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[BarCraft] Has been removed from StarCraft II - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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iyasq8
Profile Joined December 2012
113 Posts
June 16 2013 01:21 GMT
#41
arent game ideas ok to copy? u know, like tetris?
Piece
kckkryptonite
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1126 Posts
June 16 2013 01:23 GMT
#42
On June 16 2013 10:11 Daumen wrote:
Was actually the best map available on the Arcade.


It really was -.-;
RIP avilo, qxc keyboard 2013, RIP Nathanis keyboard 2014
chilled
Profile Joined June 2013
China2 Posts
June 16 2013 03:53 GMT
#43
On June 16 2013 00:50 R1CH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 17:04 Herper wrote:
So how similar is this "Bang!" game to your BarCraft game?

The map was pretty much 100% Bang! mechanics with name changes.

Do you have played the game, can you say 100%, that's real lie.
xiamen
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 04:03:19
June 16 2013 03:59 GMT
#44
On June 16 2013 10:21 iyasq8 wrote:
arent game ideas ok to copy? u know, like tetris?

Game ideas are OK to copy ex. Starcraft, Dune, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Modern warfare, Battlefield, etc.
That said, Tetris is specifically not a copyrighted (or at least originally wasn't copyrighted) game that was in public domain (something about the Soviet government owning it or or something, I can't remember and don't really care), so it's not a good example. The name Tetris can indeed be used for a brick laying arcade puzzle game (unless someone does own a claim on it now or something), but for instance using Starcraft characters by name in an RTS would be IP infringement.
On June 16 2013 07:52 Nerski wrote:
Maybe in the future if you don't want to have your work go to waste, you do this new hip thing all the kids are doing. You sit down with your team and you come up with your own idea from scratch, and build that into a product. If that's to much investment in time for you then quit bothering to make things.

No. That's ridiculous. No one in the game industry is suing anyone over making FPS (or racing, or fighting) games, and there's hundreds out there (many very similar ones). The fact that a game is similar to another has virtually no claim that I know of for a copyright case.
Unique and innovative/original games are nice, but they shouldn't be the only games made.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
June 16 2013 04:15 GMT
#45
On June 16 2013 12:59 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2013 10:21 iyasq8 wrote:
arent game ideas ok to copy? u know, like tetris?

Game ideas are OK to copy ex. Starcraft, Dune, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Modern warfare, Battlefield, etc.
That said, Tetris is specifically not a copyrighted (or at least originally wasn't copyrighted) game that was in public domain (something about the Soviet government owning it or or something, I can't remember and don't really care), so it's not a good example. The name Tetris can indeed be used for a brick laying arcade puzzle game (unless someone does own a claim on it now or something), but for instance using Starcraft characters by name in an RTS would be IP infringement.
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2013 07:52 Nerski wrote:
Maybe in the future if you don't want to have your work go to waste, you do this new hip thing all the kids are doing. You sit down with your team and you come up with your own idea from scratch, and build that into a product. If that's to much investment in time for you then quit bothering to make things.

No. That's ridiculous. No one in the game industry is suing anyone over making FPS (or racing, or fighting) games, and there's hundreds out there (many very similar ones). The fact that a game is similar to another has virtually no claim that I know of for a copyright case.
Unique and innovative/original games are nice, but they shouldn't be the only games made.


Your example is way off base.

The idea of a card game isn't what's in question...what was brought into questions was did the game in fact 100% copy an existing card game. According to what was posted it did, which is a lot different then suing over making an FPS game.

You wouldn't see Valve sue Activision over COD, because while they are both an FPS they are not the same past that fact.

In this case it's not just that he made a card game mod, he 100% copied an existing card game and just re skinned it.

What he did would be the equivalent to me re skinning CS:GO with SC2 skins and names and calling it my own game and trying to give it away. Which is worlds different then the example you gave.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
mythandier
Profile Joined January 2011
United States828 Posts
June 16 2013 04:40 GMT
#46
This is pretty terrible. You make excellent maps. I'm sure you will be successful in future projects for other platforms.
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
June 16 2013 04:50 GMT
#47
good luck guys, too bad what happend
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
June 16 2013 04:50 GMT
#48
On June 15 2013 17:35 MonkSEA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 17:25 StatixEx wrote:
how similar is top trumps to ANY card game really? have i missed something? why they has this been removed? Copyright? When it comes to games whats the copyright ruling? Youve just made a card game with the sc2 editor . . .shoudl they take pictionary down, cos i would like to say that is a DIRECT copy of the game, then all the tower defense games go, then . . . Not getting this at all. please someone enlighten me to why this is considered copyright?


Let me just copy Magic the Gathering while just modifying the names and artwork. See the copyright there? I'm presuming Barcraft was very similar to Bang! in the same way as the aforementioned scenario. Card copyright is pretty fiddly but not all Tower Defense games are the same and not every dictionary based game is the same.


Ya.... Hex the MMO TCG game actually went and did that.. They haven't been sued. In fact they funded their MTG clone with Kickstarter as well.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
June 16 2013 05:59 GMT
#49
On June 16 2013 13:50 DonKey_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 17:35 MonkSEA wrote:
On June 15 2013 17:25 StatixEx wrote:
how similar is top trumps to ANY card game really? have i missed something? why they has this been removed? Copyright? When it comes to games whats the copyright ruling? Youve just made a card game with the sc2 editor . . .shoudl they take pictionary down, cos i would like to say that is a DIRECT copy of the game, then all the tower defense games go, then . . . Not getting this at all. please someone enlighten me to why this is considered copyright?


Let me just copy Magic the Gathering while just modifying the names and artwork. See the copyright there? I'm presuming Barcraft was very similar to Bang! in the same way as the aforementioned scenario. Card copyright is pretty fiddly but not all Tower Defense games are the same and not every dictionary based game is the same.


Ya.... Hex the MMO TCG game actually went and did that.. They haven't been sued. In fact they funded their MTG clone with Kickstarter as well.

Except it's not an exact copy. There are several similar mechanics, yes (some which are almost blatantly copied), but there are still some differing rules, the cards are not 1:1 copies, etc.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6169 Posts
June 16 2013 06:28 GMT
#50
I'm not seeing a lot of informed opinion on the legal system involved (most likely, the US system). Someone claimed your work may have infringed on theirs - Blizzard as content host removed it. I have the feeling this works pretty similarly to a DMCA take down notice. Which means, unless you have the means and motive to fight the complaint (i.e., get your lawyer) it doesn't matter. You lose by default.

How close a copy it is to whatever is irrelevant. A decent company will at least do a "smell" test, but it's not required. Doesn't matter if it's in two different venues (digital/physical).

Of course, IANAL, etc, etc, but you only have to google a little bit to find out how much the DMCA can get abused, and how much it sucks.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 07:54:18
June 16 2013 07:47 GMT
#51
On June 16 2013 15:28 felisconcolori wrote:
Of course, IANAL, etc, etc, but you only have to google a little bit to find out how much the DMCA can get abused, and how much it sucks.

Pretty much, look at how much companies can get taken down at youtube for DMCA for almost no reason.

If you had lawyers, you could probably fight this in court and win. That said, it's obviously not worth the effort.
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
June 16 2013 07:58 GMT
#52
This is sad, I rarely play any UMS maps or anything else that isn't 1v1 for that matter, but I played this map a lot. I hate how companies and laws can get so rough and ruin enjoyment for people. Unless there is an official online version of Bang! I am unaware of, it seems really mean of them to rally to take this down.
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 08:27:17
June 16 2013 08:25 GMT
#53
On June 16 2013 14:59 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2013 13:50 DonKey_ wrote:
On June 15 2013 17:35 MonkSEA wrote:
On June 15 2013 17:25 StatixEx wrote:
how similar is top trumps to ANY card game really? have i missed something? why they has this been removed? Copyright? When it comes to games whats the copyright ruling? Youve just made a card game with the sc2 editor . . .shoudl they take pictionary down, cos i would like to say that is a DIRECT copy of the game, then all the tower defense games go, then . . . Not getting this at all. please someone enlighten me to why this is considered copyright?


Let me just copy Magic the Gathering while just modifying the names and artwork. See the copyright there? I'm presuming Barcraft was very similar to Bang! in the same way as the aforementioned scenario. Card copyright is pretty fiddly but not all Tower Defense games are the same and not every dictionary based game is the same.


Ya.... Hex the MMO TCG game actually went and did that.. They haven't been sued. In fact they funded their MTG clone with Kickstarter as well.

Except it's not an exact copy. There are several similar mechanics, yes (some which are almost blatantly copied), but there are still some differing rules, the cards are not 1:1 copies, etc.

I understand that this is not an exact copy either though. I would also argue that the Hex game system (not all the MMO aspect with PVE) is more blatantly "inspired". Plus Hex is a for profit game, where as this game seeks no profit? from what I understand.

At the end of the day though I suppose Hex would be more ready to fight a legal battle than these developers.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
phuzi0n
Profile Joined April 2010
United States308 Posts
June 16 2013 08:37 GMT
#54
I have no remorse for you after tricking me into thinking this was about real barcraft with beer.
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
June 16 2013 09:18 GMT
#55
On June 16 2013 17:37 phuzi0n wrote:
I have no remorse for you after tricking me into thinking this was about real barcraft with beer.


You missed out on a good game then
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 09:46:02
June 16 2013 09:45 GMT
#56
On June 16 2013 13:15 Nerski wrote:
The idea of a card game isn't what's in question...what was brought into questions was did the game in fact 100% copy an existing card game. According to what was posted it did, which is a lot different then suing over making an FPS game.

You wouldn't see Valve sue Activision over COD, because while they are both an FPS they are not the same past that fact.

In this case it's not just that he made a card game mod, he 100% copied an existing card game and just re skinned it.
I think over the years there have been some pretty serious copies of games: breakout, pacman, space invaders, Doom/Wolfenstien, Diablo, Bejewled, DotA (i.e. DotA2/LoL/HoN/BAS/others),Guitar hero/DDR, Puzzle Bobble/Bust-A-move, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pac-Man_clones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_clone

I'm glad Bejeweled came to my head. Bejewled is a prime example here. Blizzard themselves made Starjeweled and ripped off bejeweled entirely. All they did was add-in SC2 units fighting each other to it, but kept the Bejeweled part identical.

While I personally don't know how similar Bang! is to Barcraft, I can only assume there are minor, or even significant changes/additions such as new cards or balance changes. I'd say that's all that's necessary to completely throw out any copyright — if any changes are even necessary at all aside from the fact it's a different form of media, not for commercial gain, and not using any artwork/names.


What he did would be the equivalent to me re skinning CS:GO with SC2 skins and names and calling it my own game and trying to give it away. Which is worlds different then the example you gave.
I'm pretty sure people have essentially done this in gaming history and have gotten away with it (at least for non-commercial games such as this case). In your example SC2 skins and names couldn't be used though, because that'd be infringing on Blizzard IP, but if the skins were unique then no issue.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 09:51:05
June 16 2013 09:48 GMT
#57
On June 16 2013 04:36 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2013 03:48 Sumadin wrote:
It seems they do have a case for their copyright demands.
How does it seem that way?
Their demands are absurd and baseless.

I don't think you can claim copyright infringement just because a game is similar to another. It's pretty damn clear-cut AFAIK. Blizzard is an experienced and rich (full of legal staff) organization that should know this.
I don't know what exactly they're worried about. As far as I understand, if litigation was to occur, at least in Italy (and possibly in USA) the winning side will have all their legal fees paid for by the loosing side. Since Blizzard should know that they couldn't lose a case, there's no reason why they should back down, since the Creators of Bang! will only be shooting themselves in the foot since they'll be losing not only their own legal fees worth of funds, but also their opponent's.

Maybe my view is incorrect/skewed, but from what I've seen and heard, I don't see how there's any legitimacy to their demand or a case, and I would certainly like to hear an explanation of otherwise.

And you pull all that out of where? Yeeea ...
If its a rip-off from a trademarked and copyrighted game then why the hell they should be allowed to publish it?
People seem to live in some sort of dellusional dreamland or something.

On June 16 2013 18:45 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2013 13:15 Nerski wrote:
The idea of a card game isn't what's in question...what was brought into questions was did the game in fact 100% copy an existing card game. According to what was posted it did, which is a lot different then suing over making an FPS game.

You wouldn't see Valve sue Activision over COD, because while they are both an FPS they are not the same past that fact.

In this case it's not just that he made a card game mod, he 100% copied an existing card game and just re skinned it.
I think over the years there have been some pretty serious copies of games: breakout, pacman, space invaders, Doom/Wolfenstien, Diablo, Bejewled, DotA (i.e. DotA2/LoL/HoN/BAS/others),Guitar hero/DDR, Puzzle Bobble/Bust-A-move, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pac-Man_clones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_clone

I'm glad Bejeweled came to my head. Bejewled is a prime example here. Blizzard themselves made Starjeweled and ripped off bejeweled entirely. All they did was add-in SC2 units fighting each other to it, but kept the Bejeweled part identical.

While I personally don't know how similar Bang! is to Barcraft, I can only assume there are minor, or even significant changes/additions such as new cards or balance changes. I'd say that's all that's necessary to completely throw out any copyright — if any changes are even necessary at all aside from the fact it's a different form of media, not for commercial gain, and not using any artwork/names.

Show nested quote +

What he did would be the equivalent to me re skinning CS:GO with SC2 skins and names and calling it my own game and trying to give it away. Which is worlds different then the example you gave.
I'm pretty sure people have essentially done this in gaming history and have gotten away with it (at least for non-commercial games such as this case). In your example SC2 skins and names couldn't be used though, because that'd be infringing on Blizzard IP, but if the skins were unique then no issue.

Bejeweled is completly different to Starjeweled.
Most of the games you list are games which are mant to be a clone but have either the approval from the copyright owner or their whole goal was to rip-off a game but NOT interfere with any copyrighted stuff...
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 09:50:52
June 16 2013 09:49 GMT
#58
"Bang!" is a really cool card game that I own and have played many times. The mod does look really similar.

And didn't Blizzard register the trademark "BarCraft" also?

Oh well. All the best anyway.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 10:17:48
June 16 2013 10:17 GMT
#59
On June 16 2013 18:48 bluQ wrote:
Bejeweled is completly different to Starjeweled.
how?
It's entirely the same game just with the addition of the extra feature of units fighting. Addition of mechanics doesn't change the fact that the copied mechanics is the same.
Most of the games you list are games which are mant to be a clone but have either the approval from the copyright owner or their whole goal was to rip-off a game but NOT interfere with any copyrighted stuff...

Yeah and Barcraft isn't interfering with any copyrighted stuff. Barcraft is not using any names or art that Bang! uses; That is what copyright of games covers.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
schimmetje
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1104 Posts
June 16 2013 10:19 GMT
#60
Blizzard has a good relationship with Popcap, it's safe to assume neither of their hommages'd have been put in (PvZ in WoW) without their approval.

They're also a US company having to comply with US law. Yeah they could fight this for their "developers" (not to downplay your work, but this is anyone who owns SC2 basically), but just blindly doing that, especially in a contentious instance as this, leaves them open on both ends. Even then I'm pretty sure they'd have to take it down first anyway. Sucks, but that's a problem they didn't cause.
Change to MY nostalgia? UNACCEPTABLE! Monkey paaaw!
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