On August 29 2013 23:33 SerADeadzerg wrote: F1-F6 Camera locations for bases Set these locations roughly at the start of the game and once the expo starts construction center the screen and reset these locations. This makes transferring workers easier. Also, I dislike using the Jump Through Bases button which is default Backspace. This key jumps to the closest base but for this reason it is very inefficient for all tasks other than injecting larva.
Bold part is completely incorrect. The key 'cycles' through your bases in a rotation, and each successive keypress picks up where the last one left off in the sequence. It has nothing to do with "closest base".
On August 29 2013 23:33 SerADeadzerg wrote: F1-F6 Camera locations for bases Set these locations roughly at the start of the game and once the expo starts construction center the screen and reset these locations. This makes transferring workers easier. Also, I dislike using the Jump Through Bases button which is default Backspace. This key jumps to the closest base but for this reason it is very inefficient for all tasks other than injecting larva.
Bold part is completely incorrect. The key 'cycles' through your bases in a rotation, and each successive keypress picks up where the last one left off in the sequence. It has nothing to do with "closest base".
Thank you, editing the guide to be accurate. Still a frustrating key to use if you aren't Zerg.
Really cool guide for the nubies. I like to open discussion like this.
I wonder if there is a standard table height? Like for tournaments. I think my desk is a little high. Most of the stuff you find online regarding posture and desk height is for office work.
On August 30 2013 07:35 Danglars wrote: So basically vaderseven's guide touching on some side issues and some pretty authoritarian viewpoints on currently debated topics. I liked the section on mechanical keyboards and rebinding for some control groups. I have a lot of personal differences on topics that you consider essential and other mechanics-focused (and for coaches, the pedagogy of mechanics) players consider nonessential. That won't be my focus here. I'll describe a couple main issues with the guide.
Spam The short answer will always be YES for players focused on improving their mechanics, becoming faster players. It's too great a benefit for breaking old slow mechanics and too jump start your handspeed. It cannot be skipped. In the normal self analysis phase (watch your own recorded VODS), late in your development you may notice you're spamming in midgame and ignoring essential actions. If that is the case, then cease spamming. Skipping the YES answer is hamstringing the learning of mechanics whether or not you have to take some time handling an addiction to midgame spam way later on (Guide already has the mechanics of spotting this problem when it rears its ugly head and affects you).
Ladder All you know on ladder is that you will be practicing mechanics just like you trained alone. Any matchup, every matchup, any cheese, every cheese. While cheese and odd things is a distraction, you are training mechanics through distractions. If you have problems wrapping your head around that, get your head-space or try some psych tricks.
Essentially, if your problem is ladder stress, then your problem is ladder stress and not choosing to improve your mechanics during ladder. I agree that practice partners and AI come first. I disagree that ladder is necessarily bad. Anything lost in ladder can be regained, it is literally your plaything until you move from mechanics-only to the finer touches of how your race plays and responds. Reduce that medium stress hurdle to low stress and improve those mechanics on ladder!
Secondly, you don't need to focus on strategy first in the AI and Practice Partner development. You can go practice on ladder, skip the strategy, and go full mechanics. Learning the strategy behind things is in your own time, and it can be daunting to think that I need a solid grasp of both strategy and mechanics (You say "feel very confident") before you approach ladder. It is a tool for mechanics and it's as much stress as you let it have over you. For a guide that unlearns hotkeys and approaches for tons of players, it isn't an increase in difficulty in learning how to train mechanics with ladder.
Recording yourself Do record yourself VODs using OBS or Xsplit streameds or local recording! In the original and long-standing mechanics guide on TeamLiquid, it goes over why.
Mistakes: Look for times when you are giving the same command several times in a row (right click spamming) (You can do this early on to help spam/warm up but only if it is not causing you to be late on whatever you are supposed to do next) Look for times when your money floats too high or when you get supply blocked and how you deal with it (missing a macro cycle and how long this effects you) Look for times when you are not reacting to the Minimap properly (your army or base is attacked and you do not move to handle the situation as soon as it happens) Look for times when your mouse seems to move slowly to accomplish something that a sure and quick gesture could accomplish (a great example is when you are placing a building, was an almost instant movement and click or was it a slow drag of the building placement indicator to the desired spot?)
Nice Things: Look for times when you look at your base right when you need to make supply, units, tech, and/or buildings and you do so in an almost instant fashion Look for times when you give one quick sure command in an exact fashion with one click (sending a probe to scout another main should take exactly 1 right click / movement command [not 5+ which many players do]) Look for times when you react instantly to things on the Minimap
Overall: Always be looking for how fast you are able to accomplish any given task (a macro cycle, transferring workers, etc) and pay attention to EXACTLY how you accomplish it and ask simple questions and give yourself honest answers about if it could be faster.
Now you have ID'd several things about your play from a mechanical viewpoint. What now? Make connections. Where you late on starting your Forge during a PvZ where you were going Forge Fast Expand? Why was that? Where you busy scouting and giving your scouting probe 6 right click movement commands that were basically to the same exact spot? How bout in a TvT where your minerals went above 1000. What was going on then? Where you reacting to a drop you just saw on the Minimap?
emphasis mine
Making and analyzing your own VODs instead of replays is an incredibly important tool in developing your mechanics. Analyzing your own replays is good and spots all kinds of mistakes. Analyzing your own VODs helps identify where you were looking someplace out (mouse cursor is captured) as well as a host of other things--mistakes you never knew you were making. It's a step removed from going out to the store and spending money and piling books, and if you hit that masters league and want to do all kinds of fun tournaments, you can add in the posture, head angle, and tension.
Oh my god, forgot the most important part! Somehow I missed that the SALT project was still current for hots! Thank you for showing me that its in Custom Games and not Arcade (Doh) and that the HOTS maps are on it and functioning.
On August 31 2013 00:57 TRaFFiC wrote: Really cool guide for the nubies. I like to open discussion like this.
I wonder if there is a standard table height? Like for tournaments. I think my desk is a little high. Most of the stuff you find online regarding posture and desk height is for office work.
I would expect it to be pretty much the same.
I was reading through the initial post, which can certainly be described as extensive. While reading I mainly thought it was pretty extreme everything. Also quite often imo you are just pushing your personal preference, but okay. So I was wondering to which players this was aimed. Considering how extreme everything was my guess was sub-pros, so lets say GMs/high masters who want to get a bit further.
Imagine my surprise when I came to this part:
100% of your games vs AI until you feel your mechanics have become consistent. Then spend 75%~ of your time vs AI or vs Practice partners. When you feel very confident in both strategy and mechanics go ladder until you lose, and then practice specifically against that.
Wait, wut? We are talking about people who should only be practising vs AI? Later you call them diamond-masters in skill. Personally I doubt you beat he average gold player when only playing vs AI: Not only do I doubt it is so easy to beat a 2-rax as you claim if you only play AI, but you also simply completely miss the practise against common tactics the AI does not use. Granted I don't play much vs AI (read: pretty much never), but last time I did the strat the AI used had little to do with what I see on ladder. So you are playing against builds that you will never run into, and more problematic, you aren't playing against builds you will run into.
And sure watching streams will give you some idea of those builds, but it isn't the same as playing against them.
Now to make my point: imo if you worry about all this stuff and play like this you really should be wondering if you aren't taking the game way too serious. It is supposed to be fun, now I understand people want to become better, but what are you giving up for it? If you aren't at the very least mid-masters by just playing casual you will never become a pro player. Sure it is nice to become better, but doing it like this is making it your job. I am afraid many who do it will practise alot, become better still be a no-name, and suddenly realise they don't actually enjoy what they are doing.
Of course everyone has to do what he/she wants to do. But don't stop playing for fun simply because of the illusion of becoming a pro. And maybe it is just me, but I don't see it as more fun if I have to remove keys from my keyboard, disable my horrible youtube playlist and lower graphics settings. Yes if you do everything you might play at a higher level. And you still win only 50% of the games. Yeah you might get a bit further in the tournament organized at your university (or random other local tournament), but thats it.
On August 30 2013 05:14 SerADeadzerg wrote: Mechanical keyboards should specify that they are mechanical... They will have a stat like Cherry Brown/Black/Blue/Red switches. You would most likely want Brown/Red/Blue (I play with Brown) as Black takes considerably more force to activate. Check out the keyboard enthusiast thread here on teamliquid, it has tones of useful information!
Black switches don't require that much extra force. They require the same force as blue and slightly more then browns (although it is right before they actuate), while still requiring ~%20-%30 less force then rubber domes. If you're going to get a mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend trying every switch, and then making a decision.
I read this quite often related to rubber dome vs mechanical. However everywhere where they actually state rubber dome actuation force it is roughly the same as mechanical keyboards are specced as. Sure might be more variations, but not less force on average. And those are just the average ones, you can also get rubber domes which require only little force.
Personally I doubt you beat he average gold player when only playing vs AI: Not only do I doubt it is so easy to beat a 2-rax as you claim if you only play AI, but you also simply completely miss the practise against common tactics the AI does not use. Granted I don't play much vs AI (read: pretty much never), but last time I did the strat the AI used had little to do with what I see on ladder. So you are playing against builds that you will never run into, and more problematic, you aren't playing against builds you will run into.
First off, he's high Masters, and the lessons contained within the guide are aimed at anyone and everyone who wish to dedicate themselves to seriously improving - anywhere from bronze to masters and even higher. Of course this is all based off of his own experience and preference, as all such guides on the subject inherently must be. He talks about how after having a solid basis of mechanics you should find practice players to play against - not just AI. So your dig about "doubt[ing] he [could] beat he [sic] average gold player when only playing vs AI" is baseless and BS, because you strawman what he is saying, and replace his argument with a weaker one - just sayin'.
Second, getting into what you said about playing versus AI: The point of that part of the practice strategy isn't to learn how to counter builds, but has the very specific focus of improving mechanics. You're entirely missing the point of the exercise.
Now of course this guide isn't for everyone. It's not for casuals who just want to play a game here and there after they get home from work, it's for people who enjoy Starcraft as a hobby and have a passion for it, for those that want to improve and challenge themselves.
I was watching Hero stream today. I found his mechanics and multitasking just astonishing. There were moments when I couldn't even tell how he was doing stuff.
Now I'm watching Grubby stream and... Hero is just a league above him. Isn't even funny how better he is. How better he is in comparison to any other protoss streamer.
Then I was thinking and came to this conclusion: before anything, you have to improve your mechanics. Its the most important factor of this game. If your mechanics suck, you'll just waste time discussing builds, and strategies and such.
Besides the common things that all we know and others that were posted on this thread, watching Hero playing I came to this three things:
1 - Screen hotkeys. You should never screen scroll with mouse. 2 - Hotkey each unit in the moment you build it. 3 - Keep moving your army nonstop (wisely).
On August 31 2013 07:57 Tiaraju9 wrote: I was watching Hero stream today. I found his mechanics and multitasking just astonishing. There were moments when I couldn't even tell how he was doing stuff.
Now I'm watching Grubby stream and... Hero is just a league above him. Isn't even funny how better he is. How better he is in comparison to any other protoss streamer.
Then I was thinking and came to this conclusion: before anything, you have to improve your mechanics. Its the most important factor of this game. If your mechanics suck, you'll just waste time discussing builds, and strategies and such.
Besides the common things that all we know and others that were posted on this thread, watching Hero playing I came to this three things:
1 - Screen hotkeys. You should never screen scroll with mouse. 2 - Hotkey each unit in the moment you build it. 3 - Keep moving your army nonstop (wisely).
How important are this three things?
I actually had a similar experience to you when I saw Jaedong stream yesterday. He is so exceptional.
1 - Scrolling the screen can be okay for quickly seeing things in battles but that problem with it is that you are moving your camera while staring at the main screen. If you spend the majority of your time clicking on the minimap to move around you will be looking at the minimap more maximizing your map awareness (provided you have good vision with units). Screen locations are also super important in executing tasks like probe transfers, chromo boosts, warp ins, larva injects etc. These tasks can be very tedious without them.
2 - Yeah this is important. If you don't it might get left behind. If you want units left behind in your base for defence though obviously don't hotkey them.
3 - Yeah. Either move it and be active all the time or pick a smart location to defend in. When you move around a lot it should be for a reason. Perhaps to pressure the opponent or to react to the army movement of your opponent. You can also be just poking trying to find a hole or catch him out of position.
On August 31 2013 00:57 TRaFFiC wrote: Really cool guide for the nubies. I like to open discussion like this.
I wonder if there is a standard table height? Like for tournaments. I think my desk is a little high. Most of the stuff you find online regarding posture and desk height is for office work.
I would expect it to be pretty much the same.
I was reading through the initial post, which can certainly be described as extensive. While reading I mainly thought it was pretty extreme everything. Also quite often imo you are just pushing your personal preference, but okay. So I was wondering to which players this was aimed. Considering how extreme everything was my guess was sub-pros, so lets say GMs/high masters who want to get a bit further.
100% of your games vs AI until you feel your mechanics have become consistent. Then spend 75%~ of your time vs AI or vs Practice partners. When you feel very confident in both strategy and mechanics go ladder until you lose, and then practice specifically against that.
Wait, wut? We are talking about people who should only be practising vs AI? Later you call them diamond-masters in skill. Personally I doubt you beat he average gold player when only playing vs AI: Not only do I doubt it is so easy to beat a 2-rax as you claim if you only play AI, but you also simply completely miss the practise against common tactics the AI does not use. Granted I don't play much vs AI (read: pretty much never), but last time I did the strat the AI used had little to do with what I see on ladder. So you are playing against builds that you will never run into, and more problematic, you aren't playing against builds you will run into.
And sure watching streams will give you some idea of those builds, but it isn't the same as playing against them.
Now to make my point: imo if you worry about all this stuff and play like this you really should be wondering if you aren't taking the game way too serious. It is supposed to be fun, now I understand people want to become better, but what are you giving up for it? If you aren't at the very least mid-masters by just playing casual you will never become a pro player. Sure it is nice to become better, but doing it like this is making it your job. I am afraid many who do it will practise alot, become better still be a no-name, and suddenly realise they don't actually enjoy what they are doing.
Of course everyone has to do what he/she wants to do. But don't stop playing for fun simply because of the illusion of becoming a pro. And maybe it is just me, but I don't see it as more fun if I have to remove keys from my keyboard, disable my horrible youtube playlist and lower graphics settings. Yes if you do everything you might play at a higher level. And you still win only 50% of the games. Yeah you might get a bit further in the tournament organized at your university (or random other local tournament), but thats it.
On August 30 2013 05:14 SerADeadzerg wrote: Mechanical keyboards should specify that they are mechanical... They will have a stat like Cherry Brown/Black/Blue/Red switches. You would most likely want Brown/Red/Blue (I play with Brown) as Black takes considerably more force to activate. Check out the keyboard enthusiast thread here on teamliquid, it has tones of useful information!
Black switches don't require that much extra force. They require the same force as blue and slightly more then browns (although it is right before they actuate), while still requiring ~%20-%30 less force then rubber domes. If you're going to get a mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend trying every switch, and then making a decision.
I read this quite often related to rubber dome vs mechanical. However everywhere where they actually state rubber dome actuation force it is roughly the same as mechanical keyboards are specced as. Sure might be more variations, but not less force on average. And those are just the average ones, you can also get rubber domes which require only little force.
2 ears, 1 mouth man. You write this long post, but fail to understand OP.
1) Playing AI is a great way to practice new builds and get them PERFECT so when you`re being harassed, you got your timings crisp in a real game.
2)Black switches do require ALOT of extra force. Trust me, I been playing on the steelseries 6gv2 with blacks for 6 months and am swapping it for reds ASAP.
This should be on resources in action, perhaps spoilered (You'll see the variance between Ser's shoulds and pro-gamer real preferences, but the core essentials are there): Khaldor's FPVODs
There's more, but the videos I linked include the hotkeys & camera hotkeys and spam (YES). You can see the smoothness of flicking through the battlefield using minimap and hotkeys. On the closeups you can see the gamers macroing while starting or continuing a harass or engagement. It's pretty instructive. Complete list here.
Personally I doubt you beat he average gold player when only playing vs AI: Not only do I doubt it is so easy to beat a 2-rax as you claim if you only play AI, but you also simply completely miss the practise against common tactics the AI does not use. Granted I don't play much vs AI (read: pretty much never), but last time I did the strat the AI used had little to do with what I see on ladder. So you are playing against builds that you will never run into, and more problematic, you aren't playing against builds you will run into.
First off, he's high Masters, and the lessons contained within the guide are aimed at anyone and everyone who wish to dedicate themselves to seriously improving - anywhere from bronze to masters and even higher. Of course this is all based off of his own experience and preference, as all such guides on the subject inherently must be. He talks about how after having a solid basis of mechanics you should find practice players to play against - not just AI. So your dig about "doubt[ing] he [could] beat he [sic] average gold player when only playing vs AI" is baseless and BS, because you strawman what he is saying, and replace his argument with a weaker one - just sayin'.
Wow nice ad-hominem attack. Next you are going to say I kill kittens as a hobby and pull the wings out of butterflies? I didn't say he couldn't beat the average gold, I said I doubted that the target of his post who should only play vs ai can then beat the average gold. That you disagree with what I write, fine, everyone his opinion. But accusing me of complete BS to make me look bad is extremely sad.
it's for people who enjoy Starcraft as a hobby and have a passion for it, for those that want to improve and challenge themselves.
So yeah, if you enjoy SC as a hobby I really wouldn't take it this serious myself by not playing with music anymore and pulling out keys of your keyboard.
On August 31 2013 00:57 TRaFFiC wrote: Really cool guide for the nubies. I like to open discussion like this.
I wonder if there is a standard table height? Like for tournaments. I think my desk is a little high. Most of the stuff you find online regarding posture and desk height is for office work.
I would expect it to be pretty much the same.
I was reading through the initial post, which can certainly be described as extensive. While reading I mainly thought it was pretty extreme everything. Also quite often imo you are just pushing your personal preference, but okay. So I was wondering to which players this was aimed. Considering how extreme everything was my guess was sub-pros, so lets say GMs/high masters who want to get a bit further.
Imagine my surprise when I came to this part:
100% of your games vs AI until you feel your mechanics have become consistent. Then spend 75%~ of your time vs AI or vs Practice partners. When you feel very confident in both strategy and mechanics go ladder until you lose, and then practice specifically against that.
Wait, wut? We are talking about people who should only be practising vs AI? Later you call them diamond-masters in skill. Personally I doubt you beat he average gold player when only playing vs AI: Not only do I doubt it is so easy to beat a 2-rax as you claim if you only play AI, but you also simply completely miss the practise against common tactics the AI does not use. Granted I don't play much vs AI (read: pretty much never), but last time I did the strat the AI used had little to do with what I see on ladder. So you are playing against builds that you will never run into, and more problematic, you aren't playing against builds you will run into.
And sure watching streams will give you some idea of those builds, but it isn't the same as playing against them.
Now to make my point: imo if you worry about all this stuff and play like this you really should be wondering if you aren't taking the game way too serious. It is supposed to be fun, now I understand people want to become better, but what are you giving up for it? If you aren't at the very least mid-masters by just playing casual you will never become a pro player. Sure it is nice to become better, but doing it like this is making it your job. I am afraid many who do it will practise alot, become better still be a no-name, and suddenly realise they don't actually enjoy what they are doing.
Of course everyone has to do what he/she wants to do. But don't stop playing for fun simply because of the illusion of becoming a pro. And maybe it is just me, but I don't see it as more fun if I have to remove keys from my keyboard, disable my horrible youtube playlist and lower graphics settings. Yes if you do everything you might play at a higher level. And you still win only 50% of the games. Yeah you might get a bit further in the tournament organized at your university (or random other local tournament), but thats it.
On August 30 2013 05:14 SerADeadzerg wrote: Mechanical keyboards should specify that they are mechanical... They will have a stat like Cherry Brown/Black/Blue/Red switches. You would most likely want Brown/Red/Blue (I play with Brown) as Black takes considerably more force to activate. Check out the keyboard enthusiast thread here on teamliquid, it has tones of useful information!
Black switches don't require that much extra force. They require the same force as blue and slightly more then browns (although it is right before they actuate), while still requiring ~%20-%30 less force then rubber domes. If you're going to get a mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend trying every switch, and then making a decision.
I read this quite often related to rubber dome vs mechanical. However everywhere where they actually state rubber dome actuation force it is roughly the same as mechanical keyboards are specced as. Sure might be more variations, but not less force on average. And those are just the average ones, you can also get rubber domes which require only little force.
2 ears, 1 mouth man. You write this long post, but fail to understand OP.
1) Playing AI is a great way to practice new builds and get them PERFECT so when you`re being harassed, you got your timings crisp in a real game.
2)Black switches do require ALOT of extra force. Trust me, I been playing on the steelseries 6gv2 with blacks for 6 months and am swapping it for reds ASAP.
Okay, I fail to understand the OP. Maybe mention how? I think I understand the OP pretty fine. I just think it is a little on the extreme side for everyone who isn't at least mid-high masters and wants to become better. And I worry if you use it as random plat player you will certainly get better, but after a while suddenly realise it is another job for you instead of a hobby.
1. There is a difference between playing vs AI to practise a new build and get the timings correct (I can understand that fine), and only playing versus AI.
2. Huh? So you say blacks require alot more force, and the one I reacted on said they require alot less force. This is kinda confusing tbh.
On August 31 2013 09:14 Gorilla23 wrote: I've never understood why people remove the tilda key. I mean, if you use tab and 1, why would you not use tilda? It's right there...
I always thought the same thing so I rebound one of my control groups to tilde but for some reason I never use it. I want to use it but I never press it.
2. Huh? So you say blacks require alot more force, and the one I reacted on said they require alot less force. This is kinda confusing tbh.
Black switches require a lot more force, I second that, they just don't have a sensible actuation point like blues or browns, which makes them easier to use in an RTS than those (which are best for typing). But I have been using red switches for almost a year now (which are basically blacks with less actuation force required) and I must say these are by far the best I've ever tried for playing this game (so so much better than everything else).
Pretty damn good advice all around. Some of it is nonsense though, like the comments about weight lifting are based solely on his own experiences, not on solid research. I am not sure he has played with a black switch keyboard either. I have a ducky shine II with black switches, and can play all day, the switches don't feel tough at all. Anyway, thats my only two problems with this guide.
Great read! Some stuff I disagree with and isn't necessarily the best or most optimal and is just personal preference but alot of the stuff in there was really valuable.
On August 31 2013 20:17 BaneRiders wrote: One question: Why should mouse sensitivity be disabled? Isn't it rather helpful if you get used to 100% mouse sensitivity?
100% mouse sensitivity is very inaccurate, because it's most likely skipping pixels on your screen.
EPT
