRatyn wrote:
On November 03 2013 11:56 lemmata wrote:
On November 03 2013 05:35 McRatyn wrote:
On November 02 2013 13:02 lemmata wrote:
On October 31 2013 11:34 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote:
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.

Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming?
A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.


Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.

I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is
1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community)
2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.

Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.


I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?

Let me list a few ways.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.

Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.

Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.

Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.

There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.

That said, there are worse BJs...

Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".

So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.

I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.




Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.

It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.


That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers


I have a theory that it is related to the following broad categories.
1) Diversity/size of original fan base
2) Corporate image-making incentives of the team sponsors
3) Guidance of older pro gamers
4) Differences in natural inclinations

#1
+ Show Spoiler +
The superstars of Brood War had a larger, more diverse fan bases than other players. Sea was a very good player, but was never a superstar. Stars with large fan bases instinctively learn not to offend subgroups of their fan bases. Furthermore, when they do make mistakes in public, they are made targets of criticism, which is a signal for them to correct their behavior. Players like JangBi and Stork both made and learned from their mistakes. People watched and enjoyed Sea's games, but he was outside of the public consciousness for the most part and did not receive a similar level of scrutiny. Bisu was such a mega superstar that he even appeared on network television, which is a huge deal. SKT would not have sent him out on such a stage without some guidance beforehand.


#2
+ Show Spoiler +
Teams like SKT/KT/Samsung (to a lesser extent Pantech) actively used their Brood War teams in their marketing strategies. These corporations had an incentive to make sure that their players would behave with some level of decorum in public or keep their mouths shut.


#3
+ Show Spoiler +
Some players received a lot more guidance from the older gamers. Think about how Boxer groomed iloveoov. It was said that Boxer also planned for Bisu to be the public face of T1. Other old gamers are also known to be grounded and thus good mentors (like Yellow, Reach, etc.). If you were lucky enough to have those guys' behavior rub off on you, then you are probably better off.


#4
+ Show Spoiler +
Of course, some people just have it and others don't. If you saw Yellow on the "The Genius" game show, then you would have agreed that the man is just a born survivor who can handle all of life's curve balls. Aside: Yellow is so awesome. Bisu has mentioned on his stream that Sea is extremely talented and even used to place ahead of Bisu in amateur tournaments. However, Sea apparently never practiced as hard as the other gamers when he was with Bisu on the MBC team. Perhaps Sea was less mature than most people to begin with.

However, even the better-prepared gamers have trouble with adjusting to life after retirement. There was that interview with Yellow, NaDa, and Nal_ra, where all of them said that they were befuddled by how unprepared they were for life after pro-gaming.


Finally, the differences between Bisu and Sea forms an interesting natural experiment on the effects of nurture versus nature.
+ Show Spoiler +
Sea and Bisu started out on the same pro team. They also attended the same high school, which was recently featured on Korean television as a school for "problem children" who had run out of second chances. They chose that school because it allowed them to skip school for pro-gaming activities. So both of them were deprived of character-building teenage experiences. However, Bisu does not behave crassly on his stream like Sea does. Bisu had advantages related to points #1, #2, #3 (and likely #4 as well) over Sea. I wonder what would have happened if Sea was on T1 and whipped into shape by oov and Boxer. Perhaps he would have become Fantasy instead of Fantasy.


I've made a lot of excuses for Sea here, but that doesn't change the fact that his behavior (and that of some other BJs) has been disgraceful and hurts pro-gaming overall---and by pro-gaming I include the potential revival of the Brood War scene. I say that as someone who desperately wishes for that revival. However, the responsibility for the immaturity of these ex-gamer man-children who are adults in name only must be shared by all. Of course, Sea is ultimately responsible for his own behavior, but there is still enough blame left over to go around.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what sort of conditions are necessary for the long-term (50+ years) sustainability of an eSports category (be it Brood War/SC2/LoL/DoTA2/whatever). Preparing non-superstars for life after retirement is probably one of the big pieces of that puzzle...

Thank you for your great insight.
My wrist really started to flare up. My colossi number started to pile up and with the last of my concentration I prepared for a win.
therockmanxx
Profile Joined July 2010
Peru1174 Posts
November 26 2013 22:13 GMT
#156
watching progamer in re-stream from tv is a totally diferent thing that watching them live stream ...
there are things foreigns didnt know before -.-
Tekken ProGamer
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
November 29 2013 22:17 GMT
#157
Stork... my true hero.

May you rise again.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
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