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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Page 17 |
On August 16 2013 15:00 KuKri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 14:49 Zenbrez wrote:On August 16 2013 14:36 Za7oX wrote:On August 16 2013 14:30 Havik_ wrote:
Total Biscuit is still involved, the team isn't dead yet as far as I can tell, what's the big deal? Maybe she just doesn't want to deal with all the nonsense of running the team? But why did it have to turn into a drama like this @_@ Ask Take.how does leaving help??? How does not having to deal with a massive amount of responsibility not going to help? I'm not going to pretend I know half of what goes into it, but neither do you. But I do know it's a lot can be quite draining. I don't get it... I only see TB and Genna make blogs and audio records about how bad of a person Take is, revealing parts of what was supposed to be private communication. Why do you hold Take responsible for turning this into a drama? He didn't make anything about this public, did he? Again, what did I miss?
Read the posts. Until you do don't talk.
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so Genna left cause esports is more work than she could handle. I hope her health is not in bad condition.
Good luck.
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On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson.
Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom?
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On August 16 2013 15:21 GwSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson. Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom?
HSC...Acer Team Leauge...Acer Deal...big Community Web Site...Need for Seat...hmmm?
i terms of building something up from nothing...i think Take is one of the most accomplished persons.
Cant believe how much work he puts into this...and still is casting, doing interviews and actually plays HOTS in Masters.
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On August 16 2013 15:22 cutler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:21 GwSC wrote:On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson. Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom? HSC...Acer Team Leauge...Acer Deal...big Community Web Site...Need for Seat...hmmm?
I'm not going to bother responing with a list of things TB is involved with and has built because while I promise it is just as long, it is pointless. My point is that he doesn't need any lessons in building anything.
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On August 16 2013 15:22 cutler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:21 GwSC wrote:On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson. Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom? HSC...Acer Team Leauge...Acer Deal...big Community Web Site...Need for Seat...hmmm? i terms of building something up from nothing...i think Take is one of the most accomplished persons. Cant believe how much work he puts into this...and still is casting, doing interviews and actually plays HOTS in Masters.
SHOUTcraft, team founder and sponsor, partnered with Acer in GSTL, arguably the most successful general-gaming personality today, YouTube channel with more than a million subscribers, casts a million events - including ATC. So yeah. I mean, it's not like you're making sense.
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On August 16 2013 15:28 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:22 cutler wrote:On August 16 2013 15:21 GwSC wrote:On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson. Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom? HSC...Acer Team Leauge...Acer Deal...big Community Web Site...Need for Seat...hmmm? i terms of building something up from nothing...i think Take is one of the most accomplished persons. Cant believe how much work he puts into this...and still is casting, doing interviews and actually plays HOTS in Masters. SHOUTcraft, team founder and sponsor, partnered with Acer in GSTL, arguably the most successful general-gaming personality today, YouTube channel with more than a million subscribers, casts a million events - including ATC. So yeah. I mean, it's not like you're making sense.
It's not an epeen popularity contest, keep this crap out of discussions both of you, please. What's relevant is what's happening now.
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So in short,
Due to misunderstanding, where Genna was not included in the mass email which contained information, Axiom wasn't informed about traveling expenses and how they were supposed to be handled. They did receive the details, but it was on way too short notice for them to collect funds neccessary. TakeTV did try to correct this but there was only so much they can do financially, considering that they have to also host the event and pay part of the travel and living expenses for the other teams aswell. Therefore Axiom decided not to attend the event.
Genna makes a blogpost explaining their reason for pulling back and uses private chat logs and emails to provide some facts and to clear up some misunderstandings. Take doesn't like private logs being posted like that and messages Genna about that and she goes and posts these messages aswell for the public eye to see.
And now to my opinion. TakeTV made a mistake which caused Axiom to be unable to participate in offline finals of ATC. They attempted to correct their mistake was it wasn't enough and and it was too late to help Axiom. While making the blogpost, Genna should have asked Take first if it was ok to post those private logs on the internet. While I'm pretty sure there's nothing preventing her from doing that, it would have been an act of good manner to ask Take's opinion first if it was ok to post those logs.
Well, this was for sure really roundabout reply, but just wanted to sum up the whole situation as we know it and give some of my thoughts on it.
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you dont reveal private conversations.
on a side note, writing "fuck take" 20 times on the internet is about what i expect nowerdays from tb.
edit :
also - while takes "threat" might not be very tactful,how can you not understand that he is upset?
his sponsor money is on the line,which he is living from
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I don't know how to manage a team nor do I know how to manage a team league, but one thing I know is that this incident was unprofessional managed by both party's involved. Without knowing all details but you should never post private chat and Denise response was also stupid. If knew already that gena posts private chat and still calls her out.
This is for sure not good for anyone involved.
I like both party's and will not stop to support both of them.
Edit: Damn Typos. Note to myself: Never write on Smartphone while walking
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On August 16 2013 15:28 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:22 cutler wrote:On August 16 2013 15:21 GwSC wrote:On August 16 2013 15:10 cutler wrote:
Throwing such blog posts, casts, tweets etc at Take is very disrespectful. Always thought that TB has good intentions...well...my fault. In terms of building something up...he should take a lesson. Take a lesson in building something up? You do realize who you're talking about right? The guy who built a hugely successful youtube channel and founded Axiom? HSC...Acer Team Leauge...Acer Deal...big Community Web Site...Need for Seat...hmmm? i terms of building something up from nothing...i think Take is one of the most accomplished persons. Cant believe how much work he puts into this...and still is casting, doing interviews and actually plays HOTS in Masters. SHOUTcraft, team founder and sponsor, partnered with Acer in GSTL, arguably the most successful general-gaming personality today, YouTube channel with more than a million subscribers, casts a million events - including ATC. So yeah. I mean, it's not like you're making sense.
Guys, wtf is this? They're both great entrepreneurs and important persons for Starcraft 2 ... stop that stupid comparision. I like TB but I think he goes too far with this one. Genna published some critical conversations in her blog; like Acer not giving out more money for travel expenses. Not for TL as well it seems. And I think this really CAN be bad for the next ATC season. Just imagine Acer lost trust in TaKe's management and pulls out of ATC, which could totally be happening ... And all that just because Genna wants to be transparent with her management. Sadly this just does not always work out.
TaKe actually did not say he WILL legally pursue the action, but I can understand him saying he hopes he has a legal basis to forbid releasing internal conversations. Just in case u know ...
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On August 16 2013 15:06 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 15:00 KuKri wrote:On August 16 2013 14:49 Zenbrez wrote:On August 16 2013 14:36 Za7oX wrote:On August 16 2013 14:30 Havik_ wrote:
Total Biscuit is still involved, the team isn't dead yet as far as I can tell, what's the big deal? Maybe she just doesn't want to deal with all the nonsense of running the team? But why did it have to turn into a drama like this @_@ Ask Take.how does leaving help??? How does not having to deal with a massive amount of responsibility not going to help? I'm not going to pretend I know half of what goes into it, but neither do you. But I do know it's a lot can be quite draining. I don't get it... I only see TB and Genna make blogs and audio records about how bad of a person Take is, revealing parts of what was supposed to be private communication. Why do you hold Take responsible for turning this into a drama? He didn't make anything about this public, did he? Again, what did I miss? Read the posts. Until you do don't talk.
Done. I dont like Take but I also cant see how he is responsible for this drama. Blaming others for mistakes is a very bad habit.
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i've liked TB for a few years now (partly because im a brit) but in the recent months i've realised how incredibly petulant he appears. his tweets are regularly ranting and moaning and have become less interesting.
i certainly dont know the whole story, but his reaction seems unproffessional. its dissapointing to hear. i think hes going to start to lose alot of fans if he continues
as for the above posts of "genna is under alot of stress", yes, she probably is. i dont think this warrants her actions however (again i dont know the whole story). as a doctor working with people who are also clinically depressed, shes not the only one.... its very common and is often a result of huge traumas. i just get a little pissed off when people use 'depression' or 'stressed out' as reasons for actions. im in no way attacking Genna here, just the people justifying actions with 'shes stressed out'
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On August 16 2013 15:42 Lithian wrote:
So in short,
Due to misunderstanding, where Genna was not included in the mass email which contained information, Axiom wasn't informed about traveling expenses and how they were supposed to be handled. They did receive the details, but it was on way too short notice for them to collect funds neccessary. TakeTV did try to correct this but there was only so much they can do financially, considering that they have to also host the event and pay part of the travel and living expenses for the other teams aswell. Therefore Axiom decided not to attend the event.
Genna makes a blogpost explaining their reason for pulling back and uses private chat logs and emails to provide some facts and to clear up some misunderstandings. Take doesn't like private logs being posted like that and messages Genna about that and she goes and posts these messages aswell for the public eye to see.
And now to my opinion. TakeTV made a mistake which caused Axiom to be unable to participate in offline finals of ATC. They attempted to correct their mistake was it wasn't enough and and it was too late to help Axiom. While making the blogpost, Genna should have asked Take first if it was ok to post those private logs on the internet. While I'm pretty sure there's nothing preventing her from doing that, it would have been an act of good manner to ask Take's opinion first if it was ok to post those logs.
Well, this was for sure really roundabout reply, but just wanted to sum up the whole situation as we know it and give some of my thoughts on it.
I agree... it truly is unfortunate that Genna felt the need to retire, and I definitely empathize with her depression problems. However, blaming Take (especially comments like "fuck Take") is not the correct answer!
I mean, was Take even aware of Genna's depression? It's not like he was trying to give her stress... Take was probably stressed too. Managing events is not an easy task, and when one of your top 4 teams suddenly cannot attend, I bet he was thrown in a hectic situation. When he saw Genna post private conversations (which he interpreted as an attempt to blame Take for the situation), Take understandably reacted with anger.
Take talked about legal action, but did he actually take legal action? No, and it would be surprising if he does.
I can definitely empathize with both parties here, and we really shouldn't try to point the blame finger. Just because TotalBiscuit said "fuck Take" does not mean we should hate Take... and it also does not mean we should think of TotalBiscuit as an immature idiot.
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Wow, that really sucks. But hey, at least, she's not like Slayers Jessica who stuck around and made the slight drama into a big one. 
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Genna was one of my favorites to meet at events. TB will do great as Axiom's Manager, but Genna will be sorely missed. Axiom is one of the coolest stories in eSports IMO.
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this whole situation is pretty messed up. while i am really happy that there are people like genna putting a lot of effort into managing teams, i am all but fine with the way the whole story regarding the offline finals has been laid out.
it is, in fact, not legitmate (neither by moral nor juridical standards) to just openly publish private logs and e-mails. considering the unsatisfactory outcome, by publishing private information one has to anticipate at least some sort of backlash (why not simply ask whether it is fine to release them?) - quite likely an emotionally driven one.
it's not for me to say whether take actually considered taking legal measures at any point in time (which would be going over the top, imo) but my guess would be that he was genuinely upset about the post.
in the end the whole thing comes down to just one point: can one expect traveling expenses to be paid or not. for me, an invitation does not directly imply ANYTHING whatsoever (this goes for pretty much any field outside of e-sports). and even if paid flights were some kind of unwritten law, why would one not simply ask for clarification at any point down the road (better safe than sorry)? given traveling expenses obviously are a supercritical part in planning, why not approach that issue without making any assumptions, timely sorting out any misconceptions there might be?
bottom line:
from the logs, neither ATC nor TakeTV deserve any hate (posts like "fuck you dennis" are totally inappropriate). i do not see any ill will in the doing of anybody during the planning. the whole leaving axiom part should not be all so firmly tied to JUST that one (singular) incident. the logs should be taken down. things can get super-stressful, that's what naturally comes with working with other people. mostly, it is a pain for all parties involved - i feel like that particular insight has not really been taken into consideration all that much.
edit:
"protect the family because that's what a regular person does" - well yes, that's what you would expect, but sure instinct was called for. de-escalation would have been the key - for an outside person, objectively speaking, the sole reason for ANYBODY to be legitimately upset (note: it is of course perfectly reasonable to be unhappy about how the planning went) about was the public posting of private logs. the whole legal measures thing should have been discussed in private - that's what reasonable persons do...
edit2:
still, all the best to genna though!
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On August 16 2013 15:00 KuKri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 14:49 Zenbrez wrote:On August 16 2013 14:36 Za7oX wrote:On August 16 2013 14:30 Havik_ wrote:
Total Biscuit is still involved, the team isn't dead yet as far as I can tell, what's the big deal? Maybe she just doesn't want to deal with all the nonsense of running the team? But why did it have to turn into a drama like this @_@ Ask Take.how does leaving help??? How does not having to deal with a massive amount of responsibility not going to help? I'm not going to pretend I know half of what goes into it, but neither do you. But I do know it's a lot can be quite draining. I don't get it... I only see TB and Genna make blogs and audio records about how bad of a person Take is, revealing parts of what was supposed to be private communication. Why do you hold Take responsible for turning this into a drama? He didn't make anything about this public, did he? Again, what did I miss?
Him threatening legal action.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
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I think Take is doing a good job. I don't think he did anything wrong. People should not criticise Take but Genna for the way she handeld things
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EPT
