EPTWas the second spore crawler buff worth it? - Page 5
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willstertben
427 Posts
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
On June 09 2013 03:44 willstertben wrote: well if you're far ahead you can kill them with baneling allins if they play something hydra based or just take more bases and get infestors to try and fungal their mutas if they spam mutas so at least there is something you can do if you don't want to sit there for another 10 minutes. That's true. I exaggerated a bit. I'm just saying this doesn't really solve the muta problem. If they don't go muta's I just use them to deny the third, keep map control, and transition to ground. The same as I would before the Spore buff. So I just don't really see what this buff solves. | ||
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synd
Bulgaria586 Posts
On June 08 2013 23:18 Gben592 wrote: Well, in ZvP think Blizzard is hoping that the players just get on with it and learn how to deal with mutas, rather than have the players ask Blizzard to make the game easier to deal with their own inadequacies. The spore patch was mainly about making the matchup more diverse, thus more entertaining to watch. + I think map control and harass potential is the whole idea... The problem is that the mutas were already good harass units and overall good units. However as they are now - they can be mass 1 unit army. I think that is not how they should be. And there isn't really a way to deal with them. Zergs at high lvls do a lot of tech switches and no matter how much you try to use hallucinations, they can always hide a spire below an overlord spreading creep somewhere on the map. It's just up to the zerg, how clever he can be to hide the spire. As it is now, unless you have 3 stargates up and running, you're dead to mutas. | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
People don't like muta/ling because its way too hard to do, the control is hard and the better player always wins, with roach fests the lesser player can take some games off the much higher skilled player with some luck. So to me it seems like roach/hydra is preferred because people don't want to play muta/ling because its harder to control and requires skill, and Blizzard are clueless about balancing and making a game, so they will make it more noob friendly and more boring to watch. | ||
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Jevity
United States67 Posts
On June 09 2013 01:48 saddaromma wrote: buffing spores was one of few things that I liked from blizzard. They should be buffing more static defenses, afterall sc2 is a strategy game, not a micro-battle crazy shit. Any RTS game should encourage positional and thoughtful play. Not the game of who a-masses more mutas or roaches. Giving spinecrawlers same bonus but removing root/unroot ability would be great change. Root/unroot gimmick should be removed from the game, its just a cool feature, has no strategic element whatsoever. Trolling? Crazy micro is what an element that makes starcraft amazing. Root/unroot is not a gimmick, it's just something that makes zerg what it is and it doesn't take away from strategy, if anything it adds to zerg, making it more dynamic. Static defenses are good, they should always be part of the game, Blizzard just needs to make sure that they don't buff something so much that it completely negates another player's advances by placing just one spore crawler. Like someone in the thread said earlier, it is somewhat interesting how you can still micro phoenix's around and score some kills even if there are spores down. You would want muta to be somewhat viable even if there were spores down. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On June 08 2013 20:46 ThatGuyDoMo wrote: I would argue muta vs muta has a lower skill ceiling and gave lower level skill players a higher chance of beating somebody better than them due to the predictability / simplicity of the style when compared to roach hydra infestor micro / teching / remaxing. what roach hydra micro. lings are harder to control, this much is obvious. they're smaller units (harder to box groups of them), faster, and groups of them die instnatly to banes. and the entire matchup is much more delicate. roach hydra micro is just a move, and hug your opponent while stutter stepping when you have the advantage. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Agreed. It will take a while for new builds to be developed, and we may yet see a return to Muta play. The change may have been an overly powerful one, but on the whole it looks to have been the right one. The whining by (sections of) the community is typical. More evidence that Blizzard should follow their current philosophy of patching lightly but, ultimately, as they see fit. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On June 08 2013 20:46 ThatGuyDoMo wrote: I would argue muta vs muta has a lower skill ceiling and gave lower level skill players a higher chance of beating somebody better than them due to the predictability / simplicity of the style when compared to roach hydra infestor micro / teching / remaxing. Muta vs muta was really zergling vs zergling, and lings are really one of zerg's skill units. the game would end when one player got a mutalisk lead, but he gained the advantages with his zerglings. what if they pulled back to 4-shot mutalisks instead of 3. 15+22 or something (15+15 ended up being 5 shots because of regen) I really dislike the patch, Muta vs Muta at least kept the matchup logical and straight forward, now its back to random builds and timings zvz wasn't only random builds and timings at the end of wol. It seemed to play out pretty consistently with both sides using lings and banelings to defend while getting 3rd base and going into roach. just because its based on roaches doesn't mean it has to be random, does it? | ||
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
On June 09 2013 03:48 Foreplay wrote: That's true. I exaggerated a bit. I'm just saying this doesn't really solve the muta problem. If they don't go muta's I just use them to deny the third, keep map control, and transition to ground. The same as I would before the Spore buff. So I just don't really see what this buff solves. You can't see what it solves? I don't know what league you're in, but if you watch the pro-level ZvZ it was all about Muta vs Muta balls, never anything else as everything else was to immobile to deal with the mutas, now with the spore buff mutas can be defended a lot easier with an immobile army, allowing for a larger pool of diverse play. | ||
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lue
Sweden27 Posts
On June 08 2013 23:37 Bagi wrote: Hydras are already very strong in a straight up fight against bio. No bio terran would be able to hold a 2/2 timing with buffed hydras, not to even mention the fact that it would also buff roach/hydra against hellbats and thus mech. Also a buff against zealots, further complicating things... Luckily you aren't on the balance team. it'd also increase damage against HTs and DTs, but considering how cheap hellbats are, I dont mind them taking some additional damage from hydras. Couldn't do much about the zealot ofcourse but thats just a sideeffect I'd have to live with. | ||
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iyasq8
113 Posts
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
On June 09 2013 05:31 MonkSEA wrote: You can't see what it solves? I don't know what league you're in, but if you watch the pro-level ZvZ it was all about Muta vs Muta balls, never anything else as everything else was to immobile to deal with the mutas, now with the spore buff mutas can be defended a lot easier with an immobile army, allowing for a larger pool of diverse play. Mutas don't have to do damage directly to be good. If you are doing a speedling into muta build you have map control for the entire early/early-mid game. All you have to do is deny the third which still makes the muta player have a huge advantage. This is my theory anyway. I haven't watched a lot of pro zvz's since patch. As for my rank, I am mid-masters (so i understand that i am no authority on starcraft.) But I think after pros stop experimenting we are going to see the game swing back towards muta play, regardless of how much damage spore crawlers do. | ||
Waxangel
United States33513 Posts
that said it's still by far the least tolerable match-up to watch  | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
On June 09 2013 01:47 Penev wrote: Kerrigan is doing a piss poor job evolving the swarm imo; The Overmind would turn in his grave.. She's running out of ideas | ||
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dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
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