On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
On April 24 2013 14:54 Type|NarutO wrote: "MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void. I can understand that the qualifier cannot be re-run, but in theory it should be re-run."
Two options for you. Admit you are wrong and apologize to me for the false claim I am putting words into anyone's mouth or explain how NarutO thinks "it should be re-run" but that's not what he "wants". And before you answer I advise you that I understand the difference between "wants" and "expects to happen" so don't try semantics.
In his words he thinks the correct, ideal-but-not-possible solution to this is the qualifier "should be re-run" so I want to hear his theory on telling the people who did qualify that their work no longer matters.
btw, I don't think NarutO likes it when you just "pick the posts you like ... because no one would attack an argument they cannot beat" so if you are going to complain about my example of the Tour de France because it's not an elimination tournament, you should probably also discuss my NFL and World Cup examples. Not to put words in NarutO's mouth but he might say you aren't doing a good job of responding to my argument.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
On April 24 2013 14:54 Type|NarutO wrote: "MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void. I can understand that the qualifier cannot be re-run, but in theory it should be re-run."
Two options for you. Admit you are wrong and apologize to me for the false claim I am putting words into anyone's mouth or explain how NarutO thinks "it should be re-run" but that's not what he "wants". And before you answer I advise you that I understand the difference between "wants" and "expects to happen" so don't try semantics.
In his words he thinks the correct, ideal-but-not-possible solution to this is the qualifier "should be re-run" so I want to hear his theory on telling the people who did qualify that their work no longer matters.
btw, I don't think NarutO likes it when you just "pick the posts you like ... because no one would attack an argument they cannot beat" so if you are going to complain about my example of the Tour de France because it's not an elimination tournament, you should probably also discuss my NFL and World Cup examples. Not to put words in NarutO's mouth but he might say you aren't doing a good job of responding to my argument.
So seed the people who already qualified into the winner's finals. They only need to win 1 bo3 to win, and if they lose that, they have another chance in the loser's finals. It still sucks for them, but this way their previous results still mean something, and the people who got shafted by MLG get a fair chance to qualify.
Thanks for the write-up and clarification. Being Chinese, I have always wondered the status of eSports and SC2 as a whole in China. I rarely get to watch the tournaments because of time differences and my work schedule. To see someone go into so much depth talking about the country I'm from and the "hobby" I've invested so much time in, means a lot to me. I too hope that MLG/Blizzzard can work something out for the Chinese players, because there are a few premier leagues that do grab the attention of the international fanbase: StarsWar, G-League, ASL. Ultimately, I feel that if Blizzard wanted to, WCS China couold definitely still be possible next year as long as Blizzard is willing to work with the Chinese scene in terms of making a deal of some sort. Of course, we all know that Blizzard does have a few run-ins with the Chinese government, but from what you've stated thus-far I feel the political confrontation would only be minor, and there would be a lot less misunderstanding and inconvinence the second time around.
On April 25 2013 02:00 Advantageous wrote: Thanks for the write-up and clarification. Being Chinese, I have always wondered the status of eSports and SC2 as a whole in China. I rarely get to watch the tournaments because of time differences and my work schedule. To see someone go into so much depth talking about the country I'm from and the "hobby" I've invested so much time in, means a lot to me. I too hope that MLG/Blizzzard can work something out for the Chinese players, because there are a few premier leagues that do grab the attention of the international fanbase: StarsWar, G-League, ASL. Ultimately, I feel that if Blizzard wanted to, WCS China couold definitely still be possible next year as long as Blizzard is willing to work with the Chinese scene in terms of making a deal of some sort. Of course, we all know that Blizzard does have a few run-ins with the Chinese government, but from what you've stated thus-far I feel the political confrontation would only be minor, and there would be a lot less misunderstanding and inconvinence the second time around.
In stead of a WCS China I would like to see a WCS for Asia - Korea + Oceania alongside the Americas, European(/ African) and Korean ones. And than each region should deliver their top 8 for the global tournament, that would be nice. The fact that the WCS was held in China last year tells me that the Chinese market is very important to Blizzard (it obviously should) and they're probably not very amused about the situation right now. Hopefully they step in and offer some sort of solution..
Axesome interview with Comm, really depressing. If MLG doesn't give a place in Code A for Comm after all their mistake the WCS AM should be totaly ignored and MLG kick of WCS.
Q: (From netizens) Do you feel that your passion for SC2 was impacted after this event, if so, as one of the best Zergs in China, would you switch over to other games. If not, how do you think we can prevent something like this from happening again? A: After this event there was definitely a hit on my motivation for SC2, but it won’t affect me fundamentally. After all I am someone who really loves SC2. And I feel that I really love Blizzard games. So even if I had to choose to switch games, I wouldn’t choose to switch over to other (non-Blizzard) games such as League of Legends. Because I feel that (Blizzard) create games that are very fun.
And Blizzard don't give a fuck about chinese players who have passion for their game.
Interview up. For subtitles, click "CC" and then "English". Thank you very much caihead for translating this and all your hard work and contributions up until this day. Very few TL users make it to 5,000 posts.
Welks over the last days I sure learned alot about the Chinese Sc2 scene. More then I ever would have by one player in Code NA. Luckily I am not paranoid enough to see an evil conspiracy using MLG as a scapegoat to get a huge PR boost.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
Ur question about the game skill of CN pro can be answered easily. U can just count how many non-Korean players survived in the last several rounds of this tournament, and where are they from.
Thanks for the detailed and well thought out post. I definitely sympathize with the Chinese players plight. The Chinese Esports community must feel suffocated right about now. I think that MLG definitely didn't handle the situation as well as they should have. It is apparent that there were a couple of serious miscommunication issues between the Chinese players, MLG, Blizzard China, ect. However, that's where I would draw the line between things that are MLG's fault and things that are unfortunate circumstances. I don't think that this constitutes racism, and I don't think that the Chinese players were purposely excluded from playing in MLG. As has been already noted here, there is no WCS qualifier in China because the infrastructure is not there for Blizzard to create one on. There isn't a comparable MLG or ESL or GSL to step up and host the qualifier in China, and Blizzard doesn't have the time to set up a new qualifier from the ground up by itself.
I would hesitate to call the Chinese players solely victims of MLG or Blizzard, I would put the blame more in China itself. I'm not going to pretend that I know too much about the economy or policies of the Chinese government, but I think that the reason the growth of the scene has been stunted in China is because the Chinese don't have the environment to create a sustainable system. Not to say the enthusiasm isn't there, enthusiasm for Esports in China is bigger than in the US IMO. We don't see threads detailing about how there isn't a WCS qualifier for Africa or South America, it's not because blizzard or MLG is failing these players, its because those continents can't support a player base. The lack of good reliable internet with the outside world in China, and the lack of sponsorship for SC2 is the culprit here I think.
I wish all the Chinese players best of luck, and I hope the situation improves.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
Ur question about the game skill of CN pro can be answered easily. U can just count how many non-Korean players survived in the last several rounds of this tournament, and where are they from.
And they didn't even all participate. Finally a group of foreigners who can give the Koreans a run for their money and a lot of them are excluded from playing.
EPT
Comm interview up
