The list of featured streamers on our right side bar is always a work in progress. It is meant to reflect those who are currently noteworthy in the community, be it through pure skill or personality or a special quality that makes them the source of attention and praise.
We would like to start moving the list towards something that updates quickly and has players moving in and out of our list more fluidly. To that effect, we'll be making it easier and more clear how to get on the list. Additionally, we'll be removing people more aggressively and at set intervals as well. The most noticeable change here is that now we will add anyone currently in the WCS system to the featured list, which includes all of the Challenger League players.
Ways To Qualify For A Feature:
Be in any region's WCS system. This includes Premier and Challenger Leagues.
Have an appearance in the Round of 16 of any premier tournaments as defined by Liquipedia.
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
In addition we'll be removing people more regularly. Following each season's WCS qualifiers we will go through and remove from the featured list any players that no longer meet the above requirements and have fewer than 300 average viewers on their stream (though this exact number is subject to change with more research). This means that while in WCS any player will remain featured but it is possible to drop off the list should they be eliminated from Challenger League. For the number reporting we will be using a tool that tracks viewer counts while the stream is live on TeamLiquid, which all streamers will have access to seeing in the near future - it is very similar to the twitch dashboard but on some occasions will report slightly different averages.
What This Means For Players
For those of you looking to become featured, it will be easier to get on the list but once there you will need to work on your stream. The featured list is very competitive these days and being included does not guarantee viewers as it did in 2010 (despite popular opinion often thinking otherwise). Viewers have a lot of options available to them, and we have found that a feature without a strong existing fanbase sometimes doesn't help at all - which is why we sometimes appear slow to add new talent. If you're an up and comer who made it into WCS or had a deep DH run, you should prepare for the future by building your stream fanbase to ensure you remain on the list. Do it by having a good stream, interacting with your viewers, and participating in the community in what ways you can - such as doing interviews or being on the variety of talk shows that exist.
For the Other Notable Streams category it will function the same as before, a way to highlight a small handful of people who have visibility in the community through things like casting large LAN events and hosting shows or events.
Overall this should make our sidebar more accurate as to who is currently notable and hopefully makes our criteria a little more clear to the community.
I had my qualms of the new system that was in place, but as it expanded and moved along; I ended up being quite satisfied. Lately, my biggest complaint has been how slow things have been changing. Players like Protech were still featured despite being irrelevant for months (even a year?). I like this will be more in-line with WCS without sacrificing the merits of achievements in non-WCS events (DH/MLG).
you can go ahead and feature me btw, I don't mind.
Ya, it makes sense. No real point having people featured who doesn't seem to do anything or that has a very low following. Might as well cut off some of the none popular streams in the feature section. Great to see that Featured streams and normal streams finally means something, it certainly didn't seem to matter before.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
I didn't intend for this to be a thread where you suggest people you want featured, specifically because all three of those cases are covered in the text that explains our criteria.
I feel pretty good about our Dota featured list so that will remain mostly as is. SC2 has a much higher turnover rate for players so having a system that easily deals with people going in and out is a lot more necessary.
I like this new system. I think it would also be cool if you get featured if you were one of the people in the top 50 streamers from the other thread. That is probably redundant though as all those people are most likely already featured.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
Please not avilo...
Not to player bash, but that player has had more problems on TL.net, SotG, etc. etc. than almost anyone else. He's a master at pissing people off and getting into ragefests.
On July 07 2013 08:43 Bashnek wrote: Hopefully you guys make the "Favourite streams" feature more prominent with this too.
Really have to agree with this fellow. Is there any way to make this option more visible?
I probably watched streams for a whole year before I knew about this option; it would have saved me sooooo much time when i had to check if some of the non-featured-but-very-enjoyable streams were on or not.
Other than that I appreciate the fluidity and look forward to discovering new streams.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
Please not avilo...
Not to player bash, but that player has had more problems on TL.net, SotG, etc. etc. than almost anyone else. He's a master at pissing people off and getting into ragefests.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think balance whining or pissing people off should matter in whether someone is a featured streamer. Featured streams isn't meant to reward or punish members of the community for being well-mannered. It's supposed to highlight members of the community that are either very skilled or otherwise influential with their stream. For instance, defeaturing IdrA after any of his million instances of pissing people off and balance whining would have been atrocious.
Banning people on TL.net, on the other hand, is a perfectly appropriate response to someone behaving badly on TL.net. I have no idea if or how often avilo has been banned, but IdrA has been banned plenty of times.
On July 07 2013 08:43 Bashnek wrote: Hopefully you guys make the "Favourite streams" feature more prominent with this too.
Really have to agree with this fellow. Is there any way to make this option more visible?
I probably watched streams for a whole year before I knew about this option; it would have saved me sooooo much time when i had to check if some of the non-featured-but-very-enjoyable streams were on or not.
Other than that I appreciate the fluidity and look forward to discovering new streams.
An easy solution would be to have the "Favorites" section constantly visible on the sidebar even if a user doesn't have any Favorite Streams or Favorite Streams that are live.
Or have a little section at the end that says "Add Favorites" below the "Show X non-featured" bracket.
On July 07 2013 08:30 Torte de Lini wrote: yes, thank you.
I had my qualms of the new system that was in place, but as it expanded and moved along; I ended up being quite satisfied. Lately, my biggest complaint has been how slow things have been changing. Players like Protech were still featured despite being irrelevant for months (even a year?). I like this will be more in-line with WCS without sacrificing the merits of achievements in non-WCS events (DH/MLG).
you can go ahead and feature me btw, I don't mind.
Not to be a dick, but when was ProTech ever relevant? All I remember is trying to watch his stream some 2 years ago and it was only 2v2s and him raging in arcade... Like, did the guy ever try to compete in this game or? ~_~
Overall good news! Hopefully Hui will finally get featured, as well as some of the European casting streams!
Avilo is a fringe figure in the community, IdrA is well known and at it's center.
His fanbase is in it's own corner, (intentionally or unintentionally) he's constantly polluting the featured thread with 1 post accounts, and he's often a disruption to the moderator team. There's not a lot of incentive for teamliquid to feature him.
On the other hand, he has a lot of friction with the pillars of the community, a lot of visible friction that casts him as delusional, angry and unreasonable. Would it really be worthwhile for teamliquid to introduce it's site traffic to such a person?
Team Liquid is an old boy's club. Although they try and be fair and provide a good experience/service to all of it's members and the community (and they do), at the end of the day they're going to make decisions between themselves, and if Incontrol says that Avilo is trash or the moderator team protests after banning him so many times for disruption, they're going to weigh those opinions more heavily than Avilo's moderator team.
Great changes. This will shake some people who really aren't worth watching anymore, so they will have to still have good streams to get it. I hope this encourages good players who have a result in WCS to stream as well.
Ms.Spyte should probably get featured soon then. She consistantly has a high viewer count. I don't watch her stream but I always see her on the top streamers thread every month
Personally I think Avilo is a smart Terran, who does have valid and reasonable points behind his emotions. However how he presents his opinions is quite frankly annoying.
If people really want Avilo on the featured list, I hope he moves up the sidebar and advances his career through his own merit and achievements, rather than his personality because I don't see it working out.
ProTech ... this guy has nothing . no results no viwers . he rages and insults while streaming . do he pay you guys to feature him ? or what ? like streaming 2v2 with no partner most of times is not something "interesting or competitive" and he rushes most of games aswel i dont understand .. is not even fun to watch this guy why is he featured ?
On July 07 2013 09:34 SoOJuuu wrote: well technically he is the only 2v2 streamer out there. that has some market-ish not everyone in sc2 is 1v1 uber competative
Doesn't have many viewers either, certainly not "an extraordinary amount of viewers". Which is why this is so strange. :/
Sounds very fair to me. Gives fresh new talent a chance to build up a fanbase and break into the scene while forcing the old school streamers to step up their game.
My "opinions" and posts should have nothing to do with my stream being featured. This was my max concurrents from the entire last month, which was many times over 400+ viewers:
There's a few featured streams that cannot match that even.
That is objectivity, it's the numbers. I have a fanbase, as well as the skill, as i regularly play other featured streamers and have beaten them before.
It also meets:
On July 07 2013 08:27 Heyoka wrote: Ways To Qualify For A Feature:
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
I have spoken to TL many times about being featured. They regularly feature people with less viewers than myself...so what do i have to do to be featured here? This is a brick wall for me and it has been for quite a while. There literally is only 1 qualifiers every 6-8 months for WCS, and if you do not get through a 512 man bracket with PROGAMER koreans...
example: earlier today beat a chinese pro 2-1 in the qualifier bracket, then lost 1-2 to Golden (progamer korean who is paid and probably is able to play 8+ hrs per day).
I would like some objectivity here from TL - my stream has had the numbers for a while (it did over 2 years ago when i originally was requesting to get featured).
I shouldn't have to join EG or TL to get featured here, as that seems to be one of the few ways -_- It's quite frustrating and depressing that even when I hit high viewer counts it's not objectively looked at. I'm 25, i work part time, i am trying to do SC2 full time and being featured here is literally one of the only road blocks to allowing me to do this full time.
Really appreciate the transparency since the old system was very shadowed. InCa for instance left for a year and came back to still have his stream featured. Hope the new system works as well as it appears that it will.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Good to know. I will keep working on getting my stream further up BOTH top 50 streamer lists...
On July 07 2013 08:42 Heyoka wrote: I feel pretty good about our Dota featured list so that will remain mostly as is. SC2 has a much higher turnover rate for players so having a system that easily deals with people going in and out is a lot more necessary.
needs fata featured tho :> i dont think he registered his stream here yet tho :D
On July 07 2013 10:18 Thor.Rush wrote: Featuring anyone from challenger league? dont agree with that.
why not? With the WCS system (and how the scene works in general) if you aren't in WCS (or other major tournaments) you aren't going to get huge, or even sufficiently popular to continue this as a career. This allows anyone who made it through the qualifiers a huge chance at being somebody. What is there not to like about opportunity?
I'm just wondering how often people who got featured through non WCS tournys get culled from the list. You mentioned you do it after every WCS qualifier, but I'm sure there are cases where the WCS qualifiers are right after a premier tourny, so if you reach Ro16 in say, Dreamhack Valencia, and then the WCS qualifiers end next week but you drop out, do you lose feature status so quickly?
Awesome! I hope this change will get more lower level Koreans in eSF teams to stream more consistently. I wish there will be an era when I can log on and find a Korean Terran streaming 90% of the time.
thanks for the update on the situation Heyoka, I hope that players do pay attention to your advice to beef up the production on their streams. I always hated tuning into a stream of a player that i liked, or a player on a team that i liked, only to find that their stream had barely any production support (no commentary/interaction, no music etc).
On July 07 2013 11:18 yyfpulls wrote: I think people like orb and Destiny should be defeatured. They are an embarrassment and have nothing to do with sc2 anymore.
Destiny choose to go into LoL. While orb was ran out by the community. While I agree that they shouldn't be featured on TL anymore, I strongly disagree that orb is an embarrassment. Orb kept ESV Korean Weekly alive as long as possible practically by himself. His casting was always well informed, relevant to the matches, and he had unparallelled game knowledge. He was pragmatic about the matches and the match-ups, while that maybe boring to many casual players/viewers it was very helpful in developing game sense for more hardcore fans. Without Orb, I strongly doubt Taeja would've been signed by Liquid.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Good to know. I will keep working on getting my stream further up BOTH top 50 streamer lists...
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Good to know. I will keep working on getting my stream further up BOTH top 50 streamer lists...
Oh no, I really hope KawaiiRice stays above 300 viewers, it'd be a shame to have his fall beneath and fall off the list, it's been up there for so long and one of my favorites!
On July 07 2013 12:51 GunPaladin wrote: Good restructuring, it always puzzled me how Protech got featured to begin with.
Protech is still featured as far as I know.
As per the new policy, he will probably still be featured because of the number of viewers he amassed before said policy was implemented, and he was featured.
I hope Protech stays featured. It's not like the 2v2 scene will ever attract an extraordinary number of viewers. He's currently the only featured 2v2 stream in Teamliquid and he puts in the most number of hours among all the Sc II streams. He deserves a spot in the featured list.
Yes this means I now have... the same chance as before of getting featured mwhaha. Glad to see you guys are going to be removing/adding users as you see fit rather then just letting people stay featured even when they stop playing and stuff ^_^
Alot of protech hate going on in here, not sure why, his stream is fun and entertaining, plenty of people streaming high level 1v1 abit of variety in the scene can be a good thing, If i didn't see his stream up i doubt I would still be watching Starcraft, cause Me and my buddies only play arranged 2v2 together, so don't be too quick to try to get him defeatured just cause his doing sth that's abit different to what you expect. Just go enjoy a 1v1 stream and stop hating.
avilo has a great informative stream if you filter some whine out, he really conveys his thoughts well towards people who dont have as good as game knowledge
I also play 2v2 and watch Protech specifically for playing 2v2. He's the #1 on the world at 2v2 and should stay featured. I'm puzzled by the amount of hate at 2v2 players, this games is more than 1v1. Plus he interacts with viewers and comments on 2v2 strategy. Like it was said previously, go enjoy a 1v1 stream and stop hating 2v2 players and viewers.
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
I hope this means someone like MsSpyte will be featured regularly. I really like these changes, though overdue, I'm glad it's being implemented to keep things relevant to who's who in sc2.
I think players who fall out of WCS should still be features until either the beginning or the conclusion of the next WCS season, considering that you cannot expect them to work on their stream and train for WCS at the same time. Otherwise, this is a good update.
Any chance you could look at separating tournament cast streams from player streams on the events section (or just stopping players appearing as tournament streams). It's not always obvious.
It generally feels very gimmicky US player weighted as things stand.
I like the new policy. It's indeed more generous and gives more opportunities to the players.
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
I would preferred to see a number on this for it to be more clear and objective. 500+? 600+? 1k+? Other than this, good update.
I was wondering, should the required user number be related to the language used in the stream? Obviously english is the to go language, yet there are some streams in german, french, russian... which do feature their native tongue. And to a specific audience (people not very fluid in english) this seems to be a good feature. However, due to the size of the country and the amount of people in the 14-30 year range, the viewer numbers will be influenced. I think that TL should consider this variable to ensure, that at least a couple of streams of each language (that are active of course) should be featured, even if they are slightly below what you would normally need. It's kind of like the quota for women in upper management, it is essential to "enforce" good things for more people to see the benefits. Also I think it could help grow regional esports szenes for smaller countries. Just an Idea to be less "elitist" and more open to a larger and younger audience.
Be in any region's WCS system. This includes Premier and Challenger Leagues.
Have an appearance in the Round of 16 of any premier tournaments as defined by Liquipedia.
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
In addition we'll be removing people more regularly. Following each season's WCS qualifiers we will go through and remove from the featured list any players that no longer meet the above requirements and have fewer than 300 average viewers on their stream (though this exact number is subject to change with more research). This means that while in WCS any player will remain featured but it is possible to drop off the list should they be eliminated from Challenger League. For the number reporting we will be using a tool that tracks viewer counts while the stream is live on TeamLiquid, which all streamers will have access to seeing in the near future - it is very similar to the twitch dashboard but on some occasions will report slightly different averages.
Be in any region's WCS system. This includes Premier and Challenger Leagues.
Have an appearance in the Round of 16 of any premier tournaments as defined by Liquipedia.
Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
In addition we'll be removing people more regularly. Following each season's WCS qualifiers we will go through and remove from the featured list any players that no longer meet the above requirements and have fewer than 300 average viewers on their stream (though this exact number is subject to change with more research). This means that while in WCS any player will remain featured but it is possible to drop off the list should they be eliminated from Challenger League. For the number reporting we will be using a tool that tracks viewer counts while the stream is live on TeamLiquid, which all streamers will have access to seeing in the near future - it is very similar to the twitch dashboard but on some occasions will report slightly different averages.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
Please not avilo...
Not to player bash, but that player has had more problems on TL.net, SotG, etc. etc. than almost anyone else. He's a master at pissing people off and getting into ragefests.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think balance whining or pissing people off should matter in whether someone is a featured streamer.
What about Liquid players? You add them always, right? I guess currently all Liquid players make that list on their on merit, but if, let's say Sheth comes back into active state, he'd be added?
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
definetly not, avilo is THE balance whiner alive
That's a dangerous territory to enter, as it is quite subjective. I guess nobody would disagree that avilo balance whines a LOT, but so does i.e. Idra. Where do you draw the line?
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
definetly not, avilo is THE balance whiner alive
That's a dangerous territory to enter, as it is quite subjective. I guess nobody would disagree that avilo balance whines a LOT, but so does i.e. Idra. Where do you draw the line?
Thumbs up on this, been waiting for someone to say something like this for a long time.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
definetly not, avilo is THE balance whiner alive
That's a dangerous territory to enter, as it is quite subjective. I guess nobody would disagree that avilo balance whines a LOT, but so does i.e. Idra. Where do you draw the line?
Yeah, I really don't think the featured streams section should be a method Team Liquid uses to reward or punish players for acting responsibly. It's just a list of streams that are significant in some way, either because that player has achieved some tournament results, or because their stream has pretty good content and a high viewer count. I get that avilo is unpopular, but that shouldn't matter for featured stream purposes. Defeaturing someone for balance whining or some other frowned-upon behavior is comparable to defeaturing Stephano because he has an alcohol problem. Doesn't matter if it's true, it's not relevant.
Not saying Stephano DOES have an alcohol problem, just needed an example.
And to be clear, I'm just disagreeing with some other people in this thread. As far as I can tell, TL is doing exactly what they should with the list, and this new policy should help some new and promising streamers make it up there, which is nice.
Edit:
On July 07 2013 20:42 murphs wrote: The desperation of avilo and his fanboys makes me cringe.
Sorry, what are you referring to? The person one page 1 who wanted him to be featured? Or me saying balance whining shouldn't be relevant for whether or not someone is a featured streamer? Not that it matters, but I don't think I could be considered an "avilo fanboy" by any stretch of the imagination. I think his comments regarding balance and/or game design tend to be overdramatic and he's usually wrong. I've never seen his stream, and don't know his viewer numbers, so I don't personally have any idea whether he should be featured. I hear he uses nukes a lot, so that's cool I guess.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
If she meets the criteria for being featured she should be featured. It doesn't really matter how a streamer gets their viewers.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
If she meets the criteria for being featured she should be featured. It doesn't really matter how a streamer gets their viewers.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
So given the new criteria does this mean Testie will be featured? I remember seeing him streaming HoN with over 1500 viewers every time I looked into unfeatured.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
Oh boy here we go again...
I am not saying that he is being sexist in this case, to be clear. I have never watched MsSpyte's stream and she may be really playing into the girl gamer thing. I am just pointing out that TL should consider everyone who has a high enough viewer count. Balance whiners and Girly gamers should all be treated equally under the featured streaming policy.
Edit: It is pretty clear that Scarlett has made her decision, however.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
You need to be clear when you stay stuff like that then. And I am with you that TL that maybe shouldn't feature a female player who always plays in a low cut top and her interaction is stream chat is super creepy(those streamers are real). However, TL is about enjoying SC2 and Dota 2 at all levels. They have a professional team for both SC2 and Dota 2. But there is also a section of the community that plays the games for fun on the weekend. Some people like watching Grubby play 2v2s with his wife because its adorable. Sometimes it is nice just to watch someone fucking around and enjoying the game too.
There is no reason both audiences can't be served.
Besides if you start making exceptions to your own set of criteria to rule out some people, you'll end up making more exceptions and end up with no diversity whatsoever.
I hope Weedamins gets featured as well. He averages 300+ viewers, talks to his viewers and has the most fun sc2 stream out there (oh and has the best music, yes even better then TLO :D)
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
You need to be clear when you stay stuff like that then. And I am with you that TL that maybe shouldn't feature a female player who always plays in a low cut top and her interaction is stream chat is super creepy(those streamers are real). However, TL is about enjoying SC2 and Dota 2 at all levels. They have a professional team for both SC2 and Dota 2. But there is also a section of the community that plays the games for fun on the weekend. Some people like watching Grubby play 2v2s with his wife because its adorable. Sometimes it is nice just to watch someone fucking around and enjoying the game too.
There is no reason both audiences can't be served.
LOL I was actually considering making my argument based on her.
Its a tricky situation where you draw the line, I have nothing against Spyte but if she was featured I would feel it was not on her own merits. I guess that's why she is on the waiting list and not yet featured despite having more viewers than most.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
You need to be clear when you stay stuff like that then. And I am with you that TL that maybe shouldn't feature a female player who always plays in a low cut top and her interaction is stream chat is super creepy(those streamers are real). However, TL is about enjoying SC2 and Dota 2 at all levels. They have a professional team for both SC2 and Dota 2. But there is also a section of the community that plays the games for fun on the weekend. Some people like watching Grubby play 2v2s with his wife because its adorable. Sometimes it is nice just to watch someone fucking around and enjoying the game too.
There is no reason both audiences can't be served.
LOL I was actually considering making my argument based on her.
Its a tricky situation where you draw the line, I have nothing against Spyte but if she was featured I would feel it was not on her own merits. I guess that's why she is on the waiting list and not yet featured despite having more viewers than most.
What do you mean by "on her merits"? What counts as a merit here? If the only thing that makes you "deserve" to be featured is top-level play, then we should get rid of all the foreigner streams, because the only reason that they get more viewers than random mid-level Koreans is because of their race/nationality/language. Tournaments are meant to reward high-level players, and they should only care about that. Being good at streaming isn't about being good at the game - that's only one small component. It's also about being entertaining. And being entertaining relies on any number of things that aren't in your control. The entertainment industry is pretty much the only industry allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender/looks/race/etc. TL isn't trying to impose their idea of who people should like to watch. They are providing viewers a way to find the people that they do like to watch.
On July 07 2013 09:57 Plexa wrote: [quote]We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
You need to be clear when you stay stuff like that then. And I am with you that TL that maybe shouldn't feature a female player who always plays in a low cut top and her interaction is stream chat is super creepy(those streamers are real). However, TL is about enjoying SC2 and Dota 2 at all levels. They have a professional team for both SC2 and Dota 2. But there is also a section of the community that plays the games for fun on the weekend. Some people like watching Grubby play 2v2s with his wife because its adorable. Sometimes it is nice just to watch someone fucking around and enjoying the game too.
There is no reason both audiences can't be served.
LOL I was actually considering making my argument based on her.
Its a tricky situation where you draw the line, I have nothing against Spyte but if she was featured I would feel it was not on her own merits. I guess that's why she is on the waiting list and not yet featured despite having more viewers than most.
What do you mean by "on her merits"? What counts as a merit here? If the only thing that makes you "deserve" to be featured is top-level play, then we should get rid of all the foreigner streams, because the only reason that they get more viewers than random mid-level Koreans is because of their race/nationality/language. Tournaments are meant to reward high-level players, and they should only care about that. Being good at streaming isn't about being good at the game - that's only one small component. It's also about being entertaining. And being entertaining relies on any number of things that aren't in your control. The entertainment industry is pretty much the only industry allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender/looks/race/etc. TL isn't trying to impose their idea of who people should like to watch. They are providing viewers a way to find the people that they do like to watch.
Twitch is already giving people what they do want to watch, they are sorting streamers by viewer numbers and nothing else.
"What counts as a merit here"? That is the eternal question.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
If you're against people being featured by popularity rather than skill then just say that:/ Why do you have to bring up the whole girl vs boy issue in which case I'd argue that it's more of a deterrent given the massive amount of unfiltered misogyny in the online gaming communities
On July 07 2013 23:04 Bagi wrote: [quote] Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
You need to be clear when you stay stuff like that then. And I am with you that TL that maybe shouldn't feature a female player who always plays in a low cut top and her interaction is stream chat is super creepy(those streamers are real). However, TL is about enjoying SC2 and Dota 2 at all levels. They have a professional team for both SC2 and Dota 2. But there is also a section of the community that plays the games for fun on the weekend. Some people like watching Grubby play 2v2s with his wife because its adorable. Sometimes it is nice just to watch someone fucking around and enjoying the game too.
There is no reason both audiences can't be served.
LOL I was actually considering making my argument based on her.
Its a tricky situation where you draw the line, I have nothing against Spyte but if she was featured I would feel it was not on her own merits. I guess that's why she is on the waiting list and not yet featured despite having more viewers than most.
What do you mean by "on her merits"? What counts as a merit here? If the only thing that makes you "deserve" to be featured is top-level play, then we should get rid of all the foreigner streams, because the only reason that they get more viewers than random mid-level Koreans is because of their race/nationality/language. Tournaments are meant to reward high-level players, and they should only care about that. Being good at streaming isn't about being good at the game - that's only one small component. It's also about being entertaining. And being entertaining relies on any number of things that aren't in your control. The entertainment industry is pretty much the only industry allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender/looks/race/etc. TL isn't trying to impose their idea of who people should like to watch. They are providing viewers a way to find the people that they do like to watch.
Twitch is already giving people what they do want to watch, they are sorting streamers by viewer numbers and nothing else.
"What counts as a merit here"? That is the eternal question.
But not really one we need to answer here. Suffice to say not everyone makes their stream appealing by pure high-level play; lots of streamers get viewers by being entertaining, having a fun personality, and keeping the stream consistently exciting. Determining what exactly it is that makes those streams appealing would be difficult, but there's no need to, because you only need to know THAT they're appealing to determine if they should be featured. Someone being a girl doesn't stop them from being entertaining, having a fun personality, or keeping the stream consistently exciting. So I don't quite know what additional hurdle you want people to clear before getting featured.
Twitch also offers a way to search through current streams, yes. I don't quite know what you think it proves that another website offers a similar service, and bases that service on viewer numbers. Plenty of people still like to use the TL featured streams to find something to watch, as demonstrated by the fact that when a stream gets featured it jumps in viewer counts quite a bit.
If you take into account that there are going to be 10 koreans in the top 16 who don't bother streaming / aren't allowed to then another 6 top-tier players who are already popular / featured etc its kinda poop
top 32 is a better benchmark, top 16 breakthroughs are ALOT to ask for, top 32 is more do-able but still extremely difficult, allowing for amateur breakthroughs etc.
On July 07 2013 20:42 murphs wrote: The desperation of avilo and his fanboys makes me cringe.
its nauseating. everywhere you go hes recruiting people to sing his praises.
Firstly, this thread isn't about avilo or his haters coming to ignorantly dish more hate. Secondly, you're wrong, because avilo has plenty of fans who admire him. He doesn't have to recruit anyone.
That being said, I'm more than anxious to see these new rules implemented. It sounds fair to all and hopefully it will be. It opens the door for those people who should be featured - and have not - and should close the door on those who are featured based on past merits and have long since stopped trying.
On July 08 2013 01:10 Capped wrote: Top 16 in a major event seems a bit stingy imo.
If you take into account that there are going to be 10 koreans in the top 16 who don't bother streaming / aren't allowed to then another 6 top-tier players who are already popular / featured etc its kinda poop
top 32 is a better benchmark, top 16 breakthroughs are ALOT to ask for, top 32 is more do-able but still extremely difficult, allowing for amateur breakthroughs etc.
Either way. This is your house
While there is merit to your points, this is still very much an improvement over the previous system.
On July 08 2013 01:25 Rhaegal wrote: Is there a way to hid the "other notable streams"? Maximusblack is fine and all, but not really what I'm looking for when I check out TL sidebar.
You could just not click on him. I mean, its not really that big of a deal if he is under notable streamers. JP is there too.
On July 07 2013 20:42 murphs wrote: The desperation of avilo and his fanboys makes me cringe.
its nauseating. everywhere you go hes recruiting people to sing his praises.
I've never been much for interacting, but I felt like commenting on the one thing i DO see everywhere I go in the sc2 community: People getting on the bandwagon as soon as a player or personality is singled out as ok to pick on. Who you are doesn't seem to have as much to do with what you do as with being on the "right" side. I'm honestly getting so tired of this toxicity holding people down.
The established platforms and shows hold a lot of influence and the community is easily swayed. I seems like everyone goes to Reddit to get informed on whether Tasteless is considered a good caster this week or if it's ok to like Husky and then hit the forums and streams and bash accordingly. If you're not vetted by the right people, you're nobody and will go nowhere.
I'd personally like to have the entire selection and for people to make up their own minds as to what they like. While I'm not sure if the WCS requirement is the way to go, I'm glad TL is taking steps towards making the system more transparent.
On July 08 2013 01:10 Capped wrote: Top 16 in a major event seems a bit stingy imo.
If you take into account that there are going to be 10 koreans in the top 16 who don't bother streaming / aren't allowed to then another 6 top-tier players who are already popular / featured etc its kinda poop
top 32 is a better benchmark, top 16 breakthroughs are ALOT to ask for, top 32 is more do-able but still extremely difficult, allowing for amateur breakthroughs etc.
Either way. This is your house
While there is merit to your points, this is still very much an improvement over the previous system.
Wow, what's with all the hate for ProTech?! I really enjoy his stream. I would be very disappointed if he got taken off the featured list. I enjoy watching 2v2. I would argue he is one of the best 2v2 players out there. That's worth being featured.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
If you're against people being featured by popularity rather than skill then just say that:/ Why do you have to bring up the whole girl vs boy issue in which case I'd argue that it's more of a deterrent given the massive amount of unfiltered misogyny in the online gaming communities
I guess it's because the girl vs boy issue is why she is popular in the first place.
On July 07 2013 11:18 yyfpulls wrote: I think people like orb and Destiny should be defeatured. They are an embarrassment and have nothing to do with sc2 anymore.
Orb was probably the best analytical caster ever and besides, was just an intelligent person whose ramblings on stream were worth listening in contrast to many many other progamers.
These streams are just entertainment. People watch them for different reasons (skill, personality, support.. ). Having too rigid set of rules for featured list will only serve a portion of people visiting this site.
The featured streams list has the problem of directing a lot of traffic (and money) to the featured ones. Majority of people will just click on those and never look into the unfeatured ones. As the featured list changes very little we see the same names all the time. It would be nice to have some of the unfeatured ones to pop up and give new streamers a change to win over their audience.
How about separating concepts of popular and featured? have the front page stream list to have two categories: - most popular streams online. Just based on numbers of average viewers. - featured streams list that changes weekly. Either have some logic behind it, request system for being featured for next week, pure random pick or some combination of those.
On July 07 2013 20:42 murphs wrote: The desperation of avilo and his fanboys makes me cringe.
its nauseating. everywhere you go hes recruiting people to sing his praises.
I've never been much for interacting, but I felt like commenting on the one thing i DO see everywhere I go in the sc2 community: People getting on the bandwagon as soon as a player or personality is singled out as ok to pick on. Who you are doesn't seem to have as much to do with what you do as with being on the "right" side. I'm honestly getting so tired of this toxicity holding people down.
The established platforms and shows hold a lot of influence and the community is easily swayed. I seems like everyone goes to Reddit to get informed on whether Tasteless is considered a good caster this week or if it's ok to like Husky and then hit the forums and streams and bash accordingly. If you're not vetted by the right people, you're nobody and will go nowhere.
I'd personally like to have the entire selection and for people to make up their own minds as to what they like. While I'm not sure if the WCS requirement is the way to go, I'm glad TL is taking steps towards making the system more transparent.
ugh I hate this argument. People don't pick on him because a few people started to do it and everybody jumped on the bandwagon, people give him crap because hes earned it. He handles himself poorly not only on his stream but on the streams of other community figures. Even the way he handles himself on this forum is childish and unprofessional, he is constantly whining and getting banned for doing so. On topic, I agree that it is a good thing to have clearer guidelines for getting a stream to be featured.
On July 07 2013 09:47 Ben... wrote: As long as Nony stays featured, then I am happy.
Unfortunately, I don't think NonY would be featured under this policy unless he's in a special category for "notable streams". He hasn't been holding a consistent viewer count in the "several hundreds".
On July 07 2013 20:42 murphs wrote: The desperation of avilo and his fanboys makes me cringe.
its nauseating. everywhere you go hes recruiting people to sing his praises.
I've never been much for interacting, but I felt like commenting on the one thing i DO see everywhere I go in the sc2 community: People getting on the bandwagon as soon as a player or personality is singled out as ok to pick on. Who you are doesn't seem to have as much to do with what you do as with being on the "right" side. I'm honestly getting so tired of this toxicity holding people down.
The established platforms and shows hold a lot of influence and the community is easily swayed. I seems like everyone goes to Reddit to get informed on whether Tasteless is considered a good caster this week or if it's ok to like Husky and then hit the forums and streams and bash accordingly. If you're not vetted by the right people, you're nobody and will go nowhere.
I'd personally like to have the entire selection and for people to make up their own minds as to what they like. While I'm not sure if the WCS requirement is the way to go, I'm glad TL is taking steps towards making the system more transparent.
ugh I hate this argument. People don't pick on him because a few people started to do it and everybody jumped on the bandwagon, people give him crap because hes earned it. He handles himself poorly not only on his stream but on the streams of other community figures. Even the way he handles himself on this forum is childish and unprofessional, he is constantly whining and getting banned for doing so. On topic, I agree that it is a good thing to have clearer guidelines for getting a stream to be featured.
Its no bandwagon with Avilo. He has consistently earned his reputation. People may bandwagon a bit, but at the end of the day he lives up to a lot of peoples complaints.
On July 08 2013 02:07 Cowpieguy wrote: Wow, what's with all the hate for ProTech?! I really enjoy his stream. I would be very disappointed if he got taken off the featured list. I enjoy watching 2v2. I would argue he is one of the best 2v2 players out there. That's worth being featured.
I guess that him being a douchebag doesn't help, team games already have a bad reputation and watching constant BM in the only 2v2 featured stream may be a bitter experience. Anyway, I agree that he deserve to be featured, 2v2 is refreshing and Protech's play is enjoyable.
Hey, if anybody doesn't know me yet, I'm starbuck, 16 year old zerg player from Slovenia, today i got qualified into Challanger league in WCS beating korean protoss Genius :D So I'm going to stream with commentary, I have no idea who to contact for featured stream but here we go :D : http://www.twitch.tv/aspireaku
For anyone wondering why some current streamers are still featured, just remember this is an announcement and the evaluation process doesn't happen until the the period around the end of the WCS qualifiers. It will give streamers time to improve if they want to remain featured.
I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
On July 08 2013 04:40 starslayer wrote: sorry but have to ask why is flo featured? what has she done not in wcs not many viewers didnt do well in mlg jw its a question not bashing just facts
Because she has a good stream, decent viewer count, and was the first woman represented as a competitive player in the 'foreign' scene
On July 08 2013 05:36 SpecialistSc wrote: More girls needs to be featured
Just before scarlett posted...
On topic: Um, I emailed you guys about being featured... what constitutes "high viewers"? I am a caster that is basically "Hit or miss" decent. I have good play by play, but run-of-the-mill analytical skills.
Other: I run ESLTaiwan channel on twitch.tv. Can I have my twitch.tv/enders116 account featured on the front page instead?
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Is it just me or is the idea of MsSpyte getting featured really weird?
Its literally people watching her because "omg its a gurl gamer" and I'm not sure why a site like TL would encourage that kind of behaviour. Maybe if she joined a pro team and even tried playing in some tournaments, she would seem more legit.
Pretty sure it's just you
I am with Scarlett here, I am not willing to make value judgments on streamers, specifically in the "omg its a gurl gamer" cases. There could be a very talented female player and may also be entertaining and funny. I am not willing to write of a player just because there is a chance people are only watching her because she is a girl.
It's not a chance, it's a certainty.
Be realistic.
If you are willing to write her off just because she is a woman, that is your problem. And you should really think about the idea that TL shouldn't feature female streamers because we just assume that all their viewers are due to them being a woman. You can claim "being realistic" all you want, but at a certain point assuming something based solely on the gender of a person becomes sexism.
All I'm saying in "be realistic" is that she's getting the viewers because she is a girl, there is no doubt about it. I'm not trying to discredit her in any other way. If anything prefer equal treatment and if some mid-masters dude managed to get a thousand viewers without having any actual relevance to the scene, I would argue against him getting featured too.
I love girl gamers and especially Scarlett even when she doesn't agree with me, but I think some control needs to be had as long as TL.net is pushing the progamer agenda instead of being a pure popularity contest. Twitch already exists to do that. I hope you don't assume I'm sexist because of this.
On July 08 2013 04:40 starslayer wrote: sorry but have to ask why is flo featured? what has she done not in wcs not many viewers didnt do well in mlg jw its a question not bashing just facts
Because she has a good stream, decent viewer count, and was the first woman represented as a competitive player in the 'foreign' scene
yea your right she does have a good viewer count last couple times ive seen only like 200 but its like 600 700 now so nvm
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
So? I mean that's all very interesting, even if there's a fair amount of guess work in that analysis, but even if it does turn out that for small-time streamers being a girl helps a fair amount – what's your point? Life isn't fair? Viewers are superficial? You'd probably also get more viewers if you were stunningly attractive, or if you had an interesting accent, or if you were some famous person's brother, but so what?
Edit: Not trying to be antagonizing or something, so sorry if it came off that way. I just feel like it'd be pretty obnoxious if an otherwise-qualified female streamer didn't get featured because people were worried her viewers were watching her for the wrong reasons.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
definetly not, avilo is THE balance whiner alive
That's a dangerous territory to enter, as it is quite subjective. I guess nobody would disagree that avilo balance whines a LOT, but so does i.e. Idra. Where do you draw the line?
I agree that balance whining is not a good indicator of whether or not to feature people. I think results, accomplishments, and number of viewers are far more important.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
Pretty much this. Being a girl is no more advantage than having any other unique aspect to your stream (i.e. grandmasters, black, mech only, aggressive play, free coaching, even being a sponsored / pro player). It's a way to get your foot in the door, a tagline if you will, but just like anything else it's only through consistency and putting in effort to improve your stream that you're going to get higher stream views. I followed MsSpyte ~ a year ago for awhile and really enjoyed her stream, but she averaged <100 viewers. Many (if not most) pro players get less than her now because they don't stream consistently and dont interact with their audience, and I would say being a pro player is a much bigger 'advantage' to getting people to check out your stream than being a girl.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
Well if this post doesn't kill any discussion about "gamer girls" getting views because they are girls, I don't know what will. Two years is a long time and apparently Ms. Spyte is pretty good at SC2 as well. If someone has been streaming SC2 for 2 years and has a large fan base, I don't see any reason not to have them on the other notable streams.
Hell, Painuser is on there right now and we know when he got his highest viewer count. All it took was an 8 hour nap.
I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
I really don't get the Protech hate. He is the only 2v2 stream that I have seen, he streams pretty consistently and is pretty good at the game. Why not leave him featured to provide a casual/interesting alternative?
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
I stream 3 times a week almost every week, for at least a couple of hours For some reason my VODs dont get put up on the twitch servers most of the time, even though I am allowing people to view my past broadcasts So yeah only 2 VOds from july, 2 from february and 2 from january are up, awkwardly.
I started streaming in December 2011, for the first time. That was on 720p 30fps while I was still diamond. I have been masters for the past 5 seasons and have been upping my stream quality by purchasing a capture card and going 720p 60fps.
I did a lot of quality tweaking and took notice of a lot of feedback I got from viewers and other streamers, so I put effort in too =P. even using a dual screen set-up now so I can read the chat on the fly and interact.
Also, I'm not complaining I have little viewers or using the fact I'm not female as an excuse, I'm just going to keep working on my stream and see where it goes ;-)! I merely wanted to throw my experience in that a lot of low tier female streams seem to have a bit higher viewers than male counterparts.
Okay maybe not 10x as much, but double - perhaps? This is for low tier streamers only, I often check out the bottom streams.
On July 08 2013 21:52 FakePseudo wrote: I love the guy and all, but reading this, I wonder : why is Sarens still featured?
On July 08 2013 05:20 JBright wrote: For anyone wondering why some current streamers are still featured, just remember this is an announcement and the evaluation process doesn't happen until the the period around the end of the WCS qualifiers. It will give streamers time to improve if they want to remain featured.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
I stream 3 times a week almost every week, for at least a couple of hours For some reason my VODs dont get put up on the twitch servers most of the time, even though I am allowing people to view my past broadcasts So yeah only 2 VOds from july, 2 from february and 2 from january are up, awkwardly.
I started streaming in December 2011, for the first time. That was on 720p 30fps while I was still diamond. I have been masters for the past 5 seasons and have been upping my stream quality by purchasing a capture card and going 720p 60fps.
I did a lot of quality tweaking and took notice of a lot of feedback I got from viewers and other streamers, so I put effort in too =P. even using a dual screen set-up now so I can read the chat on the fly and interact.
Also, I'm not complaining I have little viewers or using the fact I'm not female as an excuse, I'm just going to keep working on my stream and see where it goes ;-)! I merely wanted to throw my experience in that a lot of low tier female streams seem to have a bit higher viewers than male counterparts.
Okay maybe not 10x as much, but double - perhaps? This is for low tier streamers only, I often check out the bottom streams.
Also, thanks for taking the time to reply!
Ohhhhh nice set up! Haha, I remember tilting my phone against my screen to display chat when I didn't have a second monitor, worthy investment. I was looking over your Q&A and you seem open to advice about improving viewer-count. Your strategies are intriguing and fun to watch, a rare quality for a non-progamer stream. Unfortunately, you didn't speak a word in any of the videos I looked over. People would really enjoy hearing more about your strategies and getting to know you personally. If its really difficult during the game, take a brief pause between games and explain what guided your decision making, or how the opponent could improve. Honestly, the only streams that I would consider watching without any interaction are some pro-gramer streams, but anything lower you can't get away with it. If you only type in chat, then new comers feel left out because they will be looking to you to 'initiate' the interaction. There's a lot of male and female streamers that do this and they tend to build an audience more quickly, even if the stream and gameplay are lower quality. Best of luck!
I can’t deny being female plays a big role but it’s hardly the main defining feature of Spyte. Nerdiness, video quality, webcam, broadcast frequency, stream numbers, video game music including the name of the track, keyboard mapper, level of play, chat interaction, work with ChanmanV, Keiko, attendance of several MLGs… what more will it take for people to give her the credit she deserves? And the guy judging her without even having seen her stream, that’s gold.
PS: This isn’t aimed at TL staff, I can understand if she hasn’t been featured yet precisely because people are very vocal about her getting featured which can be off-putting.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
Pretty much this. Being a girl is no more advantage than having any other unique aspect to your stream (i.e. grandmasters, black, mech only, aggressive play, free coaching, even being a sponsored / pro player). It's a way to get your foot in the door, a tagline if you will, but just like anything else it's only through consistency and putting in effort to improve your stream that you're going to get higher stream views. I followed MsSpyte ~ a year ago for awhile and really enjoyed her stream, but she averaged <100 viewers. Many (if not most) pro players get less than her now because they don't stream consistently and dont interact with their audience, and I would say being a pro player is a much bigger 'advantage' to getting people to check out your stream than being a girl.
I completely agree. We all should embrace the fact that there are female streamers. Of course they will attract more viewers than a male streamer of the same skill level, as the target audience almost completely consists of males. But being female surely isn't enough to be a successful streamer.
For example, I really enjoy watching MaddeLisk's stream, because she's always explaining her decisions and interacting a lot with chat (even during games). Her being a woman was the reason why I first clicked on her stream, but if she had been another silent ladder robot, I definitely would not have added her stream to my favourites.
On July 09 2013 06:23 Zax19 wrote: I can’t deny being female plays a big role but it’s hardly the main defining feature of Spyte. Nerdiness, video quality, webcam, broadcast frequency, stream numbers, video game music including the name of the track, keyboard mapper, level of play, chat interaction, work with ChanmanV, Keiko, attendance of several MLGs… what more will it take for people to give her the credit she deserves? And the guy judging her without even having seen her stream, that’s gold.
PS: This isn’t aimed at TL staff, I can understand if she hasn’t been featured yet precisely because people are very vocal about her getting featured which can be off-putting.
She isn`t featured yet because this whole process isn`t reviewed until the end of qualifiers for WCS. Also I agree, she has a very good stream and regular schedule which makes it easier to follow.
Can somebody explain to me why QuantifcFlo is actually featured? I think she doesn't meet any of the mentioned criteria. No WCS participation, no tournament results and her stream numbers are also quite low.
On July 09 2013 07:37 Sandwichtoast wrote: Can somebody explain to me why QuantifcFlo is actually featured? I think she doesn't meet any of the mentioned criteria. No WCS participation, no tournament results and her stream numbers are also quite low.
As the post above your own says, these changes will not happen until the end of the WCS qualifiers.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
As long as mah boy Desrow is never taken off the list I'll be happy.
But he gets pretty good numbers and is doing even better lately so I guess he's pretty safe.
Honestly, I think any up-and-comer streamers should probably check his stream out sometime. He interacts with the chat all the time, explains his strategies, takes time to do Q and A sessions, and even holds raffles and shit for his fans. Other small details are things like saying: "We're gonna queue up some matches and then we're gonna cannon rush." He means "I" but he's saying "we" so you feel, as a viewer, that you are part of the action and are engaged. Also, warning people that ads are coming and not spamming them with ads in the middle of the game is a big deal.
Plus, making sure your chat is well moderated is a big deal. I like chatting a lot while I'm watching streams so I hate it when a chat is full of spam or bots. Code S level play isn't necessary to getting a good fan-base, it's all about interaction and attitude and marketing.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
Now I feel the need to defend myself.
I won the PTSL S2 knocking out known pro gamers and code S players who prepared for the tournament. I've knocked out many top known pro gamers in 1v1 and streamed the games. Until you watch all the vods, don't post such a completely asinine post. I've proven time and time again that I have the ability to beat top GM players, but the fact of the matter is my following comes from 2v2 and why I was featured in the first place was for 2v2.
I have a decent viewership, have plenty of achievements to remain in the section.
On July 08 2013 02:07 Cowpieguy wrote: Wow, what's with all the hate for ProTech?! I really enjoy his stream. I would be very disappointed if he got taken off the featured list. I enjoy watching 2v2. I would argue he is one of the best 2v2 players out there. That's worth being featured.
I guess that him being a douchebag doesn't help, team games already have a bad reputation and watching constant BM in the only 2v2 featured stream may be a bitter experience. Anyway, I agree that he deserve to be featured, 2v2 is refreshing and Protech's play is enjoyable.
Even if being a douchebag was criteria for removal, there would be a lot more being removed from being featured. I seen him be one to viewers, his opponents and his own teammates, so I choose to stop watching. He gets consistent viewers for 2v2 and is a good player. Nice to see a variety.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
Now I feel the need to defend myself.
I won the PTSL S2 knocking out known pro gamers and code S players who prepared for the tournament. I've knocked out many top known pro gamers in 1v1 and streamed the games. Until you watch all the vods, don't post such a completely asinine post. I've proven time and time again that I have the ability to beat top GM players, but the fact of the matter is my following comes from 2v2 and why I was featured in the first place was for 2v2.
I have a decent viewership, have plenty of achievements to remain in the section.
This is exactly what I mean. I won't go any further than to say Power is a very good random player, in both 1v1 and 2v2, and that one tournament achievement in 2v2 from nearly 2 years ago should not keep you featured.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
Now I feel the need to defend myself.
I won the PTSL S2 knocking out known pro gamers and code S players who prepared for the tournament. I've knocked out many top known pro gamers in 1v1 and streamed the games. Until you watch all the vods, don't post such a completely asinine post. I've proven time and time again that I have the ability to beat top GM players, but the fact of the matter is my following comes from 2v2 and why I was featured in the first place was for 2v2.
I have a decent viewership, have plenty of achievements to remain in the section.
Again I might add my post wasn't about defending Protech's level of play. Why everyone keeps pointing out his ability in 1v1 is beyond me. Protech is not a 1v1 competitive player he is a 2v2 competitive player. Its like comparing apples to oranges, yes they are both fruits and come from a tree but its a different tree. Maybe having Protech a "Featured Stream" isn't the answer but I do believe at the very least he should be on Notable Streams. Ill state my point one more time, TL.net is a great website for new and old members to see good competitive streams and Protech does deliver that in 2v2. Some of the requirements to be a featured streamer are qualifying so high in WCS. Well there isnt a bracket in that tournament for 2v2 so why should a 2v2 streamer like Protech be knocked out when he cant even compete? My point is that as long as communities keep the 2v2 out there it will eventually grow. It just needs to get out there and websites like this should continue to support it. WCS should support it too and maybe if more people voice their opinions that want to see it, they will come around and make it. I watched the whole WCS tournament last year and WoW had way less viewers compared to SC2 but they still had the tournament. Why not have a 2v2 one, yeah it wont have 100k viewers but it will have plenty of viewers to support it and having a prize pool will only encourage more SC2 pros to give it a shot.
I just want to see SC2 grow more than just the 1v1 and I feel this website is the first stepping stone to seeing that happen. Oh and trust me on this I have voiced my opinion on the SC2 forums about getting WCS involved in team games. Obviously this isn't going to happen anytime in the near future but at least lets have hope for a future.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
Now I feel the need to defend myself.
I won the PTSL S2 knocking out known pro gamers and code S players who prepared for the tournament. I've knocked out many top known pro gamers in 1v1 and streamed the games. Until you watch all the vods, don't post such a completely asinine post. I've proven time and time again that I have the ability to beat top GM players, but the fact of the matter is my following comes from 2v2 and why I was featured in the first place was for 2v2.
I have a decent viewership, have plenty of achievements to remain in the section.
This is exactly what I mean. I won't go any further than to say Power is a very good random player, in both 1v1 and 2v2, and that one tournament achievement in 2v2 from nearly 2 years ago should not keep you featured.
That is all.
So the only notable 2v2 tournament and yes, the ONLY notable 2v2 tournament shouldn't keep someone featured, ok bro whatever you say.
On July 07 2013 10:49 teamamerica wrote: I'm just wondering how often people who got featured through non WCS tournys get culled from the list. You mentioned you do it after every WCS qualifier, but I'm sure there are cases where the WCS qualifiers are right after a premier tourny, so if you reach Ro16 in say, Dreamhack Valencia, and then the WCS qualifiers end next week but you drop out, do you lose feature status so quickly?
This is from a handful of pages ago but to be clear I agree it would be pretty unfair for someone to hit a Ro16 and then be defeatured purely because it's near the end of our cycle, so in those instances people will be given more time.
Also I agree with what Spyte posted regarding women and streams. From what I've seen their averages tend to be slightly higher on a base level, but honestly it's a lot less than people realize. Retaining viewers is more a function of how well you personalize the stream and once you get above a certain range it's not just some innate quality, it's generally a measure that something is being done right.
I am in support of keeping Protech's stream featured.
As someone big into the 2v2 scene, I wanted to post my thoughts about Protech and his stream. While there are some other notable 2v2'ers, nobody comes close to the skill level of Protech. He has been globally rank #1 in 2v2 for countless seasons. Currently, he is top 5 with the highest win ratio (72%!) among any top 2v2er- and many of his losses include him leaving multiple games due to stream cheaters and maphackers.
In addition, there is still a lot of potential for growth in the 2v2 scene on a competitive level, and Protech's stream helps promote this.
My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
sometimes "over all average" is a poor descriptive statistic because it can be very useful in some cases people tend to think "over all average" is the "silver bullet" of statistics. and it is not..
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
Yeah it's same for me but on the Zerg side of things. Tbh though I don't see TL ever removing you from the feature list unless you asked or something.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
I stream 3 times a week almost every week, for at least a couple of hours For some reason my VODs dont get put up on the twitch servers most of the time, even though I am allowing people to view my past broadcasts So yeah only 2 VOds from july, 2 from february and 2 from january are up, awkwardly.
I started streaming in December 2011, for the first time. That was on 720p 30fps while I was still diamond. I have been masters for the past 5 seasons and have been upping my stream quality by purchasing a capture card and going 720p 60fps.
I did a lot of quality tweaking and took notice of a lot of feedback I got from viewers and other streamers, so I put effort in too =P. even using a dual screen set-up now so I can read the chat on the fly and interact.
Also, I'm not complaining I have little viewers or using the fact I'm not female as an excuse, I'm just going to keep working on my stream and see where it goes ;-)! I merely wanted to throw my experience in that a lot of low tier female streams seem to have a bit higher viewers than male counterparts.
Okay maybe not 10x as much, but double - perhaps? This is for low tier streamers only, I often check out the bottom streams.
Also, thanks for taking the time to reply!
I would say everything else being equal that a female will get 2-3x the viewers of a male. Its silly to talk as if there's something wrong with this though. They 'deserve' this advantage because the market dictates it. There's a lower supply of female streamers. It's simple supply and demand. 2-3x is hardly anything anyways.
You could also complain that good looking streamers get more viewers than ugly ones but that wouldn't be very productive either now would it?
You're in an entertainment industry. There are a lot of variables at play that have nothing to do with how you play starcraft.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
On July 08 2013 13:01 Grimfish wrote: I really wanted to voice my opinion on here to the extent that I just registered my first account even though I have been an active TL.net viewer for 3+ years. I'm not here to bash anyone's opinions and I think the overall policy is a good thing, but I would like to comment on Protech.
I feel like this guy should be an exception to these rules because he brings so much more to SC2 E-Sports than just a random 200-300 viewer streamer. This guy on a daily basis shows people that Starcraft has way more depth than just 1v1 competitive play. 2v2 obviously isn't for everyone but I do believe it is very entertaining for a wide variety of people. It is nice to see something different from time to time and 2v2 and 3v3 can provide that. I also think that if more Tournaments held 2v2 games the audience will in fact grow. One of the biggest problems with the current game is that I think it can get a little dull. Strategies become popular and you get into this little grind where a 6 month span can be the same strategies and the game seems to just come down to that 1 engagement. Then someone comes up with a good strategy and every is on that band wagon for another 6 months. 2v2 and 3v3 can keep things fresh, keep things different, and keep SC2 E-Sports growing with more depth.
This post isn't just about Protech either its about expanding SC2 E-Sports as a whole. I would love to see other streamers do this as well. The only other team I can think of that does this is ROOT and I LOVE IT. If people would just take more time and advertise team games more the popularity will grow, I know it. Sorry if this is long and dumb but its literally my first post ever on TL, in the years I have been here, and probably the last. Enjoy!
**EDIT** Just to be clear my intentions of this post is to grow SC2 in E-Sports. Just as the featured list is to grow the player community of SC2. I just feel this game is a lot more than 1v1 and people should look into ways of bringing it out and getting more involved. Protech consistently brings that to the table just like ROOT does, on occasion, as I mentioned.
Hi, yes, we understand about expanding eSports - but that's not what people are saying in this thread. They're saying that solely because a person has viewers does not equate them to being a valuable asset to competitive RTS game play which TL wishes to advance, at least to some degree. The problem with players such as Protech is that he misleads, willingly I might add, many of his stream viewers about his skill level. A testament to his actual 1v1 rating is 50% w/r season 6 at ~800 masters as zerg. If you ever bother to catch him streaming his 1v1 games they're... well... His strategy, skill, and overall game play lack anything close to resembling a GM player; yet, he brands himself as such because he plays 2v2 and gets viewers. Now, I don't want to come down on the guy too hard but if any actual GM player were to play 2v2 and dedicate time to it they'd more than likely entertain you with much more compelling games than Protech, knock his RT rank way down, and completely change how you view 2v2 altogether.
That is the argument people are making: If you do want to encourage these people to play, or deepen the levels of which SC2 can grow, then there needs to be some demand for their skill set. Until then, no one good will competitively care about 2v2 other than like ninja and azide and mystic and power simply because they dominate 2v2 tournaments. Just because you want the game to not be completely 1v1 based does not mean it will change. It might be a sad day to realize but the game and competitive scene do not revolve around what 200-300 fans of Protech, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 want. The same is true for anything else that has viewers because of one exclusive reason or cater to a smaller audience.
I personally think that unless someone brings something 'significant' to the scene, or meets the skill requirement set by this thread that they should not be featured. If they can reasonably prove that their viewers are a testament to their advancement of Esports, or something actually of value, and not just random viewership then I don't think it'd be a problem to see them featured. I personally do not think just having viewers because you stream 2v2 is enough of a 'qualification' to be featured comparatively to the people who qualify through WCS. Edit: While I do think what I wrote here is important based on principle one cannot forget that the featured stream links, and stream links in general, are a very big venture capital for TL. This is why they have an interest in viewership as a qualification. I don't really like the principle though...
I do look foward to the WCS qualification bringing in a lot new EU and NA streamers tho. More EU than NA that's for sure, but still more in general. Do work~
Now I feel the need to defend myself.
I won the PTSL S2 knocking out known pro gamers and code S players who prepared for the tournament. I've knocked out many top known pro gamers in 1v1 and streamed the games. Until you watch all the vods, don't post such a completely asinine post. I've proven time and time again that I have the ability to beat top GM players, but the fact of the matter is my following comes from 2v2 and why I was featured in the first place was for 2v2.
I have a decent viewership, have plenty of achievements to remain in the section.
This is exactly what I mean. I won't go any further than to say Power is a very good random player, in both 1v1 and 2v2, and that one tournament achievement in 2v2 from nearly 2 years ago should not keep you featured.
That is all.
So the only notable 2v2 tournament and yes, the ONLY notable 2v2 tournament shouldn't keep someone featured, ok bro whatever you say.
No, it shouldn't, because it happened two years ago. It's like saying that winning the first Beta tournament for WoL should be enough to stay featured forever.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
I'm trying to bring up some serious issues with their policy and he comes along and gives his word that he doesn't avoid competition and then he posts his estimates of stream numbers. First, the policy hasn't been enacted yet and wasn't public knowledge before this, so no shit he hasn't been doing anything to bring his average up. Nobody has. But they might start and that's a problem. Second, he knows TL.net is gathering the exact stats. Why does he tell me what his stream numbers are? Being frank and telling him I don't give a shit isn't dripping with social grace but it's the right thing to do. I don't know what he was up to with that shit but it wasn't helpful.
As for the real issue, here's some more free advice. There are nice things streamers do for their viewers that result in less viewers. The thing that gets me the most viewers is playing nonstop ladder games with a positive attitude, playing well, having camera and microphone on and talking a lot. If I'm not performing as well at the moment or I'm not in the mood to talk, but some people would still appreciate me flipping the stream on, then I'd like to turn the stream on even though I get less viewers. If I know I'm going to need to take frequent breaks, I'd like to flip the stream on anyway. Shorter session gives less viewers. Q&A session gives lesser viewers. Playing arcade games gives less viewers. Doing analysis gives less viewers. But sometimes I want to do those things and even though there are less people interested in watching, there are still people who would rather see me do those things than see nothing at all.
This is of course added on to the fact that streaming while more popular content is on gives less viewers.
The point is that there are downsides to making "average concurrent viewers" the most important determinant. No one should be discouraged from putting content out there.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
I'm trying to bring up some serious issues with their policy and he comes along and gives his word that he doesn't avoid competition and then he posts his estimates of stream numbers. First, the policy hasn't been enacted yet and wasn't public knowledge before this, so no shit he hasn't been doing anything to bring his average up. Nobody has. But they might start and that's a problem. Second, he knows TL.net is gathering the exact stats. Why does he tell me what his stream numbers are? Being frank and telling him I don't give a shit isn't dripping with social grace but it's the right thing to do. I don't know what he was up to with that shit but it wasn't helpful.
As for the real issue, here's some more free advice. There are nice things streamers do for their viewers that result in less viewers. The thing that gets me the most viewers is playing nonstop ladder games with a positive attitude, playing well, having camera and microphone on and talking a lot. If I'm not performing as well at the moment or I'm not in the mood to talk, but some people would still appreciate me flipping the stream on, then I'd like to turn the stream on even though I get less viewers. If I know I'm going to need to take frequent breaks, I'd like to flip the stream on anyway. Shorter session gives less viewers. Q&A session gives lesser viewers. Playing arcade games gives less viewers. Doing analysis gives less viewers. But sometimes I want to do those things and even though there are less people interested in watching, there are still people who would rather see me do those things than see nothing at all.
This is of course added on to the fact that streaming while more popular content is on gives less viewers.
The point is that there are downsides to making "average concurrent viewers" the most important determinant. No one should be discouraged from putting content out there.
Social graces aside, that was just flat out aggressive. Your 100% correct that the information he provided you is worthless, but just call it that. Or be witty and make some dismissive comment. Or say nothing. Making a comment like the one you did just makes you look like an asshole, which I know your not. But I have been following you since I first listened to State of the Game 3 years ago. Everyone else may not see it that way.
Now, you are Nony and may not care and you could just ignore me, but I hope not. Because stuff that like grows and grows and then haunts you later on when people dig it up, and I don't want to see that.
So based on the rules, CombatEX qualifies for the featured list due to his Ro8 finish in WCG 2012 and his ability to attract +3,000 viewers per stream?
On July 10 2013 13:20 Balthazar wrote: So based on the rules, CombatEX qualifies for the featured list due to his Ro8 finish in WCG 2012 and his ability to attract +3,000 viewers per stream?
I think you are forgetting some other rules, you know, the ones everyone supposedly reads before posting?
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
I'm trying to bring up some serious issues with their policy and he comes along and gives his word that he doesn't avoid competition and then he posts his estimates of stream numbers. First, the policy hasn't been enacted yet and wasn't public knowledge before this, so no shit he hasn't been doing anything to bring his average up. Nobody has. But they might start and that's a problem. Second, he knows TL.net is gathering the exact stats. Why does he tell me what his stream numbers are? Being frank and telling him I don't give a shit isn't dripping with social grace but it's the right thing to do. I don't know what he was up to with that shit but it wasn't helpful.
As for the real issue, here's some more free advice. There are nice things streamers do for their viewers that result in less viewers. The thing that gets me the most viewers is playing nonstop ladder games with a positive attitude, playing well, having camera and microphone on and talking a lot. If I'm not performing as well at the moment or I'm not in the mood to talk, but some people would still appreciate me flipping the stream on, then I'd like to turn the stream on even though I get less viewers. If I know I'm going to need to take frequent breaks, I'd like to flip the stream on anyway. Shorter session gives less viewers. Q&A session gives lesser viewers. Playing arcade games gives less viewers. Doing analysis gives less viewers. But sometimes I want to do those things and even though there are less people interested in watching, there are still people who would rather see me do those things than see nothing at all.
This is of course added on to the fact that streaming while more popular content is on gives less viewers.
The point is that there are downsides to making "average concurrent viewers" the most important determinant. No one should be discouraged from putting content out there.
Social graces aside, that was just flat out aggressive. Your 100% correct that the information he provided you is worthless, but just call it that. Or be witty and make some dismissive comment. Or say nothing. Making a comment like the one you did just makes you look like an asshole, which I know your not. But I have been following you since I first listened to State of the Game 3 years ago. Everyone else may not see it that way.
Now, you are Nony and may not care and you could just ignore me, but I hope not. Because stuff that like grows and grows and then haunts you later on when people dig it up, and I don't want to see that.
I generally agree with Nony, and I sympathize with him in this case. WCS is on often, which leaves time for other streamers, but because of the way TL is making their featured stream system based on concurrent viewers, they are discouraging people from putting content out there. Though, I don't understand what would be a better way to make people featured for, considering the way TL exists as the "old boys' club" possibly based around community voting? I have no idea what they would use instead. The way this system is being constructed, it doesn't necessarily produce a quality featured stream list.
On July 10 2013 13:20 Balthazar wrote: So based on the rules, CombatEX qualifies for the featured list due to his Ro8 finish in WCG 2012 and his ability to attract +3,000 viewers per stream?
Why would you bring this up? Ignoring the fact that your comment is worthless to the conversation, you opt to bring up someone that has been banned from streaming from TL indefinitely and therefor these rules dont apply to him. Please don't bring up questions you already know the answer to.
0.0 fook does this mean i have to start playing again so i can smash some scrub chobo nerds in wcs? i've had it easy all this time.. im finally gonna have to work for something for the first time in my life
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
I'm not telling you that. I'm making it known that I don't do what you do, so my numbers look low, because i don't start to peak until EU hours. Has nothing to do with you.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
I'm trying to bring up some serious issues with their policy and he comes along and gives his word that he doesn't avoid competition and then he posts his estimates of stream numbers. First, the policy hasn't been enacted yet and wasn't public knowledge before this, so no shit he hasn't been doing anything to bring his average up. Nobody has. But they might start and that's a problem. Second, he knows TL.net is gathering the exact stats. Why does he tell me what his stream numbers are? Being frank and telling him I don't give a shit isn't dripping with social grace but it's the right thing to do. I don't know what he was up to with that shit but it wasn't helpful.
As for the real issue, here's some more free advice. There are nice things streamers do for their viewers that result in less viewers. The thing that gets me the most viewers is playing nonstop ladder games with a positive attitude, playing well, having camera and microphone on and talking a lot. If I'm not performing as well at the moment or I'm not in the mood to talk, but some people would still appreciate me flipping the stream on, then I'd like to turn the stream on even though I get less viewers. If I know I'm going to need to take frequent breaks, I'd like to flip the stream on anyway. Shorter session gives less viewers. Q&A session gives lesser viewers. Playing arcade games gives less viewers. Doing analysis gives less viewers. But sometimes I want to do those things and even though there are less people interested in watching, there are still people who would rather see me do those things than see nothing at all.
This is of course added on to the fact that streaming while more popular content is on gives less viewers.
The point is that there are downsides to making "average concurrent viewers" the most important determinant. No one should be discouraged from putting content out there.
Social graces aside, that was just flat out aggressive. Your 100% correct that the information he provided you is worthless, but just call it that. Or be witty and make some dismissive comment. Or say nothing. Making a comment like the one you did just makes you look like an asshole, which I know your not. But I have been following you since I first listened to State of the Game 3 years ago. Everyone else may not see it that way.
Now, you are Nony and may not care and you could just ignore me, but I hope not. Because stuff that like grows and grows and then haunts you later on when people dig it up, and I don't want to see that.
You realize that if I took your advice, then I'd be adjusting my words with the sole purpose of manipulating my readers to think better of me, which would actually make me a much worse person and would make the amount of miscommunication going on that much greater? Every public statement I make should simultaneously be propaganda to fix me firmly within mainstream ideals and tastes? This is some seriously sinister shit you are suggesting. I'd rather be widely misinterpreted than support some mass deception.
On July 10 2013 02:43 NonY wrote: My viewer numbers are more affected by what other content is available than how I change my own content. This policy discourages me from streaming at a time like right now, when WCS and Grubby are streaming, because my average viewers will be brought down lower than the maintenance number. But it's not like this displaces my stream to a better time. I practice when I practice and keeping my stream off at competitive times in order to retain my privilege of being featured on TL.net for uncompetitive times is just lost content for the people who want to watch my stream.
For the record also, this is not something I do. And it usually takes my stream awhile to peak, and as of late, it has been peaking 4-500 almost every day.
I don't give a shit. Why are you telling me this?
Damn, Nony, there are days when I think your awesome and then there are days than I wonder about your impulse control and social skills.
I'm trying to bring up some serious issues with their policy and he comes along and gives his word that he doesn't avoid competition and then he posts his estimates of stream numbers. First, the policy hasn't been enacted yet and wasn't public knowledge before this, so no shit he hasn't been doing anything to bring his average up. Nobody has. But they might start and that's a problem. Second, he knows TL.net is gathering the exact stats. Why does he tell me what his stream numbers are? Being frank and telling him I don't give a shit isn't dripping with social grace but it's the right thing to do. I don't know what he was up to with that shit but it wasn't helpful.
As for the real issue, here's some more free advice. There are nice things streamers do for their viewers that result in less viewers. The thing that gets me the most viewers is playing nonstop ladder games with a positive attitude, playing well, having camera and microphone on and talking a lot. If I'm not performing as well at the moment or I'm not in the mood to talk, but some people would still appreciate me flipping the stream on, then I'd like to turn the stream on even though I get less viewers. If I know I'm going to need to take frequent breaks, I'd like to flip the stream on anyway. Shorter session gives less viewers. Q&A session gives lesser viewers. Playing arcade games gives less viewers. Doing analysis gives less viewers. But sometimes I want to do those things and even though there are less people interested in watching, there are still people who would rather see me do those things than see nothing at all.
This is of course added on to the fact that streaming while more popular content is on gives less viewers.
The point is that there are downsides to making "average concurrent viewers" the most important determinant. No one should be discouraged from putting content out there.
Social graces aside, that was just flat out aggressive. Your 100% correct that the information he provided you is worthless, but just call it that. Or be witty and make some dismissive comment. Or say nothing. Making a comment like the one you did just makes you look like an asshole, which I know your not. But I have been following you since I first listened to State of the Game 3 years ago. Everyone else may not see it that way.
Now, you are Nony and may not care and you could just ignore me, but I hope not. Because stuff that like grows and grows and then haunts you later on when people dig it up, and I don't want to see that.
You realize that if I took your advice, then I'd be adjusting my words with the sole purpose of manipulating my readers to think better of me, which would actually make me a much worse person and would make the amount of miscommunication going on that much greater? Every public statement I make should simultaneously be propaganda to fix me firmly within mainstream ideals and tastes? This is some seriously sinister shit you are suggesting. I'd rather be widely misinterpreted than support some mass deception.
I would say that is a little dramatic and not really what I was suggesting at all. There is no minulaption involved in putting your best face forward and we have all see the funny, witty side of Nony. It also a single statement on the internet and not worth an all out debate over. Your a grown man and you can act any way you please. I was just saying that as a fan, sometimes statements like that are a little off putting.
While I understand the concern about people adjusting their behavior to game the system, it's not something that is very likely to have any kind of major impact. Streamers making sure not to stream against big name tournaments like WCS and the like, this already happens with a lot of our up-and-coming features. Desrow and Blitz both were very careful and planned about their streaming for months (maybe even a full year) when they knew they were right on the edge of our notability/skill standards, and neither of them have to worry about it now having successfully grown their fanbase past the point of uncertainty. There is also the chance that encouraging people to stream during non-crowded times creates more good content at all hours which is a positive situation for our users and fans.
As to being able to stream what you want instead of laddering, I don't see this causing issues either. Streaming fun games every so often isn't going to have a major effect over the long haul, and since we're not looking at things on a small/weekly basis this won't come into play. It's not like anyone wants to stream themselves playing only UMS, and the vast majority of people streaming keep a good balance of these things already, since there is direct monetary incentive from twitch to keep high viewer counts, so it's unlikely to bring any change.
This would be more difficult analysis to do, but wouldn't it make sense for TL to consider when someone was streaming in addition to how many viewers they had? 500 viewers at 5 AM is not equal to 500 viewers in prime viewing hours. Even if you didn't go the extra mile to account for streams occurring at the same time as major tournaments, at least accounting for different times of day could help ensure TL staff is seeing the full picture when deciding whether to feature a streamer. If two North American streamers have similar appeal, but one tends to stream at 6 PM PST and the other at 5 AM PST, the viewer counts will be different, but by looking at the times they usually streamed, you could easily see they are, in fact, similarly deserving of being featured.
It's kind of too bad that there's no system for only featuring someone when they're doing particular things. That is, someone's laddering stream might be a high quality stream that draws viewers and deserves to be featured; but other times when they decide to play custom games with a few of their bigger fans, you don't exactly want to discourage them from doing that, but it's also not why they're featured. Then viewer numbers during these custom game sessions could be ignored, and only numbers from their ladder sessions would actually be considered for featuring purposes. Anyone who favorited their stream would still see when they were streaming custom games, but there's not much reason to feature that.
The most obvious is to not use arithmetic mean. Maybe cut the lowest 25% of viewing periods, and then take the average of that, or work out how much time is spent above the required level.
There are ways to compensate for variability of viewers and competition, it will just be a case of the TL guys making something that they are comfortable with, and then hopefully explaining it to the users, or using more metrics than simply outright viewer numbers, such as share of overall non-competition viewers etc.
On July 11 2013 05:36 Heyoka wrote: While I understand the concern about people adjusting their behavior to game the system, it's not something that is very likely to have any kind of major impact. Streamers making sure not to stream against big name tournaments like WCS and the like, this already happens with a lot of our up-and-coming features. Desrow and Blitz both were very careful and planned about their streaming for months (maybe even a full year) when they knew they were right on the edge of our notability/skill standards, and neither of them have to worry about it now having successfully grown their fanbase past the point of uncertainty. There is also the chance that encouraging people to stream during non-crowded times creates more good content at all hours which is a positive situation for our users and fans.
This is saying that the old system did nothing to address this issue and so it's fine that the new system does nothing to address this issue, either?
And additionally it's saying that it's a good thing to make WCS players' practice schedules slaves to when their streams will get most viewers?
On July 11 2013 05:36 Heyoka wrote: As to being able to stream what you want instead of laddering, I don't see this causing issues either. Streaming fun games every so often isn't going to have a major effect over the long haul, and since we're not looking at things on a small/weekly basis this won't come into play. It's not like anyone wants to stream themselves playing only UMS, and the vast majority of people streaming keep a good balance of these things already, since there is direct monetary incentive from twitch to keep high viewer counts, so it's unlikely to bring any change.
Some of the language and arguments used earlier in this thread make it seem like it's a good thing for streamers to do everything they can to increase their average concurrent viewers stat, but only idealistic changes were listed like "show more personality" and "have good production" and "interact with viewers". I list some more things that affect average concurrent viewers and you just declare them insignificant. How am I supposed to respond to this? If you don't know that streaming 2 hour sessions gets significantly lower viewers than streaming 5 hour sessions, then I'm at a loss.
As you said, Twitch already provides incentive for increasing average concurrent viewers. Why does TL want to multiply its significance? By using other standards, you can encourage a variety of content.
On July 11 2013 05:36 Heyoka wrote: ...the vast majority of people streaming keep a good balance of these things already, since there is direct monetary incentive from twitch to keep high viewer counts, so it's unlikely to bring any change.
I don't think this is right. There's always been some incentive from Twitch to have high viewer counts, but being featured or not on TL can make or break you as a streamer. So if you know you're being considered for a TL Featured Stream, and there's some cheap tricks you can do to inflate your viewer numbers without actually improving stream quality, surely that's a much stronger incentive than a couple extra bucks from each ad you run. We probably don't want to create an incentive to only stream in the time windows that will draw the most viewers, or to never stream anything but ladder, or to avoid streaming during tournaments. Ideally we'd like to encourage people to stream as much as possible, and if they want to do something like custom games with fans that won't draw as many viewers, that's not necessarily bad, either.
It seems like for viewing hours you'd want to divide the data into a) streaming during NA prime time, b) streaming during EU prime time, c) streaming during Korea prime time, d) streaming during dead periods, and e) streaming at the same time as a premier tournament, as defined by Liquipedia. Then you can look at averages for each, although some of them might not have any data. So if someone has a low average viewer count overall, but they do quite well during NA prime time hours and they just usually stream during dead hours, that should be treated differently than someone who has low average viewers despite streaming mostly at good times. If it was known TL did an analysis like this, then the incentive to game the system would drop significantly (although there'd still be a big incentive to lengthen your streaming sessions, which I don't know how to fix).
On July 08 2013 05:30 Blitz wrote: I think its a bit presumptuous to say that being a female gets you viewers. The novelty of it wears off for most people quite quickly. If you just offer looks, unless you're ultra nerd tier / loner, it'll get old staring at a girl playing a game at a mediocre / awful level. I think it helps to bring people in at first sure, but you still have to be moderately entertaining and decent to retain an audience. Plenty of female streamers that get 100-300 viewers, but it takes skill and at least some talent to get past that threshold of just being a female streamer. Sucks to undermine achievements based on being a girl gamer TT
Lets look at it differently.
I'll take myself for example:
I am a mid masters zerg player that has a really aggressive playstyle and doesn't play by the book at all. I run a 720p 60fps stream with HQ sound, custom UI, HD cam and everything. I get what, 40 viewers on a good day. My guess is that if I were to be a cute girl, I would be hitting >100 viewers, at the very least.
What lead me to this guess is that most of the female streams that are out there which I have watched, have less to offer than a lot of male counterpart streams, yet the females get 10 times the viewers, if not more. Their skill level would be worse, the stream quality would be worse and the commentary insight would be inferior.
I have no problem with female streamer, hell I encourage them even! and I mean no disrespect to them either. But at the lower tier streams (as in viewers, since superb quality streams can still only have small viewer amounts), being a female gives you such a significant boost in viewercount, that you can't possibly say it has no correlation.
It doesn't look like you stream often, 12 times total, about 2 streams a month. I averaged much less than 100 viewers for my first few months, streaming 3-5 times a week. It took me two years to get to where I am now, I started in November 2011. Quality is good to have, but I'd argue that the most important thing in developing a fanbase is streaming consistently and interacting with chat, which I understand is difficult because I'm a full time student and chat is not always kind. Females don't get 10x as many viewers as males, that's kind of silly to say, very few break 1k, and a lot sit at <100. Streaming can be stressful, but those that succeed work hard at either improving as a player or improving as a streamer.
I stream 3 times a week almost every week, for at least a couple of hours For some reason my VODs dont get put up on the twitch servers most of the time, even though I am allowing people to view my past broadcasts So yeah only 2 VOds from july, 2 from february and 2 from january are up, awkwardly.
I started streaming in December 2011, for the first time. That was on 720p 30fps while I was still diamond. I have been masters for the past 5 seasons and have been upping my stream quality by purchasing a capture card and going 720p 60fps.
I did a lot of quality tweaking and took notice of a lot of feedback I got from viewers and other streamers, so I put effort in too =P. even using a dual screen set-up now so I can read the chat on the fly and interact.
Also, I'm not complaining I have little viewers or using the fact I'm not female as an excuse, I'm just going to keep working on my stream and see where it goes ;-)! I merely wanted to throw my experience in that a lot of low tier female streams seem to have a bit higher viewers than male counterparts.
Okay maybe not 10x as much, but double - perhaps? This is for low tier streamers only, I often check out the bottom streams.
Also, thanks for taking the time to reply!
I would say everything else being equal that a female will get 2-3x the viewers of a male. Its silly to talk as if there's something wrong with this though. They 'deserve' this advantage because the market dictates it. There's a lower supply of female streamers. It's simple supply and demand. 2-3x is hardly anything anyways.
You could also complain that good looking streamers get more viewers than ugly ones but that wouldn't be very productive either now would it?
You're in an entertainment industry. There are a lot of variables at play that have nothing to do with how you play starcraft.
Agreed. I merely joined in on the discussion - I am not judging or upset at females having the far superiority ! They have a niche variable, good for them, best of luck to them!
They still have to work their ass off to bring a good stream to the table of course, it's not like they can put on their cam and peak >1k viewers every time
On July 16 2013 04:03 NonY wrote: Is this not open for discussion?
If you don't mind my asking, what's your solution for how featured streams should work? I guess you don't have to have one, but it would make your criticisms of the proposed policy stronger if you had an alternative policy in mind. As far as I can tell your criticisms are largely correct, but the new system is still probably an improvement, even if it isn't perfect.
On July 16 2013 04:03 NonY wrote: Is this not open for discussion?
If you don't mind my asking, what's your solution for how featured streams should work? I guess you don't have to have one, but it would make your criticisms of the proposed policy stronger if you had an alternative policy in mind. As far as I can tell your criticisms are largely correct, but the new system is still probably an improvement, even if it isn't perfect.
lol, for real??
plz tell me what goes up against people having to totally change their stream behavior?
On July 11 2013 20:24 ChristianS wrote: This would be more difficult analysis to do, but wouldn't it make sense for TL to consider when someone was streaming in addition to how many viewers they had? 500 viewers at 5 AM is not equal to 500 viewers in prime viewing hours. Even if you didn't go the extra mile to account for streams occurring at the same time as major tournaments, at least accounting for different times of day could help ensure TL staff is seeing the full picture when deciding whether to feature a streamer. If two North American streamers have similar appeal, but one tends to stream at 6 PM PST and the other at 5 AM PST, the viewer counts will be different, but by looking at the times they usually streamed, you could easily see they are, in fact, similarly deserving of being featured.
It's kind of too bad that there's no system for only featuring someone when they're doing particular things. That is, someone's laddering stream might be a high quality stream that draws viewers and deserves to be featured; but other times when they decide to play custom games with a few of their bigger fans, you don't exactly want to discourage them from doing that, but it's also not why they're featured. Then viewer numbers during these custom game sessions could be ignored, and only numbers from their ladder sessions would actually be considered for featuring purposes. Anyone who favorited their stream would still see when they were streaming custom games, but there's not much reason to feature that.
I hope you got the memo about different timezones on our planet.
On July 16 2013 04:03 NonY wrote: Is this not open for discussion?
If you don't mind my asking, what's your solution for how featured streams should work? I guess you don't have to have one, but it would make your criticisms of the proposed policy stronger if you had an alternative policy in mind. As far as I can tell your criticisms are largely correct, but the new system is still probably an improvement, even if it isn't perfect.
lol, for real??
plz tell me what goes up against people having to totally change their stream behavior?
The new system seems to go a lot further toward having a consistently applied policy for who will and will not be featured. That means both that streamers who are not featured can know with some certainty what it would take to get featured, and streamers who are currently featured are under some pressure to maintain quality streams. At least in theory, that's a step in the right direction. Some of the incentives aren't great, but hopefully there are ways for the policy to be modified so as to reduce those effects.
On July 11 2013 20:24 ChristianS wrote: This would be more difficult analysis to do, but wouldn't it make sense for TL to consider when someone was streaming in addition to how many viewers they had? 500 viewers at 5 AM is not equal to 500 viewers in prime viewing hours. Even if you didn't go the extra mile to account for streams occurring at the same time as major tournaments, at least accounting for different times of day could help ensure TL staff is seeing the full picture when deciding whether to feature a streamer. If two North American streamers have similar appeal, but one tends to stream at 6 PM PST and the other at 5 AM PST, the viewer counts will be different, but by looking at the times they usually streamed, you could easily see they are, in fact, similarly deserving of being featured.
It's kind of too bad that there's no system for only featuring someone when they're doing particular things. That is, someone's laddering stream might be a high quality stream that draws viewers and deserves to be featured; but other times when they decide to play custom games with a few of their bigger fans, you don't exactly want to discourage them from doing that, but it's also not why they're featured. Then viewer numbers during these custom game sessions could be ignored, and only numbers from their ladder sessions would actually be considered for featuring purposes. Anyone who favorited their stream would still see when they were streaming custom games, but there's not much reason to feature that.
I hope you got the memo about different timezones on our planet.
Yes, what about them? Just because there are different timezones doesn't mean there aren't better and worse times to stream. 9AM EDT is 3PM CEST and 10PM KST. None of those are exactly ideal times. Now consider that some streamers might only appeal to particular audiences (for example, an NA streamer that has minimal European following and probably next to zero Korean following). In that case the time he or she streams would have a big impact on their viewer numbers, even though stream quality didn't change. So by considering the time he or she streams when analyzing their viewer numbers, you can prevent incentivizing them to only stream at peak hours, rather than streaming as often as possible.
On July 16 2013 04:03 NonY wrote: Is this not open for discussion?
If you don't mind my asking, what's your solution for how featured streams should work? I guess you don't have to have one, but it would make your criticisms of the proposed policy stronger if you had an alternative policy in mind. As far as I can tell your criticisms are largely correct, but the new system is still probably an improvement, even if it isn't perfect.
lol, for real??
plz tell me what goes up against people having to totally change their stream behavior?
The new system seems to go a lot further toward having a consistently applied policy for who will and will not be featured. That means both that streamers who are not featured can know with some certainty what it would take to get featured, and streamers who are currently featured are under some pressure to maintain quality streams. At least in theory, that's a step in the right direction. Some of the incentives aren't great, but hopefully there are ways for the policy to be modified so as to reduce those effects.
On July 11 2013 20:24 ChristianS wrote: This would be more difficult analysis to do, but wouldn't it make sense for TL to consider when someone was streaming in addition to how many viewers they had? 500 viewers at 5 AM is not equal to 500 viewers in prime viewing hours. Even if you didn't go the extra mile to account for streams occurring at the same time as major tournaments, at least accounting for different times of day could help ensure TL staff is seeing the full picture when deciding whether to feature a streamer. If two North American streamers have similar appeal, but one tends to stream at 6 PM PST and the other at 5 AM PST, the viewer counts will be different, but by looking at the times they usually streamed, you could easily see they are, in fact, similarly deserving of being featured.
It's kind of too bad that there's no system for only featuring someone when they're doing particular things. That is, someone's laddering stream might be a high quality stream that draws viewers and deserves to be featured; but other times when they decide to play custom games with a few of their bigger fans, you don't exactly want to discourage them from doing that, but it's also not why they're featured. Then viewer numbers during these custom game sessions could be ignored, and only numbers from their ladder sessions would actually be considered for featuring purposes. Anyone who favorited their stream would still see when they were streaming custom games, but there's not much reason to feature that.
I hope you got the memo about different timezones on our planet.
Yes, what about them? Just because there are different timezones doesn't mean there aren't better and worse times to stream. 9AM EDT is 3PM CEST and 10PM KST. None of those are exactly ideal times. Now consider that some streamers might only appeal to particular audiences (for example, an NA streamer that has minimal European following and probably next to zero Korean following). In that case the time he or she streams would have a big impact on their viewer numbers, even though stream quality didn't change. So by considering the time he or she streams when analyzing their viewer numbers, you can prevent incentivizing them to only stream at peak hours, rather than streaming as often as possible.
And what would the benefit of that be? People getting featured because they stream at "bad times" with 50 viewers?
On July 16 2013 06:29 ChristianS wrote: Just because there are different timezones doesn't mean there aren't better and worse times to stream.
Actually, there are worse times to stream. The most stream viewers come from Europe, so if you want to maximize your viewers, you stream at times that are convenient for Europeans.
On July 16 2013 04:03 NonY wrote: Is this not open for discussion?
If you don't mind my asking, what's your solution for how featured streams should work? I guess you don't have to have one, but it would make your criticisms of the proposed policy stronger if you had an alternative policy in mind. As far as I can tell your criticisms are largely correct, but the new system is still probably an improvement, even if it isn't perfect.
lol, for real??
plz tell me what goes up against people having to totally change their stream behavior?
The new system seems to go a lot further toward having a consistently applied policy for who will and will not be featured. That means both that streamers who are not featured can know with some certainty what it would take to get featured, and streamers who are currently featured are under some pressure to maintain quality streams. At least in theory, that's a step in the right direction. Some of the incentives aren't great, but hopefully there are ways for the policy to be modified so as to reduce those effects.
On July 16 2013 05:34 grs wrote:
On July 11 2013 20:24 ChristianS wrote: This would be more difficult analysis to do, but wouldn't it make sense for TL to consider when someone was streaming in addition to how many viewers they had? 500 viewers at 5 AM is not equal to 500 viewers in prime viewing hours. Even if you didn't go the extra mile to account for streams occurring at the same time as major tournaments, at least accounting for different times of day could help ensure TL staff is seeing the full picture when deciding whether to feature a streamer. If two North American streamers have similar appeal, but one tends to stream at 6 PM PST and the other at 5 AM PST, the viewer counts will be different, but by looking at the times they usually streamed, you could easily see they are, in fact, similarly deserving of being featured.
It's kind of too bad that there's no system for only featuring someone when they're doing particular things. That is, someone's laddering stream might be a high quality stream that draws viewers and deserves to be featured; but other times when they decide to play custom games with a few of their bigger fans, you don't exactly want to discourage them from doing that, but it's also not why they're featured. Then viewer numbers during these custom game sessions could be ignored, and only numbers from their ladder sessions would actually be considered for featuring purposes. Anyone who favorited their stream would still see when they were streaming custom games, but there's not much reason to feature that.
I hope you got the memo about different timezones on our planet.
Yes, what about them? Just because there are different timezones doesn't mean there aren't better and worse times to stream. 9AM EDT is 3PM CEST and 10PM KST. None of those are exactly ideal times. Now consider that some streamers might only appeal to particular audiences (for example, an NA streamer that has minimal European following and probably next to zero Korean following). In that case the time he or she streams would have a big impact on their viewer numbers, even though stream quality didn't change. So by considering the time he or she streams when analyzing their viewer numbers, you can prevent incentivizing them to only stream at peak hours, rather than streaming as often as possible.
And what would the benefit of that be? People getting featured because they stream at "bad times" with 50 viewers?
The benefit being that people who could draw good viewer numbers by streaming at good times can stream at bad times without hurting their chances of being featured. As Nony has been pointing out on the last few pages, it would be bad to discourage people from streaming at bad times because they won't have as many viewers and their average viewer count goes down.
Example: Bob only streams a couple hours a day at peak hours, and pulls 1500 viewers whenever he does. As such he has an average viewer count of 1500, and he stands a good chance of getting featured. If he decides to stream 8 hours a day, a 2 hour session during prime time that pulls 1500 viewers and a 6 hour session late at night that pulls 400 viewers, then his average viewer count is under 700 viewers. If it weren't for the Featured Streams list he wouldn't mind streaming for the smaller number of viewers, but because he wants to get featured he needs a high average viewer count, so he decides against streaming more often, and anyone who was wanting to watch streams during that time is out of luck.
That is exactly my concern with this new proposed emphasis on the average viewer count. The number of hours per streamer will decrease as they will be so incentivized to stream ONLY during prime time.
On July 16 2013 06:29 ChristianS wrote: Just because there are different timezones doesn't mean there aren't better and worse times to stream.
Actually, there are worse times to stream. The most stream viewers come from Europe, so if you want to maximize your viewers, you stream at times that are convenient for Europeans.
I've been streaming for 2 years and this statement 100% accurate.
i rly wonder how long its need to feature Hui's Stream, often he has like 800+ viewers. Right now as example there are 8 featured streams and only dragon has more viewers then hui xD
It's been over a month since the proposed changes and, frankly, I don't see much change. As Drake stated, there are some streamers with many more viewers than those who are now featured and, to be honest, I haven't seen any "results" from them as far as tournaments.
Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
edit: It's Sep 1st. looks like they haven't updated their feature streamer list yet.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
The changes have only partially taken effect, in the sense that there's still a lot of people that should be featured but aren't. You're not alone. There's casters yet to be featured (OGamingTV and EmpireZerg - I'm looking at the sidebar right now and both have over 1k viewers), as well as people who play other games but have been heavily involved in the community in the past (Trump's been getting massive amounts of viewers since Hearthstone beta, he'd probably be the highest viewed stream most of the time, Jaedong/Grubby/etc notwithstanding; and then there's Testie who for some reason gets no love even though he's usually over 1k as well...)
But good luck getting anyone to do or say anything, it seems TL continue to be very ambiguous and scarce with their messages on this topic lol.
On September 02 2013 05:09 Denzil wrote: this is the wrong thread to go about this anyway
Well it's not like actions are being taken or answers being given in this thread either. ;p
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
My impression is that they haven't implemented a lot of the changes talked about in this post yet. I don't see any harm in PMing, posting here, etc. to try and get featured. You want to make streaming your job, so it makes sense to be persistent and follow-up the way you would trying for any other job. For my taste, it would seem preferable to take the line of "I think I'm really qualified and I'd like to be considered for featured streamer," rather than the more aggressive "I'm clearly qualified, and I can't understand why TL hasn't featured me yet."
But if Team Liquid considers your case, and for whatever reason tells you they're not going to feature you, at that point you'll need to back off a bit, even though you haven't achieved your goal.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Well judging from that top 50 streaming thread you get 295 concurrent viewers as your average (note average, you may have peaked at 800/1300, but your average is still 295). Unless I am mistaken they want an average of about 800 concurrent viewers to get featured without tournament results. With tournament results you will get featured easier. Maybe they want 400 average, no idea either way I know they want higher then 295.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Don't come in here and try to spread out your avilo hate propoganda please. This thread is about featuring streamers and their stream policy.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Don't come in here and try to spread out your avilo hate propoganda please. This thread is about featuring streamers and their stream policy.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Sad that hypocritical people like you exist and oblivious to their own actions This type of thing gets you punched in the face.
The featured streamer policy has nothing to do with manners on ladder, I'd say that avilo's BM only makes his stream more entertaining and engaging. They set a policy, they're not doing what they said they would do, more likely they just haven't budgeted the time to make the changes to the featured streamer list.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Don't come in here and try to spread out your avilo hate propoganda please. This thread is about featuring streamers and their stream policy.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
don't start it yourself
I think it would be nice if someone on the staff came out and said something, anything at all, for a change.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Sad that hypocritical people like you exist and oblivious to their own actions This type of thing gets you punched in the face.
The featured streamer policy has nothing to do with manners on ladder, I'd say that avilo's BM only makes his stream more entertaining and engaging. They set a policy, they're not doing what they said they would do, more likely they just haven't budgeted the time to make the changes to the featured streamer list.
I'm am pretty sure if TL does not want feature someone, they can opt not to do so. They are guidelines, not laws set in stone. If other things factor in, then TL has the ability not not feature someone.
On September 02 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote: I'm am pretty sure if TL does not want feature someone, they can opt not to do so. They are guidelines, not laws set in stone. If other things factor in, then TL has the ability not not feature someone.
So you are saying that if a person meets the criteria and isn't liked by the administrators they wont be given the same rights/privileges as others (more favoured to administrators). I thought this site was about the community, and the community does not have uniform preferences pertaining to streamers.
I'm not a fan, but clearly avilo could average 1k+ viewers and never be featured because the powers that be don't like him. The clear path is for him to change his ID and make a new stream, call it Olivia or something. I'm only half kidding.
On September 02 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote: I'm am pretty sure if TL does not want feature someone, they can opt not to do so. They are guidelines, not laws set in stone. If other things factor in, then TL has the ability not not feature someone.
So you are saying that if a person meets the criteria and isn't liked by the administrators they wont be given the same rights/privileges as others (more favoured to administrators). I thought this site was about the community, and the community does not have uniform preferences pertaining to streamers.
I am saying that streamer the disgression of the teamliquid staff and the guidelines a short hand for the requirements. But the final decision is with the TL staff and not a check box form.
On September 02 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote: I am saying that streamer the disgression of the teamliquid staff and the guidelines a short hand for the requirements. But the final decision is with the TL staff and not a check box form.
But should personal dislike be a reason to deny a popular streamer with a moderately sized fan base from being featured? Or do you disregard person vendettas and look at the situation as a neutral party? (Ideal situation)
On September 02 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote: I am saying that streamer the disgression of the teamliquid staff and the guidelines a short hand for the requirements. But the final decision is with the TL staff and not a check box form.
But should personal dislike be a reason to deny a popular streamer with a moderately sized fan base from being featured? Or do you disregard person vendettas and look at the situation as a neutral party? (Ideal situation)
Business is business. If you want to be featured on a site, it is in your best interest to be on good terms with their staff. I don't know if the TL staff has a poor relationship any specific streamer, but that relationship can be a factor. It's their site and they can feature who they want. I trust them to do it fairly.
On September 02 2013 05:05 avilo wrote: Posting requesting my stream to be featured. Something is very wrong here that I am not featured yet, I'm hitting 400 viewers every stream, and have had peaks at numbers like 850 and 1,300 viewers.
Also, oftentimes have more viewers than some of the featured streamers.
When are these stream policy changes going to take effect? Or do they only not take effect for me? This is getting really old and frustrating i am putting my heart and soul into this and still am not featured on TL despite having the fanbase, viewer counts, and a goddamn good stream.
I think the aggressive tone might not be well taken, you should have probably PMed someone a little more politely. But kudos on not spreading as much balance hate all over the place lately! :D
Of course...well then, I can only hope that they haven't updated their featured streamer list this month yet...because i've previously gone through all the PM channels I can in terms of contacting them and nothing has changed so far. It is only the start of the month...so let's see if I am on the featured list then :D
Until I see something though or am told I'm on the featured list...that's why I put my request there again because everyone knows that has seen my numbers or my stream that i deserve to be on it now.
Though numbers do not lie, people who feel entitled and BM the shit out of everyone on ladder will, of course, have a harder time getting featured. Apparently over years of posting and playing you still have not learned that simple fact. TL values this sort of ethos higher than any other gaming community as far as I know. If you want to be a part of their featured list you better make sure your contributions to it are reasonable for the amount of acclaim they'll be giving you.
Don't come in here and try to spread out your avilo hate propoganda please. This thread is about featuring streamers and their stream policy.
avilo hate propaganda.. what you bmed me the only time i did a playhem daily. i don't dislike you or whatever but i understand they don't like this kind of behavior on stream
avilo hate propaganda.. what you bmed me the only time i did a playhem daily. i don't dislike you or whatever but i understand they don't like this kind of behavior on stream
Avilo isn't the only streamer/player to have bmed someone. (including featured streamers)
On September 02 2013 12:09 Grouch wrote: I guess you're right, although I feel that personal bias should be put aside in certain situations.
It's not personal bias, it's a value judgment on if you want to deal with that person at a professional level. Let say some teamless rude, BM filled streamer gets enough views to be featured. They have to make a judgment based on passed experiences on if they want to enter that relationship with the streamer and promote them. Also they have to think how the streamer will respond if they have to remove them later due to poor stream numbers.
Professional judgment is just a form of personal bias.
It's not personal bias, it's a value judgment on if you want to deal with that person at a professional level. Let say some teamless rude, BM filled streamer gets enough views to be featured. They have to make a judgment based on passed experiences on if they want to enter that relationship with the streamer and promote them. Also they have to think how the streamer will respond if they have to remove them later due to poor stream numbers.
Professional judgment is just a form of personal bias.
"It's not personal bias","Professional judgment is just a form of personal bias" Okay...
"They have to make a judgment based on passed experiences" in this thread [representing present day Avilo the one which they'll be endorsing, since its a link to his stream (a live broadcast)] I have only read mature responses from Avilo.
It's not personal bias, it's a value judgment on if you want to deal with that person at a professional level. Let say some teamless rude, BM filled streamer gets enough views to be featured. They have to make a judgment based on passed experiences on if they want to enter that relationship with the streamer and promote them. Also they have to think how the streamer will respond if they have to remove them later due to poor stream numbers.
Professional judgment is just a form of personal bias.
"It's not personal bias","Professional judgment is just a form of personal bias" Okay...
"They have to make a judgment based on passed experiences" in this thread [representing present day Avilo the one which they'll be endorsing, since its a link to his stream (a live broadcast)] I have only read mature responses from Avilo.
I'm not really discussing Avilo. He will get feature or not and its up to the TL staff to discide. If Avilo has given them reason to not feature him, I am sure he is aware. I am just pointing out that vetting featured is not a check box form.
On September 02 2013 12:37 Plansix wrote: I'm not really discussing Avilo.
Well I am.
Well I don't know his real stream numbers or his real relationship with the TL staff. I can say that posting in the thread about not being featured is not the most professional way to go about contacting them to see if he makes the cut. But at the end of the day, that is between TL and Avilo. Fans can say they would like him featured, which is helpful for him. But we really don't know what his relationship is with the TL staff as a whole.
On September 02 2013 12:50 Plansix wrote: Well I don't know his real stream numbers or his real relationship with the TL staff. I can say that posting in the thread about not being featured is not the most professional way to go about contacting them to see if he makes the cut. But at the end of the day, that is between TL and Avilo. Fans can say they would like him featured, which is helpful for him. But we really don't know what his relationship is with the TL staff as a whole.
On the topic of viewers, at this time he is surpassing 3 featured SC2 streams; two in the StarCraft 2 tab, and one in the Other Notable Streams tab.
On September 02 2013 12:50 Plansix wrote: Well I don't know his real stream numbers or his real relationship with the TL staff. I can say that posting in the thread about not being featured is not the most professional way to go about contacting them to see if he makes the cut. But at the end of the day, that is between TL and Avilo. Fans can say they would like him featured, which is helpful for him. But we really don't know what his relationship is with the TL staff as a whole.
On the topic of viewers, at this time he is surpassing 3 featured SC2 streams; two in the StarCraft 2 tab, and one in the Other Notable Streams tab.
Which means nothing. Its not a numbers game. One of those players is a professional player. The other is a premier caster. The only one you could make an argument for is Painuser, but he has previous relationships with TL through inside the game and IPL.
Once again, he will either get featured or he won't. Comparing the current stream numbers isn't going to prove anything, since it about average stream numbers.
Shit: 1,0000. I have become one with the internet.
On September 02 2013 12:50 Plansix wrote: Well I don't know his real stream numbers or his real relationship with the TL staff. I can say that posting in the thread about not being featured is not the most professional way to go about contacting them to see if he makes the cut. But at the end of the day, that is between TL and Avilo. Fans can say they would like him featured, which is helpful for him. But we really don't know what his relationship is with the TL staff as a whole.
On the topic of viewers, at this time he is surpassing 3 featured SC2 streams; two in the StarCraft 2 tab, and one in the Other Notable Streams tab.
Which means nothing. Its not a numbers game. One of those players is a professional player. The other is a premier caster. The only one you could make an argument for is Painuser, but he has previous relationships with TL through inside the game and IPL.
Once again, he will either get featured or he won't. Comparing the current stream numbers isn't going to prove anything, since it about average stream numbers.
On September 02 2013 13:04 Grouch wrote: I dont really know where you got premier caster from seeing as I put one player from the Other Notable Streams tab.
He had higher numbers than ROOTerdaM when you posted. That has since changed.
On September 02 2013 13:04 Grouch wrote: I dont really know where you got premier caster from seeing as I put one player from the Other Notable Streams tab.
He had higher numbers than ROOTerdaM when you posted. That has since changed.
On July 07 2013 08:30 intense555 wrote: Feature avilo! Also feature ClarityBails, he was challenger league last season. Neeb too.
Please not avilo...
Not to player bash, but that player has had more problems on TL.net, SotG, etc. etc. than almost anyone else. He's a master at pissing people off and getting into ragefests.
Man, doesn't the hating on avilo and ProTech get old? OK, they BM a lot. So does PucK, HuK, and IdrA. Both of these players allow for a more diverse player base here on TL, which I thought a PC-obsessed TL.net would love. They have decent viewership and make people look at the game in a different way. P.S. "Not to X" makes you sound incredibly fake.
For those of you who claim that avilo is so "BM" I will have to say that you are basing your opinions on either hearsay or the distant past. Frankly, I agree with Komentaja - "It's getting old." Avilo is far from BM in comparison to some of the streamers I've watched.
Granted, it's TLs decision to feature or not; however, that decision (from what I've observed) is extremely biased. One example was referring avilo's viewers to the "Featured Streamers" thread when they asked "How can we help to get him featured?" The modbot had a link (along with many other links to TL, Twitter, FB, etc.) to the site and when viewers posted their wishes, (some first-timers who had never considered registering with TL before) a mod told them to stop and told avilo to stop linking that site on his stream. And so TLs wishes were respected, despite the fact that seemed rather unfair. Avilo's viewers are now referred to his stream thread and when they ask why they can't post in the "Featured Streamer" thread, they are told that TL will not allow them to. Slightly, biased?
Anyway, I've learned from experience, it's not what you know, but who you know.
On September 03 2013 02:10 Arkansassy wrote: For those of you who claim that avilo is so "BM" I will have to say that you are basing your opinions on either hearsay or the distant past. Frankly, I agree with Komentaja - "It's getting old." Avilo is far from BM in comparison to some of the streamers I've watched.
Granted, it's TLs decision to feature or not; however, that decision (from what I've observed) is extremely biased. One example was referring avilo's viewers to the "Featured Streamers" thread when they asked "How can we help to get him featured?" The modbot had a link (along with many other links to TL, Twitter, FB, etc.) to the site and when viewers posted their wishes, (some first-timers who had never considered registering with TL before) a mod told them to stop and told avilo to stop linking that site on his stream. And so TLs wishes were respected, despite the fact that seemed rather unfair. Avilo's viewers are now referred to his stream thread and when they ask why they can't post in the "Featured Streamer" thread, they are told that TL will not allow them to. Slightly, biased?
Anyway, I've learned from experience, it's not what you know, but who you know.
How about he just gets into WCS so then it's forced to be featured.
Double post inc. As much as I like to troll avilo and co... he does deserve to be featured. He's on fucking forever. Plays a niche style. Has a load of zealous viewers.
Get rid of freakin' fitzyhere who has like 1 viewer....why the hell is he featured.
On September 09 2013 03:07 iAmJeffReY wrote: Double post inc. As much as I like to troll avilo and co... he does deserve to be featured. He's on fucking forever. Plays a niche style. Has a load of zealous viewers.
Get rid of freakin' fitzyhere who has like 1 viewer....why the hell is he featured.
The fact that Dragon, an admitted cheater and consistent troll, remains featured is the biggest reason why I can't argue against Avilo being featured. That kid was featured when most of what he did on streams was just troll bronze league. Anywho~ the case against Avilo being featured doesn't seem very strong outside of "we just don't like the guy so..." Then again, the deciders at TL not liking you is usually terminal for your success in e-sports. Doesn't get much stronger than that.
I would like to put a request for SouLSSanaEE to be featured, a really good zerg player on SouL who interacts a lot with the chat . The policy states that a way to qualify to a feature is to be in any region's WCS system. SSanaEE got into challenger league thanks to the second AM qualifier round some days ago. As such is it possible to get him featured.
We require a fairly high average viewer count before considering adding streams that do not meet WCS requirements (or are an appropriate fit for other). While you may have gotten a 500 viewer peak, your average sits at 173. For instance, Ms.Spyte is sitting around 1k average unfeatured right now, she is at the top of the list in terms of consideration for being added. There are also a few other unfeatured streams who maintain better averages than you, who also are higher on the priority list that you. If you are looking to make a case for being featured then aim for the top 50 streams. If you get on that list (not just the viewers*hours rating) let us know and we may reconsider our position.
Hello...another month has passed...i'm requesting to be featured again! In the last month I hit around a 2,200 viewer peak (incredibly high for an unfeatured stream) as well as made the top 50 streamer list here (both lists):
As well as moved very high up the second top 50 list for hours streamed per month, which shows I am putting in a lot of hard work and good hours into streaming and am in this long term.
I now have a subscriber button on my stream from twitch.tv as well, as they've recognized my rapidly growing stream and high viewer counts. My viewer counts often times are matching and exceeding other currently featured streamers as well.
On October 02 2013 01:40 Plansix wrote: It's almost like Avilo is completely unaware that the PM feature exists. Or email. Or any other mode of private communication.
I've already gone through that route, and the last time I get no response...sorta silly to insinuate i have not already done that previously plansix -_-
edit: Good idea though (I will PM plexa tho, another person I PM'd before never gives me a response or any information).
If grandmaster is all it takes, put Hendralisk on that list. He streams once a year or so. WCG canada representative twice, high GM on NA and EU, beats pros and KR pros alike.
Not to mention I just love the little fucker.
Jokes aside, get him to stream more, then feature him.
On October 02 2013 01:40 Plansix wrote: It's almost like Avilo is completely unaware that the PM feature exists. Or email. Or any other mode of private communication.
Seems to me it's a discussion worth having in public.
On October 02 2013 01:40 Plansix wrote: It's almost like Avilo is completely unaware that the PM feature exists. Or email. Or any other mode of private communication.
Seems to me it's a discussion worth having in public.
Relationships between a streamer and the people running a website are best done in private. Like all business relationships. Unless your plan is to rile up you fan base and fuel alittle drama. Then public is the better approach for that. Might not improve your relationship with the website however.
On October 02 2013 01:40 Plansix wrote: It's almost like Avilo is completely unaware that the PM feature exists. Or email. Or any other mode of private communication.
Seems to me it's a discussion worth having in public.
Relationships between a streamer and the people running a website are best done in private. Like all business relationships. Unless your plan is to rile up you fan base and fuel alittle drama. Then public is the better approach for that. Might not improve your relationship with the website however.
In private? So noted. You might want to pass that info on to these other streamers who in the last month have posted requests in public to be featured in the previous Feature Streamer thread:
But I understand how it can get to a point where featuring avilo might come to be not just a victory for him but a "defeat" for TL so don't expect drama from his fans. It's impossible, however, to watch his stream and see some of the best SC2 games being played *anywhere* and not get riled up.
Just one last point before I go:
OP wrote: Have an extraordinary amount of viewers on your own merits. This doesn't happen often but occasionally people will grow their stream to have several hundred viewers at all times and this is worth consideration.
(For the curious, the max spike was avilo defeating EGXenocider in that month's ZOTAC Cup tournament. I believe the 1.5k spike was avilo defeating FXOLucky in a ZOTAC weekend tourney.)
On October 02 2013 01:40 Plansix wrote: It's almost like Avilo is completely unaware that the PM feature exists. Or email. Or any other mode of private communication.
Seems to me it's a discussion worth having in public.
Relationships between a streamer and the people running a website are best done in private. Like all business relationships. Unless your plan is to rile up you fan base and fuel alittle drama. Then public is the better approach for that. Might not improve your relationship with the website however.
In private? So noted. You might want to pass that info on to these other streamers who in the last month have posted requests in public to be featured in the previous Feature Streamer thread:
But I understand how it can get to a point where featuring avilo might come to be not just a victory for him but a "defeat" for TL so don't expect drama from his fans. It's impossible, however, to watch his stream and see some of the best SC2 games being played *anywhere* and not get riled up.
uThermal & Pet qualified for challenger- which entitles them to be featured. 1 of those only wanted to be "listed"(not featured) and 1 is a team league. (idk about wbc)
i've never watched avilo so idk if he deserves it or not (stats seem to say yes?) but you might wanna check your examples.
well i guess its clear that it would be a "defeat" for TL to feature avilo. pretty sad really they are so biased. idra and huk are waaay more bm than he is...
On October 05 2013 02:07 Xor. wrote: well i guess its clear that it would be a "defeat" for TL to feature avilo. pretty sad really they are so biased. idra and huk are waaay more bm than he is...
To be fair, IdrA and Huk didn't reach their level of success by being bm – they did it by being really good at Starcraft. Obviously if avilo were to win a tournament or become competitive in WCS this would be a non-issue.
Do people have any particular reason to believe TL has a vendetta against avilo and is determined to stop him from being featured? For all we know they're still assessing possible new featured streamers. Did Ms.Spyte ever get featured? She's on my favorites so she shows up for me anyway
Hey, do we post here if we are requesting to be featured? I've been 300+ viewers for a bit now when I stream and I was just wondering if that's enough. Thanks for your response! I'm not really a tournament man right now I just like to ladder and make guides to help people.
Hello, I'd like to become a featured streamer. My name is Wojciech "funkay" Komincz, 22 years old, GM EU Terran from Poland, got partnership with twitch.tv, streaming pretty often nowadays, already having 100,000+ channel views and 500+ followers
On October 08 2013 19:50 funkay wrote: Hello, I'd like to become a featured streamer. My name is Wojciech "funkay" Komincz, 22 years old, GM EU Terran from Poland, got partnership with twitch.tv, streaming pretty often nowadays, already having 100,000+ channel views and 500+ followers
I have an idea that I feel would benefit the community. If this is covered already and I have over looked it I'm sorry. Would it be possible to have a list of live streams of community led clan wars? I know my clan and several others stream our clan wars. Many of these feature high master and some grandmaster players. I'm not sure how hard this would be to implement but I feel it's worth considering.
Hey, idk where to PM this but I'd like to ask that you guys feature HTOMario on the front page with all the other streamers. He's a really good guy who has an interesting and unique play style and he's really helpful he has a ton of great guides to play differently for an otherwise stale Terran race. I'm sure if a lot more people knew about him he could leave an even larger positive impact on the community.
hi :D my fan is all Thank you I Think so lucky i think Solar is Best zerg he is love roach i think very hardgame :D he 4th game is mutalcontrol very Good 4thgame im so rage :D http://www.twitch.tv/tassadarfou My stream link TL is not featured TT i want featured Thank for LYGF and sc2replaystats.com follow us @LYGFsc2 and www.facebook.com/LoveYourGirlfriend :D
Balloon should definitely be featured. He's one of the best English speaking korean players I've seen. He's constantly interacting with his viewers and joking around. Very funny stream and deserves more attention
What are the requirements to get listed under the organization section? We (http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv) have been involved with almost every major event (including WCS), consistently have high numbers, and are regularly hosting our own events.
On August 01 2014 07:59 davesan wrote: any idea when the featured streamers will be updated? would be good to get all the new challenger players featured ^^
I already posted in a different thread, but I don't know which one is active:
(Former?) KT MyuNgSik started streaming today. He's regularly in the GSL Code S and I think he should be featured. He's looking for a new team apparently.
Hello. We would like to request a featured link on the side bar for streaming. We are constantly offering StarCraft 2 content from popular streamers to tournaments. We always have several hundred viewers every time we broadcast.
I think you should seriously consider adding Lowko to the featured streamers. He has been streaming for many years, has quite a big following and has an educational and interactive stream. He also does live coaching and makes tutorial videos to YouTube. He might not be a major tournament winner but I'm sure that the educational aspect would be very helpful to many people.
I would like to request that the stream of former KT Rolster Terran Miso be featured, he is streaming for the first time and wants to be a regular daily streamer and to find a team.
I would like to request that the stream of former KT Rolster Terran Miso be featured, he is streaming for the first time and wants to be a regular daily streamer and to find a team.
never really heard of miso before seeing this post but he's pretty damn good even his off races is nice(master on kr so damn good) hope this guy can get more views and a team nice find.
EPT
Lowko
