EPTSK MC's thoughts on the current state of SC2 - Page 25
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vNmMasterT
68 Posts
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
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forumtext
575 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Eh, I don't know. Did we see that many different strategies in bw? TvP was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with a couple of dropships) TvT was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with maybe half a dozen dropships) TvZ was bio (marine, medic + science vessel and vultures in the lategame and few dropships) Maybe some players also went mech in TvZ, but that was more because it was their style. Flash did complained that in SC2 Terran is all Bio. At Korean pro level, Mech is not even a choice. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:36 rice_devOurer wrote: Hey~~~ you did watch taeja vs rain right? Not everyone is Taeja... For Platinum-Diamond players like us, good luck trying to win against Protoss Deathball with Storms. STORMS AWAY! | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On September 03 2013 02:01 geokilla wrote: I think MC absolutely nailed it with his thought son SC2. Right now, I don't even want to play anymore. Not everyone is Taeja... For Platinum-Diamond players like us, good luck trying to win against Protoss Deathball with Storms. STORMS AWAY! Blizzard doesn't and really shouldn't balance around that level of play though. In a perfect world that would be possible, but we're far from being in that perfect world of balance. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10167 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:36 rice_devOurer wrote: Hey~~~ you did watch taeja vs rain right? I am pretty sure you are referring to the game where taeja inflicted a lot of economical damage in the early/midgame and was so ahead that he could get a silly amount of CC. | ||
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forumtext
575 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Eh, I don't know. Did we see that many different strategies in bw? TvP was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with a couple of dropships) TvT was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with maybe half a dozen dropships) TvZ was bio (marine, medic + science vessel and vultures in the lategame and few dropships) Maybe some players also went mech in TvZ, but that was more because it was their style. This is not correct. Allow me to elaborate: TvP was usually mech due to the durability of Protoss units. They would open up with vulture harass that would continue at all stages of the game, forcing P to make sim city at ramps and place cannons in mineral lines when they could spare the resources. It would usually involve some sort of P or T timing push at 1/1 or 2/2 (if using flash's builds). Dropships were mainly for dropping vultures around and continuing the constant harassment. Tank/Vulture/Goliath/Mine with turrets and establishing positions was the main composition. Eventually the P would move towards air strats as well and there were even 3 base carrier styles that were viable even at the highest level. TvT was also usually mech but with a big difference. TvT was seen almost like chess in that it was entirely postioning and slower movement but with bigger action battles. Another huge difference is that dropships were used a lot. Having 6-8 dropships to grab half the army and move it up on a cliff or around a flank to a better position was very common in higher level play. Also lategame revolved around a mech air switch that was quite consistent with Battlecruisers becoming the desired unit. TvZ was the most dynamic of all. It used to be a marine/tank deathpush at about 9 minutes and if that failed, you had taken a third behind it and would defend with more marine/tank. Eventually this was seen as inferior to the bio into mech switch that became popular and still is popular in the end of BW's lifespan. The idea that you could start entirely bio with 4-5 rax and then suddenly switch to vultures during your 9 minute push with mines securing the map led to 4-5 factories pumping huge amounts of tanks and vultures keeping the zerg on their toes because defiler and lurker pushes were suddenly completely unusable to end the game after defeating the bio push. Some really good Terrans could even keep most of the 9 minute push alive and use that to make their army a very mech-heavy bio army with tons of mines and constant expansion behind the middle map control. Zergs and Terrans are still forced to this day to use almost every tech option in the game at some point in order to win. There's almost no tech other than maybe BCs that aren't used in this matchup even now. Also, pure mech was completely doable and viable, forcing yet another completely different feel to the match. Zerg would have to make hydra/muta in order to stop mech which was seen as incredibly powerful in the matchup throughout pretty much every year. Every matchup in BW is more dynamic than the ones we see in SC2. There just aren't a huge variety of builds or timings you can go anymore. BW if you didn't scout every few minutes, you just plain would lose to a competent player who realized "hey, he doesn't know what I'm doing! I can do this and be deadly!" | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Eh, I don't know. Did we see that many different strategies in bw? TvP was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with a couple of dropships) TvT was mech (tank + vulture, goliath support with maybe half a dozen dropships) TvZ was bio (marine, medic + science vessel and vultures in the lategame and few dropships) Maybe some players also went mech in TvZ, but that was more because it was their style. eventhough bw had one strat for every matchup each game was totally different from another. Bw had important units which if used properly could decide outcome of the battle/game. SC2 lacks such powerful units and games tend to be similar to each other. Since both players don't have any tools to turn things around. e.g. roughly bw powerful units are arbiters, vessels, tanks, reavers, defilers, lurkers... | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:59 vNmMasterT wrote: so this protoss player MC who is known for his all-ins and agressive "timings", writes a fucking essay to basically say TvZ is imbalanced in favor of T. When talking about the PvT matchup, which has its own fair share of issues, he writes one sentence about how there is still "an intensive micro battle between high templars vs. ghosts" in macro games. Sounds legit. What does him being know for all-ins have to do with anything? I don't think he is writing a "fucking essay" to say TvZ is imbalanced, he is more talking about how the match-up is now very one-dimensional and boring thanks to 4M Not sure what the lack of discussion about PvT has to do with anything, he is addressing ZvT because that is in his mind the most stagnant boring matchup currently | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
The BossToss delivers. MC fighting! | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 03 2013 02:10 Chewbacca. wrote: I don't think he is writing a "fucking essay" to say TvZ is imbalanced, he is more talking about how the match-up is now very one-dimensional and boring thanks to 4M ... being the only composition able to deal with Zerg's new tools. You're welcome. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On September 03 2013 02:15 TheDwf wrote: ... being the only composition able to deal with Zerg's new tools. You're welcome. Can you elaborate on this? | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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vNmMasterT
68 Posts
"Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks" "Terrans don’t even need to scout." "They don’t care if they lose it [medivac drops] because it’s not risky at all" "Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units." "They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines." what the fuck!? The whole balance portion of the post is not worthy of a progamer and is actually shameful. He's only getting away with this since he's won a lot of money in SC2. All the while he is keeping his mouth shut about all the protoss issues. | ||
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Pegas
Romania211 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:59 vNmMasterT wrote: so this protoss player MC who is known for his all-ins and agressive "timings", writes a fucking essay to basically say TvZ is imbalanced in favor of T. As a Toss that you want to win with current game mechanics (and past in sc2) you had to do it because when MC was winning almost anything if I recall corectly EMP was soooo overpowered. That did not changed much since than , it went more downhill evan. The way Terran trades MMMM you need godlike storms and HT positioning or u lost (a thing that casual and evan GM level players do not manage to do in a consistent way). Now we can all argue on the T race day and night but the fact that Terran wins only with this composition and just upgrades. That is somehow realy bad not evan from a gamer pov but also from a spectator pov. If I recall corectly in BW you could not stay in ANY matchup only on bio.You would just flat out die. But I`ll ask you when did you saw last time a game in the GSL where or any decent competition where a Terran that went for starport/factory units won anything major (don`t give the hellbat as an example because was terribly op)? Regarding Zergs , when did you last saw Hive units delivering the finish blow (winning a game - yes in WoL u had the bl/infestor/ultra deathball but the real culprit was the infestor which was a lair unit)? Now if Zerg manages to keep the agression enough to be ahead (or straight cheese) than they win it with hatch/lair units but as I see it hive units atm have ZERO impact in winning or loosing a game. tl;dr : End game tech have no impact winning or loosing a game except maybe HT for protoss so that is why early agressioon is necesary which makes game a routine for players and viewers alike nothing exciting happens. | ||
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insanet
Peru439 Posts
You are fool if you think they will change anything in LoTV. Just enjoy what you like about current SC2, and wait till SC3 | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 03 2013 01:19 Vanadiel wrote: Was it this awesome game that ended terribly with piou piou snipe? Like all TvZs pre snipe nerf! + Show Spoiler + And people are still complaining about snipe nerf sometimes, lol | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
On September 03 2013 02:23 lolfail9001 wrote: Like all TvZs pre snipe nerf! + Show Spoiler + And people are still complaining about snipe nerf sometimes, lol I thought people forgot about that. lol. Make 30 Ghosts and snipe the fuck out of everything. I remember those days. So imba. | ||
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