Note: Interview with Comm is up, due to the statement from iG.Edison we will refrain from interviewing other iG players.
During the recent 2013 WCS Season 1 America Chinese players and teams came into the spot light following several allegations of incompetence and mismanagement on the part of MLG. However the center of attention quickly shifted away from understanding of the Chinese SC2 scene and what this event meant for the players and teams affected to misinformation and irrational bashing of MLG / Blizzard. This is what prompted this article as I do not believe that the international audience understands quite enough about the Chinese SC2 scene to adequately judge the situation. This article will also contain responses and interviews with the players and teams affected by the recent WCS NA Premier league Qualifiers in addendum to providing a clear time line of what has happened from the Chinese players/teams’ perspective.
A historical retrospective.
The leap from BW to SC2 in China was met with probably the utmost resistance outside of the Korean community, with netizens, fans, players, and community organizers and hubs alike all decrying the situation leading up to the eventual cancellation of professional BW broadcasting and leagues in South Korea. As financial interests and sponsors withdrew from BW in South Korea, the same occurred with in China, as most former professional players find themselves without a team, without sponsors, and without any reliable sources of income. While fortunately Chinese BW continues to thrive to this day by immense efforts from non-profit and fan or player promoted / organized tournaments and leagues in very similar fashion to the current state of South Korean organized league play; Chinese SC2 had a much higher difficulty getting off the ground in comparison with South Korea due to many environmental factors.
The Chinese academic and student extra-curricular environment is extremely competitive due to the population density and traditional societal values, the vast majority of parents and students themselves often regard gaming as a waste of time at best, and illegitimate or even undesirable at worst. This combined with the central government’s historical stance on internet control, standardized educational testing and evaluation, and the illegitimacy of video games as a hobby or art form makes it almost impossible to convince parents to allow their children to participate or commit in esports. Chinese BW has also gone through the same sordid history of struggling against stereotype, and survives as the majority of old legends and former pros are in their thirties or late twenties and are capable of making personal decisions about their own livelihoods. However both communities are still struggling to find new blood with in the scene.
The founding of the first mainland Chinese SC2 professional teams and leagues was up to the whims of individual investors and external forces in Blizzard Entertainment and the Chinese government’s policy on esports. Invictus Gaming, the most prominent team in terms of finance and player base was founded as the result of Wanda Enterprise director Wang Sicong acquiring Catastrophic Cruel Memory, originally famous for achievements in Dota) on August 2nd, 2011, with the majority of its Roster then converting over to SC2 including Comm, MacSed, xiaOt, and XiGua. The majority of currently active teams (World Elite, AnsWer Gaming, Tyloo) follow similar stories, expanding from former Dota or League of Legends teams as most BW veterans and communities were reluctant to transfer over. The only major exception being team Dream which was formed initially as a clan by former BW pros LoveTT and F91 which has since been reformed as PhoenixTeam.
The Taiwanese scene fared better with more open policies and the economical luxury for students and families to consider esports as a viable (albeit temporary) occupation. Wayi Spider and Gama Bears being the two most notable teams with SC2 divisions created in recent years. Many mainland players would choose to team hop over to Taiwan as alternatives to affording traveling to international events, the most notable success of Taiwanese players being Sen.
On the business and broadcasting end, multiple companies competed over the ability to rebroadcast and host their own coverage of SC2 tournaments in Wings of Liberty. Due to the fact that community sites were exploring new territory, the historical phenonmenon of community hub segregation (think defiler.ru vs. teamliquid.net level of segregation in the same community except without the language barrier), and fierce competition; each time coverage rights exchanged hands in between the major competitors (plu.cn, sc2.cn, gamefy.cn, neotv.cn just to name a few) it was often met with community animosity and caster bashing or complaints of broadcasting quality.
With all of this in mind, the initial release of Wings of Liberty through 2011 was not a great success, not as many copies were sold as the game was available as a monthly subscription basis at 20 RMB a month with a Chinese ID requirement and restrictive server regulation (which also limited global play to not be release in China). Interest in SC2 seemed to pale in terms of the stable niche fan base in BW and even Warcraft III and Dota.
With all of these problems, as well as the stagnant practice pool due to lack of playing with player pools outside of China, and consistent lag issues. Particular players have had significant success in Wings of Liberty despite the inability to travel overseas to Western tournaments or compete offline in South Korea due to expenses or Visa issues. Loner in particular came in second place at the BlizzCon 2010 and reached the round of 16 in GSL Season 2, while XiGua also made it all the way to the Grand finals in the WCG 2011 tournament only to lose against Mvp. Domestic leagues such as the G-league, the Neo Star League, and Starswar eventually started taking off, paving the way for the eventual surge in 2012.
The 2012 surge
After an extremely popular WCG 2012 in Kunshan, with SC2 being one of the most watched events, Blizzard finally took notice to announce that China was hosting multiple Championships, the 2012 BWC Championship, the 2012 WCS China Nationals, and the 2012 WCS Asia Finals. All of these premier events along with domestic iterations of StarWars 7 and Neo Star League 2012 (both of which invited international player pools) marked a great surge in interest and support for the Chinese scene. Things were finally looking up and up for the Chinese players and fans, many expressing hopes for the future and further financial or organizational support from Blizzard entertainment themselves. And perhaps even more importantly, Chinese players demonstrated that not only could they play with international players, but that they were capable of beating the best of the best, with MacSed and Sen taking 1st and 2nd place over MMA and Grubby in the StarsWar 7.
Hots release, lack of global play, and cancellation of WCS China / WCS Taiwan
The release of Heart of the Swarm was a moment of mostly jubilation and excitement for the majority of the world, with South Korean fans finally seeing ESF and Kespa teams being able to compete on relatively equal terms, new and exciting strategies in an otherwise stagnant “figured out” meta game, and the introduction of global play and announcement of huge Blizzard backing for multiple World Championship Series’ in North America and Europe. However Chinese teams and fans were flabbergasted by a series of decisions which apparently ignored the Chinese scene entirely. Without a Domestic championship for China in sight, the offline requirement for WCS Korea, and imminent lag issues connecting to other servers and incompatibilities with the lack of global play in China, the choices for Chinese teams and players were becoming extremely slim.
However in an unprecedented advancement from the central government in early 2013, College level professional esports competitions were finally made official under State government and even made it on the central news agencies. Culminating in the State General Administration of Sports announcing the creation of a 17-man national esports team to attend the 4th Asian Indoor & Martial Arts Games, even apologizing for previous inflammatory remarks made against esports. Few selected players with the financial luxury also chose to sign up for WCS, with XiGua attending WCS Europe, iG.Jim, iG.Xy, Tyloo.Infi, Comm, Ash, Zoo.Courage, MacSed, and Zoo.Top attending WCS North America. Many people hung on the hope of these players qualifying and setting the example not only for fans or sponsors, but for future players and national attention in the development of Chinese esports.
The WCS NA Premier League Qualifiers fiasco
With the help of Chinese affiliates and BreAKer (Enders116), here’s the series of events as recounted by Chinese players and teams (to be updated). Time line of events:
1.
The 24 invited players' list is released, in which none of the Chinese players were listed. iG.Edison confirms talking with Blizzard China regarding securing spots but it didn't go through.
2.
iG.Jim, iG.Xy, Tyloo.Infi, Comm, Ash, Zoo.Courage, MacSed, and Zoo.Top registered for WCS NA before the deadline. Jim and XY on the 15th, MacSed on the 12th. Alot of Koreans registered after the 16th.
3.
Check-in confirmation is made by iG's manager (Edison) on behalf of the iG players (Xy, Jim, and MacSed) with Wiggin, a MLG admin / moderator over SC2 at 10:17 to 10:19 PM. The phrasing is "They are all checked in and good to go.". Edison further asks upon inspection of the bracket and the players not being present whether the brackets are final, to which he was replied "no its not", which he took as confirmation that the brackets will be updated to include the iG players and that there's nothing to worry about. + Show Spoiler +
At this point, no one knew about the system of reservation, Blizzard staff had not contacted the teams about it, with Blizzard China simply telling them to register.
4.
When the brackets are finally released, only MacSed is in the Bracket along with Zoo.Top and an amateur player Fruitsbasket. As only the first 512 people got in, with no regard for player skill. Despite Korean players registering later than Chinese players, almost all of them got a spot in the qualifiers while Chinese players were ignored.
5.
The day plays out as normal for MacSed and Zoo.Top. However Fruitbasket evidently gave his spot to Comm (the WCS China champion) to play in his place, which Comm maintains that he has told his opponents about and has always played on the account. + Show Spoiler +
6.
Comm is disqualified after making it to the losers finals after losing in the winners finals against TheStC, Apocalypse gains a walk over. MacSed and Zoo.Top also fall 1:2 to aLive and Heart respectively in the loser's finals in their respective groups.
7.
MLG issues an apology with no mention of Chinese players or the disqualification of Comm MLG statement
The Aftermath
With all that has transpired, what’s done is done and there is no use unfairly hate-mongering against an organization such as MLG that has invested so much into esports. Much more importantly the issue is what this series of events actually mean for Chinese players and teams. So what does this actually mean?
1. Massive loss of confidence in Blizzard / MLG organizationally in the minds of Chinese players and fans. Netizens, fans, former pros, and player bases who are even relatively aware of the SC2 scene (including those in BW and other fields) are basically decrying the situation as a failure. Irrationality is running high in some cases, but understandably as they've just been subjected to the cancellation of global play and WCS China. Some are even decrying racism and stereotyping against Chinese players, which while obviously lacking evidence was not helped by the fact that MLG's apology failed to make mention of Chinese players.
2. The loss of potential financial interest and public media coverage entirely due to zero Chinese players representing in WCS NA's premier division. Coming off a great deal of enthusiasm due to the central government's relaxing of esports coverage and organization, alot of websites and sponsors were potentially considering covering these events in detail (I'm talking Television broadcasts similar to South Korea). With this event it not only devalues the financial investment potential for Chinese players, it also devalues esports as an industry in the eyes of the mainstream media and investors.
3. Whether or not the DQ on Comm is for the qualifier or from WCS NA entirely is still unclear.
4. Players who did not even get a chance to enter the tournament are displeased and extremely demotivated or frustrated. This is the kind of thing that ends careers, training for months and months following the pause of WoL tournaments for the only major Hots tournament that Chinese pro-players can participate in, then being shunned and barred from even competing is genuinely the sort of thing that makes people reconsider career decisions. Especially with a demographic of players as volatile and as pressured as Chinese players.
5. With no major future international Hots tournament coverage with Chinese players, the growth of esports and SC2 specifically in China takes a huge hit in terms of what it could have been.
6. Potential loss of income and sponsorship for the players who did not even get a chance to play (Xy, Jim, Infi, Ash, Courage)
Interviews
Interview from iG.Edison, seen here, courtesy of Monk / Digmouse.
Can you summarize your take on the situation involving the WCS NA qualifiers?
At this point, Edison showed us the e-mail he sent to Blizzard regarding the situation:
Hello everyone, I'm Edison, coach and manager of Invictus Gaming's Starcraft II division. I want to show you the unfair treatment by Major League Gaming to Chinese Starcraft II progamers in WCS North America qualifiers.
1. All Chinese progamers registered into WCS NA well before 15th April, while a lot of Koreans register after 16th, well after the 512 player limit, yet almost all the Koreans get their spot in the qualifier, while famous Chinese players like iG.Jim (WCG 2012 China Nationals 3rd place), Comm (WCS 2012 China Nationals champion), iGXY (ESWC 2012 Chinese qualifier winner) and Infi (Warcraft III legend) didn't receive their spot despite they have superior results and notability. The rules of MLG states that the first 512 players to register are eligible to play in the qualifier and did not specify the reserved spots, if the matter is about late registration, the Koreans will not be able to play as well.
2. The Chinese players did ask the in-game MLG admin about a confirmation on bracket to see whether they are in, and received a "you are good to go" after providing corresponding MLG ids. Later the brackets were changed 3 times before the actual qualifier begins, which Chinese players questioned the admin again, who responded by saying this is not the final bracket. After the Chinese players found their absence in the bracket, they only get apologies from the admins, no reason was given. Other players questioned about this in the official MLG channel as well, but the MLG admins started kicking these people out for asking.
3. Severe lack of honesty in rule enforcement: First of all, the entire registration and check-in procedure is not reasonable, there were no gates like GSL Code A qualifers in which spots are reserved for progamers, players in Master and Grandmaster leagues and then rest players. This "openness" results in a lot of amateur and even low level players to participate in, and a lot of walkovers due to no-shows, which is greatly wasting resources. What's even worse is that there were even hackers as encountered by ROOTCatZ and other players, no explanation and actions were given. The eligibility of participants is also in chao. WCS Korea Season 1 GSL Code S participant QuanticHyuN, who is not eligible to play in Premier Division qualifier in WCS Season 1, played in the WCS NA qualifier. MLG DQed him after he knocked out 3 players, but after a shortwhile he returned to play in the loser's bracket, knocking out another 2 players before DQed for the second time. No further actions were taken, nor explanations were given to the players knocked out by HyuN. WCS 2012 China Nationals winner Comm was not able to get his qualifier spot due to the forementioned situation, and a amateur Chinese player gave his MLG id for him to play, this was a situation acknowledged by MLG admins, Comm's opponents and casters, no actions were given till Comm is about to play his final qualification match, which he was disqualified due to violation of rules. But Korean players AxCrank stated him advancing to WCS NA defeating Chinese player ZooTOP on his Twitter, and was confirmed by his team, which is also a direct violation of rules, but he is not disqualified because of this.
Did you try to talk to MLG beforehand to reserve spots? And were you in contact with MLG at all before the qualifiers?
I did talk with Blizzard China about securing spots in WCS NA, but it looks like they didn't pull it off.
It was my fault that JIm and XY didn't register until 15th. I misread the MLG GameBattle's system, thinking their "team" registration means we have to register as a team. I registered 'Invictus Gaming' on 12th when registering for MacSed, but didn't find our team later in their team system, I thought there might be update delays, so I waited 2 more days after that
Did you know MLG had reserved slots for players? Did you try contacting MLG beforehand about these spots or just through Blizzard China?
I don't know about the reserved spots since it was not on the rules, and I wasn't told by Blizzard staff about this either. At my first meeting with Blizzard China, I did mention about securing qualifier spots. They told us to register ourselves and they'll see what they can help with.
By the way, when XiGua was playing in WCS EU qualifier, despite the massive latency, ESL was actively talking with us to see what they could do about it. On this part, I think MLG is way behind ESL.
How helpful was Blizzard China throughout this whole ordeal?
They helped a lot. I went to a meeting with them about tough things like travel and visa if our Chinese players actually made it through to see if they could offer any help. After the problems surfaced at WCS NA, I went to Blizzard China offices again. They are actively helping us submitting complaints to the esports department at the US headquarters.
If the two players who were barred from the qualifier (Jim and XY) were allowed to play, what do you think their chances of qualifying would be?
I can't say they are guaranteed to qualify, but as long there are a slim chance, we'll fight for it as hard as possible. Jim is currently top 20 in Korean GM, and XY is in top 100.
What do you think about the WCS 2013 system with AM/EU/KR regions, but not one that specifically includes China?
I was initially unhappy, even angry about the absence of WCS China. But after I calmed down, I realized it's not entirely Blizzard's fault that they don't have a WCS CN. First of all, HotS is not yet released in China. Secondly, we don't have a long-term stable league like MLG, IEM or GSL/SPL. But even though this is true, our Chinese players are looking forward to play in these tournaments all the time and we don't complain about latency or time difference. But even under these circumstances, we still took unfair treatment because of the lack of honestly of MLG. And because Sundance's apology didn't even mention a single word about Chinese players, we are truly hurt.
What would it mean for your team and also the Chinese scene as a whole if Chinese players couldn't compete in WCS?
Starcraft II in China is far from ideal. Like I previously said, there are no stable leagues to play in, and because of the early promotion and subscription model problem, we don't have a large player base. Because of this, there are not a lot of new players stepping it up and we are still relying on the old players. We need more Chinese progamers to play in major tournaments like WCS abroad to attract more attention. If we can't even play in WCS, a Blizzard official tournament, things are going to become harder and harder for us. There is one thing you need to know: last year we had 8 teams playing in a team league; now we are reduced to only 3 pro teams. And since a lot of Chinese players are students who play on campus networks, they prefer team games that can be played together like DotA or LoL.
Are there any lessons you can take away from this whole situation?
First of all, I need to improve my English. Also, never put your hope on others. No matter how busy you are, you have to confirm everything yourself to make sure everything is right in place. Though we have been trying out best to play in as many tournaments as we can, we are still troubled by things like visas. After this, we'll prepare better against this kind of situation and let the world know Chinese players are even more hard-working than Koreans. Our performance will show the results of our efforts.
Is there anything else you want to say to the foreign scene or foreign fans?
I want to thank all foreign fans for supporting us on Teamliquid, r/starcraft, and twitch chat after all these unhappy things happened. Because of your support, we will show you more great games to prove our skills and effort. This interview is not to bash MLG; we hope all tournaments could be more professional and mature, less frustrated by bias, whether economical or emotional, because fair play is the core element of e-sports. I just hope everyone will continue to support us and help us claim our deserved tournament rights. Thank all of you very much, we love you.
Q: Introduce yourself, when did you first start out as a professional (SC2) player? A: It should have been around August 2010, back then I joined one of the oldest Chinese clubs (teams) called Nv (Nirvana) and was on the same team with some Chinese pros such as Xigua, MacSed, and XiaoT.
Q: How many times have you had experience participating in international tournaments? A: Just twice, both in last year with the WCS China and the BWC A(sia).
Q: You have never attended the GSL correct? A: No, back then iG was trying out for GSL and we sent two players, MacSed and Xigua. So I didn’t go.
Q: Loner’s been in the GSL correct? A: Yes, he went there back in 2010 with WE (World Elite) to the GSL for the first time.
Q: We know you used Fruitbasket’s account to compete in the WCS NA premier qualifier, and that you publically made it clear to everyone that it was you who was playing on this account. Did you think that it was too severe (a punishment) for you to get a DQ? A: Regarding this, I did register for the event but didn’t get in. Fruitbasket messaged me and told me that he did get in and offered his account to me. I should probably have contacted the tournament organizations before any matches started, to tell them that I was using this “smurf” account. In all of this I did make a lot of actions which broke the rules, specifically in not telling them (MLG) before the matches started. But I do feel like being DQ’ed in that situation, might have been a bit overkill in some extent.
Q: When you realized that you weren’t officially accepted into the 512-man bracket, how did you feel? A: I felt that, maybe it was because I signed (registered) too late? But when that happened I also saw that there were players who registered even later than we did and they got into the tournament. So we felt pretty bad and aggravated. After all, I did prepare a lot, trying to correct my sleep schedule for the time zone shift, getting myself in the best condition for the tournament. When I saw that I didn’t make it into the tournament I felt pretty depressed.
Q: I know that you (Chinese players) practice a lot, to the point where a lot of players this month(s) were sleeping during the day and practicing Starcraft at night on the NA servers. A: Yes.
Q: Other than the WCS NA DQ, have you ever received any other penalties? A: No, I haven’t received any penalties or warnings from other tournaments, WCS NA is the first time.
Q: I feel that this (WCS China champion) was a very difficult achievement, having practiced every day to become a better player. Yet does it seem right now in comparison to other Western or Korean players, you haven’t been treated fairly? A: I feel that I should at least be able to receive a Code A (Challenger league) spot so I can participate in the official tournament. Because regardless of what you say, all the WCS Champions received invitations (seeds) (into the premier league), but WCS China Champion did not receive anything. And I felt that this time I had a lot of chances to make it into the Code S, but ended up getting DQ’ed. It’s very hard for me to accept that.
Q: I see, and what do you think of the WCS format this year? I’ve talked with Xiaozi and he feels that the chances of getting something (leagues) started in China this year are pretty slim. A: I think that there isn’t much of a chance, after all there is already WCS Korea, NA, and Europe. Europe is a very hard area for China because the latency is too high to where we just can’t compete. If we want to play in Korea, we have to play through the preliminaries (Code A) and even just making it into the Code S is going to take a long time. And you have to stay in Korea for a long time to do that. Chinese player’s best hope is still playing in North America in MLG. But this preliminary we haven’t had any players make it directly into Code S. And even if we did, the Visa problem is still going to be a very big hurdle.
Q: (from netizens) Do you think other Chinese players have chances (of qualifying)? A: Right now people like MacSed and others who have been confirmed to participate in the tournament (Challenger league) on the 27th such as Jim, Xy, Infi… I think have very good chances. As long as they get a bit lucky with the group selection, I think they have a good possibility of qualifying into Code S.
Q: (From netizens) Do you feel that your passion for SC2 was impacted after this event, if so, as one of the best Zergs in China, would you switch over to other games. If not, how do you think we can prevent something like this from happening again? A: After this event there was definitely a hit on my motivation for SC2, but it won’t affect me fundamentally. After all I am someone who really loves SC2. And I feel that I really love Blizzard games. So even if I had to choose to switch games, I wouldn’t choose to switch over to other (non-Blizzard) games such as League of Legends. Because I feel that (Blizzard) create games that are very fun.
In my honest opinion, there is absolutely no point in engaging in hate-fueled flame war with MLG, what is right to do with in the power of western audiences is to let MLG know exactly what it means for the Chinese players when something like this happens. What the Chinese players and fans want the most is not to fight with Blizzard or MLG or any tournament host, but to grow esports domestically and show great games for the fans, whether they are in China or overseas. To make esports mainstream in China so that parents don't scold their children and that passers-by and athletes don't snob them publicly for doing something they love. So that esports might become a bridge in which Chinese players and fans can meet international players and fans and grow a friendship when there is so much prejudice and hatred due to politics that we can not control.
So please, discuss like rational people and think about the actual people that this is affecting the most. Don't throw the interests of the players under a bus because of your personal grudges with an organization or a country. I will try my best to bring you the news and thoughts of Chinese players and fans once I can.
A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
On April 24 2013 06:27 Liman wrote: Putting all aside I think Chinese government internet policies are cause of some problems here,this must not be forgotten. MLG screw up badly.
Thanks for this post, man, it's really informative. I feel so sorry for the Chinese players who have been denied a crucial opportunity here. Whosever fault it may be, I'd love to see tournaments reaching out to let Chinese players participate and for the government to open access to global gaming on the same level that the rest of the world has. Hopefully something is done soon in that regard.
Meanwhile, I'll be cheering as always for Chinese-American players like Suppy, hellokitty, Insur, and Xenocider!
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
On April 24 2013 06:27 Liman wrote: Putting all aside I think Chinese government internet policies are cause of some problems here,this must not be forgotten.
Putting all aside I think you need to re-read the thread.
The fact that there were problems with the Check in also affected American players, ROOT.puCK being the most notable one I think.
And the apology by MLG barely even addressed any of the other problems like the hacker or Hyun knocking several people out who otherwise would have had the chance to qualify. I seriously hope MLG makes the Challenger qualifier open rather than invite only. The NA amateur scene as well as the chinese scene would suffer if plans are kept the way they are right now.
In the end though Blizzard should have forced the same format for all regions, and at least part of the blame lies with them.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
player spots were awarded on who registered for the tournament first rather than who checked in first. when they checked in they were on a waiting list in case some of the people who had places didn't show.
Amazing article, thank you for taking your time to do it. MLG must invite Comm and other top chinese player directly in WCS Challenger and apologyze to them. Even if they do that, they maybe already destroyed SC2 future in China and chinese pros wasted their time training.
thank you for this post describing the situation as before I had only really heard bits and pieces. I hope that MLG can do something here to somewhat fix the situation as it's become FUBAR'd. Is it just me or this whole mlg wcs thing comes across as being really poorly planned from the get go.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
player spots were awarded on who registered for the tournament first rather than who checked in first. when they checked in they were on a waiting list in case some of the people who had places didn't show.
Still retarded if you ask me.
I hope the best for the china scene and that blizzard/mlg answer to this (they said on the 2gd show they were going to do a QA or something like that ?). They certainly deserved their own WCS (china and SEA) but since they didn't get it, and korea has offline qualifiers it should had been obvious they were going to migrate to the WCS America.
If Comm really voided a MLG rule, I think the DQ is fair, the situation is the same for everyone... but it don't excuse the rest of this Chinese affair.
Why you making a big deal out of it, if he was late, then tried to play on his friends account, and wouldnt tell his opponents or admin who he was, until after a few rounds.
If your going to pull shady stuff like this or just completely miss the signup/checkin, You shouldn't be complaining.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
On April 24 2013 07:24 t e a C h e r wrote: I hear comm was late to check in or even sign up.
Why you making a big deal out of it, if he was late, then tried to play on his friends account, and wouldnt tell his opponents or admin who he was, until after a few rounds.
If your going to pull shady stuff like this or just completely miss the signup/checkin, You shouldn't be complaining.
64 players were seeded into the qualifiers. This included EG players, ROOT players, Axiom players, Quantic players etc. The Chinese WCS champion was not among them.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
player spots were awarded on who registered for the tournament first rather than who checked in first. when they checked in they were on a waiting list in case some of the people who had places didn't show.
im convinced that there is a priority queue for known players or progamers from na, eu and kr but not sea and cn.
I wish Blizzard could have organised at least a smaller league with some decent prizes and a couple of spots for the seasonal finals for SEA/Australia and China. Those regions have more talent than NA, as China proved in the Qualifiers.
It's so stupid by Blizzard to invest so much in China in 2012, only to completely ignore it in 2013. China was HUGE in Dota and WC3, can't they understand the profits that are to be had if they try and nurture the SC2 scene over there?
PS: Comm is teamless now right? And PhoenixTeam has been replaced with ZoO?
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
It's rather surprising that the winner of WCS China didn't get a seed to WCS, while the winner of WCS Argentina did.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Russia and China are huge countries. Population density in Russia is greatest in the West(the parts of Russia that are in Europe), while the Chinese are mostly living in the East.
If you played SC2 from Siberia you'd probably have massive ping problems on the EU server, even though that's 'in Russia.'
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
let me put it like this: it is known that china to europe ping is unplayable. and btw: arguing geographically says eveything about your internet knowledge
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
errrrrrrrrrrrr...most Russians play from the Moscow/St. Petersberg or the surrounding areas, and those are very far away from China, and much closer to Europe lol.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
pretty ignorant post. your points can be answered easily though: Comm won WCS China so he should be awarded a spot flying to the Code B qualifier is much more expensive then an online qualifier. china ping to europe is unplayable. na is laggy but seems somewhat ok considering how far comm went.
How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
This might help:
Consider also most of the Euro people are in Western Europe, Chinese people in Eastern China. + Show Spoiler +
Nice article, well written! What happened is really unfortunate. From what I understand, they registered but 512+ people registered before them so even though the admin said they were ok to go, he meant they were checked in and wasn't confirming their placements. Also, I checked the rules of MLG and rules #4 and #6 say that a DQ can happen in a situation like with Comm so unfortunate, if we stick to those rules, MLG is in the right. I think MLG should've at least given comm a seed and maybe one or two more players then put a certain point and league limit for the 512 spots followed by everyone else so that the game levels are high and pros get first choice but not much can be done now. Best to wait till the next tournament I guess.
In hindsight, it is very obvious that MLG should have directly seeded pro players into the bracket, or had at the least had priority registration for people above a certain threshold on the ladder.
However, the rules were very clearly laid out: your place in the bracket is determined by registration. I noticed and understood this rule even though I never had the slightest intention of registering. Yes, MLG absolutely should have done things differently from the beginning. Pro players should be on the ball enough to not get spots sniped out from under them by random players; registration did not fill in minutes, it filled in hours.
People are treating this like some conspiracy against Chinese pros, when it really wasn't... they just weren't there to sign up as registration opened. Maybe you can blame time zones, maybe you can blame a language barrier, but ultimately I think you have to blame the players for not understanding the rules and ESPECIALLY their teams for not conveying the rules to them.
OTOH, the DQ of Comm is just plain silly. Yeah, he broke a rule, but it's a rule that really, really did not need to be followed to the letter in this case.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
If I remember correctly there were 64 seeded slots within the qualifiers.
Umm ok what does that have to do with Koreans showing up late and still being allowed to enter? That's what I want proof of.
Well, this is not anything I know the specifics about, however if they were seeded then I'm sure they didn't need to be one of the first to check in. They just needed to sign in and check in before the tournament starts. That would make the most sense to me. If they had to be among the first 512 then it wouldn't really make sense because they are seeded... Their spots can't get given away.
On April 24 2013 06:27 Liman wrote: Putting all aside I think Chinese government internet policies are cause of some problems here,this must not be forgotten. MLG screw up badly.
Nothing to do with government policy here.
censorship = no global play = might have to borrow someone else's account
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
They will do it better next time, don't worry. By not publically tweeting things like that and instead doing it privately so we can't find out that they've just screwed over Chinese (and others) at the expense of massive favouratism to TL and the other big names.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
If I remember correctly there were 64 seeded slots within the qualifiers.
Umm ok what does that have to do with Koreans showing up late and still being allowed to enter? That's what I want proof of.
Well, this is not anything I know the specifics about, however if they were seeded then I'm sure they didn't need to be one of the first to check in. They just needed to sign in and check in before the tournament starts. That would make the most sense to me. If they had to be among the first 512 then it wouldn't really make sense because they are seeded... Their spots can't get given away.
I figured the poster who I was originally replying to meant open bracket players, I wasn't really thinking about seeded players. I see your point tho
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
Again, check-in time was irrelevant. If a player checked in at all, even if it was seconds before check-in closed, then they had the possibility to be entered into the bracket. Whether they made it in depended on registration time.
I don't know if there were some pro players given exceptions, but even some silver scrub could have checked in after the Chinese players and gotten in above them, provided the silver scrub had registered before them.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
If I remember correctly there were 64 seeded slots within the qualifiers.
Umm ok what does that have to do with Koreans showing up late and still being allowed to enter? That's what I want proof of.
Well, this is not anything I know the specifics about, however if they were seeded then I'm sure they didn't need to be one of the first to check in. They just needed to sign in and check in before the tournament starts. That would make the most sense to me. If they had to be among the first 512 then it wouldn't really make sense because they are seeded... Their spots can't get given away.
I figured the poster who I was originally replying to meant open bracket players, I wasn't really thinking about seeded players. I see your point tho
I meant I recall there being 64 seeded spots within the 512 person open bracket, many of those slots going to known Koreans, so they were guaranteed a spot regardless of signup time.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
The rules mention that if there are more than 512 players, it's first come first served based on registration time, not check-in time. My question for MLG - there were 64 reserved slots for the qualifier. Who were they assigned to? These chinese players should have received them (assuming they did register too late).
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
How do this contribute to what the OP is trying to accomplish? The Chinese players are mature enough to over look all this, and only ask for future cooperation between Chinese Esport and mlg/blizzard by letting the western world understand what's going on in the Chinese scene so there would be a mutual understanding instead of bigotry. Time to put down the torches and rebuild over the ashes of this fail.
On April 24 2013 06:39 Whitewing wrote:How many other players registered and checked in ahead of time but didn't get a spot?
I don't know but there's been Koreans who were checked in AFTER everyone else checked in and still got in.
proof plox?
MLG Adam tweeted at TL saying that Zenio wasn't checked in, the hour of the tweet is after the hours of the messages between the Chinese players and the admins.
This is a "fuck you China" from MLG and cannot be done with just an apology. Amends have to be made and they have to have substance.
Not like MLG Admins haven't shown favoritism before. I've read quite a few blogs where players have voiced their anxieties with regard to similar situations when it came to showing up on-time/late and receiving information.
I seriously doubt Sundance and MLG actually care about the Chinese scene at all to mention how they badly they screwed them over. If they did, they would be actively working with Blizzard on a solution to seed or hold separate qualifiers into WCS NA as compensation for their incompetence, but no:
More important for MLG to make a shitty corporate PR apology and quickly pretend it never happened so the foreigner community quickly forgets about it.
MLG should be shunned for not giving Comm and multiple others a seed, also for how they handled the whole thing (physics dude, etc.). Regarding Comm, risking a disqualification for playing on a "smurf" account (Comm didn't deny his identity) is better than not playing at all, I hate to be derogatory but some of you need to learn to think, he didn't have any options.
On April 24 2013 08:23 Gamegene wrote: I seriously doubt Sundance and MLG actually care about the Chinese scene at all to mention how they badly they screwed them over. If they did, they would be actively working with Blizzard on a solution to seed or hold separate qualifiers into WCS NA as compensation for their incompetence, but no:
More important for MLG to make a shitty corporate PR apology and quickly pretend it never happened so the foreigner community quickly forgets about it.
On April 24 2013 08:23 Gamegene wrote: More important for MLG to make a shitty corporate PR apology and quickly pretend it never happened so the foreigner community quickly forgets about it.
I get it. like what they do with almost everything right?
same occurs with entire south america scene, they invited Capoch, Killer, Fenix, but completely forgot the rest of the community. when warcraft 3 is on TOP, we have WCG and ESWC on south america to bust up the scene, is like eswc first semester, wcg second... then with sc2 wcg and eswc are gone with sc2 on south america....
last year we have a blink of hope with WCS announcement and even a IEM on brazil.. we have WCS Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Argentina and Peru. now we have NOTHING, only untouchable's tournaments like WCS NA, just tell me how a brazillian/south american player can keep playing starcraft 2 without no big championship to dream? how a 15 years old would prefer to play sc2 with 0 champions when dota 2 and lol have weeklys and monthlys tournaments in south america??? Its unfair, simple unfair... if anyone here thinks play in a qualify and get kicked by a korean for 0-2 is gonna make someone wants to be best, u are completely wrong...
if u want to exclude south america/ china/ taiwan from WCS REGIONS, FINE BLIZZARD. but give us at least national tournaments for at least one time per year...
sorry for my poor english, but china pain is south america pain
I don't think there should even be any more discussion over this. MLG is not going to make any changes to benefit anyone, because they have already run the tournament that they wanted to run.
If they cared about anyone else's opinion they would have made that clear earlier. If you want to help things change, send MLG an email about what you think they should change, and DON'T WATCH WCS NA.
Give WCS all your support by watching and subscribing to WCS EU and WCS KR, but refuse to support the organization that is incapable of hosting legitimate tournaments. eSports is not going to die anytime soon. There are many lessons to be learned, so be smart about how you handle yourselves in regards to the scene.
The lessons MLG can learn here is how important everyone is in eSports. They have proven over and over that even though they know how to host offline events, they don't know how to respect the people they work with. Give MLG the fewest viewers by far while still supporting the other 3 WCS tournaments, while at the same time throwing MLG huge amounts of positive feedback will slap them in the face while also showing them what we all think needs to happen to make them legitimate.
mlg doesnt care. the chinese scene is too small to effect them and they are only in it for their own profits and nothing else. people get screwed all the time and its not fair but theres nothing we can do. Unless everyone turns off their streams for the chinese players sundance is going to roll on his bed in money
On April 24 2013 08:44 Shinta) wrote: I don't think there should even be any more discussion over this. MLG is not going to make any changes to benefit anyone, because they have already run the tournament that they wanted to run.
If they cared about anyone else's opinion they would have made that clear earlier. If you want to help things change, send MLG an email about what you think they should change, and DON'T WATCH WCS NA.
lol. boycotting is retarded for a number of reasons, but for this particular one it doesn't tell them which issue you're specifically angry enough about to boycott a stream.
important for people to get loud and angry and bring out the pitchforks, because otherwise MLG can and will blissfully try to avoid the fact they fucked up.
in fact, Sundance's first reaction was to criticize the fans as being unable to understand the difficulties of trying to please them, instead of immediately sincerely acknowledging and apologizing.
i highly doubt the man would have even said a word if there wasn't such an outrage on reddit and over 1000 pages of criticism on TL.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
So a very prominent player like DeMusliM who actually plays in many tournaments (NASL the most recent I can remember where he did exceptionally well, 2nd place WCS UK) doesn't get an invite, but players like Capoch and Maker who havent had ANY outstanding results besides placing well in their respective countries' WCS last year get invites? What about IdrA as well, or Fenix?
Yeah I know there is some wonky algorithm that Blizzard used to come up with the invitees based off of WCS points from last year. But looking at the way others from different regions got invites, there seems to be no real basis to go off of why certain people got invited. From a business standpoint, Blizzard should have looked at players who have results AND marketability, which DeMusliM certainly has, i mean come on, its fucking Ben Baker here.
Anyways besides that, Chinese players got screwed over, period. These players work as hard as other pro gamers yet get their spots taken by random gold leaguers who cheese first round and get slaughtered. The fact that a worldwide brand such as MLG does not have the infrastructure to conduct an open bracket, something that they have been renowned for at LANs, as well as shuts down an astounding run by Comm is beyond stupid. It is unfair for them. It is also unfair that hackers were able to play through many rounds, HyuN played through and beat people, and there was a crazy amount of downtime.
Too much Chinese exceptionalism in this paragraph:
The Chinese academic and student extra-curricular environment is extremely competitive due to the population density and traditional societal values, the vast majority of parents and students themselves often regard gaming as a waste of time at best, and illegitimate or even undesirable at worst. This combined with the central government’s historical stance on internet control, standardized educational testing and evaluation, and the illegitimacy of video games as a hobby or art form makes it almost impossible to convince parents to allow their children to participate or commit in esports. Chinese BW has also gone through the same sordid history of struggling against stereotype, and survives as the majority of old legends and former pros are in their thirties or late twenties and are capable of making personal decisions about their own livelihoods. However both communities are still struggling to find new blood with in the scene.
The governmental and societal attitude toward professional gaming is not that different in China and in many other countries. The Chinese exceptionalism is such a syndrome in a lot of writings and academic literature on China by Chinese writers. Such degree of exceptionalism really needs a systematic cross-national analysis to justify.
Will OP be edited to explain the difference between check-in confirmation and registration priority?
And is the Chinese scene so so fragile that it won't survive a few months to do things right in WCS Season 2?
And is Heart of the Swarm banned by the authoritarian Chinese Communist government? I get that impression but I can't really tell. I looked up http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Chinese_SC2_scene and it seems the original problem for StarCraft II popularity was Wings of Liberty was banned and then heavily restricted.
Will OP be edited to explain the difference between check-in confirmation and registration priority?
And is the Chinese scene so so fragile that it won't survive a few months to do things right in WCS Season 2?
And is Heart of the Swarm banned by the authoritarian Chinese Communist government? I get that impression but I can't really tell. I looked up http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Chinese_SC2_scene and it seems the original problem for StarCraft II popularity was Wings of Liberty was banned and then heavily restricted.
WoL was not banned, it was just reviewing process taking long. HotS neither, the review process is underway and it will release soon.
The Chinese academic and student extra-curricular environment is extremely competitive due to the population density and traditional societal values, the vast majority of parents and students themselves often regard gaming as a waste of time at best, and illegitimate or even undesirable at worst. This combined with the central government’s historical stance on internet control, standardized educational testing and evaluation, and the illegitimacy of video games as a hobby or art form makes it almost impossible to convince parents to allow their children to participate or commit in esports. Chinese BW has also gone through the same sordid history of struggling against stereotype, and survives as the majority of old legends and former pros are in their thirties or late twenties and are capable of making personal decisions about their own livelihoods. However both communities are still struggling to find new blood with in the scene.
The governmental and societal attitude toward professional gaming is not that different in China and in many other countries. The Chinese exceptionalism is such a syndrome in a lot of writings and academic literature on China by Chinese writers. Such degree of exceptionalism really needs a systematic cross-national analysis to justify.
This is some general statement (regarding exceptionalism) that you can throw to any country (US espcially), and when you just state it without evidence or proof it can come off as offensive. Whatever you think about the Chinese, you have to admit their situations/environment is quite different compare to the rest of the world.
On April 24 2013 08:59 larse wrote: Too much Chinese exceptionalism in this paragraph:
The Chinese academic and student extra-curricular environment is extremely competitive due to the population density and traditional societal values, the vast majority of parents and students themselves often regard gaming as a waste of time at best, and illegitimate or even undesirable at worst. This combined with the central government’s historical stance on internet control, standardized educational testing and evaluation, and the illegitimacy of video games as a hobby or art form makes it almost impossible to convince parents to allow their children to participate or commit in esports. Chinese BW has also gone through the same sordid history of struggling against stereotype, and survives as the majority of old legends and former pros are in their thirties or late twenties and are capable of making personal decisions about their own livelihoods. However both communities are still struggling to find new blood with in the scene.
The governmental and societal attitude toward professional gaming is not that different in China and in many other countries. The Chinese exceptionalism is such a syndrome in a lot of writings and academic literature on China by Chinese writers. Such degree of exceptionalism really needs a systematic cross-national analysis to justify.
This is some general statement (regarding exceptionalism) that you can throw to any country (US espcially), and when you just state it without evidence or proof it can come off as offensive. Whatever you think about the Chinese, you have to admit their situations/environment is quite different compare to the rest of the world.
So it's the opposite. That is some general statement that you can throw to any country. "Whatever you think about the United States, you have to admit their situations/environment is quite different compare to the rest of the world."
What I was trying to say is that the author can talk about the situation and history of Chinese SC2 scene without emphasizing too much on its 'unique difficulties'. They are not that unique. They are everywhere. Emphasizing those too much would make them sound like excuses and would obscure the discovery of the true factors that are common in many other places or to the entire world.
If what OP said is true, and Chinese government is officially supporting ESPORT in the country now, we will see China moving very fast in the next few years.
On April 24 2013 09:41 haduken wrote: If what OP said is true, and Chinese government is officially supporting ESPORT in the country now, we will see China moving very fast in the next few years.
The WC3 and DOTA scenes are well and highly developed, way before government started to think about supporting esports. Now it's the LOL.
SC2 is a popular game but it's just not that popular.
Will OP be edited to explain the difference between check-in confirmation and registration priority?
And is the Chinese scene so so fragile that it won't survive a few months to do things right in WCS Season 2?
And is Heart of the Swarm banned by the authoritarian Chinese Communist government? I get that impression but I can't really tell. I looked up http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Chinese_SC2_scene and it seems the original problem for StarCraft II popularity was Wings of Liberty was banned and then heavily restricted.
I would also like to know the answer to these questions.
Could anyone with the knowledge explain how ownership/intellectual rights in china affect this situation? I don't know but I feel like there is a struggle for control between blizz and china but i don't know how much of what i've heard is exaggerated vs legit if any.
See chinese people are very faithful and trusting people. They do their research and make sure everything is order and hate it when the other end fails. MLG lacked even an apology let alone recognition. This is pretty much killing sc2 for chinese players as the OP said motivation loss, loss in potential finances and media and more. I am disappointed in MLG/blizz
"FUCK HIS MUM" "I CAN'T ENDURE THIS TYPE OF SHIT FROM MLG" "I'M GOING TO SEEK AN EXPLANATION".
Pretty epic lol!
Rules are rules, he shoulda asked before even playing the first match.... hahaha completely his own fault.
Yes i know he should have been seeded, and i agree 100%. Still if gold players(probably their first time registering and checking in for a tournament), are able to follow the simple procedures, i'm sure he, with that well of an understanding of the english language, could of registered and been one of the 512 to checkin, if you are on top of your sh.it, but he was not.
On April 24 2013 11:20 Leeoku wrote: See chinese people are very faithful and trusting people. They do their research and make sure everything is order and hate it when the other end fails. MLG lacked even an apology let alone recognition. This is pretty much killing sc2 for chinese players as the OP said motivation loss, loss in potential finances and media and more. I am disappointed in MLG/blizz
On April 24 2013 11:20 Leeoku wrote: See chinese people are very faithful and trusting people. They do their research and make sure everything is order and hate it when the other end fails. MLG lacked even an apology let alone recognition. This is pretty much killing sc2 for chinese players as the OP said motivation loss, loss in potential finances and media and more. I am disappointed in MLG/blizz
This is wrong, over-dramatic, and racist. gratz
As an asian I share the same feelings. I have had scenarios like this before so i can relate. It is just unprofessional.
On April 24 2013 08:59 larse wrote: Too much Chinese exceptionalism in this paragraph:
The Chinese academic and student extra-curricular environment is extremely competitive due to the population density and traditional societal values, the vast majority of parents and students themselves often regard gaming as a waste of time at best, and illegitimate or even undesirable at worst. This combined with the central government’s historical stance on internet control, standardized educational testing and evaluation, and the illegitimacy of video games as a hobby or art form makes it almost impossible to convince parents to allow their children to participate or commit in esports. Chinese BW has also gone through the same sordid history of struggling against stereotype, and survives as the majority of old legends and former pros are in their thirties or late twenties and are capable of making personal decisions about their own livelihoods. However both communities are still struggling to find new blood with in the scene.
The governmental and societal attitude toward professional gaming is not that different in China and in many other countries. The Chinese exceptionalism is such a syndrome in a lot of writings and academic literature on China by Chinese writers. Such degree of exceptionalism really needs a systematic cross-national analysis to justify.
This is some general statement (regarding exceptionalism) that you can throw to any country (US espcially), and when you just state it without evidence or proof it can come off as offensive. Whatever you think about the Chinese, you have to admit their situations/environment is quite different compare to the rest of the world.
So it's the opposite. That is some general statement that you can throw to any country. "Whatever you think about the United States, you have to admit their situations/environment is quite different compare to the rest of the world."
What I was trying to say is that the author can talk about the situation and history of Chinese SC2 scene without emphasizing too much on its 'unique difficulties'. They are not that unique. They are everywhere. Emphasizing those too much would make them sound like excuses and would obscure the discovery of the true factors that are common in many other places or to the entire world.
He emphasize it because just because not everything is black and white. If a country has 100 murders/year and another country has 100,000 murders/year, you can't just say "Well don't tell us about your country's murder problem, EVERY country has some murders."
To compare China's societal issues regarding gaming with the US is like comparing gun issues in the US with that of the rest of the developed world.
On April 24 2013 07:36 t e a C h e r wrote: How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Have you registered a Chinese sc2 account before? Have you ever tried to connect to the Chinese server from outside of China or connected to a server outside of China from China?
Have you done anything except posted skeptical, borderline troll posts on teamliquid.net?
The bottom line is the WCS is known as the World Championship Series. The term "world" implies that every country that has players will participate in it. Hell, even PandaTank from South Africa tried his luck in the WCS EU Qualifiers and I believe made it to the round of 16 one day.
Long story short, this paragraph is bolded because it is exactly things like this (and skeptics like you) that is keeping eSports from growing, and China has the second largest economy in the world and is the only one that can come close to beating the USA in the Olympics. Imagine if eSports had more players from China and that more and more players from China were taking place in tournaments like NASL, IEM, and so on. Imagine if the player-base in China were ten times larger from starcraft 2 becoming a free to play game (like LoL). This would create a potentially huge market for eSports. There has been more investment in SC2 in China in the year 2012 than any year before it, but if you even think I am wrong, go ahead and reply to this post. I will not even bother trying to shoot you down because I have no more time to waste with you.
On April 24 2013 11:23 Kim Hyuna wrote:
FYI, it says:
"FUCK HIS MUM" "I CAN'T ENDURE THIS TYPE OF SHIT FROM MLG" "I'M GOING TO SEEK AN EXPLANATION".
Pretty epic lol!
I am so sorry this had to happen. in the red text, that is the actual coach of team iG. I want to seek a statement from him as well.
On April 24 2013 07:36 t e a C h e r wrote: How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Have you registered a Chinese sc2 account before? Have you ever tried to connect to the Chinese server from outside of China or connected to a server outside of China from China?
Have you done anything except posted skeptical, borderline troll posts on teamliquid.net?
The bottom line is the WCS is known as the World Championship Series. The term "world" implies that every country that has players will participate in it. Hell, even PandaTank from South Africa tried his luck in the WCS EU Qualifiers and I believe made it to the round of 16 one day.
Long story short, this paragraph is bolded because it is exactly things like this (and skeptics like you) that is keeping eSports from growing, and China has the second largest economy in the world and is the only one that can come close to beating the USA in the Olympics. Imagine if eSports had more players from China and that more and more players from China were taking place in tournaments like NASL, IEM, and so on. Imagine if the player-base in China were ten times larger from starcraft 2 becoming a free to play game (like LoL). This would create a potentially huge market for eSports. There has been more investment in SC2 in China in the year 2012 than any year before it, but if you even think I am wrong, go ahead and reply to this post. I will not even bother trying to shoot you down because I have no more time to waste with you.
you guys actually think the starcraft scene there might grow if these few Chineses have some successes in WCS?
No, not until Blizzard adds LAN (aka never) because the mass audience in China just refuse to buy the game and pirate instead. A few dozens of (mediocre) players like Jim, Xigua cant/wont keep the scene alive & developing
Meanwhile the Taiwanese scene seems ok with all these teams & leagues. Pretty sure they might wanna regard themselves as a different entity than the Chinese one
I actually can't understand how this is even slightly a big deal. Comm got DQed (hopefully just from the qualifier) for cheating (the system) and the other Chinese players didn't register fast enough (qualifier was first register, first serve, which is fine by me).
MLG did a shitty job of the qualifiers, but the Chinese players have nothing more to complain about than anybody else does.
Obviously there should have been at LEAST a 1024 player bracket and MLG have come from this event looking like a pack of incompetent arseholes, but Chinese players in particular didn't get treated any differently to anybody else.
On April 24 2013 12:38 Arceus wrote: you guys actually think the starcraft scene there might grow if these few Chineses have some successes in WCS?
No, not until Blizzard adds LAN (aka never) because the mass audience in China just refuse to buy the game and pirate instead. A few dozens of (mediocre) players like Jim, Xigua cant/wont keep the scene alive & developing
Meanwhile the Taiwanese scene seems ok with all these teams & leagues. Pretty sure they might wanna regard themselves as a different entity than the Chinese one
The Taiwanese scene is worse than the Chinese one skill wise.
But I do agree with SC 2 being finished in China. It isn't even about it being free / not free. China simply isn't into RTS games.
LoL is the biggest competitive game in China, and Dota 2 is hopefully going to get a shot. That's it.
On April 24 2013 07:36 t e a C h e r wrote: How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Have you registered a Chinese sc2 account before? Have you ever tried to connect to the Chinese server from outside of China or connected to a server outside of China from China?
Have you done anything except posted skeptical, borderline troll posts on teamliquid.net?
The bottom line is the WCS is known as the World Championship Series. The term "world" implies that every country that has players will participate in it. Hell, even PandaTank from South Africa tried his luck in the WCS EU Qualifiers and I believe made it to the round of 16 one day.
Long story short, this paragraph is bolded because it is exactly things like this (and skeptics like you) that is keeping eSports from growing, and China has the second largest economy in the world and is the only one that can come close to beating the USA in the Olympics. Imagine if eSports had more players from China and that more and more players from China were taking place in tournaments like NASL, IEM, and so on. Imagine if the player-base in China were ten times larger from starcraft 2 becoming a free to play game (like LoL). This would create a potentially huge market for eSports. There has been more investment in SC2 in China in the year 2012 than any year before it, but if you even think I am wrong, go ahead and reply to this post. I will not even bother trying to shoot you down because I have no more time to waste with you.
On April 24 2013 11:23 Kim Hyuna wrote:
FYI, it says:
"FUCK HIS MUM" "I CAN'T ENDURE THIS TYPE OF SHIT FROM MLG" "I'M GOING TO SEEK AN EXPLANATION".
Pretty epic lol!
I am so sorry this had to happen. in the red text, that is the actual coach of team iG. I want to seek a statement from him as well.
It's very unprofessional for a big renowned team like IG to get someone's mum into the picture.
On the bright side, "chinese people are very faithful and trusting people".
On April 24 2013 07:36 t e a C h e r wrote: How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Have you registered a Chinese sc2 account before? Have you ever tried to connect to the Chinese server from outside of China or connected to a server outside of China from China?
Have you done anything except posted skeptical, borderline troll posts on teamliquid.net?
The bottom line is the WCS is known as the World Championship Series. The term "world" implies that every country that has players will participate in it. Hell, even PandaTank from South Africa tried his luck in the WCS EU Qualifiers and I believe made it to the round of 16 one day.
Long story short, this paragraph is bolded because it is exactly things like this (and skeptics like you) that is keeping eSports from growing, and China has the second largest economy in the world and is the only one that can come close to beating the USA in the Olympics. Imagine if eSports had more players from China and that more and more players from China were taking place in tournaments like NASL, IEM, and so on. Imagine if the player-base in China were ten times larger from starcraft 2 becoming a free to play game (like LoL). This would create a potentially huge market for eSports. There has been more investment in SC2 in China in the year 2012 than any year before it, but if you even think I am wrong, go ahead and reply to this post. I will not even bother trying to shoot you down because I have no more time to waste with you.
On April 24 2013 11:23 Kim Hyuna wrote:
FYI, it says:
"FUCK HIS MUM" "I CAN'T ENDURE THIS TYPE OF SHIT FROM MLG" "I'M GOING TO SEEK AN EXPLANATION".
Pretty epic lol!
I am so sorry this had to happen. in the red text, that is the actual coach of team iG. I want to seek a statement from him as well.
It's very unprofessional for a big renowned team like IG to get someone's mum into the picture.
On the bright side, "chinese people are very faithful and trusting people".
So you are implying Chinese people are not very faithful and trusting people. Cool stuff bro.
The biggest fucking issue I have at the moment is HoTS is STILL NOT RELEASED on the Chinese server.
I can login to my NA account on a different SC client and play HoTS (albeit at ~300ms ping) just fine, but when I bought a copy of WoL for the Chinese server, I was promised a free upgrade to HoTS. Blizzard's decision to delay HoTS release for China indefinitely (still no official date of release) pisses me off as a player and viewer.
How can Chinese players practice properly, faced with either an obsolete WoL client or 300-400ms ping playing on other servers?
I've never really lashed out at Blizzard before, but fuck, they really fucked up this time.
How is it Comm's fault that he played on the account of another person, who consented to this? Yes, it's against the rules to do so, but he wouldn't have had to if MLG had included the Chinese players in the bracket. I won't say the DQ was wrong or right, but it's unfair to say Comm could have done anything about his situation that he didn't already try.
On April 24 2013 07:36 t e a C h e r wrote: How is EU unplayable for the chinese? Its right below russia, Ur telling me the russians have bad ping to EU server? Or you know this because you lived in china, and played sc2 there? Im pretty sure the chinese are closer to EU, than across the pacific all the way to america.
Have you registered a Chinese sc2 account before? Have you ever tried to connect to the Chinese server from outside of China or connected to a server outside of China from China?
Have you done anything except posted skeptical, borderline troll posts on teamliquid.net?
The bottom line is the WCS is known as the World Championship Series. The term "world" implies that every country that has players will participate in it. Hell, even PandaTank from South Africa tried his luck in the WCS EU Qualifiers and I believe made it to the round of 16 one day.
Long story short, this paragraph is bolded because it is exactly things like this (and skeptics like you) that is keeping eSports from growing, and China has the second largest economy in the world and is the only one that can come close to beating the USA in the Olympics. Imagine if eSports had more players from China and that more and more players from China were taking place in tournaments like NASL, IEM, and so on. Imagine if the player-base in China were ten times larger from starcraft 2 becoming a free to play game (like LoL). This would create a potentially huge market for eSports. There has been more investment in SC2 in China in the year 2012 than any year before it, but if you even think I am wrong, go ahead and reply to this post. I will not even bother trying to shoot you down because I have no more time to waste with you.
On April 24 2013 11:23 Kim Hyuna wrote:
FYI, it says:
"FUCK HIS MUM" "I CAN'T ENDURE THIS TYPE OF SHIT FROM MLG" "I'M GOING TO SEEK AN EXPLANATION".
Pretty epic lol!
I am so sorry this had to happen. in the red text, that is the actual coach of team iG. I want to seek a statement from him as well.
It's very unprofessional for a big renowned team like IG to get someone's mum into the picture.
On the bright side, "chinese people are very faithful and trusting people".
So you are implying Chinese people are not very faithful and trusting people. Cool stuff bro.
I'm mocking people who think it's valid to group rather than consider the individual. I do make the exception of holding a low opinion on people who use the phrase "Cool stuff bro" however.
On April 24 2013 13:36 slowbacontron wrote: How is it Comm's fault that he played on the account of another person, who consented to this? Yes, it's against the rules to do so, but he wouldn't have had to if MLG had included the Chinese players in the bracket. I won't say the DQ was wrong or right, but it's unfair to say Comm could have done anything about his situation that he didn't already try.
How about trying to be the among first 512 people to register for WCS AMericas Season 2? Not that we'll see the same system used then.
On April 24 2013 06:04 hellokittySC2 wrote: i'm sure taiwanese teams would like to be separate from the chinese sc2 scene. and i'll be representing both USA and China in WCS NA
On April 24 2013 12:38 Arceus wrote: you guys actually think the starcraft scene there might grow if these few Chineses have some successes in WCS?
No, not until Blizzard adds LAN (aka never) because the mass audience in China just refuse to buy the game and pirate instead. A few dozens of (mediocre) players like Jim, Xigua cant/wont keep the scene alive & developing
Meanwhile the Taiwanese scene seems ok with all these teams & leagues. Pretty sure they might wanna regard themselves as a different entity than the Chinese one
Ha, time is different now, We got millions of people on line when Wol release. SC2 in china sold at very cheap price.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Sorry if this was already discussed but what I don't get is this: Is 3 players check in at the same time -and let's not mention that they were said good to go- how can one of them get in? If they were too late then none of them should've made it. If one of them made it how come the other too were too late?
I'm not even gonna start to think about the DQ, and HyuN and those maphackers fools, etc.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
To be fair, the article doesn't say the corruption in China is because 'chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done,' which is a gross stereotype you brought up based on personal experience/bias.
I cannot even believe the amounts of idiocy there is here. The OP is top-tier and gives a nice (different) perspective on the matter. While it IS Comm's fault that he didn't immediately tell admins and get approval, I don't really care much about it personally. But, to actually say that the Chinese were at fault is absurd. Now, I did not check personally, but was there any way to actually SEE if you were in the top 512? So, if you are a foreigner, and you did your best to read the rules and shit for the tournament, and you feel like you've followed them, but see there still a problem, asking an admin about it is probably a good course of action. That's what Edison did, and he actually got CONFIRMATION. But, you know what? Nothing actually changed and they were gimped. Sorry, that isn't the Chinese' fault. For those that did not receive confirmation, it's still silly. The scenario should never even be POSSIBLE. Quit filling all of these threads with your retardation. PLEASE.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Thank god you really read this wiki page? Lol, i don't even bother to click it..
On April 24 2013 13:35 EngrishTeacher wrote: The biggest fucking issue I have at the moment is HoTS is STILL NOT RELEASED on the Chinese server.
I can login to my NA account on a different SC client and play HoTS (albeit at ~300ms ping) just fine, but when I bought a copy of WoL for the Chinese server, I was promised a free upgrade to HoTS. Blizzard's decision to delay HoTS release for China indefinitely (still no official date of release) pisses me off as a player and viewer.
How can Chinese players practice properly, faced with either an obsolete WoL client or 300-400ms ping playing on other servers?
I've never really lashed out at Blizzard before, but fuck, they really fucked up this time.
So, wait, has it been confirmed that everyone who bought a WoL account in China gets a free upgrade to HoTS? Link?
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.[/QUOTE]
On April 24 2013 13:35 EngrishTeacher wrote: The biggest fucking issue I have at the moment is HoTS is STILL NOT RELEASED on the Chinese server.
I can login to my NA account on a different SC client and play HoTS (albeit at ~300ms ping) just fine, but when I bought a copy of WoL for the Chinese server, I was promised a free upgrade to HoTS. Blizzard's decision to delay HoTS release for China indefinitely (still no official date of release) pisses me off as a player and viewer.
How can Chinese players practice properly, faced with either an obsolete WoL client or 300-400ms ping playing on other servers?
I've never really lashed out at Blizzard before, but fuck, they really fucked up this time.
So, wait, has it been confirmed that everyone who bought a WoL account in China gets a free upgrade to HoTS? Link?
On April 24 2013 13:35 EngrishTeacher wrote: The biggest fucking issue I have at the moment is HoTS is STILL NOT RELEASED on the Chinese server.
I can login to my NA account on a different SC client and play HoTS (albeit at ~300ms ping) just fine, but when I bought a copy of WoL for the Chinese server, I was promised a free upgrade to HoTS. Blizzard's decision to delay HoTS release for China indefinitely (still no official date of release) pisses me off as a player and viewer.
How can Chinese players practice properly, faced with either an obsolete WoL client or 300-400ms ping playing on other servers?
I've never really lashed out at Blizzard before, but fuck, they really fucked up this time.
So, wait, has it been confirmed that everyone who bought a WoL account in China gets a free upgrade to HoTS? Link?
On April 24 2013 13:35 EngrishTeacher wrote: The biggest fucking issue I have at the moment is HoTS is STILL NOT RELEASED on the Chinese server.
I can login to my NA account on a different SC client and play HoTS (albeit at ~300ms ping) just fine, but when I bought a copy of WoL for the Chinese server, I was promised a free upgrade to HoTS. Blizzard's decision to delay HoTS release for China indefinitely (still no official date of release) pisses me off as a player and viewer.
How can Chinese players practice properly, faced with either an obsolete WoL client or 300-400ms ping playing on other servers?
I've never really lashed out at Blizzard before, but fuck, they really fucked up this time.
So, wait, has it been confirmed that everyone who bought a WoL account in China gets a free upgrade to HoTS? Link?
I wrote so many 'long' and thoughtful replies, but in the end I can leave my reply in this thread as the following and I guess the core of it is in.
MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void. I can understand that the qualifier cannot be re-run, but in theory it should be re-run. Even if you want to give MLG the benefit of the doubt which would include not knowing that more than 512 people want to sign up and thus excluding various chinese players and not knowing that PhysicsLee was a known hacker, then you are still left with the following problem:
Hyun beat players and took their chance from qualifying. Everyone who played Hyun could have advanced further so that part of the bracket is invalid from that point on. Every player Comm beat could potentially be further in the tournament and/or advanced. The most 'outstanding' example is probably hendralisk, who could potentially beat the StC, at least you cannot call him out for only having a 0,01% chance of doing so.
Not only did the disqualification of Comm lead to Apocalpyse being qualified with one less bo3 (Notice: DemusliM would have been qualified with one less bo3, so would any other player that lost in the last round before qualification) but also rendered the bracket void, as a disqualification based on their rule would lead to the assumption that he would not be allowed to be in from the very beginning.
Its a shame not just because chinese players were excluded, but for reference mostly because MLG has shown absolute disinterest and distaste handling the situation. I replied to Sundance's tweet 'Qualifier was not perfect, but too much uninformed information flying around' (something along those lines) with 'Calling it not perfect is an insult towards the community' which he replied to basically with 'the mistakes we made will be fixed'
One day later I see an apology that is basically empty words, doesn't adress the real problems to prevent the users that are not aware of the issue, will not be aware of them after the apology, because that would make MLG look bad. I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG and on the other hand thinks this is a case where you could have an opinion.
I can guarantee you, every professional tournament organizes would judge/rate this tournament void/invalid. Shame really.
South Korea is the backyard of USA, North Korea is the backyard of China.
But we can not deny that South Korea E-sport is better than any country in this world. The pro gamer in China means group of people without good education. Sometimes, they play dirty, fake game, trolling. What I can say? Chinese pro gamer is not professional in e-sport.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
Plesse don't be dumb.
All the information's on Wiki is based on transparency index site.
On April 24 2013 14:57 PLU_CN wrote: South Korea is the backyard of USA, North Korea is the backyard of China.
But we can not deny that South Korea E-sport is better than any country in this world. The pro gamer in China means group of people without good education. Sometimes, they play dirty, fake game, trolling. What I can say? Chinese pro gamer is not professional in e-sport.
Ha. you are trolling indeed? Because you are banned from Chinese web forum so you take your revenge here? PLU is a chinese web forum, if you really want to pretend you are someone name another name.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
Plesse don't be dumb.
All the information's on Wiki is based on transparency index site.
All the Wiki is based on people from internet. You really need some higher education.
On April 24 2013 14:57 PLU_CN wrote: South Korea is the backyard of USA, North Korea is the backyard of China.
But we can not deny that South Korea E-sport is better than any country in this world. The pro gamer in China means group of people without good education. Sometimes, they play dirty, fake game, trolling. What I can say? Chinese pro gamer is not professional in e-sport.
Ha. you are trolling indeed? Because you are banned from Chinese web forum so you take your revenge here? PLU is a chinese web forum, if you really want to pretend you are someone name another name.
Don't even bother, he has one post, posts shit immediately. Reported and he'll be banned I guess.
On April 24 2013 14:23 Blargh wrote: While it IS Comm's fault that he didn't immediately tell admins and get approval, I don't really care much about it personally.
I'm sure if Sundance had known you didn't really care much about it personally, all of this would have been avoided.
Quit filling all of these threads with your retardation. PLEASE.
If China wants a sustainable esports, scene, they need to start a national league. I don't see why, if sponsors and broadcasters are interested in joining, there would be no business venture for a national league. Why would they rely on a league on the other side of the world? It's not MLG's responsibility to save China.
Blaming MLG for ruining China is just more counterproductive hate mongering.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
Plesse don't be dumb.
All the information's on Wiki is based on transparency index site.
rofl...you really should not link wiki to prove your points. plus, corruption and korea are often related together as well and it's pretty well known. "the whole nation is corrupted" said by your President, Lee Myung-bak
On April 24 2013 15:11 Doc.Rivers wrote: If China wants a sustainable esports, scene, they need to start a national league. I don't see why, if sponsors and broadcasters are interested in joining, there would be no business venture for a national league. Why would they rely on a league on the other side of the world? It's not MLG's responsibility to save China.
Blaming MLG for ruining China is just more counterproductive hate mongering.
Jesus are you for real? Do you somehow feel that WCS 'NA' is entitled to the USA, because first of all, MLG runs it and seconldy it has NA in the name? Last years there was a WCS in every region/country (nearly) and now we got WCS Europe, WCS NA and WCS KR.
To participate in WCS KR you would have to be living there, because its offline. WCS EU the ping is too bad for the Chinese to participate. There is only the choice of playing in WCS NA for them. Also - who says there's no national league in China?
I'm in disbelief about the lacking respect in your post
On April 24 2013 15:11 Doc.Rivers wrote: If China wants a sustainable esports, scene, they need to start a national league. I don't see why, if sponsors and broadcasters are interested in joining, there would be no business venture for a national league. Why would they rely on a league on the other side of the world? It's not MLG's responsibility to save China.
Blaming MLG for ruining China is just more counterproductive hate mongering.
The Chinese players cares about WCS not MLG, unfortunately，WCS hold by MLG. We do have national league, G-league for example, But we need to come to somewhere have better SC2, just like all western Dota2 team want to join Chinese G-1 League. ( See the TL upcoming event. )
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
Plesse don't be dumb.
All the information's on Wiki is based on transparency index site.
rofl...you really should not link wiki to prove your points. plus, corruption and korea are often related together as well and it's pretty well known. "the whole nation is corrupted" said by your President, Lee Myung-bak
On April 24 2013 14:23 Blargh wrote: While it IS Comm's fault that he didn't immediately tell admins and get approval, I don't really care much about it personally.
I'm sure if Sundance had known you didn't really care much about it personally, all of this would have been avoided.
Quit filling all of these threads with your retardation. PLEASE.
Right back atcha.
Excuse my poor wording. Let me do you a favor and rephrase it.
"While it IS Comm's fault that he didn't immediately tell admins and get approval, I don't think was a huge deal and a DQ was a bit extreme considering the circumstances. Even without telling the people he faced who he was, I don't think any of them have played against Comm more than maybe once in their life. The only time anyone might have seen him would be from WCS, which was ages ago."
I'm deeply sorry you lacked the intellect to make out what I was trying to say, despite my wording. You should consider not being a prick for stupid things. It looks bad.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Just because something is in wikipedia doesnt mean its wrong. One thing wikipedia does well is provide sources. But must of You is too lazy to check.... http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN
They (transparency international) provide several scores/values. It does not look well for China (in regards to coruption). However how relevant it is for Starcraft would require anylysis and information gathering i dont have time to perform now.
On April 24 2013 15:11 Doc.Rivers wrote: If China wants a sustainable esports, scene, they need to start a national league. I don't see why, if sponsors and broadcasters are interested in joining, there would be no business venture for a national league. Why would they rely on a league on the other side of the world? It's not MLG's responsibility to save China.
Blaming MLG for ruining China is just more counterproductive hate mongering.
Jesus are you for real? Do you somehow feel that WCS 'NA' is entitled to the USA, because first of all, MLG runs it and seconldy it has NA in the name? Last years there was a WCS in every region/country (nearly) and now we got WCS Europe, WCS NA and WCS KR.
To participate in WCS KR you would have to be living there, because its offline. WCS EU the ping is too bad for the Chinese to participate. There is only the choice of playing in WCS NA for them. Also - who says there's no national league in China?
I'm in disbelief about the lacking respect in your post
I didn't say they shouldn't be able to participate in WCS NA. I said MLG can't be blamed for ruining China just because they didn't get to participate in WCS NA.
On April 24 2013 14:57 PLU_CN wrote: South Korea is the backyard of USA, North Korea is the backyard of China.
But we can not deny that South Korea E-sport is better than any country in this world. The pro gamer in China means group of people without good education. Sometimes, they play dirty, fake game, trolling. What I can say? Chinese pro gamer is not professional in e-sport.
Ha. you are trolling indeed? Because you are banned from Chinese web forum so you take your revenge here? PLU is a chinese web forum, if you really want to pretend you are someone name another name.
Yep, I am Chinese, so what I said is based on what I see in China. It is truth. And I don't know what you mean "by banned". PLU is my favor sc2 forum in China. You can not deny the people have different opinion.
On April 24 2013 15:11 Doc.Rivers wrote: If China wants a sustainable esports, scene, they need to start a national league. I don't see why, if sponsors and broadcasters are interested in joining, there would be no business venture for a national league. Why would they rely on a league on the other side of the world? It's not MLG's responsibility to save China.
Blaming MLG for ruining China is just more counterproductive hate mongering.
Jesus are you for real? Do you somehow feel that WCS 'NA' is entitled to the USA, because first of all, MLG runs it and seconldy it has NA in the name? Last years there was a WCS in every region/country (nearly) and now we got WCS Europe, WCS NA and WCS KR.
To participate in WCS KR you would have to be living there, because its offline. WCS EU the ping is too bad for the Chinese to participate. There is only the choice of playing in WCS NA for them. Also - who says there's no national league in China?
I'm in disbelief about the lacking respect in your post
I didn't say they shouldn't be able to participate in WCS NA. I said MLG can't be blamed for ruining China just because they didn't get to participate in WCS NA.
How so? The fact that Chinese players didn't participate is no ones but MLGs fault.
On April 24 2013 14:54 Type|NarutO wrote: MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void.
Switch to decaf.
Hyun beat players and took their chance from qualifying.
And if they had beat HyuN then not only would they have advanced instead, they would also have proven they really had a shot of earning money in this tournament.
This whole thing is such a First World problem.
The most 'outstanding' example is probably hendralisk
He's the one who got picked up by a team the day of the tournament, right? Or was it the next day? I'm all for making him the poster boy example for having his one golden moment in life stolen from him by this tournament.
Its a shame not just because chinese players were excluded, but for reference mostly because MLG has shown absolute disinterest and distaste handling the situation.
It is a shame, just like it's a shame so many in the SC2 community lack the life experience to understand the difference between message board post theory-crafting and why things in the real-world always fall way short of perfection.
I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG
Free advice, if you don't understand both sides of an issue then just remain quiet and listen. Making grand proclamations without knowledge and insight just makes you look silly. (And a nick like Type|NarutO doesn't help, though if it is a reference to Type O Negative then I give you slight credit. RIP Pete)
I can guarantee you, every professional tournament organizes would judge/rate this tournament void/invalid. Shame really.
Alright, let's call Blizzard and just tell them to void the checks and send all that WCS money to a good charity instead. Red Cross, cancer research, that sort of thing.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
Aha, did you actually go to university? Did your lecturer told you never use WIKI as reference? Anyone can edit the wiki, especially for the western anti Chinese government group. And don't make here a discuss of politics. If you want to discuss the politics, what i should say. Chinese government are corrupted, but they can defend their homeland with their our army, what South Korean do? Papa American? Wow, let US army stationing in your homeland? are you sure you are country or just a state of US? Ok, Stop talking about anything besides starcraft.
and，My friend from south korea if you feel uncomfortable with what i say, i will delete this.
Plesse don't be dumb.
All the information's on Wiki is based on transparency index site.
All the Wiki is based on people from internet. You really need some higher education.
Sigh.
Maybe you should do a index comparison between the actual facts stated in wiki and transparency international corruption perception index results.
dvorakftw, if you cannot attack any point within my argument, leave it. I am no poster that puts neither time nor effort in their posts. I am long enough around here to post constructive criticism and reasonable argumentation. If you could explain to my, how the mistakes that were made are in no way a reason to render the qualifier void, please enlighten me.
Right now, you are attacking me, but not my statements.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Just because something is in wikipedia doesnt mean its wrong. One thing wikipedia does well is provide sources. But must of You is to lazy to check.... http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN
They (transparency international) provide several scores/values. It does not look well for China (in regards to coruption). However how relevant it is for Starcraft would require anylysis and information gathering i dont have time to perform now.
Some people just don't learn to read. And insist his education is HIGHER than yours. Rofl. But i can't blame him. He's an aussie you see?
CN is one of the fastest moving country in terms of technology, population, manufacturing and etc.
And yet, corruption is one of the highest too. If he does read international news, the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China.
Seriously, who's poorer in education now? Read some news kids.
Let me give your some good read's about China corruption.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
Chinese players want to participate in WCS: NA, because they have no option in competing in Korea. First of all, you would have to be in Korea and secondly, even some (lots) Koreans don't want to compete in Korea and you really blame Chinese for taking their chance in WCS NA?
Tbh, China gets the very little out of the global play. Lagging to every direction, although it's not Blizzard's fault, rather the chinese goverment's fault.
On April 24 2013 15:33 namste wrote: Tbh, China gets the very little out of the global play. Lagging to every direction, although it's not Blizzard's fault, rather the chinese goverment's fault.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
On April 24 2013 15:20 Blargh wrote: I don't think was a huge deal and a DQ was a bit extreme considering the circumstances.
Which is a fine example of the difference between imagining yourself as an admin of a tournament among friendly, reasonable, happy-go-lucky people who all think like you and agree with you and actually running a business involving self-interested people competing for money and prizes. Lawyers love people who believe they can get by with gentlemen's agreements and hodge podge decision making.
On April 24 2013 15:20 Blargh wrote: I don't think was a huge deal and a DQ was a bit extreme considering the circumstances.
Which is a fine example of the difference between imagining yourself as an admin of a tournament among friendly, reasonable, happy-go-lucky people who all think like you and agree with you and actually running a business involving self-interested people competing for money and prizes. Lawyers love people who believe they can get by with gentlemen's agreements and hodge podge decision making.
Stop derailing the thread and attacking people. You have no counter-arguments.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
Chinese players want to participate in WCS: NA, because they have no option in competing in Korea. First of all, you would have to be in Korea and secondly, even some (lots) Koreans don't want to compete in Korea and you really blame Chinese for taking their chance in WCS NA?
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
As what I said
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Even if they are available to attend KR, they won't choose KR region.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
Chinese players want to participate in WCS: NA, because they have no option in competing in Korea. First of all, you would have to be in Korea and secondly, even some (lots) Koreans don't want to compete in Korea and you really blame Chinese for taking their chance in WCS NA?
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
And thats your reason to bash Chinese? What about MVP, MV, HyuN, TaeJa ... or all the other Koreans and/or people that switched region? They are progamers and first of all need to win. They will choose the region which is most likely to give them winnings more over a possible chance of fame.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Just because something is in wikipedia doesnt mean its wrong. One thing wikipedia does well is provide sources. But must of You is to lazy to check.... http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN
They (transparency international) provide several scores/values. It does not look well for China (in regards to coruption). However how relevant it is for Starcraft would require anylysis and information gathering i dont have time to perform now.
Some people just don't learn to read. And insist his education is HIGHER than yours. Rofl. But i can't blame him. He's an aussie you see?
CN is one of the fastest moving country in terms of technology, population, manufacturing and etc.
And yet, corruption is one of the highest too. If he does read international news, the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China.
Seriously, who's poorer in education now? Read some news kids.
Let me give your some good read's about China corruption.
See? With the recent Sichuan quake, HK refuses to aid them due to corruption surrounding China. It just show how heavily corrupted china are.
LOL, you really take a lot of attention to Chinese government. What we are arguing is wiki as reference, I knew corruption in China is petty bad. Generally speaking, western media always report negative part of China, and as Chinese living in the western country, you will laugh when you saw the news talking about Chinese story. It is media war, and you need read both side and decide which one is the truth. And you are right about Corruption, and i am so surprise you knew "the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China". It a long way to go.
For academic view，only the NYT one you listed can be seen as reference. LOL, i am trolling.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Even if they are available to attend KR, they won't choose KR region.
On April 24 2013 15:20 Blargh wrote: I don't think was a huge deal and a DQ was a bit extreme considering the circumstances.
Which is a fine example of the difference between imagining yourself as an admin of a tournament among friendly, reasonable, happy-go-lucky people who all think like you and agree with you and actually running a business involving self-interested people competing for money and prizes. Lawyers love people who believe they can get by with gentlemen's agreements and hodge podge decision making.
What did MLG gain from DQing Comm? Certainly not anything positive. They have failed to enforce other rules, on MANY occasions simply because they were not a big deal. But, these arguments have been made 100 times over in the 100 different threads half-related to it. I simply stated a logical reason why Comm shouldn't have been banned. Obviously, I am not in charge, so I do not have any say in it, but I can still make an argument against something.
It isn't totally black and white in this scenario. It's gray. Just like when there were matches being played where one person had a significant advantage, but then one of them cut out, the admins had to decide whether to regame or to give it to the player. If they want to be insanely strict on their rules, that's fine, but then they have to actually enforce every one of them and carry out everything professionally, otherwise, none of it means anything and it's full of failure. Mistakes happen, but when you hit someone's parked car, you have to pay for the damages you have done.
Hopefully, one day when I grow up, I'll be able to become an MLG admin!! Oh my, I'm letting my imagination run away with me!
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
Chinese players want to participate in WCS: NA, because they have no option in competing in Korea. First of all, you would have to be in Korea and secondly, even some (lots) Koreans don't want to compete in Korea and you really blame Chinese for taking their chance in WCS NA?
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
And thats your reason to bash Chinese? What about MVP, MV, HyuN, TaeJa ... or all the other Koreans and/or people that switched region? They are progamers and first of all need to win. They will choose the region which is most likely to give them winnings more over a possible chance of fame.
Every reasonable progamer would decide that way.
What I wanna explain is that IG team deserve this. Their team leader can not read English well , so their team member miss the chance to join the MLG party. But IG team leader wanna make excuse to MLG BOSS. It is ridiculous. They put EG for example, But EG's match history is way better than Chinese Team. So EG deserve to get the green ticket to attend WCS NA instead of IG. Look at COMM, who get out of WCS GuangZhou in the first round and use fake account to attend this year's WCS NA. Who is willing to give a free ticket to this kinda of team and player? I feel shamed on it.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Even if they are available to attend KR, they won't choose KR region.
xiaOt would be disappointed in your derogatory outlook on Chinese personality. xiaOt is still the manager of iG right? I remember specifically, when he was still a player, him saying that he could easily destroy any Korean player.
I'm sure there are Korean's that know they can beat top Koreans. The thing is, Korea is just harder. Not even top Koreans want to play in Korea if they don't have to. Anyone with opportunity would, and do, go to NA.
On April 24 2013 15:29 Type|NarutO wrote: dvorakftw, if you cannot attack any point within my argument, leave it. I am no poster that puts neither time nor effort in their posts. I am long enough around here to post constructive criticism and reasonable argumentation. If you could explain to my, how the mistakes that were made are in no way a reason to render the qualifier void, please enlighten me.
Right now, you are attacking me, but not my statements.
I'd sooner give consideration to something like "Marines should cost 500 minerals and be 6 supply each" than the idea the whole qualifier is void.
Shit happens. Unfortunately for MLG few if any want to defend them (including myself) and several groups with their own agendas have reason to rabble rouse.
Sundance already tweeted that they are working to address some of the problems but he was absolutely right when he said he could give away $5 and end up the asshole for not giving $10. It's much more fun to make demands and threats than to simply ask questions and voice displeasure.
On April 24 2013 15:33 namste wrote: Tbh, China gets the very little out of the global play. Lagging to every direction, although it's not Blizzard's fault, rather the chinese goverment's fault.
China still living in a mid-communist era.
That's not true. China is currently capitalist in economy, and social democracy in politics.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Just because something is in wikipedia doesnt mean its wrong. One thing wikipedia does well is provide sources. But must of You is to lazy to check.... http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN
They (transparency international) provide several scores/values. It does not look well for China (in regards to coruption). However how relevant it is for Starcraft would require anylysis and information gathering i dont have time to perform now.
Some people just don't learn to read. And insist his education is HIGHER than yours. Rofl. But i can't blame him. He's an aussie you see?
CN is one of the fastest moving country in terms of technology, population, manufacturing and etc.
And yet, corruption is one of the highest too. If he does read international news, the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China.
Seriously, who's poorer in education now? Read some news kids.
Let me give your some good read's about China corruption.
See? With the recent Sichuan quake, HK refuses to aid them due to corruption surrounding China. It just show how heavily corrupted china are.
LOL, you really take a lot of attention to Chinese government. What we are arguing is wiki as reference, I knew corruption in China is petty bad. Generally speaking, western media always report negative part of China, and as Chinese living in the western country, you will laugh when you saw the news talking about Chinese story. It is media war, and you need read both side and decide which one is the truth. And you are right about Corruption, and i am so surprise you knew "the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China". It a long way to go.
For academic view，only the NYT one you listed can be seen as reference. LOL, i am trolling.
What's wrong with paying attention to Chinese news/government? It's an knowledge to know what is going on around us. Wiki references are based on true source (most of the time).
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
As what I said
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Even if they are available to attend KR, they won't choose KR region.
xiaOt would be disappointed in your derogatory outlook on Chinese personality. xiaOt is still the manager of iG right? I remember specifically, when he was still a player, him saying that he could easily destroy any Korean player.
I'm sure there are Korean's that know they can beat top Koreans. The thing is, Korea is just harder. Not even top Koreans want to play in Korea if they don't have to. Anyone with opportunity would, and do, go to NA.
Don't speak about Chinese like they are scum plz.
haha . About XiaoT. Most of Chinese reckon he is a joke. He said he will attend GSL and beat Korean, then this guy disappear immediately. If you go to any Chinese SC forum mention XiaoT, they will tell this story, XiaoT is a joke.
IG is the best team in China, but IG doesn't have good reputation indeed.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
Chinese players want to participate in WCS: NA, because they have no option in competing in Korea. First of all, you would have to be in Korea and secondly, even some (lots) Koreans don't want to compete in Korea and you really blame Chinese for taking their chance in WCS NA?
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
And thats your reason to bash Chinese? What about MVP, MV, HyuN, TaeJa ... or all the other Koreans and/or people that switched region? They are progamers and first of all need to win. They will choose the region which is most likely to give them winnings more over a possible chance of fame.
Every reasonable progamer would decide that way.
What I wanna explain is that IG team deserve this. Their team leader can not read English well , so their team member miss the chance to join the MLG party. But IG team leader wanna make excuse to MLG BOSS. It is ridiculous. They put EG for example, But EG's match history is way better than Chinese Team. So EG deserve to get the green ticket to attend WCS NA instead of IG. Look at COMM, who get out of WCS GuangZhou in the first round and use fake account to attend this year's WCS NA. Who is willing to give a free ticket to this kinda of team and player? I feel shamed on it.
Unable to read english well is not an excuse for this. As a manager knowing the language barrel, he should take the initiative to get a translator to make sure things like this don't screw up.
Why Chinese pro gamer wanna attend WCS NA? Because there is no any piece of chance to win in WCS KR , even China has better network connection to KR instead of NA. Chinese pro team beg WCS NA a ticket because their own competition level is low, then why WCS NA wanna give you a green enter to WCS NA like EG?
You have to be physically available to play in Korea, as in you have to be at the studio and sit in the booth...
As what I said
No. What you reckon is reasonable in some way. But What I see in China and What I know from Chinese pro team is : even if they have chance to attend WCS KR, they are not willing to go. Because they can't beat Korean, so who wanna waste the flight fee, house leasing fee to attend a match you don't have any chance to win? Any e-sport team put benefit on the first place. that's the truth we can not deny.
But most of Chinese ( fans and pro gamer) think Chinese e-sport level is the same or higher than western country. That's the truth how they think and why they would like to attend WCS NA.
Even if they are available to attend KR, they won't choose KR region.
xiaOt would be disappointed in your derogatory outlook on Chinese personality. xiaOt is still the manager of iG right? I remember specifically, when he was still a player, him saying that he could easily destroy any Korean player.
I'm sure there are Korean's that know they can beat top Koreans. The thing is, Korea is just harder. Not even top Koreans want to play in Korea if they don't have to. Anyone with opportunity would, and do, go to NA.
Don't speak about Chinese like they are scum plz.
haha . About XiaoT. Most of Chinese reckon he is a joke. He said he will attend GSL and beat Korean, then this guy disappear immediately. If you go to any Chinese SC forum mention XiaoT, they will tell this story, XiaoT is a joke.
IG is the best team in China, but IG doesn't have good reputation indeed.
SC2 in china is a joke.
I would preferred to watch their DOTA2 teams instead of SC2. Their DOTA2 team has many local fan's plus it is HUGE in CN.
On April 24 2013 11:50 Kim Hyuna wrote: Although i'm an asian, i do agreed that the chinese is at fault on this.
Like some said, rules is rules. Nothing is bigger than rules.
And if he wants to play, register with his own nick and play. Not getting someone's nick instead.
Not to offense the chinese, but chinese tends to find easier way or short cut to get things done.
Why? i deal with them in real life many times.
Now you know why China is one of the most corrupted country worldwide.
Ha, OZ, alive, JYP, JD, all the korean guys are register after top 512 spot, so what MLG do? kick out some guy from the top 512 and give the spots to the seeded player, thats make the rule totally a joke. You should reserve your 64 seeded spot not rob the spots from the players who register earlier or just announce top 452 players register first get in the bracket. And don't say China is one the most corrupted country, same as yours.
...Because a link to a Wikipedia page is totally legit. Especially when it ranks China 80th out of 176 (that's above median, LOL): that is TOTALLY "one of the most corrupt"... That's like getting below the median on an exam and saying "I had one of the best scores on the test!"
Just because something is in wikipedia doesnt mean its wrong. One thing wikipedia does well is provide sources. But must of You is to lazy to check.... http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN
They (transparency international) provide several scores/values. It does not look well for China (in regards to coruption). However how relevant it is for Starcraft would require anylysis and information gathering i dont have time to perform now.
Some people just don't learn to read. And insist his education is HIGHER than yours. Rofl. But i can't blame him. He's an aussie you see?
CN is one of the fastest moving country in terms of technology, population, manufacturing and etc.
And yet, corruption is one of the highest too. If he does read international news, the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China.
Seriously, who's poorer in education now? Read some news kids.
Let me give your some good read's about China corruption.
See? With the recent Sichuan quake, HK refuses to aid them due to corruption surrounding China. It just show how heavily corrupted china are.
LOL, you really take a lot of attention to Chinese government. What we are arguing is wiki as reference, I knew corruption in China is petty bad. Generally speaking, western media always report negative part of China, and as Chinese living in the western country, you will laugh when you saw the news talking about Chinese story. It is media war, and you need read both side and decide which one is the truth. And you are right about Corruption, and i am so surprise you knew "the newly elected president of china already promised to wipe off the name of corruption out from China". It a long way to go.
For academic view，only the NYT one you listed can be seen as reference. LOL, i am trolling.
What's wrong with paying attention to Chinese news/government? It's an knowledge to know what is going on around us. Wiki references are based on true source (most of the time).
Nothing wrong, and as you said most of the time wiki is on true source make me happy, at least you already know wiki is not 100% truth guaranteed.
On April 24 2013 15:29 Type|NarutO wrote: dvorakftw, if you cannot attack any point within my argument, leave it. I am no poster that puts neither time nor effort in their posts. I am long enough around here to post constructive criticism and reasonable argumentation. If you could explain to my, how the mistakes that were made are in no way a reason to render the qualifier void, please enlighten me.
Right now, you are attacking me, but not my statements.
I'd sooner give consideration to something like "Marines should cost 500 minerals and be 6 supply each" than the idea the whole qualifier is void.
Shit happens. Unfortunately for MLG few if any want to defend them (including myself) and several groups with their own agendas have reason to rabble rouse.
Sundance already tweeted that they are working to address some of the problems but he was absolutely right when he said he could give away $5 and end up the asshole for not giving $10. It's much more fun to make demands and threats than to simply ask questions and voice displeasure.
If we don't get some answers about this whole fiasco I swear on my life I will boycott MLG. People say "omg you can't hate on them so much, look what they've done for E-Sports!" No. That is NOT how it works. Just because you have done well doesn't mean you accumulate a 'get-out-of-scandal-free card.' This is a HUGE issue and they better find some way of including the Chinese players in the WCS or I will, and I'm sure others eventually will, boycott MLG.
These Chinese pro players put a portion of their lives just into Starcraft, dedicated themselves to getting good so they can compete. They are clearly good enough to have qualified for the premier league, if enough of them were given the chance (or at least not disqualified in the final round). Anyone who thinks other than this is just completely and utterly insensitive. I'm not sure any of you know what its actually like in China, or trying to be a pro Chinese SC2 player.
MLG. Fix your shit, give these guys another chance like they RIGHTFULLY deserve.
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
On April 24 2013 15:52 Blargh wrote: They have failed to enforce other rules, on MANY occasions simply because they were not a big deal.
It isn't totally black and white in this scenario. It's gray.
Mistakes happen, but when you hit someone's parked car, you have to pay for the damages you have done.
See, the problem here is you go from gray to black and white. Comm and MLG and Blizzard all have to deal with many facts of the real world that prevent an easy ideal situation. You seem to start with the idea that Comm should have a chance to play and work the decision backwards from there. 'Hey it's gray so why not do what I prefer?'
I start from the position that if I were in charge of MLG/Blizzard/the World that any number of things would be done differently but the initial rule of not sharing info/accounts is one of if not the most important rules for an online tournament and that plus knowing there are consequences and potential legal issues involved with making exceptions means I say good luck to Comm (and everyone else who has grief in this event) but it's not anything worthy of pitchforks.
And work on your analogies. The 'game decision after disconnect' I snipped didn't illustrate your point and I can come up with hypotheticals where I wouldn't be responsible for damage to someone else's parked car (busting a windshield to rescue a baby inside on a hot day, car is parked next to a hydrant and there's a fire, it's blocking the road for an ambulance, etc.)
On April 24 2013 15:33 namste wrote: Tbh, China gets the very little out of the global play. Lagging to every direction, although it's not Blizzard's fault, rather the chinese goverment's fault.
China still living in a mid-communist era.
That's not true. China is currently capitalist in economy, and social democracy in politics.
Dude please quit the offtopic. Your post has little relevance to matters discussed and is flamebaiting.
Despite many wrongdoings and fuckups during the NA qualifier i feel like declaring the qualifier void rather than living with its biased outcome is much inferioir option. Imagine the outcry, imagine how people how already qualified would feel. No its a bad option.
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
LOL， when he said chinese sc2 is a joke, i suddenly have a feeling , he must be someone from china. The koreans what i know are polite and niceful.
On April 24 2013 15:33 namste wrote: Tbh, China gets the very little out of the global play. Lagging to every direction, although it's not Blizzard's fault, rather the chinese goverment's fault.
China still living in a mid-communist era.
That's not true. China is currently capitalist in economy, and social democracy in politics.
Dude please quit the offtopic. Your post has little relevance to matters discussed and is flamebaiting.
Despite many wrongdoings and fuckups during the NA qualifier i feel like declaring the qualifier void rather than living with its biased outcome is much inferioir option. Imagine the outcry, imagine how people how already qualified would feel. No its a bad option.
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
Dude, we are talking about professionalism. iG is a professional gaming team. Such lapse shouldn't even happen.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
Except that it was not entirely first come, first serve. They first went through the list of sign ups and allowed several players they perceive as professional gamers into that list.
On April 24 2013 15:29 Type|NarutO wrote: dvorakftw, if you cannot attack any point within my argument, leave it. I am no poster that puts neither time nor effort in their posts. I am long enough around here to post constructive criticism and reasonable argumentation. If you could explain to my, how the mistakes that were made are in no way a reason to render the qualifier void, please enlighten me.
Right now, you are attacking me, but not my statements.
I'd sooner give consideration to something like "Marines should cost 500 minerals and be 6 supply each" than the idea the whole qualifier is void.
Shit happens. Unfortunately for MLG few if any want to defend them (including myself) and several groups with their own agendas have reason to rabble rouse.
Sundance already tweeted that they are working to address some of the problems but he was absolutely right when he said he could give away $5 and end up the asshole for not giving $10. It's much more fun to make demands and threats than to simply ask questions and voice displeasure.
Why is it not void in your opinion?
Do I need to explain "Shit happens" in detail?
Kim Jong Un could blow up South Korea's internet connection resulting in actual Americans qualifying for WCS Americas and that would suck for the Koreans and I'd be all for arrangements to give them another chance but it would be idiotic to just call a do over and pretend the first never happened.
At worst, Comm and comrades have to do a better job getting registered for next season.
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
LOL， when he said chinese sc2 is a joke, i suddenly have a feeling , he must be someone from china. The koreans what i know are polite and niceful.
hey, you can not deny the people have the different opinion. Some Chinese like hiding the truth, some is not. I like the people who has courage to face the truth.
Look through the IG team. The pro gamer in China doesn't have good education include English education. That's why that event happen last week. IG team leader's own fault lead all the team member miss the chance to attend WCS NA. Except IG team leader, None of IG pro gamer can speak any English except "hello" "GG HF GL" "go".
Chinese esport member need improve their own quality and education level, instead of complaining the gov doesn't support the eSport.
Excellent article, shit went wrong in this qualifier that shouldn't have, a real shame, I'd personally be for replaying it with open bracket but that's logistically impossible
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
LOL， when he said chinese sc2 is a joke, i suddenly have a feeling , he must be someone from china. The koreans what i know are polite and niceful.
hey, you can not deny the people have the different opinion. Some Chinese like hiding the truth, some is not. I like the people who has courage to face the truth.
Look through the IG team. The pro gamer in China doesn't have good education include English education. That's why that event happen last week. IG team leader's own fault lead all the team member miss the chance to attend WCS NA. Except IG team leader, all of IG pro gamer can not speak any English. What they know is only "hello" "GG HF GL" "go".
Chinese esport member need improve their own quality and education level, instead of complaining the gov doesn't support the eSport.
On April 24 2013 15:29 Type|NarutO wrote: dvorakftw, if you cannot attack any point within my argument, leave it. I am no poster that puts neither time nor effort in their posts. I am long enough around here to post constructive criticism and reasonable argumentation. If you could explain to my, how the mistakes that were made are in no way a reason to render the qualifier void, please enlighten me.
Right now, you are attacking me, but not my statements.
I'd sooner give consideration to something like "Marines should cost 500 minerals and be 6 supply each" than the idea the whole qualifier is void.
Shit happens. Unfortunately for MLG few if any want to defend them (including myself) and several groups with their own agendas have reason to rabble rouse.
Sundance already tweeted that they are working to address some of the problems but he was absolutely right when he said he could give away $5 and end up the asshole for not giving $10. It's much more fun to make demands and threats than to simply ask questions and voice displeasure.
Why is it not void in your opinion?
Do I need to explain "Shit happens" in detail?
Kim Jong Un could blow up South Korea's internet connection resulting in actual Americans qualifying for WCS Americas and that would suck for the Koreans and I'd be all for arrangements to give them another chance but it would be idiotic to just call a do over and pretend the first never happened.
At worst, Comm and comrades have to do a better job getting registered for next season.
'Shit happens' does not make the tournament valid. If anything, it makes it invalid. Your comparison is lacking, because it was the organizers fault that the tournament was made void, not the players fault. Letting HyuN and a hacker play even moreso than not letting Chinese participate.
You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are.
You're a bloody fool. Honestly saddens me that we have people like this on TL. You wouldn't be saying 'shit happens' if you were in their shoes. How about a little sympathy? Look how many tournaments the Chinese players actually HAVE participated in and had the opportunity to participate in? There is no room for a 'whoops better luck next time' in the fucking WCS. The BIGGEST Starcraft 2 organized tournament/league whatever, EVER! How can you make the argument 'shit happens' when a whole bunch of PROFESSIONAL SC2 players can not even ATTEMPT to qualify for the PREMIER STARCRAFT 2 TOURNAMENT OF THE WHOLE WORLD??? WTF ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? LOL.
my god, you really are an idiot. No sir, there is no 'shit happens' when it comes to a situation like this, and you'd be a fool to believe that.
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
LOL， when he said chinese sc2 is a joke, i suddenly have a feeling , he must be someone from china. The koreans what i know are polite and niceful.
hey, you can not deny the people have the different opinion. Some Chinese like hiding the truth, some is not. I like the people who has courage to face the truth.
Look through the IG team. The pro gamer in China doesn't have good education include English education. That's why that event happen last week. IG team leader's own fault lead all the team member miss the chance to attend WCS NA. Except IG team leader, all of IG pro gamer can not speak any English. What they know is only "hello" "GG HF GL" "go".
Chinese esport member need improve their own quality and education level, instead of complaining the gov doesn't support the eSport.
Quote for truth.
Hey this Korean friend. Do you know what IG team leader (IG.EdIsOn) said in his blog?
He feel unfair why Korean get chance to attend WCS NA, and he call Korean as "棒子"， You can google it whether this is truth and google what's "棒子" mean in Chinese.
This is the education level of Chinese esport pro gamer . As a Chinese , I apologize what he did and what he said. I feel shamed on him.
On April 24 2013 16:40 Type|NarutO wrote: 'Shit happens' does not make the tournament valid. If anything, it makes it invalid. Your comparison is lacking, because it was the organizers fault that the tournament was made void, not the players fault. Letting HyuN and a hacker play even moreso than not letting Chinese participate.
You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are.
Comm has no responsibility for registering before 512 other people did. HyuN has no responsibility for knowing if he was eligible. The hacker has no responsibility to not be scum. Got it.
On April 24 2013 16:40 Type|NarutO wrote: 'Shit happens' does not make the tournament valid. If anything, it makes it invalid. Your comparison is lacking, because it was the organizers fault that the tournament was made void, not the players fault. Letting HyuN and a hacker play even moreso than not letting Chinese participate.
You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are.
Comm has no responsibility for registering before 512 other people did. HyuN has no responsibility for knowing if he was eligible. The hacker has no responsibility to not be scum. Got it.
you seem to not even know what a FAIR competition is. and why it's on the organisation running the tournament to ensure it's integrity.
This thread is infested by people who want to derail the topic, so badly.
Let's stop talking about whether Chinese are good at English or not.
China needs a better care from Blizzard, they have potential to get at least few world-class players. But they have one of the harshest environment to make that push. And Blizzard is not making it any easier.
In BW they managed to grow the best foreign scene, they had 2 succesful (relatively to everyone non-korea) players (LX, PJ). I don't need to remember who knocked out Savior from WCG right? We are talking here about achievements that stand above most in history of foreign BW. Yet its so annoying to see, that China can't get the recognition they deserve (unless its DOTA/WC3).
"According to a 2003 survey conducted by the Hong Kong-based Political and Economic Risk Consultancy, despite being one of the countries in Asia that spends the most money on English-language education, South Korea ranks the lowest among 12 Asian countries in English ability."
why he can't generalise about koreans when you generalise about chinese?
LOL， when he said chinese sc2 is a joke, i suddenly have a feeling , he must be someone from china. The koreans what i know are polite and niceful.
hey, you can not deny the people have the different opinion. Some Chinese like hiding the truth, some is not. I like the people who has courage to face the truth.
Look through the IG team. The pro gamer in China doesn't have good education include English education. That's why that event happen last week. IG team leader's own fault lead all the team member miss the chance to attend WCS NA. Except IG team leader, all of IG pro gamer can not speak any English. What they know is only "hello" "GG HF GL" "go".
Chinese esport member need improve their own quality and education level, instead of complaining the gov doesn't support the eSport.
Quote for truth.
Hey this Korean friend. Do you know what IG team leader (IG.EdIsOn) said in his blog?
He feel unfair why Korean get chance to attend WCS NA, and he call Korean as "棒子"， You can google it whether this is truth and google what's "棒子" mean in Chinese.
This is the education level of Chinese esport pro gamer . As a Chinese , I apologize what he did and what he said. I feel shamed on him.
That's not esport spirit.
I know what it means. 棒子 or stick is what the Chinese love to call on Korean.
On April 24 2013 16:40 Type|NarutO wrote: 'Shit happens' does not make the tournament valid. If anything, it makes it invalid. Your comparison is lacking, because it was the organizers fault that the tournament was made void, not the players fault. Letting HyuN and a hacker play even moreso than not letting Chinese participate.
You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are.
Comm has no responsibility for registering before 512 other people did. HyuN has no responsibility for knowing if he was eligible. The hacker has no responsibility to not be scum. Got it.
The hacker has responsibility for himself. That doesn't mean the organization that is actually running the event can sit back and let him register and participate in the tournament. Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
HyuN first of all probably should be aware that he couldn't participate, but thats a small fault on his side compared to what it leads when MLG makes such a fault. When you call out Comm on registering after 512, I'll name Macsed, Jim and XY that did well before and also checked - in.
They got not put into the grid. Counterargument on your side? I don't see any.
Wouldn't it make more sense for blizzard to make WCS GSL have online qualifiers? Then chinese players (and australian) can have good latency and they don't have to fly to the other side of the world if they qualify. It doesn't seem to make sense for WCS NA to be the tournament that has to invite the best players of every region.
On April 24 2013 16:59 syllogism wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense for blizzard to make WCS GSL have online qualifiers? Then chinese players (and australian) can have good latency and they don't have to fly to the other side of the world if they qualify. It doesn't seem to make sense for WCS NA to be the tournament that has to invite the best players of every region.
Neither NA nor EU do have infrastructure and system to host it in a way Korea does. Blizzards goal is working towards that so the qualifiers can be mainly played offline. Why would you want to change the Korean system, because I can guarantee you, no one outside of Korea would actually want to choose Korea as their region.
While you might be right, that there still should be the option to do so, I think working towards the initial goal is the better plan.
So once the regional WCS have offline qualifiers, chinese players are going to be in an even worse position than right now, because it seems unlikely for their teams to pay thousands of dollars per player just to give them a chance at qualifying and there is no way the tournament is paying that. They would have to stick WCS GSL.
They range from how the Chinese are cowards for not flying to Korea and playing in the Code B qualifiers there (lol...), to how China is a corrupt country (jesus christ, what does this have to do with SC2)?
Honestly if they're smart, they should just retire. If they have no chance of getting into WCS, and if their national tournaments are few in number, then there really isn't any point in playing or whining in blogs for that matter.
You're a bloody fool. Honestly saddens me that we have people like this on TL.
Well, we can't all be intelligent thoughtful posters like you.
You wouldn't be saying 'shit happens' if you were in their shoes.
You want to bet? Here, I'll share something with everyone here. You of course have no way to know this is true, but it is and even if it weren't I think it would still prove the point.
One day my Dad comes to school and pulls me out of 5th grade to tell me my Mom has been diagnosed with cancer and it's okay to cry. I don't cry because I'm a dumb kid with no experience so "cancer" doesn't truly mean anything to me other than it must be a bad thing or my Dad wouldn't have said that. My Mom does years of chemo, has more bad days than good, and dies a few years later.
Shit. Happens.
If I could write a list of a hundred billion trillion things wrong in this world I still would be nowhere near ready to add the problems of this WCS.
How about a little sympathy?
My sympathy drawfs your perspective by magnitudes.
Look how many tournaments the Chinese players actually HAVE participated in and had the opportunity to participate in? There is no room for a 'whoops better luck next time' in the fucking WCS.
Really? Next season already cancelled? Blizzard decided to stop wasting their money on eSports for people who bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch?
The BIGGEST Starcraft 2 organized tournament/league whatever, EVER! How can you make the argument 'shit happens' when a whole bunch of PROFESSIONAL SC2 players can not even ATTEMPT to qualify for the PREMIER STARCRAFT 2 TOURNAMENT OF THE WHOLE WORLD??? WTF ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? LOL.
my god, you really are an idiot. No sir, there is no 'shit happens' when it comes to a situation like this, and you'd be a fool to believe that.
Hallelujah I have seen the light! The insults and gratuitous use of CAPITALIZATION has convinced me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter
You wouldn't be saying 'shit happens' if you were in their shoes.
You want to bet? Here, I'll share something with everyone here. You of course have no way to know this is true, but it is and even if it weren't I think it would still prove the point.
One day my Dad comes to school and pulls me out of 5th grade to tell me my Mom has been diagnosed with cancer and it's okay to cry. I don't cry because I'm a dumb kid with no experience so "cancer" doesn't truly mean anything to me other than it must be a bad thing or my Dad wouldn't have said that. My Mom does years of chemo, has more bad days than good, and dies a few years later.
Shit. Happens.
If I could write a list of a hundred billion trillion things wrong in this world I still would be nowhere near ready to add the problems of this WCS.
Look how many tournaments the Chinese players actually HAVE participated in and had the opportunity to participate in? There is no room for a 'whoops better luck next time' in the fucking WCS.
Really? Next season already cancelled? Blizzard decided to stop wasting their money on eSports for people who bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch?
The BIGGEST Starcraft 2 organized tournament/league whatever, EVER! How can you make the argument 'shit happens' when a whole bunch of PROFESSIONAL SC2 players can not even ATTEMPT to qualify for the PREMIER STARCRAFT 2 TOURNAMENT OF THE WHOLE WORLD??? WTF ARE YOU EVEN SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? LOL.
my god, you really are an idiot. No sir, there is no 'shit happens' when it comes to a situation like this, and you'd be a fool to believe that.
Hallelujah I have seen the light! The insults and gratuitous use of CAPITALIZATION has convinced me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter
so all you are basically saying is: there is a problem, but let's just ignore it and move on. i know some of these chinese pro gamers since their WC3 days and it saddens me that they have no choice but to quit pro gaming because an organisation fails at hosting a simple, fair online tournament.
On April 24 2013 17:20 syllogism wrote: At least MLG tried, where is the outrage at WCS GSL? Perhaps it would be best for MLG to stick to offline qualifiers from now on
at least they tried? wtf... every western e-sports organisation could host a better qualifier than the mess MLG did.
Code A qualifiers have been like this since the start of sc2. there is NO need to change it. stop shifting blame to WCS KR.... it's useless.
On April 24 2013 17:20 syllogism wrote: At least MLG tried, where is the outrage at WCS GSL? Perhaps it would be best for MLG to stick to offline qualifiers from now on
at least they tried? wtf... every western e-sports organisation could host a better qualifier than the mess MLG did.
Code A qualifiers have been like this since the start of sc2. there is NO need to change it. stop shifting blame to WCS KR.... it's useless.
I'm not shifting blame. I'm probing to see how irrational the positions of some of the posters are. What do you mean there is no need to change it? It would de facto be a better system as it would allow all asian players to have good pings and wouldn't need to travel far if they qualify. Just saying that it has been like that and that there is "no need" to change it a completely meaningless statement.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
In my early days of internet forum posting, this sort of comment was my absolute favorite. The debate equivalent of winning the lottery. I would that statement and drop about thirty examples on you from the biggest sports in the world to things like Scrabble and tidleywinks to stuff you don't normally even think of like pumpkin growing contests and stamp collecting.
Of course it was always for my own amusement because I knew from the start I wouldn't change anyone's mind just like I know I won't change your mind.
I've no hates against chinese or team iG, just from personal pov.
成韩国人为“棒子”，这种种族主义行为实在无法忍受。
this type of answer from a well respected team is unbearable.
Finnally got you,成，称~~u must be using pinyin input..don't protented to be Korean anymore, you are chinese.
I think there's something call google translate and something call copy and paste.
Keep your trolling else where.
the two diferent word never be the same, since they can type as "cheng" in pinyin, Google translate never translate word pronouces same but have diferent meanings.
On April 24 2013 17:20 syllogism wrote: At least MLG tried, where is the outrage at WCS GSL? Perhaps it would be best for MLG to stick to offline qualifiers from now on
at least they tried? wtf... every western e-sports organisation could host a better qualifier than the mess MLG did.
Code A qualifiers have been like this since the start of sc2. there is NO need to change it. stop shifting blame to WCS KR.... it's useless.
I'm not shifting blame. I'm probing to see how irrational the positions of some of the posters are. What do you mean there is no need to change it? It would de facto be a better system as it would allow all asian players to have good pings and wouldn't need to travel far if they qualify. Just saying that it has been like that and that there is "no need" to change it a completely meaningless statement.
how is it fair to let all asian play on KR when even the koreans are trying to avoid the KR qualifier whenever possible? if you take the Code A qualifier from korea i guess it would have a big negative impact on sc2 in korea, too. so why do such a dumb thing? a separate WCS asian qualifier would be the best solution for sure, there is no doubt here. but we have the WCS defined as KR, EU and NA. where EU includes africa and middle east and NA includes oceania and rest of asia because KR is offline. this is blizzards fault yes, but you can't ignore that given this situation the NA qualifier has to be treated as the asian qualifier. there is no point arguing this.
I've no hates against chinese or team iG, just from personal pov.
成韩国人为“棒子”，这种种族主义行为实在无法忍受。
this type of answer from a well respected team is unbearable.
Finnally got you,成，称~~u must be using pinyin input..don't protented to be Korean anymore, you are chinese.
I think there's something call google translate and something call copy and paste.
Keep your trolling else where.
the two diferent word never be the same, since they can type as "cheng" in pinyin, Google translate never translate word pronouces same but have diferent meanings.
learn to google translate. probably you should try it out and feedback here since you already claimed wiki is pure references.
i'm not surprised anyway. speaking of education. i guess you don't even have basic knowledge.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
In my early days of internet forum posting, this sort of comment was my absolute favorite. The debate equivalent of winning the lottery. I would that statement and drop about thirty examples on you from the biggest sports in the world to things like Scrabble and tidleywinks to stuff you don't normally even think of like pumpkin growing contests and stamp collecting.
Of course it was always for my own amusement because I knew from the start I wouldn't change anyone's mind just like I know I won't change your mind.
"There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see." -someone famous I'm sure
You pick the posts you like, right? I mean its a sign of you being a good person in speech and discussion, because no one would attack an argument they cannot beat. I brought up valid points why this qualifier is void, but still cannot be re-played. All you had to say against it was 'shit happens'.
As long as you cannot bring an argument as to why this qualifier should be seen as valid, I see no use in argueing with you. I took time and posted with effort. I did never blindly bash MLG not was I insulting towards anyone here. So if you would take your criticism and generalization out of it, I'd gladly appreciate it.
You totally miss the point, I'm not saying mistakes cannot happen. I'm not saying MLG should burn. I'm saying that we as a community cannot go silent on the issue. Mistakes like that may in fact not happen in professional eSports and especially not to a company as big as MLG. While its easy to say, I can understand from a company's point that shit does in fact happen (as you said) but that seriously doesn't mean that an apology that leaves the users that are not informed about the issue will be uninformed after the apology which in itself means:
The apology doesn't relate to the most important points. The apology is nothing but public relation empty words.
It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me.
On April 24 2013 17:15 fleeze wrote: so all you are basically saying is: there is a problem, but let's just ignore it and move on. i know some of these chinese pro gamers since their WC3 days and it saddens me that they have no choice but to quit pro gaming because an organisation fails at hosting a simple, fair online tournament.
Because the only two options available to everyone is silent acquiesce or DESTROY MLG AND SUNDANCE'S SOLID GOLD LAMBORGHINI.
And anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
But hey if we want to engage in melodramatic pathos then I want to make an appeal to you on behalf of the hundreds of millions of Chinese and the billions of Indians, Africans, Muslims, general poor people, and miscellaneous others who would enjoy just playing a video game in the first place let alone consider the possibility of making a living doing it. Where are the tournaments for them?
I already can't sleep because of insomnia and now I have to deal with this!
Great post dude! I really enjoyed the read. I would love to learn more about the China scene and help out by any means I can. If anyone's interested, PM me and we can chat more for me to help =D
On April 24 2013 17:15 fleeze wrote: so all you are basically saying is: there is a problem, but let's just ignore it and move on. i know some of these chinese pro gamers since their WC3 days and it saddens me that they have no choice but to quit pro gaming because an organisation fails at hosting a simple, fair online tournament.
Because the only two options available to everyone is silent acquiesce or DESTROY MLG AND SUNDANCE'S SOLID GOLD LAMBORGHINI.
And anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
But hey if we want to engage in melodramatic pathos then I want to make an appeal to you on behalf of the hundreds of millions of Chinese and the billions of Indians, Africans, Muslims, general poor people, and miscellaneous others who would enjoy just playing a video game in the first place let alone consider the possibility of making a living doing it. Where are the tournaments for them?
I already can't sleep because of insomnia and now I have to deal with this!
did you even read the OP? if you focus on the only tournament there will be for the next month in your country and arent even allowed to play because of some fuck ups, it's easy to not see any perspective and lose hope.
On April 24 2013 17:35 Type|NarutO wrote: not was I insulting towards anyone here. .... It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me.
"Everyone sees themselves as the hero." - some other famous guy
While its easy to say, I can understand from a company's point that shit does in fact happen
You from a few pages back
I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG
Just imagine you are the MLG CEO. What are you doing to satisfy my complaints? Look where I have you saying one thing and then I quote you somewhere else saying the opposite.
I demand you delete every previous post you made. They are void and invalid. Your reasons and explanations don't mean anything to me. I want you to agree with me and do what I want. Now.
Oh sure you told me you are working to fix things but that's not good enough. I demand instant satisfaction. Give it to me now. Not next week. Not tomorrow. Not in five minutes. Give it to me. I will not be silent. Delete your posts. They are invalid.
On April 24 2013 17:15 fleeze wrote: so all you are basically saying is: there is a problem, but let's just ignore it and move on. i know some of these chinese pro gamers since their WC3 days and it saddens me that they have no choice but to quit pro gaming because an organisation fails at hosting a simple, fair online tournament.
Because the only two options available to everyone is silent acquiesce or DESTROY MLG AND SUNDANCE'S SOLID GOLD LAMBORGHINI.
And anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
But hey if we want to engage in melodramatic pathos then I want to make an appeal to you on behalf of the hundreds of millions of Chinese and the billions of Indians, Africans, Muslims, general poor people, and miscellaneous others who would enjoy just playing a video game in the first place let alone consider the possibility of making a living doing it. Where are the tournaments for them?
I already can't sleep because of insomnia and now I have to deal with this!
did you even read the OP? if you focus on the only tournament there will be for the next month in your country and arent even allowed to play because of some fuck ups, it's easy to not see any perspective and lose hope.
Anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
On April 24 2013 17:35 Type|NarutO wrote: not was I insulting towards anyone here. .... It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me.
"Everyone sees themselves as the hero." - some other famous guy
I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG
Just imagine you are the MLG CEO. What are you doing to satisfy my complaints? Look where I have you saying one thing and then I quote you somewhere else saying the opposite.
I demand you delete every previous post you made. They are void and invalid. Your reasons and explanations don't mean anything to me. I want you to agree with me and do what I want. Now.
Oh sure you told me you are working to fix things but that's not good enough. I demand instant satisfaction. Give it to me now. Not next week. Not tomorrow. Not in five minutes. Give it to me. I will not be silent. Delete your posts. They are invalid.
can you please stop your stupid trolling? you have no arguments and just try to attack posters personally.
MLG didn't even acknowledge the problems with the chinese (again read the OP it's quite good) let alone propose some fixes.
On April 24 2013 17:15 fleeze wrote: so all you are basically saying is: there is a problem, but let's just ignore it and move on. i know some of these chinese pro gamers since their WC3 days and it saddens me that they have no choice but to quit pro gaming because an organisation fails at hosting a simple, fair online tournament.
Because the only two options available to everyone is silent acquiesce or DESTROY MLG AND SUNDANCE'S SOLID GOLD LAMBORGHINI.
And anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
But hey if we want to engage in melodramatic pathos then I want to make an appeal to you on behalf of the hundreds of millions of Chinese and the billions of Indians, Africans, Muslims, general poor people, and miscellaneous others who would enjoy just playing a video game in the first place let alone consider the possibility of making a living doing it. Where are the tournaments for them?
I already can't sleep because of insomnia and now I have to deal with this!
did you even read the OP? if you focus on the only tournament there will be for the next month in your country and arent even allowed to play because of some fuck ups, it's easy to not see any perspective and lose hope.
Anyone who has to quit because they didn't qualify in this tournament didn't have much of a future in professional gaming in the first place.
you didn't even get my argument.... sigh... worthless answering to you.
On April 24 2013 17:35 Type|NarutO wrote: not was I insulting towards anyone here. .... It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me.
"Everyone sees themselves as the hero." - some other famous guy
I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG
Just imagine you are the MLG CEO. What are you doing to satisfy my complaints? Look where I have you saying one thing and then I quote you somewhere else saying the opposite.
I demand you delete every previous post you made. They are void and invalid. Your reasons and explanations don't mean anything to me. I want you to agree with me and do what I want. Now.
Oh sure you told me you are working to fix things but that's not good enough. I demand instant satisfaction. Give it to me now. Not next week. Not tomorrow. Not in five minutes. Give it to me. I will not be silent. Delete your posts. They are invalid.
How exactly does 'I can understand from a company's point that shit does in fact happen' stands in contrary to my previous stated 'I cannot see how anyone in here would first of all defend MLG' , because in context, I do not and didn't 'bash' them for making mistakes in the first place, but how they did handle and keep handling the situation.
Also I never said I demand instant satisfaction, but I gave them enough benefit of the doubt in their mistakes, I don't need empty words and they could have actually written a good apology that would adress the real issues and at least show they are aware of what actually does bother us.
As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
Face it, due to so many 'problems' that has to do with China, it is really hard to promote online paid game as Starcraft 2. The games that are free or 'created' free because of lan access is THE biggest reason for it failing in China. People there have better alternatives than SC2. All othe reasons are secondary.
I have no doubt that there are masses of people who would and could play SC2 in China, nevertheless, there are 'other' issues too that pile on because of regulations and general movement of China citizens from and out of the country. For this round Blizz seem to weigh a reluctant choice to involve China in WCS. Should the situation be a bit different, im very positive China would not be overlooked. Here are hopes for future, i guess.
NA qualifier looked like a big big fail to my eyes but after reading this, it makes me so sad for chinese players... seems like it's a big hit to esport in china, very ashame...
In my opinion, MLG had to cancel the qualifier the day after it, and organised an other one right after it...
now it's too late, so they MUST give spot to the 8 best chinese players in the challenger division, so we can see them in the premier division during the next season !
NA should have gone to NASL and EU to Dreamhack. I think everyone can agree on that. It was obviously the right choice back then, and looking back its even more obvious all of us who got upset at MLG and ESL getting it was right to be upset.
Far more needs to be done in China, having lived there and seen the potential from the local players and the shear amount of Koreans studying there this fiasco is such a wasted opportunity.
Ideally, I'd just like a second qualifier to be run, with the players already qualified being seeded into the winner's finals. It's not exactly fair to them, but they're still only one bo3 away from re-qualifying, and they have two chances at that.
Since I don't think that will happen, I'd like to at least see the Chinese players seeded into the challenger division. Jim apparently made it to #1 GM on the KR ladder at one point. If he isn't even in the challenger division, then I'm done with WCS NA.
The 24 invites were split between 16 americas players and 8 invites from elsewhere. I haven't seen anyone mention how unfair that is given only 3 regions worldwide. It should have been 24 non korean and eu invites. Including chinese players. If you want to play outside your own region thats fine but no invite. Chiba has no region so whichever they choose they should be able to be invited. The fact comm wasnt invited was a disgrace. Mlg have still not been at all transparent about their invite process. They have still not said how they will make this right.
What should have happened: - Comm, as the Chinese champion, invited in the premier league as one of the 8 non-Americans. - The other top Chinese players seeded into the qualifier, like the other notable participants.
What has to happen: - Have the Comm - Apocalypse match played for the final spot in the premier league. - Have the excluded Chinese players given spots in the upcomming "code a" qualifier.
Fantastic thread that had a lot of potential for real discussion instead of pointless bashing of MLG. Instead it is filled with a handful of incredibly racist and ill-informed people having irrelevant arguments.
Anyway, it seems that a great many problems could have been solved if MLG simply had a priority system in place that gave qualifier positions to players based on merit rather than on a 'first come, first server' basis. For example players with tournament results, followed by players on well established teams, followed by grandmaster level players and so on. This would have guaranteed spots to most of the Chinese players who ended up missing out, and avoided the fiasco involving Comm playing on another player's account.
I'll be very interested to see if MLG runs their Challenger bracket qualifier in the same way, or what they change, if anything
On April 24 2013 22:19 HystericaLaughter wrote: Fantastic thread that had a lot of potential for real discussion instead of pointless bashing of MLG. Instead it is filled with a handful of incredibly racist and ill-informed people having irrelevant arguments.
Anyway, it seems that a great many problems could have been solved if MLG simply had a priority system in place that gave qualifier positions to players based on merit rather than on a 'first come, first server' basis. For example players with tournament results, followed by players on well established teams, followed by grandmaster level players and so on. This would have guaranteed spots to most of the Chinese players who ended up missing out, and avoided the fiasco involving Comm playing on another player's account.
I'll be very interested to see if MLG runs their Challenger bracket qualifier in the same way, or what they change, if anything
They did have this, they just didn't include Chinese players among the seeded players. I think RootLeiYa was also left out.
On April 24 2013 22:19 HystericaLaughter wrote: Fantastic thread that had a lot of potential for real discussion instead of pointless bashing of MLG. Instead it is filled with a handful of incredibly racist and ill-informed people having irrelevant arguments.
Anyway, it seems that a great many problems could have been solved if MLG simply had a priority system in place that gave qualifier positions to players based on merit rather than on a 'first come, first server' basis. For example players with tournament results, followed by players on well established teams, followed by grandmaster level players and so on. This would have guaranteed spots to most of the Chinese players who ended up missing out, and avoided the fiasco involving Comm playing on another player's account.
I'll be very interested to see if MLG runs their Challenger bracket qualifier in the same way, or what they change, if anything
They did have this, they just didn't include Chinese players among the seeded players. I think RootLeiYa was also left out.
They only seeded 64(?) players in a 512 player qualifier. The remaining 448 spots were awarded on a first come, first serve basis. I'm saying they should have seeded everyone.
looks more like politics then esports cause china stays behind north korea they(USA) dont allow china players play on NA qualifier this is what looks like this to me....... ps: bad eng excuse my thx
On April 24 2013 23:08 CamoPillbox wrote: looks more like politics then esports cause china stays behind north korea they(USA) dont allow china players play on NA qualifier this is what looks like this to me....... ps: bad eng excuse my thx
You are way over your head. No one other than MLG is preventing them from playing in WCS NA.
On April 24 2013 23:08 CamoPillbox wrote: looks more like politics then esports cause china stays behind north korea they(USA) dont allow china players play on NA qualifier this is what looks like this to me....... ps: bad eng excuse my thx
This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. Just stop posts like this. There is no agenda here, no politics, just very poor decision making by MLG.
Also stop referring to the North America WCS as the United States of America WCS.
On April 24 2013 23:12 digmouse wrote: No one other than MLG is preventing them from playing in WCS NA.
Really, I'm still amazed that basically Asia got overlooked for WCS in general with the exception of Korea. There are so many talented players that around that an Asian regional tournament should have been held especially after the foundation work the last WCS did in the Region and especially in China.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
so MLG may have mismanaged how people get to sign up for the tournament, they've apologized for that, however this guy still used someone else's account to compete; how is ok to do, even if he is the best player in china?
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended at least.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
Haha, yeah, I guess you can leave the feeding to me.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
He says it's invalid and void, perhaps he and you still don't understand the meaning of the words then. The word you are looking for is tarnished.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
On April 24 2013 14:54 Type|NarutO wrote: "MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void. I can understand that the qualifier cannot be re-run, but in theory it should be re-run."
Two options for you. Admit you are wrong and apologize to me for the false claim I am putting words into anyone's mouth or explain how NarutO thinks "it should be re-run" but that's not what he "wants". And before you answer I advise you that I understand the difference between "wants" and "expects to happen" so don't try semantics.
In his words he thinks the correct, ideal-but-not-possible solution to this is the qualifier "should be re-run" so I want to hear his theory on telling the people who did qualify that their work no longer matters.
btw, I don't think NarutO likes it when you just "pick the posts you like ... because no one would attack an argument they cannot beat" so if you are going to complain about my example of the Tour de France because it's not an elimination tournament, you should probably also discuss my NFL and World Cup examples. Not to put words in NarutO's mouth but he might say you aren't doing a good job of responding to my argument.
On April 24 2013 18:07 Type|NarutO wrote:]As previously stated, you attack the poster and weak posts from other users, you cannot put one scratch on the arguments I did lay out in front of you that would render the qualifier void.
No, we need to get this straight. Writing "you attack the poster" is attacking a poster.
"You can stand your point, but your 'shit happens' just shows how clueless you are" is attacking a poster.
"It seems you either are ignorant or simply want to disagree with me" is attacking a poster.
That's you. Not me.
Supposedly I "cannot put one scratch on the arguments" you made. Let's go back.
On April 24 2013 16:58 Type|NarutO wrote: Do you see a known professional that cheats being allowed in another sort of tournament anywhere? Because I don't.
And then there's... Actually, I've been warned to not be aggressive in making my points so I'm not going to do the complete doom drop. I won't continue this demolition of your ignorant claim that cheats simply aren't allowed. (But feel free to look up articles on the problems contest organizers have had in professional Scrabble and pumpkin growing. You might be surprised.)
The point is made. I win. You lose. You need to stop attacking me. You need to stop saying I do not counter your arguments.
Cheating is EVERYWHERE. It does tarnish results but it doesn't void the entire competition. MLG tried to catch the hacker and then when they didn't get the proof they needed they DQed him on a technicality of account sharing, the same one that eliminated Comm. It's a lousy situation, but shit happens.
Still, I'll give you the last word.
What I would like is to read your letter to Crank and Oz and Alicia and the rest (don't want to name everyone, spoilers!) telling them all the wins they earned this past weekend are invalid and no longer count and they wasted their time because you have declared the entire tournament void and invalid.
And let's be clear. This isn't an invitation to play fantasy MLG CEO and you can say "Okay you guys qualified and we are going to hold another tournament for everyone else." Anyone can do that just like anyone can be fantasy Blizzard CEO and say "Hey NASL is going to run this from now on" or "We are opening a China/SEA region right now" or any number of other magical wishes.
You want to make the tournament void. Let's hear you justify taking away the wins from the players who qualified and we can run a poll to see how convincing your preferred solution is.
He obviously meant known cheater, English is not his first language. Armstrong would not have been allowed to compete after he was proven to be a cheater. He would have been suspended in the least.
note: tour de france isn't even a knockout tournament. BAD example.
I know. It's not mine.
sorry, i know. just didn't want to feed the troll. naruto never wanted to redo the whole qualifier, he's just putting words into his mouth.
On April 24 2013 14:54 Type|NarutO wrote: "MLGs mistakes led to a qualifier that can be called nothing but void. I can understand that the qualifier cannot be re-run, but in theory it should be re-run."
Two options for you. Admit you are wrong and apologize to me for the false claim I am putting words into anyone's mouth or explain how NarutO thinks "it should be re-run" but that's not what he "wants". And before you answer I advise you that I understand the difference between "wants" and "expects to happen" so don't try semantics.
In his words he thinks the correct, ideal-but-not-possible solution to this is the qualifier "should be re-run" so I want to hear his theory on telling the people who did qualify that their work no longer matters.
btw, I don't think NarutO likes it when you just "pick the posts you like ... because no one would attack an argument they cannot beat" so if you are going to complain about my example of the Tour de France because it's not an elimination tournament, you should probably also discuss my NFL and World Cup examples. Not to put words in NarutO's mouth but he might say you aren't doing a good job of responding to my argument.
So seed the people who already qualified into the winner's finals. They only need to win 1 bo3 to win, and if they lose that, they have another chance in the loser's finals. It still sucks for them, but this way their previous results still mean something, and the people who got shafted by MLG get a fair chance to qualify.
Thanks for the write-up and clarification. Being Chinese, I have always wondered the status of eSports and SC2 as a whole in China. I rarely get to watch the tournaments because of time differences and my work schedule. To see someone go into so much depth talking about the country I'm from and the "hobby" I've invested so much time in, means a lot to me. I too hope that MLG/Blizzzard can work something out for the Chinese players, because there are a few premier leagues that do grab the attention of the international fanbase: StarsWar, G-League, ASL. Ultimately, I feel that if Blizzard wanted to, WCS China couold definitely still be possible next year as long as Blizzard is willing to work with the Chinese scene in terms of making a deal of some sort. Of course, we all know that Blizzard does have a few run-ins with the Chinese government, but from what you've stated thus-far I feel the political confrontation would only be minor, and there would be a lot less misunderstanding and inconvinence the second time around.
On April 25 2013 02:00 Advantageous wrote: Thanks for the write-up and clarification. Being Chinese, I have always wondered the status of eSports and SC2 as a whole in China. I rarely get to watch the tournaments because of time differences and my work schedule. To see someone go into so much depth talking about the country I'm from and the "hobby" I've invested so much time in, means a lot to me. I too hope that MLG/Blizzzard can work something out for the Chinese players, because there are a few premier leagues that do grab the attention of the international fanbase: StarsWar, G-League, ASL. Ultimately, I feel that if Blizzard wanted to, WCS China couold definitely still be possible next year as long as Blizzard is willing to work with the Chinese scene in terms of making a deal of some sort. Of course, we all know that Blizzard does have a few run-ins with the Chinese government, but from what you've stated thus-far I feel the political confrontation would only be minor, and there would be a lot less misunderstanding and inconvinence the second time around.
In stead of a WCS China I would like to see a WCS for Asia - Korea + Oceania alongside the Americas, European(/ African) and Korean ones. And than each region should deliver their top 8 for the global tournament, that would be nice. The fact that the WCS was held in China last year tells me that the Chinese market is very important to Blizzard (it obviously should) and they're probably not very amused about the situation right now. Hopefully they step in and offer some sort of solution..
Axesome interview with Comm, really depressing. If MLG doesn't give a place in Code A for Comm after all their mistake the WCS AM should be totaly ignored and MLG kick of WCS.
Q: (From netizens) Do you feel that your passion for SC2 was impacted after this event, if so, as one of the best Zergs in China, would you switch over to other games. If not, how do you think we can prevent something like this from happening again? A: After this event there was definitely a hit on my motivation for SC2, but it won’t affect me fundamentally. After all I am someone who really loves SC2. And I feel that I really love Blizzard games. So even if I had to choose to switch games, I wouldn’t choose to switch over to other (non-Blizzard) games such as League of Legends. Because I feel that (Blizzard) create games that are very fun.
And Blizzard don't give a fuck about chinese players who have passion for their game.
Interview up. For subtitles, click "CC" and then "English". Thank you very much caihead for translating this and all your hard work and contributions up until this day. Very few TL users make it to 5,000 posts.
Welks over the last days I sure learned alot about the Chinese Sc2 scene. More then I ever would have by one player in Code NA. Luckily I am not paranoid enough to see an evil conspiracy using MLG as a scapegoat to get a huge PR boost.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
Ur question about the game skill of CN pro can be answered easily. U can just count how many non-Korean players survived in the last several rounds of this tournament, and where are they from.
Thanks for the detailed and well thought out post. I definitely sympathize with the Chinese players plight. The Chinese Esports community must feel suffocated right about now. I think that MLG definitely didn't handle the situation as well as they should have. It is apparent that there were a couple of serious miscommunication issues between the Chinese players, MLG, Blizzard China, ect. However, that's where I would draw the line between things that are MLG's fault and things that are unfortunate circumstances. I don't think that this constitutes racism, and I don't think that the Chinese players were purposely excluded from playing in MLG. As has been already noted here, there is no WCS qualifier in China because the infrastructure is not there for Blizzard to create one on. There isn't a comparable MLG or ESL or GSL to step up and host the qualifier in China, and Blizzard doesn't have the time to set up a new qualifier from the ground up by itself.
I would hesitate to call the Chinese players solely victims of MLG or Blizzard, I would put the blame more in China itself. I'm not going to pretend that I know too much about the economy or policies of the Chinese government, but I think that the reason the growth of the scene has been stunted in China is because the Chinese don't have the environment to create a sustainable system. Not to say the enthusiasm isn't there, enthusiasm for Esports in China is bigger than in the US IMO. We don't see threads detailing about how there isn't a WCS qualifier for Africa or South America, it's not because blizzard or MLG is failing these players, its because those continents can't support a player base. The lack of good reliable internet with the outside world in China, and the lack of sponsorship for SC2 is the culprit here I think.
I wish all the Chinese players best of luck, and I hope the situation improves.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
The main point you're missing is that no one with a valid Chinese social security number was formally invited to MLG premium league for wcs NA qualifiers. It is interesting to note that Team iG beat team EG in the acre team story cup with an all kill from iG.Jim, but the regulars like idra got invites to premium league.
There are anywhere from 7-10 Chinese players that are GM on the Korean ladder at any time.
Woah, team leagues don't count as points towards WCS, neither does ladder ( hence why Demuslim didnt get an invite, yah ur top of ladder, but if u dont have tournament results, why should u be awarded a spot?). If there are 7-10 chinese players that are GM on korea, why not fly to the code B qualifer? Why not sign up for Europe? then as a last resort, if u can't make any of those, u can sign up for NA.
Ur question about the game skill of CN pro can be answered easily. U can just count how many non-Korean players survived in the last several rounds of this tournament, and where are they from.
And they didn't even all participate. Finally a group of foreigners who can give the Koreans a run for their money and a lot of them are excluded from playing.
PiG is the Australian WCS champion and he got nothing, despite him being in tremendous form at the moment. At the ACL event in Brisbane (australias equivalent to MLG) he got 2nd place only loosing out to Kingkong (an ex-startale player currently studying in australia).
hell a shitload of australian competitors didnt even get to compete because they where AT a national lan tournament on the day the signups where.
On April 25 2013 10:27 Bodzilla wrote: Comm wasn't the only WCS champ to not get a seed.
PiG is the Australian WCS champion and he got nothing, despite him being in tremendous form at the moment. At the ACL event in Brisbane (australias equivalent to MLG) he got 2nd place only loosing out to Kingkong (an ex-startale player currently studying in australia).
hell a shitload of australian competitors didnt even get to compete because they where AT a national lan tournament on the day the signups where.
On April 25 2013 10:27 Bodzilla wrote: Comm wasn't the only WCS champ to not get a seed.
PiG is the Australian WCS champion and he got nothing, despite him being in tremendous form at the moment. At the ACL event in Brisbane (australias equivalent to MLG) he got 2nd place only loosing out to Kingkong (an ex-startale player currently studying in australia).
hell a shitload of australian competitors didnt even get to compete because they where AT a national lan tournament on the day the signups where.
Maybe MLG thought Moonglade was the Champion》
Moonglade is more well known i supose to the outside world. More viewers that way.
Also the reason we don't see an invite to the Chinese WCS champion.
But the part about the societal attitude toward gaming seems quite different from what I've experienced. I agree that older people are still very anti-gaming, but the teenagers and university students are fucking crazy into this shit. Most universities here (similarly to Korea, I believe,) cut off electricity and certainly Internet at a certain time to prevent students from staying up all night gaming.
On April 25 2013 22:09 blacksheepwall wrote: This is great, thanks.
But the part about the societal attitude toward gaming seems quite different from what I've experienced. I agree that older people are still very anti-gaming, but the teenagers and university students are fucking crazy into this shit. Most universities here (similarly to Korea, I believe,) cut off electricity and certainly Internet at a certain time to prevent students from staying up all night gaming.
Other than that, great write-up.
What do you mean, that's exactly what I'm talking about, parents / schools / mainstream culture won't allow their children to game, because of this traditionally only people in their 20s and 30s who are capable of making their own life decisions go into professional gaming. The pressurized environment in China makes it so people get easily obsessed with hobbies or activities, it can be obsession with studying or work or gaming, the people who have the luxury to indulge in imported western life styles who party and buy expensive branded bull shit and fly everywhere in the world do that instead of gaming.
I don't think I can remember many Chinese progamers who started their official career until they reached 19 or 20 years of age. A few years of age difference is huge in progaming circles. It's a pretty big deal that we have people like Jim who is only 17 right now playing for iG.
On April 25 2013 22:09 blacksheepwall wrote: This is great, thanks.
But the part about the societal attitude toward gaming seems quite different from what I've experienced. I agree that older people are still very anti-gaming, but the teenagers and university students are fucking crazy into this shit. Most universities here (similarly to Korea, I believe,) cut off electricity and certainly Internet at a certain time to prevent students from staying up all night gaming.
Other than that, great write-up.
I don't think I can remember many Chinese progamers who started their official career until they reached 19 or 20 years of age. A few years of age difference is huge in progaming circles. It's a pretty big deal that we have people like Jim who is only 17 right now playing for iG.
This. Jim hasn't been to Korea for training or to the GSL (to the best of my knowledge). He's GM top 10 or 20 on the Korean ladder last I heard.
On April 24 2013 06:04 Nordom wrote: A part from not being among the 24 invited players, I don't understand what is anti-chinese about a first come first serve 512 player bracket?
I agree that either the bracket should be bigger or have more of them, but I assume the chinese players had the same opportunity as anyone else to register as quick as possible or am I missing something?
the chinese players were Registered and Checked in ahead of time but then they got no spots.
player spots were awarded on who registered for the tournament first rather than who checked in first. when they checked in they were on a waiting list in case some of the people who had places didn't show.
im convinced that there is a priority queue for known players or progamers from na, eu and kr but not sea and cn.
You said priority queue and the first thing that came to mind was the data structure implementation and what data to use to numerically determine priority. This is what happens when professional computer nerds sleep for 2 hours.
On April 25 2013 10:27 Bodzilla wrote: Comm wasn't the only WCS champ to not get a seed.
PiG is the Australian WCS champion and he got nothing, despite him being in tremendous form at the moment. At the ACL event in Brisbane (australias equivalent to MLG) he got 2nd place only loosing out to Kingkong (an ex-startale player currently studying in australia).
hell a shitload of australian competitors didnt even get to compete because they where AT a national lan tournament on the day the signups where.
Maybe MLG thought Moonglade was the Champion》
Moonglade is more well known i supose to the outside world. More viewers that way.
Also the reason we don't see an invite to the Chinese WCS champion.
I'll agree Moonglade is well known, however your mini argument is that they'll get more viewers having Moonglade than the Chinese players? I think that's the most incorrect statement of the hour. Obviously if you bring the Chinese players in you'll have hundreds more viewers at the very least than if you have Moonglade. Probably thousands more.
This is really unfortunate, considering what they have to put up with the CN scene has been doing really well. It is annoying to see MLG screw up again, this time at Chinas expense (and SC2 as a whole).
On April 25 2013 22:09 blacksheepwall wrote: This is great, thanks.
But the part about the societal attitude toward gaming seems quite different from what I've experienced. I agree that older people are still very anti-gaming, but the teenagers and university students are fucking crazy into this shit. Most universities here (similarly to Korea, I believe,) cut off electricity and certainly Internet at a certain time to prevent students from staying up all night gaming.
Other than that, great write-up.
I don't think I can remember many Chinese progamers who started their official career until they reached 19 or 20 years of age. A few years of age difference is huge in progaming circles. It's a pretty big deal that we have people like Jim who is only 17 right now playing for iG.
This. Jim hasn't been to Korea for training or to the GSL (to the best of my knowledge). He's GM top 10 or 20 on the Korean ladder last I heard.
Jim, a top 20 grandmaster on Korean Ladder, is a coming monster and so young ( born in 1995) .He got 4 kill when IG agains Teamliquid. A new champion for China G league 2013 ... It seems he is the Chinese "ST.LIFE". I am so sorry for the new coming monster didn't get the chance to show his talent.
On April 25 2013 22:09 blacksheepwall wrote: This is great, thanks.
But the part about the societal attitude toward gaming seems quite different from what I've experienced. I agree that older people are still very anti-gaming, but the teenagers and university students are fucking crazy into this shit. Most universities here (similarly to Korea, I believe,) cut off electricity and certainly Internet at a certain time to prevent students from staying up all night gaming.
Other than that, great write-up.
I don't think I can remember many Chinese progamers who started their official career until they reached 19 or 20 years of age. A few years of age difference is huge in progaming circles. It's a pretty big deal that we have people like Jim who is only 17 right now playing for iG.
This. Jim hasn't been to Korea for training or to the GSL (to the best of my knowledge). He's GM top 10 or 20 on the Korean ladder last I heard.
Jim, a top 20 grandmaster on Korean Ladder, is a coming monster and so young ( born in 1995) .He got 4 kill when IG agains Teamliquid. A new champion for China G league 2013 ... It seems he is the Chinese "ST.LIFE". I am so sorry for the new coming monster didn't get the chance to show his talent.
This.
MLG/Blizzard's response to these huge MLG failures is basically "well, things will get set right eventually, so let's not think of it as a big deal"
They don't seem to realize that every year is different. People dominate and base their careers depending on their performances during particular time periods.
This is THE time that Jim would be dominating the world. These are careers that would be made and set in stone that are being trashed due to MLG's mistakes.
I'm not going to throw too much at MLG about Jim in particular, but as an example, this situation is much more crucial than it's made out to be by the administrations in charge.
Imagine if Mvp hadn't been allowed to show anyone his skill during the year he basically won everything.... Imagine if Life hadn't been allowed to show anyone his skill last year when he basically won everything....
They would be thought of as much weaker players in general since they are still good players but not winning literally everything. Thus they wouldn't have the career they have now.
now Chinese player and team IG Macsed IG xigua IG tea IG xluos IG xy IG Jim We Loner We Lovecd Zoo LoveTT(also manager) Zoo loup Zoo courage Zoo how Zoo smileboy VG comm VG ash VG infi VG F91 no team Toodming yhy uhen
On April 30 2013 14:24 kingofdark wrote: now Chinese player and team IG Macsed IG xigua IG tea IG xluos IG xy IG Jim We Loner We Lovecd Zoo LoveTT(also manager) Zoo loup Zoo courage Zoo how Zoo smileboy VG comm VG ash VG infi VG F91 no team Toodming yhy uhen
It's been so long I forgot what uhen's old WC3 name used to be... Good to see Infi is still playing though.
I can understand the lack of WCS China. After all, HotS is not yet released in China (it's still being scrutinized by the government), it's not practical (and maybe illegal as well) to hold a HotS tournament there. However, this mess-up at MLG made a bad situation much much worse.
And I assure you, cries of racism are rampant among Chinese netizens.
On May 03 2013 06:51 dyDrawer wrote: I can understand the lack of WCS China. After all, HotS is not yet released in China (it's still being scrutinized by the government), it's not practical (and maybe illegal as well) to hold a HotS tournament there. However, this mess-up at MLG made a bad situation much much worse.
And I assure you, cries of racism are rampant among Chinese netizens.
I don't care if it's racism (which it probably isn't), but what it IS is negligence. I blame MLG more than Blizzard.
i grew up in china, i know how things work there...
i say 'chinese internet' is the blame for all this fuss really. politics is Everywhere and Everything in the mainlands. honest citizens are paying the price.
if it wasn't for the rivercrab policies the chinese wouldn't be 2 steps behind the rest of the world, and this situation would never have happened.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rHmerWM.jpg)
Comm is up, due to the statement from iG.Edison we will refrain from interviewing other iG players. 
2013 WCS Season 1 America Chinese players and teams came into the spot light following several allegations of incompetence and mismanagement on the part of MLG. However the center of attention quickly shifted away from understanding of the Chinese SC2 scene and what this event meant for the players and teams affected to misinformation and irrational bashing of MLG / Blizzard. This is what prompted this article as I do not believe that the international audience understands quite enough about the Chinese SC2 scene to adequately judge the situation. This article will also contain responses and interviews with the players and teams affected by the recent WCS NA Premier league Qualifiers in addendum to providing a clear time line of what has happened from the Chinese players/teams’ perspective.
MacSed, 
Loner in particular came in second place at the BlizzCon 2010 and reached the round of 16 in GSL Season 2, while ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jvHEmMN.png)
Zoo.Courage, 
Zoo.Top attending WCS North America. Many people hung on the hope of these players qualifying and setting the example not only for fans or sponsors, but for future players and national attention in the development of Chinese esports. ![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044026usjmh8va8kccnaav.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/21/044034bwnzvvrb2ajlrinv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://bbs.neotv.cn/data/attachment/forum/201304/22/062001vgvmu7hduvujuvav.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Russia%27s_population_density_by_region.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Population_density_of_China_by_first-level_administrative_regions%28English%29.png)
![[image loading]](http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cdn.com/2009-submarine-cable-map_50290b3a74a52.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://gallery.cnfrag.com/content/eSports/SITV/gleague/2012s2/_MG_2447.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0dUAH32.png)
