Always enjoy hearing the thoughts of Flash.

Forum Index > SC2 General |
cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
Always enjoy hearing the thoughts of Flash. ![]() | ||
Thorin
601 Posts
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1. What's hilarious is that you've created a false equivalency between champions and races. 99.99% of pro gamers can only play one race at a pro level, while in LoL many pro gamers can play 5 or more champions. | ||
Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
| ||
Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
| ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames. Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing. | ||
mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On August 20 2013 11:17 TheEmulator wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2013 11:15 adMachine wrote: On August 20 2013 10:09 Sajaki wrote: On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something. From this FPVOD, does anyone have any idea? @5:10min probably gives the best view for it. I dont think so, he's using 0. He just uses 2 and 3 for each CC as well so he doesn't press 0 often. 6:40 and on is pretty clear imo. Pretty sure Flash uses 1-army, 2-army 3-CC 4-barracks 5-Factory and 6- Starport and 0 for both CC's and F2 -F4 for base cameras :-) iirc you are dead on about that. Is 3 all CC, like 0, or just his first CC? | ||
Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
On August 20 2013 21:05 Big J wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames. Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing. I know, but i mean for those times you face the same person time and time over again, and i had always sucked at PvP. | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2013 23:12 Godwrath wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2013 21:05 Big J wrote: On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames. Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing. I know, but i mean for those times you face the same person time and time over again, and i had always sucked at PvP. oh yeah. I have never even tried to learn that matchup. Though in HotS now its really good, but in WoL I would just always leave it or proxy 2gate. | ||
nath
United States1788 Posts
but i did like orc vs orc in war3...so i guess something is wrong with me. | ||
adMachine
Australia54 Posts
On August 20 2013 22:50 mau5mat wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2013 11:17 TheEmulator wrote: On August 20 2013 11:15 adMachine wrote: On August 20 2013 10:09 Sajaki wrote: On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something. From this FPVOD, does anyone have any idea? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAo3QwnPruc&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLmHhGKzRGhKQXAK04jH8CwaM8cb9QQSIf @5:10min probably gives the best view for it. I dont think so, he's using 0. He just uses 2 and 3 for each CC as well so he doesn't press 0 often. 6:40 and on is pretty clear imo. Pretty sure Flash uses 1-army, 2-army 3-CC 4-barracks 5-Factory and 6- Starport and 0 for both CC's and F2 -F4 for base cameras :-) iirc you are dead on about that. Is 3 all CC, like 0, or just his first CC? 3 is just his first CC | ||
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions. so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players. in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame. exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected. but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines. something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game. nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore). the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting. edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end. ![]() | ||
Graphix
United States208 Posts
| ||
invisible.terran
United States280 Posts
On August 23 2013 17:04 Black Gun wrote: + Show Spoiler + well, i think the issue is the disturbed balance between being active and being defensive in sc2. in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions. so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players. in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame. exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected. but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines. something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game. nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore). the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting. edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end. ![]() I like your analysis for the differences between BW and SC2. Innovation, Soulkey and Flash are actually all the same generation however. Innovation is only 1 year younger than Flash, and Soulkey is 1 year older than Flash (just checked it, suprised me as well); so you can't justify their dominance with their young age. | ||
Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On August 23 2013 18:34 invisible.terran wrote: Show nested quote + On August 23 2013 17:04 Black Gun wrote: + Show Spoiler + well, i think the issue is the disturbed balance between being active and being defensive in sc2. in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions. so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players. in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame. exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected. but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines. something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game. nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore). the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting. edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end. ![]() I like your analysis for the differences between BW and SC2. Innovation, Soulkey and Flash are actually all the same generation however. Innovation is only 1 year younger than Flash, and Soulkey is 1 year older than Flash (just checked it, suprised me as well); so you can't justify their dominance with their young age. flash is an exception to the usual age trends because he had his breakthrough as a progamer at an unusually young age. this means that he has spent more time as a fulltime progamer with all the associated mental pressure and sacrificial lifestyle than most other pros of his age. therefore, i think he is closer to being burnt out or even retiring than his age would suggest. in particular, i believe that having to carry his team on his own for all those years really took a toll on him. and as we could see in the proleague playoffs, KTRolster rather being KTFlash did not change between bw and sc2. ![]() | ||
faderedguy
Indonesia58 Posts
| ||
Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
| ||
Havik_
United States5585 Posts
| ||
BlackPride
United States186 Posts
| ||
Die4Ever
United States17588 Posts
| ||
MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On August 31 2013 04:44 Havik_ wrote: I lol'd at the girlfriend part. He's friggin Flash, getting a GF is no problem. Getting a girlfriend is no problem, keeping one when you're training 12 or more hours a day is probably a completely different story. ;p On August 31 2013 04:44 Havik_ wrote: What got me was him thinking about going to Protoss. If he felt that strongly about it, maybe he should have made the switch. idk. A lot of pros feel that they would be cheating their fans if they switch races, so even though it might suit their style more they'd rather keep playing the same race. I also think this mentality is a hindrance but at the end of the day it's their choice to make. :s | ||
| ||
![]() StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 League of Legends Counter-Strike Heroes of the Storm Other Games Organizations StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War
StarCraft 2 • practicex StarCraft: Brood War![]() • v1n1z1o ![]() • AfreecaTV YouTube • intothetv ![]() • Kozan • IndyKCrew ![]() • LaughNgamezSOOP • Laughngamez YouTube • Migwel ![]() • sooper7s League of Legends |
Sparkling Tuna Cup
WardiTV Invitational
Spirit vs SHIN
Clem vs SKillous
herO vs TBD
TBD vs GuMiho
AI Arena 2025 Tournament
Replay Cast
Clem vs Zoun
Wardi Open
Monday Night Weeklies
PiGosaur Monday
Replay Cast
SOOP
SKillous vs Spirit
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
[ Show More ] The PondCast
Replay Cast
Korean StarCraft League
[BSL 2025] Weekly
|
|