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On March 21 2013 01:00 maartendq wrote:
I really can't be the only one who finds every single story Blizzard ever came up with incredibly predictable and clichéd? Diablo's story is just an excuse to kill an infinite amount of monsters (let's be honest here, the story is just ridiculous), Warcraft is a collection of fantasy clichés and starcraft's story is a combination of sci-fi stuff from the 80ies. I mean, we're talking video games here, not art movies or literature. The best story ever told in a video game was Bioshock, and even that story pales in comparison with a good book.
Video games are mainly about the gameplay. I went into WoL and HOTS expecting a good RTS game with a clichéd and cheesy story, and that is exactly what I got.
You're not alone.
This really shouldn't be anything new because Blizzard has always been this way, they've always retconned things and bent the lore in a series when they've released a new game in that series. The stories told within the games have always been cheesy and the dialogue has always been filled with cheesy one liners. So that they've made changes to the lore doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I enjoyed the HotS story even though it was super cliche at times.
As much as I'd like to remember some mystical Blizzard that never had a cheesy story, never had balance issues, never did things that I questioned, I can't do it because it never happened. Blizzard has always been Blizzard and they've been going down this same road for as long as I've played Blizzard games. The only real noticeable difference with Blizzard is that now they communicate with fans more so that we have some idea of upcoming changes to the games, and they're more cautious with their changes than they used to be.
Really though if people are expecting a really well written story then they're looking at the wrong medium, because video games just don't do it. The lore stuff outside some of the games, Blizzard games included, is really good... In-game? Almost never.
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Great post, now if only Plinkett from Red Letter Media would narrate it...
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What an unbelievable well written post.
I would like to add something to the discussion, but my English is so bad that i am not capable of expressing my thoughts well enough.
- Movie industry is suffering from the same problem. Movies are made for kids even when the majority of people watching the movies aren´t Teenagers anymore. Plots are so flat and stupid that i feel betrayed after watching some of the movies.
- When i started playing Video games (i am in the same age as you) i was fascinated from the stories and from the possibilities the game mechanics gave me (without every mission beeing a tutorial mission). I wanted to explore everything in the game, it was my own journey my own will to do things. Sometimes the game wasn´t telling you anything (find a hiding spot to evolve -> here seems to be a save place!) and still i was motivated to play for hours, no frustration but fascination. So, remeber i was a kid and played matured video games and still got hooked up!
- Huge part of the success that TV-shows have is because they give characters room to grow and they are made for adults. Maybe budget is a part of it if you only have money for Actors you have to work out a damn well written story because there will not be any explosions that amaze the audience.
- I hope Blizzard and the whole gaming industry will step back from there premise that they produce a product that have to be sold, and that they see that Video games are a interactive form of Art. (still have to be sold)
- I am sad that you will never again commentate on a Video game from Blizzard because your Articles are AMAZING.
Edit: redlettermedia is awesome too :D
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On March 21 2013 01:43 BronzeKnee wrote:
I meant to write SC1 manual. My mistake.
In this case then my explanation still totally works. It was the knowledge of events as it had happened at the time. New knowledge = old data was wrong/out of date.
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While I don't like the tone of the post and I think the OP doesn't take into account the need to sometimes force dialogue to support game-play elements (make the game fun to play). Posts that put in this kind of effort and thought def deserve a spotlight.
You bring up a lot of great points that I think are relevant for Blizzard if they actually make the movie but I personally think are too picky when brought into the context of the game elements. I would rather have blizzard spend their time on the fun-to-play factor VS the story-line which I think is just a bonus for this franchise. I'd buy the game if the single player story mode didn't even exist so I have no complaints with Blizzard over single player.
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On March 21 2013 01:00 maartendq wrote:
I really can't be the only one who finds every single story Blizzard ever came up with incredibly predictable and clichéd? Diablo's story is just an excuse to kill an infinite amount of monsters (let's be honest here, the story is just ridiculous), Warcraft is a collection of fantasy clichés and starcraft's story is a combination of sci-fi stuff from the 80ies. I mean, we're talking video games here, not art movies or literature. The best story ever told in a video game was Bioshock, and even that story pales in comparison with a good book.
Video games are mainly about the gameplay. I went into WoL and HOTS expecting a good RTS game with a clichéd and cheesy story, and that is exactly what I got.
The Star1\SCBW campaign ranks in my top 5 (maybe top 3 or top 1) campaigns of any game, comparable even to Star Wars: Kotor.
I think something to take away from this, however, is that at this point Blizzard can put out essentially any game with any story, and if the game play is remotely palpable, people will play it. That's what happens when you have a tried and true formula for popular games. Why put all the time into making a truly epic story, when ultimately, it's very likely the exact same number of consumers will buy your product with a shittier one?
I wish this OP was a blog so I could 5-star it.
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I agree with so much of what was said in this OP. You pretty much took all of my thoughts and jumbled feelings of dissatisfaction with this game and put it in words that make coherent sense.
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Poland3775 Posts
On March 20 2013 22:26 mGGNoRe wrote:
I respect the amount of effort you put in to create this post OP. You make a lot of good points but at the end of the day it was a lot of fun. It is like watching Rambo and complaining about lack of depth. It doesn't make sense to complain aobut the depth when the entire starcraft series has always been cheesy and corny.
Personally I'm sick of people telling me I'm not allowed to enjoy the storyline of Wol and Hots because it isn't "mature" enough. I enjoyed it, you didn't. Can't we just leave it at that?
They could do both, you know. It's not like you can't make non-shallow storyline that's enjoyable on the surface as well. Apparently somewhere doesn't care...
On March 20 2013 22:58 Telenil wrote:
I don't know if this is because I agree with most of what you wrote, but to me that's the deepest review of the SC2 storyline I've ever read. I consider myself to be fairly good at explaining my feelings, but I would never have been able to express half of that in words. The part when you talk about the "story they want to tell", or each arc being an individual tale and not linked to the others, exactly matches my feeling.
So yeah, this was one hell of an interesting read, I hope people will put an eye on this.
It was. It was more in-depth than I thought anyone will be willing to write. I'd like Blizzard to read it and elaborate (not just comment) on it. To explain all these changes, go through their decisions making etc.
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This is an absolutely fantastic post and encompasses every single gripe I've been posting over and over again on these "HotS review" threads. Well said and well-spoken. This is what an educated mind thinks when he/she looks at this game and plays it (we see crap).
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On March 21 2013 01:00 maartendq wrote:
I really can't be the only one who finds every single story Blizzard ever came up with incredibly predictable and clichéd? Diablo's story is just an excuse to kill an infinite amount of monsters (let's be honest here, the story is just ridiculous), Warcraft is a collection of fantasy clichés and starcraft's story is a combination of sci-fi stuff from the 80ies. I mean, we're talking video games here, not art movies or literature. The best story ever told in a video game was Bioshock, and even that story pales in comparison with a good book.
Video games are mainly about the gameplay. I went into WoL and HOTS expecting a good RTS game with a clichéd and cheesy story, and that is exactly what I got.
I don't agree that Starcraft's story was predictable. Kerrigan getting abandoned and "killed" only to be revealed to be infested, and then becoming the most bad-ass being in the Universe, manipulating everyone to her own benefit, and the whole story ending with her Zerg basically taking over the galaxy.. I though that was quite cool and fresh. No "the good guys have to win", "the boy gets the girl", "let's all just be friends" and all that bullshit.
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I agree on a lot of points, but then again, I don't really think about all these kinds of things when I'm playing. I just enjoy the game and thats it.
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The OP is good, yet missing an important point:
SC2 is made to sell to a large audience, not just to SC1 fans.
Already Wol did hurt me. I expected more of Starcraft and got a cheesy cowboy setting. The mission (gameplay-wise) were good, but the tone of the story was lame and had a lot of bad moments (with the bar fight being the worst.)
I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions.
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On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
The OP is good, yet missing an important point:
SC2 is made to sell to a large audience, not just to SC1 fans.
you missed the point of the post. It´s not about satisfing hardcore sc1 fans and ther expectations, it´s about writting a good story, following your own primise, let charachters do plausible things and don´t tell us kerrigan and jim are a couple when they never where.....
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On March 21 2013 02:10 Gonzo103 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
The OP is good, yet missing an important point:
SC2 is made to sell to a large audience, not just to SC1 fans. you missed the point of the post. It´s not about satisfing hardcore sc1 fans and ther expectations, it´s about writting a good story, following your own primise, let charachters do plausible things and don´t tell us kerrigan and jim are a couple when they never where.....
All these expectation of the SC2 story are build upon personal experience with SC1. For example, you would probably not demand a believable story from C&C Red Alert. I am however discontent with many SC1 story decision as well. (The rebel leader turns out to be the new tyrant, the sacrificed Sarah survives the betrayal and is reborn as villain ... BW introduced the UED as new faction which I found extremely lame to introduce earthlings in the Koprulu sector. The mystery around Duran was a cheap way to create material for discussion.)
Instead of saying Jimmy and Sarah never were close, I rather assume untold parts of the story. Still, seeing Kerrigan fly away like a princess with magic powers broke my suspension of disbelief.
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On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
....I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions.
And why do you think a wider audience would like to see a cheesy story more than a well written story? And do you think a well written story don´t function in conjunction with good missions? SC1 showed that it works.
All these expectation of the SC2 story are build upon personal experience with SC1. For example, you would probably not demand a believable story from C&C Red Alert. I am however discontent with many SC1 story decision as well. (The rebel leader turns out to be the new tyrant, the sacrificed Sarah survives the betrayal and is reborn as villain ... BW introduced the UED as new faction which I found extremely lame to introduce earthlings in the Koprulu sector.)
Instead of saying Jimmy and Sarah never were close, I rather assume untold parts of the story. Still, seeing Kerrigan fly away like a princess with magic powers broke my suspension of disbelief.
you got me there. This wasn´t the serious part of my post :D. Well true that i expected more from WoL than from C&C but is that a bad think? This means that Blizzard was capable of writing a good story ones so why not doing it a second time.
In reality i expect better storytelling in the most video games, for me this is not a Starcraft specific thing. The problem is that statistics show that the audience is kind of matured and thus they should at least try to write stories that are somewhat of matured.
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On March 21 2013 02:22 Gonzo103 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
....I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions. And why do you think a wider audience would like to see a cheesy story more than a well written story? And do you think a well written story don´t function in conjunction with good missions? SC1 showed that it works.
I fail to see a well written story in SC1. The insta-crush of Jimmy on Kerrigan, the rebellion against the confederacy, a cliche driven "story" with missions which hardly ever had actually anything to do with the story (beside the inclusion of some hero units.)
I still consider the SC1 campaign a good game in comparison to other RTS titles.
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On March 21 2013 02:22 Gonzo103 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
....I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions. And why do you think a wider audience would like to see a cheesy story more than a well written story? And do you think a well written story don´t function in conjunction with good missions? SC1 showed that it works.
I'll just requote myself from 1 page before:
Take for example the last two missions from the invasion of Aiur: You have to collect a crystal from a sacred crystal formation and bring it to the temple where the the Xel'Naga first set foot on Aiur. Because only there the Overmind can manifest. And of course the Overmind would give up the relative safety of Char to relocate onto Aiur, the stronghold of the enemy.
I really see the well written story there.
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On March 21 2013 02:10 Gonzo103 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
The OP is good, yet missing an important point:
SC2 is made to sell to a large audience, not just to SC1 fans. you missed the point of the post. It´s not about satisfing hardcore sc1 fans and ther expectations, it´s about writting a good story, following your own primise, let charachters do plausible things and don´t tell us kerrigan and jim are a couple when they never where.....
Having never played SC1 or BW, I did think there was something going on between Kerrigan and Raynor after the WoL campaign, and I wasn't surprised in the slightest by their kissing scene (awkward as it was), much more surprised by Jim throwing a fit when she rescues him.
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On March 21 2013 02:30 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:22 Gonzo103 wrote:On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
....I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions. And why do you think a wider audience would like to see a cheesy story more than a well written story? And do you think a well written story don´t function in conjunction with good missions? SC1 showed that it works. I'll just requote myself from 1 page before: Show nested quote +
Take for example the last two missions from the invasion of Aiur: You have to collect a crystal from a sacred crystal formation and bring it to the temple where the the Xel'Naga first set foot on Aiur. Because only there the Overmind can manifest. And of course the Overmind would give up the relative safety of Char to relocate onto Aiur, the stronghold of the enemy.
I really see the well written story there.
well, you are right on that i never claimed that sc1 is a perfect well written story with a good connection to the missions. it´s pretty clear that sc1 and bw story had their flaws too. Still i think we should have higher expectations on story writing in video games. I can enjoy a video game with bad story to some degree but for me its more than playing the mechanical site of the game i want to be entertained in a good way and a good story and plausible characters are a part of it.
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On March 21 2013 02:30 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:22 Gonzo103 wrote:On March 21 2013 02:07 [F_]aths wrote:
....I am not saying "fook the hard to please customers". The core of the fans should of course be satisfied. I don't approve, but understand that Blizzard is rather going for the bigger sales with a more cheesy story as an excuse for the missions. And why do you think a wider audience would like to see a cheesy story more than a well written story? And do you think a well written story don´t function in conjunction with good missions? SC1 showed that it works. I'll just requote myself from 1 page before: Show nested quote +
Take for example the last two missions from the invasion of Aiur: You have to collect a crystal from a sacred crystal formation and bring it to the temple where the the Xel'Naga first set foot on Aiur. Because only there the Overmind can manifest. And of course the Overmind would give up the relative safety of Char to relocate onto Aiur, the stronghold of the enemy.
I really see the well written story there.
You can't just bring up a point from the story and say "That's bad writing!" without actually explaining why it's bad writing.
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