On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
See this is what i really dislike. This constant doomsaying no matter what. Pro's say to be positive? Clearly he does not truly think so and is just being a PR machine but the second they say something negative its all over the place. Let's not even begin with this "reading between the lines" bullshit people here love to do.
What? He only wrote one possible interpretation of what Flash said, and you can read it too.
On September 06 2013 08:36 oneofthem wrote: it's like asking a Go player to play tic tac toe, yea there's a lot of money and his career involved, but it's no longer a passion he can commit to on his own.
actually not tic tac toe, just rock scissor paper. the former is balanced LOL
Yeah man that fucking rock has too high of a winrate! Paper and scissors clearly need a buff
It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
On September 06 2013 05:39 larse wrote: Flash Interview after Today's GSL: "My heart hurts when I saw Jangbi retired. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point.
A quick translation of Flash Interview after Today's GSL.
Q: You are worrying about WCS points?
Flash: This is the last chance for the WCS points. My priority now is to get more WCS points. I need to overcome the curse of RO16.
Q: Does Jaedong stimulate you?
Flash: Instead of stimulating, I think JD gave me great support. In the situation of lots of retirement, JD is fighting hard on his own. That's wonderful.
Q: How is your streaming?
Flash: I went to vocation for month, and then I played 4-5 days before streaming. My mood is much better after vocation and I can keep going now. Please forgot my performance. I am kinda unfamiliar with that. There won't be that kind of performance anymore.
Q: Some final thought?
Flash: When I was back from Thailand, I have cleaned up my mood. A few months ago, my mind was in a complicated situation. Jangbi and other skillful players' retirement is really a regretful thing. My heart hurts when I saw the news. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point. But I have stabilized my mind now. To fulfill the promise of my fans, I will keep working hard.
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
On September 06 2013 08:36 oneofthem wrote: it's like asking a Go player to play tic tac toe, yea there's a lot of money and his career involved, but it's no longer a passion he can commit to on his own.
actually not tic tac toe, just rock scissor paper. the former is balanced LOL
Standard tictactoe isn't balanced.
It is possible for the first player to never lose.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
Great comment going unnoticed. Thanks, sums up what I've been thinking for a long time : SC2 is too easy to be truely interesting.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
ur a r*tard, he obviously meant sc1 games are more adrenaline rush for the players than sc2..
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
ur a r*tard, he obviously meant sc1 games are more adrenaline rush for the players than sc2..
Lol no, also for the viewer, because you've got many of those "mind=blown" moments, when they magically make something happen that you can't even imagine ever doing yourself.
I just wished more things happened in SC2, because it is kind of illogical that less things happen during engagements, despite them being easier.
It has to do with automatization of certain behaviors, like the moment you break the first line of your opponents in TvT and you get superior position, the game most of the time ends there.
Innovation vs MMA game 2, Artosis said "At this level even when you are ahead but you make a mistake, you lose. No its not even that your opponent is back in the game, you lose" (paraphrasing)
I think that shows the difference between BW and SC2, the unlinearity of BW unit/macro/micro makes that most of the "you are back in the game" instead of "you win".
In the memory of recent retiree.
Before the big push JangBi was "dead", however the most epic storm turnover in history of BW, evened out the field, JB did not win outright, he won the game later, because he had +3 mining bases and succesful economy storm drop.
Lalush was saying he is preparing some big article summarizing the differences in eco etc. between games. So why that happens probably will be there.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
The highest factor that differentiates pros in SC2 is decision making. Sure mechanics aren't perfected, but mostly everyone is equal on those. There are a couple of outliers like Bomber's macro used to be or more recently Innovation but those aren't enough of a factor to make a big difference in player skill just because of how SC2 works.
I do not know why you bring up leap frogging/storms when they are much more impressive in BW all because of how tough is to control and manage units.
I will give you that the dynamic between ghost HT/warprism is interesting.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
One's more difficult, the other is less.
More difficulty to pull off = more respect given = more applaud from the crowd.
Retreat with tanks while simultaneously hold positioning to land on a few extra shots to other units = awesome to watch because of the amount of focus requires.
Overall speaking, BW pans out better than SC2 because of the newly introduced unit clumping, the fact that units can't hold any substantial space in SC2, and dearth of high ground advantage so you'll end up losing more map presence. That being said in BW, if you lose a battle, you'll still manage a huge portion of ground control, you cannot say that for SC2. In SC2, the splash dmg are less significant so people aren't afraid to engage and while knowing this, most people won't even bother setting up stronghold as they aren't as efficacious as to take up the offensive.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
One's more difficult, the other is less.
More difficulty to pull off = more respect given = more applaud from the crowd.
Retreat with tanks while simultaneously hold positioning to land on a few extra shots to other units = awesome to watch because of the amount of focus requires.
Overall speaking, BW pans out better than SC2 because of the newly introduced unit clumping, the fact that units can't hold any substantial space in SC2, and dearth of high ground advantage so you'll end up losing more map presence. That being said in BW, if you lose a battle, you'll still manage a huge portion of ground control, you cannot say that for SC2. In SC2, the splash dmg are less significant so people aren't afraid to engage and while knowing this, most people won't even bother setting up stronghold as they aren't as efficacious as to take up the offensive.
honestly it all comes down on that question I asked early: would you still be interested in BW if it required 300 apm to do a simple movement and would you be shocked to see a pro moving his harvesters and able to attack? And maybe a Pro with 1000 APM was able to do stutterstep micro and that would be all there is to the game. just because it is more difficult doesn't mean it is more interesting for the speculator, especially for the viewers who have little experience of it. I would give the guy more respect but certainly it just feels like the game isn't done right to me.
I was watching a tournament in HK, hardly anyone knows what is going on but at least some would say wow that is some nice aggression from 2 sides or wow that's a lot of units. But even if sc2 was only played with mouse only, it wouldn't make the crowd go louder because unless the people know how hard it is, they just won't be able to appreciate the moves more.
I would take it a bit off topic to compare two MOBA games that I play. A lot of people say League of Legend gameplay is easier than dota because it doesn't have the turning rate, creep denying, unit blocking etc. But the game is spot on with the core mechanics: knowing where your champion stands, when to use what on who, when to get a bit more aggressive, when to back off, what items to get in what order. I am hearing a lot more cheer for LoL engagements than Dota2 just because it is simple and clear for the crowd to get what's going on and yet the player can stand out from the bad ones by all those things LoL had it right. Those mechanical challenging things, especially blocking isn't all that impressive to look at other than a few games where it becomes significant such as blocking to save/ assist a kill.
I might get hated a lot for saying this: BW is an awesome game but it doesn't suit well to the current gamer base. If BW is released today, it won't even get close to where SC2 is right now, being quite successful internationally, even when facing off against League. The amount of time needed to get to anywhere as normal player is way too high. Players will be turned off by the controls and mechanics Hell, I know A TONNES of people in HK thinks SC2 is fricking hard already, even though they were quite into WC3 The only thing that SC2 is lacking is more interesting unit interaction and more units like marines which can really differentiate good and bad player.
and for those who say, but SC2 isn't competing against League, different game. Except this isn't all that true, netcafe serves like the sport ground for school. If LoL has 20hours a day, the remaining 4hours is SC2. Which would the school pay more focus on? I remember when my boarding house won a competition in Badminton, no one cares. They cheered for football even when we were last place only because football is more popular. Team shirt? Football team had it. who would want to play badminton if all the focus is on football? Comm interview also said similar problem where League player is treated way better than SC2 players in China (mostly because it isn't as popular) And if BW is SC2 at this position, can you imagine how bad it would be? Don't forget there won't be a vivid pro scene like what we had in KR for BW back then. The game might not even be taken seriously
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
Great comment going unnoticed. Thanks, sums up what I've been thinking for a long time : SC2 is too easy to be truely interesting.
Exactly. That's why so many of the BW greats have been getting smashed. Because it's too easy.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
The highest factor that differentiates pros in SC2 is decision making. Sure mechanics aren't perfected, but mostly everyone is equal on those. There are a couple of outliers like Bomber's macro used to be or more recently Innovation but those aren't enough of a factor to make a big difference in player skill just because of how SC2 works.
If you think flash cant make it in lol, you are bronce or silver(in lol) He could single handly carry anyone in LoL, and pick either MID or TOP(most 1v1 lane in the game) and just outplay anyone. He could be the Faker of top lane or defeat faker mid. Remember that LoL is not only a team game, you need to win your lane + be careful not to get ganked + control the enemy skills + control the enemy wards. So as far as we know flash can do all those except for Team play(but he might be super good at this and shut everyone )
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
dude i'm better then you at everything in life. so i know for a fact flash is. especially games. don't question him. he said he is NOT good at lol learn to read. and the skill for that game is pretty much 0 you ass. there's not endless strategies to that game. just like any other game LoL is mapped out completely. flash could literally master it in a matter of days. starcraft play takes years to develop. speed and decision making is more beneficial in sc than any other game because of the capacity for skill. the capacity to press 5 buttons and hide in a bush until some dumb noob like you moves too far outa position and gets jumped by a button spammer. get a clue kid. that game is losing popularity so quick because its way too basic. and has very low entertainment quality. no 2 buttom spam moba noob who obviously doesn't even know their own game could ever possibly wrap their head around the skill and dedication it takes to be solid at rts.
EPT
So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle 
