I am writing this because many people are wondering and asking questions about Rain's seed.
First, Rain's seed has no relation to KeSPA, and there is no possibility for KeSPA to pressure GomTV in any way. We know very well in which aspects of GomTV's operations, and the fairness of our Code S seeds are being questioned by our viewers.
Regarding Rain's Code S seed, I really want to make a detailed announcement as soon as possible. At the very least, I can say that GomTV did not award the seed due to outside pressure, in a ridiculous attempt to gain popularity, or because a specific company has extended sponsorship.
We have problem making an announcement about the current situation, but unfortunately we are not the only ones involved in this happening, and we can't speak in detail. We are planning to fully explain it in a future announcement, and we think everyone will understand at that time.
What we can tell you for sure is that it was not a seed selection due to outside pressure or for league popularity, nor is that we've awarded the seed and are now looking for an excuse.
If I were in the viewer's position, I would be angry, frustrated, and questioning why the reason can't be explained at present. However, through a clear explaination in teh future (it is already determined, but it cannot be said now), we will explain (not make an excuse for) Rain's seed, so we truly hope there is no confusion due to excessive speculation. Also, I hope there's no criticism towards Rain who has received the seed.
We hope everyone enjoys the final GSL held at the Mokdong studio. Also, we once again apologize for being unable to clearly explain the situation right away. (this is outside my power, and it is frustrating for me as well)
We will be giving out 2 Code S Seeds in the 2013 GSL Season 2. These seeds will be given to SK telecom T1 Rain and one other player that will announced in the near future.
Because Rain has received a seed to Code S of 2013 GSL Season 2 and no longer has to compete in his Up&Down group, he will not be playing in tonight’s matches.
Thus, Up&Down Group E will consist of 5 players (Sniper, Flying, Bbyong, Soo, and Byun).
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
Thank you. GOMTV.net
Wolf Schröder @ProxyWolf "Rain is seeded into Code S. Today's group is now five players."
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
Yeah, I don't get it. This seems entirely unfair, especially when he forfeited his Code S spot in the past.
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
Yeah, I don't get it. This seems entirely unfair, especially when he forfeited his Code S spot in the past.
Oh god, I even forgot this. That makes it even worse.
wild card group was perfect, the way groups are made is so random and giving 3rd place finishers another shot was not only exciting but also very fair contrary to arbitrary seeding
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
Yeah, I don't get it. This seems entirely unfair, especially when he forfeited his Code S spot in the past.
I agree. There are so many other players they could have seeded, even if they were to seed someone. If anything, they should seed Yonghwa. *troll*
We will be giving out 2 Code S Seeds in the 2013 GSL Season 2. These seeds will be given to SK telecom T1 Rain and one other player that will announced in the near future.
Because Rain has received a seed to Code S of 2013 GSL Season 2 and no longer has to compete in his Up&Down group, he will not be playing in tonight’s matches.
Thus, Up&Down Group E will consist of 5 players (Sniper, Flying, Bbyong, Soo, and Byun).
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
well that's stupid. he's not even a particularly good candidate for a seed for several reasons, but i guess nobody else they offered one wanted one (or rather only one other player wanted one).
should've done wildcard group or give the spot to Noblesse for his performance in yesterday's group imo.
I mean let's be serious guys, he probably would have made it through the up/downs. He lost to Flash, so he should have to play in up/downs like everyone else. This is worse than seeding popular foreigners into the GSL from Code B, this is manipulating the tournament structure itself. I really don't get it. Do a wildcard group like you did last season, that was both fair and fun. This is unfair and boring.
We will be giving out 2 Code S Seeds in the 2013 GSL Season 2. These seeds will be given to SK telecom T1 Rain and one other player that will announced in the near future.
Because Rain has received a seed to Code S of 2013 GSL Season 2 and no longer has to compete in his Up&Down group, he will not be playing in tonight’s matches.
Thus, Up&Down Group E will consist of 5 players (Sniper, Flying, Bbyong, Soo, and Byun).
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
Thank you. GOMTV.net
I'm waiting for the explanation of the century. "we put all the names of the up and down players in a hat and drew a name. Rain won"
What? Why? He's only 3 map wins away from making it on his own. If they have to hand out seeds, give them to GSTL or Proleague beasts, players who perform well in tournaments, or top foreigners.
On March 06 2013 18:05 DJSub wrote: I feel like he would have gotten top 2 spots today anyway... so yeah no harm done, more chance of players in this group of death to be in Code S
Yeah true... I feel MVP would have won GSL Season 1 2013, so not sure why they bothered playing the rest out - should've just given him his trophy
What the actual fuck? This looks sketchy as FUCK. Rain would be one of the last Korean players I would think would get a precedence for a seed into code s.
On March 06 2013 18:16 Shellshock1122 wrote: More KT players got into Code S than expected due to Crazy making it through last night so Gom adds in another SKT player to cancel it out
Flash and Rain end up in the same group, we have a revenge match of the code A RO 24.
Rain's great grandfather is actually German, so GOM is forced by law to give him a random, unearned Code S seed due to having foreigner blood running through him.
this is just.. bad. i'm not even sure rain would have made through the up and downs (to be exact i thought he wont) edit: yonghwa deserves it more. i hope he will be the 2nd seed
rofl after todays U&D match GOMTV say "Oh hey Rain, we are going to forfeit our decision to seed you to Code S, its now going to MVP... paybacks a bitch"
Not much to add, but don't like this at all, especially since he forfeited his original spot under weird circumstances when he was a super hot player and GOM (and most viewers I assume) really wanted him to stay in the tournament.
On March 06 2013 18:26 liberate71 wrote: rofl after todays U&D match GOMTV say "Oh hey Rain, we are going to forfeit our decision to seed you to Code S, its now going to MVP... paybacks a bitch"
Not sure why, but I found this hilarious, thanks :D
On March 06 2013 18:26 liberate71 wrote: rofl after todays U&D match GOMTV say "Oh hey Rain, we are going to forfeit our decision to seed you to Code S, its now going to MVP... paybacks a bitch"
Not sure why, but I found this hilarious, thanks :D
hahaha I dont think GOMTV are that sinister at all, but it still made me laugh too youre welcome <3
On March 06 2013 18:10 DARKING wrote: I'm gonna go and speculate on the reason:
GOM gives code S seed to OSL winner, then Kespa gives a seed to the current GSL champion for OSL.
This is the only reason that makes any sense at all (my personal reason was that Rain is about to talk about all of KeSPA's horrible e-sports killing practices, including making him forfeit his GSL spot, but yours is a lot better). Hopefully this means more cooperation between them in the future... SPL vs. GSTL Super Bowl? Please?
Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
It's definitely too late announcement but I don't think that's so much of an issue. In tennis tournaments Wild Cards to the main tournament are normal things and nobody is bitching about it.
As for the rationale I'm enthusiastic. Maybe some kind of auto-seeding between OSL and GSL?
Less shooting down GOM and opinion biased whining please, and more waiting for the reason GOMTV will bring out soon Please act like grownups and wait with throwing mud before you know whats going on. We are a mature community right?
I guess they settled on today being their last day at the mokdong studio which then would make it really hard to play a wildcard group... somewhere? They most likely want to open their new studio with the new season's Code S matches which makes totally sense to me.
As to why they gave Rain the spot: I think it HAD to be a protoss that receives the seed. This is like the 4th season in a row where we barely have any protoss in code S. Rain being one of the highest ranked protoss in recent times that not yet qualified for the GSL AND him being the current OSL champion are very good reasons for picking him. If someone would ask me to pick a top protoss to play in their tournament with MC, Parting, Squirte, Creator and sOs already in I would pick Rain in like 99.99% of the cases.
So I feel it was either picking him or some random foreigner - who could still get the other seed.
On March 06 2013 18:32 HooiFork wrote: Less shooting down GOM and opinion biased whining please, and more waiting for the reason GOMTV will bring out soon Please act like grownups and wait with throwing mud before you know whats going on. We are a mature community right?
That's pretty amusing coming from a guy whose name translates to pitchfork :p but yeah, agreed.
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
this is like Real Madrid have been given a free ticket to the next round of Champion's League yesterday without playing. oh wait..
This is weird, and he should have played in the group first, just to see if he had won (and then give the seed to a player like.... eh... Noblesse (for yesterday). Or wildcarding it (time is an issue I guess).
I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
Who besides Rain got a seed?
nothing announced yet but after the up and down spots only 30 Code S spots would have been decided. Rain makes 31 meaning 1 more spot has to be announced
This is just bogus to me :0 what has he done lately? winning in proleague? hell there are great players like Cjhero or Cjhydra who are doing extremely well why not give them a chance instead? I just dont get it
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
Who besides Rain got a seed?
nothing announced yet but after the up and down spots only 30 Code S spots would have been decided. Rain makes 31 meaning 1 more spot has to be announced
Ah, okay, okay. Maybe they want to resurrect Mvp or Nestea
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
The wildcard group was a thing last season only because Polt dropped out and they had some seeds to pass out. They usually don't do it.
That said: it looks completely random. Why Rain and not First?
Because "Rain is a pretty good Protoss" is pretty illegitimate. I hear MVP is a pretty good terran. I hear Yongwha is a pretty good Protoss.
I am happy for Rain, really, I like him a lot, but that really doesn't seem fare for some players. I don't know. I hope there is a meaningful reason and not just some made up shit in order to make us just forget about it .
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
The bolded text is pretty much irrelevant seeing as a guy with 33% T v Z and on a 9 game losing stream just beat a guy who was 70% Z v T in the U&D's.
Why Rain instead of Yonghwa/MVP/First/vioLet?
You can try to justify it all you want, but none of it is really reasonable. "GOM Is going to announce their reasoning soon" is what we have at the moment, and the OSL winner speculation is probably my guess.
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
The bolded text is pretty much irrelevant seeing as a guy with 33% T v Z and on a 9 game losing stream just beat a guy who was 70% Z v T in the U&D's.
Why Rain instead of Yonghwa?
You can try to justify it all you want, but none of it is really reasonable. "GOM Is going to announce their reasoning soon" is what we have at the moment, and the OSL winner speculation is probably my guess.
The best guess is the same reason Rain got seeded in the first place.
I hope they seed Idra again for winning in China over a year ago.
People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
The bolded text is pretty much irrelevant seeing as a guy with 33% T v Z and on a 9 game losing stream just beat a guy who was 70% Z v T in the U&D's.
Why Rain instead of Yonghwa?
You can try to justify it all you want, but none of it is really reasonable. "GOM Is going to announce their reasoning soon" is what we have at the moment, and the OSL winner speculation is probably my guess.
The best guess is the same reason Rain got seeded in the first place.
I hope they seed Idra again for winning in China over a year ago.
hahahaha IdrA won that recently? shit...i'm not up to date with current events
His other seed was for winning OSL? Didnt realise that - I thought him and (the other kespa player that got seeded) were just given spots for being top ranked in KeSPA.
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
The bolded text is pretty much irrelevant seeing as a guy with 33% T v Z and on a 9 game losing stream just beat a guy who was 70% Z v T in the U&D's.
Why Rain instead of Yonghwa?
You can try to justify it all you want, but none of it is really reasonable. "GOM Is going to announce their reasoning soon" is what we have at the moment, and the OSL winner speculation is probably my guess.
The best guess is the same reason Rain got seeded in the first place.
I hope they seed Idra again for winning in China over a year ago.
hahahaha IdrA won that recently? shit...i'm not up to date with current events
His other seed was for winning OSL? Didnt realise that - I thought him and (the other kespa player that got seeded) were just given spots for being top ranked in KeSPA.
On March 06 2013 18:49 Disposition1989 wrote: People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
No no. We'll complain about something.
They've always aimed to give out two seeds to players with notable recent results. Rain has neither a recent competition win or is the best proleague performing player not in Code S.
So if they're going to give out a seed, what's the reason? I think MVP is one of the best players not in Code S. See. Where's his seed? =(
On March 06 2013 18:49 Disposition1989 wrote: People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
There are more players on Rain's level that have not forfeit Code S spots two days in advance in the past. Don't get me wrong, it's great that Rain got a seed - but it's very weird to give him one when he's already in the Up&Downs. To me, seeding a (very good) player who elected not to play in Code S the season after he was seeded is a bit strange. I'd like to see someone else get a chance - because there is no shortage of good KeSPA players with similar Proleague records to seed into GSL.
On March 06 2013 18:49 Disposition1989 wrote: People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
No no. We'll complain about something.
They've always aimed to give out two seeds to players with notable recent results. Rain has neither a recent competition win or is the best proleague performing player not in Code S.
So if they're going to give out a seed, what's the reason? I think MVP is one of the best players not in Code S. See. Where's his seed? =(
They are paying respect to GSL winners from the past... you know
On March 06 2013 18:49 Disposition1989 wrote: People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
No no. We'll complain about something.
They've always aimed to give out two seeds to players with notable recent results. Rain has neither a recent competition win or is the best proleague performing player not in Code S.
So if they're going to give out a seed, what's the reason? I think MVP is one of the best players not in Code S. See. Where's his seed? =(
they are giving a seed to a player that is still in the tournament. without the seed he is still in the GSL.
yeah if they are basing this to last years results Mvp/Sniper should get one to
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
Did you watch last night's Up & Down group or any of Noblesse's OR Rain's recent games?
Someone made it straight to Code S this season of Code A. Another fell out of the GSL.
Look up the stats before you put bullshit like this out for people to read. Noblesse clearly has the better results in the past several months. You look like a blatant fanboy with no knowledge of the SC2 scene.
Also, this happened last night. Check the VOD and see why it was worth watching if you're not some cheap troll with no money too. + Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
Yes (69)
91%
No (5)
7%
If you have time (2)
3%
76 total votes
Your vote: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
....Nobody's talking about bashing the players, it's about bashing gom.
I don't get it. Will have to wait for Gom's response before i start bashing them tho, maybe i am missing something but nothing that comes out of my head seems fair.
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
....Nobody's talking about bashing the players, it's about bashing gom.
First of all this and secondly we don't even have a reason for it yet. If its some dumb stuff, you can bash... but maybe there's some good reason behind it? =.=
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
....Nobody's talking about bashing the players, it's about bashing gom.
First of all this and secondly we don't even have a reason for it yet. If its some dumb stuff, you can bash... but maybe there's some good reason behind it? =.=
If there is a good reason behind it, I imagine it would be easy to explain why he was seeded without waiting a few days and potentially causing a shitstorm, no?
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
....Nobody's talking about bashing the players, it's about bashing gom.
First of all this and secondly we don't even have a reason for it yet. If its some dumb stuff, you can bash... but maybe there's some good reason behind it? =.=
If there is a good reason behind it, I imagine it would be easy to explain why he was seeded without waiting a few days and potentially causing a shitstorm, no?
On March 06 2013 18:26 liberate71 wrote: rofl after todays U&D match GOMTV say "Oh hey Rain, we are going to forfeit our decision to seed you to Code S, its now going to MVP... paybacks a bitch"
lol, That would be quite the slap to the face.
Right now, without having heard the official reason from GOM, I feel rather unhappy with the giving out of seeds at all. At least let me keep telling myself that Code S is fair and competitive by making a Wild Card group like last season. And I thought that some part of the Code A format or something was going to get revamped for 2013? That would be nice to see.
GOM has the right to postpone our judging for now, I suppose. But I hope the reason behind this is legitimate.
On March 06 2013 18:55 Type|NarutO wrote: Why don't you guys wait for the reason before bashing?
I haven't seen many player bashing comments here, the general concensus is that it isn't "fair" to everybody else, given his up/down group was today. Everybody knows he's a good player.
....Nobody's talking about bashing the players, it's about bashing gom.
First of all this and secondly we don't even have a reason for it yet. If its some dumb stuff, you can bash... but maybe there's some good reason behind it? =.=
If there is a good reason behind it, I imagine it would be easy to explain why he was seeded without waiting a few days and potentially causing a shitstorm, no?
Yeah its the timing that is the problem, not so much the player. But speculation revolves around all things involved.
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
Did you watch last night's Up & Down group or any of Noblesse's OR Rain's recent games?
Someone made it straight to Code S this season of Code A. Another fell out of the GSL.
Look up the stats before you put bullshit like this out for people to read. Noblesse clearly has the better results in the past several months. You look like a blatant fanboy with no knowledge of the SC2 scene.
Also, this happened last night. Check the VOD and see why it was worth watching if you're not some cheap troll with no money too. + Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
Yes (69)
91%
No (5)
7%
If you have time (2)
3%
76 total votes
Your vote: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
No need to be so harsh! It's perfectly reasonable to be upset with this random seed, but let's be honest, Noblesse was NOT going to get it. Knowing GOM, they would've given it to some foreigner who has slightly decent results or a well-loved veteran in code B like Mvp or MMA. (Or maybe Bisu omg <3)
On March 06 2013 19:00 gylka wrote: Why not just give Rain Ro8 spot, or spot in the finals, whatever... I guess competitions is realy not the key thing in Code S, right?
My goodness, this is a slight bit of an over-reaction.
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
Did you watch last night's Up & Down group or any of Noblesse's OR Rain's recent games?
Someone made it straight to Code S this season of Code A. Another fell out of the GSL.
Look up the stats before you put bullshit like this out for people to read. Noblesse clearly has the better results in the past several months. You look like a blatant fanboy with no knowledge of the SC2 scene.
Also, this happened last night. Check the VOD and see why it was worth watching if you're not some cheap troll with no money too. + Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
Yes (69)
91%
No (5)
7%
If you have time (2)
3%
76 total votes
Your vote: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
No need to be so harsh! It's perfectly reasonable to be upset with this random seed, but let's be honest, Noblesse was NOT going to get it. Knowing GOM, they would've given it to some foreigner who has slightly decent results or a well-loved veteran in code B like Mvp or MMA. (Or maybe Bisu omg <3)
I think making more than one type of unit is a requirement to be in Code S
On March 06 2013 18:31 Jepsyn wrote: Not sure why all the venom on this.. its not like he wouldnt have easily made it out of his group anyway. Why does everyone on the internet need a perfect explanation just for anyone to say some schmoe like Noblesse should get it over Rain... SC2 isa not about what you did in the last 3 weeks people. A good result lasts 3 MONTHS at least for a player.. stop with this what have you done for me lately crap.
Rain got a Seed because he is undoubtedly one of the best players that wasnt in Code S. DONE
Did you watch last night's Up & Down group or any of Noblesse's OR Rain's recent games?
Someone made it straight to Code S this season of Code A. Another fell out of the GSL.
Look up the stats before you put bullshit like this out for people to read. Noblesse clearly has the better results in the past several months. You look like a blatant fanboy with no knowledge of the SC2 scene.
Also, this happened last night. Check the VOD and see why it was worth watching if you're not some cheap troll with no money too. + Show Spoiler [poll] +
Poll: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
Yes (69)
91%
No (5)
7%
If you have time (2)
3%
76 total votes
Your vote: Recommend BBoongBBoong vs Noblesse tie breaker?
No need to be so harsh! It's perfectly reasonable to be upset with this random seed, but let's be honest, Noblesse was NOT going to get it. Knowing GOM, they would've given it to some foreigner who has slightly decent results or a well-loved veteran in code B like Mvp or MMA. (Or maybe Bisu omg <3)
People like him that think they know everything because a player was "the best in the world" for a month and still think they're the best annoy me... and it's even more annoying when they insult a player that has done better than "the best in the world" for the duration of time they're talking about... He looks stupid to people that know what they're talking about but might look smart to people that don't. He doesn't deserve to look smart when he has no idea what he's talking about. I proved him wrong. I'm not being harsh, I'm being realistic.
Apart from conspiracy theory, it might be down to racial balance for Heart of the Swarm. As it stands, Protoss is way under-represented for the first season of Heart of the Swarm GSL. If Rain isn't in the Up and Down, he is likely to be one of the top choices to be seeded for this reason.
Nevertheless, it is just sneaky and unfair to other players. boo~
Undeserving. A seed should go to someone who does not have any mean of qualifying for the next season, but deserves to be in (like, the best foreigner if he looks like a contender, the best player in foreign tournament, as Polt once). And if no one meet these requirements, then no seeds...
On March 06 2013 19:20 naux wrote: People saying is unfair has to think, he never got eliminated at Code S, it is like IdrA leaving the one time he was in Code S
You're right. He got eliminated from Code A.
On March 06 2013 19:17 Ragnarork wrote: Undeserving. A seed should go to someone who does not have any mean of qualifying for the next season, but deserves to be in (like, the best foreigner if he looks like a contender, the best player in foreign tournament, as Polt once). And if no one meet these requirements, then no seeds...
Well First won a IEM in January. There's another IEM going on now they could reward as an example.
On March 06 2013 18:49 Disposition1989 wrote: People will complain about anything. Two seeds given out? Well, I should hope it goes to one of the best players already not in Code S and not some straight to code B foreigner
No no. We'll complain about something.
They've always aimed to give out two seeds to players with notable recent results. Rain has neither a recent competition win or is the best proleague performing player not in Code S.
So if they're going to give out a seed, what's the reason? I think MVP is one of the best players not in Code S. See. Where's his seed? =(
Rain has more impressive resume than IdrA when he was invited - for example. Plus I don't think these seeds are for players with noticable recent results, though these results are definitely a factor.
On March 06 2013 19:15 Maxilicious wrote: Apart from conspiracy theory, it might be down to racial balance for Heart of the Swarm. As it stands, Protoss is way under-represented for the first season of Heart of the Swarm GSL. If Rain isn't in the Up and Down, he is likely to be one of the top choices to be seeded for this reason.
Nevertheless, it is just sneaky and unfair to other players. boo~
Then it would make more sense to wait until Rain's group has been played. If Rain doesn't advance you can invite him anyway, or invite another Protoss like CJ.Hero. Best-case scenario (for more Protoss) both Rain and Flying advance, then if you want even more Protosses you can invite yet another. There were 2 slots from group E and 2 Protosses - seeding Rain in advance guarantees that a non-Protoss will advance from the group.
Well this doesnt seem fair after giving up his previous spot, should of had to play and gain it! Then again they have their reasons! Whatever those are! Hopefully he delivers!!
On March 06 2013 19:31 Goldfish wrote: Would have liked MVP to get seed. Best WoL player hands down.
Also to those who said Rain forfeit for MLG... it was most likely KeSPA's decision (remember that KeSPA and MLG had a partnership over GOM and MLG).
Actually GOM and Tastosis said multiple times it was Rain's decision to go to MLG that week.
Ahh I see. Thanks for clarifying.
Anyway to talk more about MVP - Sad to see him fall out of the GSL (especially with his health condition).
MVP is the best WoL player, and like Artosis said, he was one of the few Terran (after Zerg + Protoss domination) who showed that Terran can still win.
He better get his 5 GSL championship before he his health gets to him .
On March 06 2013 19:31 Goldfish wrote: Would have liked MVP to get seed. Best WoL player hands down.
Also to those who said Rain forfeit for MLG... it was most likely KeSPA's decision (remember that KeSPA and MLG had a partnership over GOM and MLG).
Actually GOM and Tastosis said multiple times it was Rain's decision to go to MLG that week.
Thanks for clarifying, I find very doubtful excuses like "But it was KeSPA's decision" without anything backing them...
Well before it was confirmed Rain's decision, it's not very doubtful that it could have been KeSPA decision instead.
Remember that if it wasn't for the OSL boycott (by all ESF players), KeSPA would have kept their all players and teams from being able to play the GSL (even with GOM saying they were handing their players seeds; KeSPA didn't allow their players to play in GSL... they did bust out the excuse "we're too busy card" but of course that wasn't really the case). (This isn't the first time either, the GOMTV Classic in BW ended supposedly due to KeSPA trying to keep their teams from playing too.)
Plus, the announcement of MLG + KeSPA (topic on TL) had MLG be aggressive towards GOM (saying things like KeSPA doesn't even acknowledge GSL). (I'll try to go dig up that thread.)
Edit - Well I can't find the thread (I remember it being in featured news... I can't set the search to filter on things in featured news?) but overall, it was reasonable to say it was KeSPA's decision considering the circumstances back then (before it was confirmed to be Rain's decision that is).
To all the idiots speculating and calling bs. Did you even read Gom's statement?
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
Soon™ is exactly why everyone in lashing. There is no reason. Everyone wants one, but there isn't one. What do you expect when a reason isn't provided and Rain hasn't done anything of significance since his ro4 finish?
Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way; what if the Rain seed isn't for Rain's sake, but because they want Sniper to have a good chance to get back into Code S?!
On March 06 2013 19:42 Dauntless wrote: To all the idiots speculating and calling bs. Did you even read Gom's statement?
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
Soon™ is exactly why everyone in lashing. There is no reason. Everyone wants one, but there isn't one. What do you expect when a reason isn't provided and Rain hasn't done anything of significance since his ro4 finish?
Seems to me people are mostly complaining about the reason, before even having one provided. I guess I'd expect even a grain of patience, but people like to jump on the hate bandwagon.
On March 06 2013 20:06 Xain wrote: I don't know if it has been said, but maybe they just want more protoss players in code S?
If that was the case they would have done this last season instead of having Symbol and ByuN advance from the wildcard group with 0 Protoss players in it...
On March 06 2013 19:42 Dauntless wrote: To all the idiots speculating and calling bs. Did you even read Gom's statement?
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
Soon™ is exactly why everyone in lashing. There is no reason. Everyone wants one, but there isn't one. What do you expect when a reason isn't provided and Rain hasn't done anything of significance since his ro4 finish?
I'd say it'll have to be a pretty damn good reason but it would be wise to at least hear it before making judgements. I'm interested as to what possible reason they could have for this b/c it's so unusual.
On March 06 2013 19:42 Dauntless wrote: To all the idiots speculating and calling bs. Did you even read Gom's statement?
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
Soon™ is exactly why everyone in lashing. There is no reason. Everyone wants one, but there isn't one. What do you expect when a reason isn't provided and Rain hasn't done anything of significance since his ro4 finish?
I'd say it'll have to be a pretty damn good reason but it would be wise to at least hear it before making judgements. I'm interested as to what possible reason they could have for this b/c it's so unusual.
Also why everyone is lashing. No reason provided for something that's so unusual that it seems like it's completely unreasonable
On March 06 2013 20:06 Xain wrote: I don't know if it has been said, but maybe they just want more protoss players in code S?
If that was the case they would have done this last season instead of having Symbol and ByuN advance from the wildcard group with 0 Protoss players in it...
Ya I know, but I really can't find any reason that would seem satisfactory.
It kinda makes sense considering the achievements he had from the end of last year. OSL champion, WCS Asia champion, Battle.net World Championship 3rd place and GSL 3rd/4th place in October. Whilst I don't agree with the seed, I can see where Mr. Chae is coming from giving it out.
Wow people are really close minded. Yeye it may not be fair, but life isnt either. Gom does it cause they need more P in hots code S and Rain is the top P to invite from U and D. Everyone is already crying that there is not enough P in code S, and so Gom is arbitrarily putting one in, cause apart from a few white knighting people who will watch GSL regardless, everyone will still enjoy watching a top P in code S, where he belongs. Kove on, nothing big here
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon. Enjoy the matches tonight as we say good bye to our Mok-dong Studio and the last regular season game of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty!
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
The wildcard group was a thing last season only because Polt dropped out and they had some seeds to pass out. They usually don't do it.
That said: it looks completely random. Why Rain and not First?
Because "Rain is a pretty good Protoss" is pretty illegitimate. I hear MVP is a pretty good terran. I hear Yongwha is a pretty good Protoss.
He's the OSL champion, that'll be the reason they end up giving.
It's really sketchy though, if they wanted to seed Rain they should have announced it before they released the up & down groups.
The thing that stands out the most is the timing as others have said. I wonder if the players in the up & group today knew Rain wouldn't be playing ahead of time.
Some deal with kespa one way or another, I'm sure. but if that's the case, it should have happened way before this. to pluck a guy straight from the U&D matches the day he is supposed to play is dumb any way you look at it. basically this renders the Flash vs. Rain series 100% irrelevant, which is not really how you want to retcon possibly the most hyped Code A match since MVP vs. Bomber.
On March 06 2013 18:35 ShivaN wrote: I really don't understand the reasoning for this..? Why are 2 people just being granted a seed into Code S, is someone pulling out next season? They're still having the wildcard group, or did they just decide to seed 2 random people instead? This seems really pointless and sketchy...
The wildcard group was a thing last season only because Polt dropped out and they had some seeds to pass out. They usually don't do it.
That said: it looks completely random. Why Rain and not First?
Because "Rain is a pretty good Protoss" is pretty illegitimate. I hear MVP is a pretty good terran. I hear Yongwha is a pretty good Protoss.
He's the OSL champion, that'll be the reason they end up giving.
It's really sketchy though, if they wanted to seed Rain they should have announced it before they released the up & down groups.
yeah probably just the timing is shady, shouldnt have to question rain's ability...
If they're gonna seed him, why bother putting him in an U/D group in the first place? There are 3 groups of hellbats in Stings production tab right now and it still makes more sense than the fact that they invited Rain back. Especially considering why he's in Code A now in the first place.
This is terrible PR. I know it might be forced by circumstance, but if you give people time to grow upset with something before the reason can be given, then your reason will have less impact than if you give it from the start.
EDIT: On an unrelated sidenote, I love my current Mutalisk icon! :O
On March 06 2013 21:57 Kasaraki wrote: This is terrible PR. I know it might be forced by circumstance, but if you give people time to grow upset with something before the reason can be given, then your reason will have less impact than if you give it from the start.
EDIT: On an unrelated sidenote, I love my current Mutalisk icon! :O
I'm wondering if they just should have had Rain play the U/D anyway. I think it creates more problems doing it like this than it would if Rain somehow lost then they seeded him.
Maybe. That said post U/D loss seeding would look pretty bad also =/
I guess really they should have announced this a week ago. Once again Gom make announcements for everything WAYYYYYY too late. Like Ro48 brackets a day before Ro48 basically resulted in us getting terribad games and 0 hype.
Maybe Rain won something that has not yet been broadcasted? Like a HotS Blizzard special event... Whatever, I trust in GOM for doing the right thing, we just have to be patient
Not even mad, just confused. If this Blizzard thing is the case, why bother using an unannounced ranking system to put him in there when you could of just had him play his up and down match today, it's just Bizzare.
However, through a clear explaination in teh future (it is already determined, but it cannot be said now), we will explain (not make an excuse for) Rain's seed
So odd. So there is a reason, but for some reason Mr. Chae won't tell us? This is confusing.
so sick of these seeds. Its the best competition in the world for sc2..stop tarnishing it with this free seed bullshit. And silly me for thinking it was the last of the foreigner welfare..cant wait to see who the other person is...*eye roll* And I agree why not give MVP a seed since he lost his first round and we should all feel bad and hes the most accomplished sc2 player anyway.
On March 06 2013 18:04 Dodgin wrote: I mean let's be serious guys, he probably would have made it through the up/downs. He lost to Flash, so he should have to play in up/downs like everyone else. This is worse than seeding popular foreigners into the GSL from Code B, this is manipulating the tournament structure itself. I really don't get it. Do a wildcard group like you did last season, that was both fair and fun. This is unfair and boring.
You think so? Have to admit I figured him to be one of the weakest in that group (second only to Bbyong), he did have a good run, but that run was as short as it was sweet. Of course this is all just opinion, and this whole 'seeded' situation just seems... odd.
On March 06 2013 22:02 Seeker wrote: Whoever changed title from SKT1Rain to SKT_Rain, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I LOVE YOU!
I was about to strangle NovemberstOrm
However, the perfect title would be SK Telecom T1's Rain
It is SK Telecom T1's Rain, but I guess this title is fine too.
It'll be super interesting to see what the reasoning is. Maybe trying to make sure there's a more diverse number of races for the first season? Who are these others and why can't they be announced yet? O_O
On March 06 2013 18:04 Dodgin wrote: I mean let's be serious guys, he probably would have made it through the up/downs. He lost to Flash, so he should have to play in up/downs like everyone else. This is worse than seeding popular foreigners into the GSL from Code B, this is manipulating the tournament structure itself. I really don't get it. Do a wildcard group like you did last season, that was both fair and fun. This is unfair and boring.
I really don't get it either. Some shady business going on. It's not even like Rain has a 90% winrate lately... They could have seeded CJ_herO and let Rain play in his up & downs.
when undeserving foreigner get seeds, 90% of TL doesn't complain, when a deserving korean player does 90% complains... I really dont get this community
On March 06 2013 22:04 ShakkaFL wrote: when undeserving foreigner get seeds, 90% of TL doesn't complain, when a deserving korean player does 90% complains... I really dont get this community
He had a Up & Down group today... and the group is still happening right now... The timing of this announcement (5 minutes before the group started) is about as fucked up as the three way tie for second place in the group right now...
On March 06 2013 22:04 ShakkaFL wrote: when undeserving foreigner get seeds, 90% of TL doesn't complain, when a deserving korean player does 90% complains... I really dont get this community
What 90% are you reading that isn't complaining about foreigner seeds?
Also define "deserving". You don't have a "deserving" reason that wouldn't apply to any other non-Rain player better. No-one does.
Which is why Mr Chae's answer is sooooo confusing. Idevenknow whats going on haha.
On March 06 2013 21:59 tj341 wrote: "it's due to Blizzard's 2013 plans to create unified world rankings, road to WCS, etc." strong deleted twitter predictions ^^
this is literally the only thing that makes sense
which still doesn't even make sense as hots should be a fresh slate, but whatever. papa blizzard can step in whenever
waiting for announcement of blizzard hots osl tourney and "rain defending osl champion" jazz, because not like ogn has done anything towards osl (and why would they when they can easily slap together gigantic lol teamleague/tourney/invitational for primetime)
edit: oh forgot rain won wcs asia. guess it doesn't have to be osl related, can be blizzard hots plans. "asian champion rain will be in code S"
On March 06 2013 22:07 DiMano wrote: GOM GIVE YONGHWA HIS FUCKING DESERVED CODE S SEED PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
He doesn't deserve a seed. He deserves a chance to fight for it (up/downs), but that didn't work out. He doesn't "therefore deserve to be directed seeded".
Questionable circumstances aside, if Rain takes his current form with him to Code S next season, I'll give him up to the Round of 16 until he finally drops out. And I say that as a big Rain fan.
On March 06 2013 22:04 ShakkaFL wrote: when undeserving foreigner get seeds, 90% of TL doesn't complain, when a deserving korean player does 90% complains... I really dont get this community
Grubby (who got screwed over by GOM, moving the Code A matches couple of weeks back, and he had the plane ticket booked for that) has nearly a million followers on social media sites whereas Rain got 2,5k.
I believe the correct phrase is "some old bullshit." This is more than a slap in the face to everyone who participated in code a (a huge deal on it's own), this is blatant ass kissing to KeSPA, who have continually used rain to get back at GOM for the whole "no gsl/no osl" spat. And it's not even like rain is the murder machine he was right after the switch, so you can't make a statement like "well obviously he would have won." The up & downs are made of upset potential anyway; you can ask effort and shine all about that. Way to taint the inaugural HotS GSL, GOM
Perhaps this is blizzards plan for a unified world ranking. Although, I still don't understand given the history of sc2, how rain would be top 32 :-S not in current form at least.
That post by Mr Chae is so boss. It's clear they have the public interests in mind, but are currently in a stuck position.
God I love that guy.
I look forward to the reasoning, but the initial "TA DAAAAAAAAAA" of the announcement was pretty damn drama inducing. But hey, its created a lot of talk and interest within the community, so it cant be all bad
I love how hes like "lol we dont get pressured by KeSPA and arent sponsored by SKT" hahaha. So good.
On March 06 2013 22:09 NovemberstOrm wrote: This really makes me curious as to who the 2nd seed is.
Well either: 1) Maybe it's an OSL thing? In which case maybe Last for coming 4th? 2) It's a global ranking thing from Blizzard. In which case maybe MVP? 3) The second seed is unrelated. Maybe winner of IEM WC if applicable then?
On March 06 2013 22:09 NovemberstOrm wrote: This really makes me curious as to who the 2nd seed is.
Well either: 1) Maybe it's an OSL thing? In which case maybe Last for coming 4th? 2) It's a global ranking thing from Blizzard. In which case maybe MVP? 3) The second seed is unrelated. Maybe winner of IEM WC if applicable then?
I'm out of ideas beyond that.
maybe the original plan was seed the winner of IPL/IEM
On March 06 2013 22:02 Seeker wrote: Whoever changed title from SKT1Rain to SKT_Rain, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I LOVE YOU!
I was about to strangle NovemberstOrm
However, the perfect title would be SK Telecom T1's Rain
It is SK Telecom T1's Rain, but I guess this title is fine too.
It'll be super interesting to see what the reasoning is. Maybe trying to make sure there's a more diverse number of races for the first season? Who are these others and why can't they be announced yet? O_O
yeah maybe they have race quotas, after realising code s finals is going to be a washout
I don't really get it, what possible reason could they have for handing out a seed to Rain, who has achieved nothing in the last four months or so, and not to Sniper? I hope it's about race quotas honestly.
what is your reason for level of hate for this? Rain, current reigning OSL champion, high level WCS contender, GSL semi-finalist doesn't deserve this seed? what does he have to do to actually "deserve" it then?
Rain deserves this seed more than some of the players that made it into code S for the upcoming season. He's been on tilt in the last couple of weeks but name one player that doesn't go through a slump once in a while...
On March 06 2013 22:09 NovemberstOrm wrote: This really makes me curious as to who the 2nd seed is.
Well either: 1) Maybe it's an OSL thing? In which case maybe Last for coming 4th? 2) It's a global ranking thing from Blizzard. In which case maybe MVP? 3) The second seed is unrelated. Maybe winner of IEM WC if applicable then?
I'm out of ideas beyond that.
1. Can't be OSL. They could simply tell us. 2. Maybe... but I don't know why they wouldn't tell.
On March 06 2013 22:14 liberate71 wrote: That post by Mr Chae is so boss. It's clear they have the public interests in mind, but are currently in a stuck position.
God I love that guy.
I look forward to the reasoning, but the initial "TA DAAAAAAAAAA" of the announcement was pretty damn drama inducing. But hey, its created a lot of talk and interest within the community, so it cant be all bad
I love how hes like "lol we dont get pressured by KeSPA and arent sponsored by SKT" hahaha. So good.
When I read that post by Mr Chae, all I was thinking was that he mentioned every single reason that was brought up in this thread. He definitely is in touch with the community, pretty cool to see.
On March 06 2013 22:09 NovemberstOrm wrote: This really makes me curious as to who the 2nd seed is.
Well either: 1) Maybe it's an OSL thing? In which case maybe Last for coming 4th? 2) It's a global ranking thing from Blizzard. In which case maybe MVP? 3) The second seed is unrelated. Maybe winner of IEM WC if applicable then?
I'm out of ideas beyond that.
maybe the original plan was seed the winner of IPL/IEM
Looks plausible. IEM -> Get a seed IPL -> Cancelled -> Lets get Rain.
On March 06 2013 22:14 liberate71 wrote: That post by Mr Chae is so boss. It's clear they have the public interests in mind, but are currently in a stuck position.
God I love that guy.
I look forward to the reasoning, but the initial "TA DAAAAAAAAAA" of the announcement was pretty damn drama inducing. But hey, its created a lot of talk and interest within the community, so it cant be all bad
I love how hes like "lol we dont get pressured by KeSPA and arent sponsored by SKT" hahaha. So good.
When I read that post by Mr Chae, all I was thinking was that he mentioned every single reason that was brought up in this thread. He definitely is in touch with the community, pretty cool to see.
He didnt touch on Startale.Rain or LGIM.Rain though! I believe! ahahahaha
But yeah same here, there was some specific things that he nailed.
what is your reason for level of hate for this? Rain, current reigning OSL champion, high level WCS contender, GSL semi-finalist doesn't deserve this seed? what does he have to do to actually "deserve" it then?
Rain deserves this seed more than some of the players that made it into code S for the upcoming season. He's been on tilt in the last couple of weeks but name one player that doesn't go through a slump once in a while...
First time he played the GSL was through a seed. It's kind of strange to give a 2nd seed to the same player.
Its unfair, but not more than any of the foreigners getting code S seeds. Im vehemently opposed to seeding in the first place, but its nice that koreans get some and not foreigners. When , he declined last time that may have been all KeSPA so they might have figured he would get another one.
No more seeding plz, but at least it was a worthy player this time.
On March 06 2013 22:04 ShakkaFL wrote: when undeserving foreigner get seeds, 90% of TL doesn't complain, when a deserving korean player does 90% complains... I really dont get this community
Grubby (who got screwed over by GOM, moving the Code A matches couple of weeks back, and he had the plane ticket booked for that) has nearly a million followers on social media sites whereas Rain got 2,5k.
HuK got seeded (what for, by the way, he wasn't even on a Code A level), now Rain gets seeded (who is on Code S/A level, yepp), though he already got the chance of qualifying... I don't get that seed stuff anymore. But with latest zerg dominance, GSL gets uninteresting anyways (well, I'm zerg, too), so I'm really rooting for next season's HOTS start!!
There are so many reasons why this is justified, I'd like to think it's a combination of a few: -Based on ability alone, past results OSL championship alone in particular can already justify that. -A Code S spot was taken away from him, probably unfairly, (MLG participation issue) this is the most likely official reason given that they seem to want to be given time to write a proper reasoning and avoid offending any parties.
To add to that, he's got teamkill in his group and that's the only one in this season's U&D if I'm not mistaken, rather unlucky.
I'm also fairly sure that he'd be a popular choice for any seed to be handed out especially given the hype that he had before after making the semis and winning the OSL. Many fans wouldn't agree with this being a good or legitimate reason but I feel it is completely fine for a commercial organisation to want the most popular and most hyped players to be participating in it. Let's not forget the GSL have lost Mvp this season, who has to qualify from Code B from next season, it is a big blow and let's not deny there are fans who follow their favourite player in particular and some players raise spectator numbers.
The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
they should have at least let Rain play out the up/down so that maybe Rain and Flying can advanace to prevent the chance of yet another zerg (soo/sniper) from being in code S
it wasn't really "deserved" in any way this time, but you can argue that some players deserved it before.
like seeds from top MLG placement (MMA, DRG, MC)
or seeds from winning premier tournaments, being really succesful at a time.
If i'm correct, 8 seeds come from code S, 12 seeds come from code A round of 12, and other 12 comes from up/down groups, with 2 people advancing from each group it means there must be 6 groups,28 players come from code A, which can't be divided by 6, so there must be 2 seeds to make it a multiple of 6 (or 5). the other way is to make groups have different number of players which makes it slightly unfair (they have less mathematical chance to advance if the group is bigger)
so the seeds are justified in this sense, to fill in the gaps of the format
also a different way to fill in the gaps of the format is to give direct code s seeds and have 1 less groups consiting of a certain number of players and possible seeds to make it a multiple of the certain number
so bottom line, if they have the current format, seeds are somewhat required to make it absolutely even and fair for everybody, but one could argue that the format is fundamentally flawed.
anyways the matches they televise are basically a product of the gomtv studio, they make efforts to satisfy the crowd, and I guess we have to be happy whichever format they use because even if they use the stupidest one, we still get the best quality of sc2 from gomtv and they have great services if you buy their ticket.
On March 06 2013 22:51 boxerfred wrote: Lol, seeds get more and more ridiculous.
HuK got seeded (what for, by the way, he wasn't even on a Code A level), now Rain gets seeded (who is on Code S/A level, yepp), though he already got the chance of qualifying... I don't get that seed stuff anymore. But with latest zerg dominance, GSL gets uninteresting anyways (well, I'm zerg, too), so I'm really rooting for next season's HOTS start!!
Huk was seeded to U/D and advance to code S from that. That's totally different from being seeded directly to Code S.
what is your reason for level of hate for this? Rain, current reigning OSL champion, high level WCS contender, GSL semi-finalist doesn't deserve this seed? what does he have to do to actually "deserve" it then?
Rain deserves this seed more than some of the players that made it into code S for the upcoming season. He's been on tilt in the last couple of weeks but name one player that doesn't go through a slump once in a while...
To be honest he hasn't done anything of recent especially after he chose to drop out of Code S once before. I'm not trying to start an argument but I'm just stating the facts. Neither am I saying he does or doesn't deserve the seed.
On March 06 2013 23:11 tj341 wrote: I don't think this is Gom's choice. Why would gom voluntarily give Rain another chance when last time he ditched their tournament for mlg?
It probably involves another partner of some sort.
I don't see the this as a big problem, as GOM wouldn't seed people for no reason. Soon enough we shall see the announcement with the reasoning behind this decision.
this is the REASON: stephano drops out of code S and GOMTV needs someone to replace him. He cannot state it right now or he will spoil the whole thing about stephano.
It's obvious that Nestea decided to invade Rain's body in a Lazarus Pit that he has been constructing for the last year (hence his exceptionally poor performance), and so they gave Nestea the seed in celebration of his near-certain return to form.
So very unfair, just make it play the Up&Downs or/and the wildcard group :/ Instant seed eventhough he could have more chances? Very fishy and unfair for other players showing promise.
On March 06 2013 23:19 Gruntt wrote: Someone prob dropped out and they figured Rain was a good seed, but the person that is dropping out just doesn't want it announced yet.
I'm having this impression, too Probably stephano, but he doesn't want to announce it yet
On March 06 2013 23:06 Squiggles wrote: The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
They had a much simpler system earlier, but you got a stagnant Code S. Not good.
The way they have it now gives plenty of opportunities to both Code S and Code A players to move up and down, but at the same time makes it likely that bad Code S players drops down, or good Code A players move up.
If you have a bad streak or are in a slump, you can drop down, but for this they have the seeding from other tournaments, which I think works pretty well. A bit unusual that they haven't told us why Rain got the seed.
On March 06 2013 23:06 Squiggles wrote: The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
They had a much simpler system earlier, but you got a stagnant Code S. Not good.
The way they have it now gives plenty of opportunities to both Code S and Code A players to move up and down, but at the same time makes it likely that bad Code S players drops down, or good Code A players move up.
If you have a bad streak or are in a slump, you can drop down, but for this they have the seeding from other tournaments, which I think works pretty well. A bit unusual that they haven't told us why Rain got the seed.
During those days, you had the likes of Virus, Ensnare, Tester and others sticking in Code S forever, even though you knew they were pretty bad, but the system just didn't dropped them out. Was is the opposite of today, top24 make next code S and only 8 spots for new faces?
On March 06 2013 23:19 Gruntt wrote: Someone prob dropped out and they figured Rain was a good seed, but the person that is dropping out just doesn't want it announced yet.
I'm having this impression, too Probably stephano, but he doesn't want to announce it yet
This doesn't make any sense. Without anyone else dropping out, there are 2 empty slots in Code S. The message by GOM says that Rain and one other person will receive seeds. If Stephano (or anyone else) dropped out they would need to give out 3 seeds.
I agree for a wild card group, i'm very sad for all the players who lose in U&D groups. That's unfair! When they give the 1 or 2 spots for foreigners it's like "you will succeed?", it goes better, but for Rain...
On March 06 2013 23:21 illidanx wrote: this is the REASON: stephano drops out of code S and GOMTV needs someone to replace him. He cannot state it right now or he will spoil the whole thing about stephano.
On March 06 2013 23:19 Gruntt wrote: Someone prob dropped out and they figured Rain was a good seed, but the person that is dropping out just doesn't want it announced yet.
I'm having this impression, too Probably stephano, but he doesn't want to announce it yet
This doesn't make any sense. Without anyone else dropping out, there are 2 empty slots in Code S. The message by GOM says that Rain and one other person will receive seeds. If Stephano (or anyone else) dropped out they would need to give out 3 seeds.
Also they could simply say that Stephano doesn't play Code S. Why would they make such a secret and piss off their viewers only to do a minor favor to a player that has no relation to them? Makes no sense.
Wonder what the explanation could be... The best I can come up with is that it has something to do with Rain's forfeit in season 5 2012. I always felt we didn't get the whole picture there.
On March 06 2013 23:06 Squiggles wrote: The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
They had a much simpler system earlier, but you got a stagnant Code S. Not good.
The way they have it now gives plenty of opportunities to both Code S and Code A players to move up and down, but at the same time makes it likely that bad Code S players drops down, or good Code A players move up.
If you have a bad streak or are in a slump, you can drop down, but for this they have the seeding from other tournaments, which I think works pretty well. A bit unusual that they haven't told us why Rain got the seed.
You have a good point, but times are different now. We have IEM, MLG, Proleague, OSL, and other tournaments you can use for an official SC2 ranking. Seed them according to their world ranking, ensuring that you have the best players playing in the best league.
I don't actually get what all the fuss is about. So Rain got a seed, so what? GomTV has the right to offer 2 seeds for the GSL Code S in it's current format and they actually don't have to explain why they're giving someone a seed. In tennis tournaments and some other sport scenes, seeds or wildcards are a valid way to gain participation to a tournament. And I prefer the seeds to go to former semifinalists more than to a random good foreigner (but that's just personal preference).
That said however, it feels a bit not-GomTV-like to do it this way, so I think Mr. Chae will have a good explanation for this.
On March 06 2013 23:06 Squiggles wrote: The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
They had a much simpler system earlier, but you got a stagnant Code S. Not good.
The way they have it now gives plenty of opportunities to both Code S and Code A players to move up and down, but at the same time makes it likely that bad Code S players drops down, or good Code A players move up.
If you have a bad streak or are in a slump, you can drop down, but for this they have the seeding from other tournaments, which I think works pretty well. A bit unusual that they haven't told us why Rain got the seed.
You have a good point, but times are different now. We have IEM, MLG, Proleague, OSL, and other tournaments you can use for an official SC2 ranking. Seed them according to their world ranking, ensuring that you have the best players playing in the best league.
Except there is no world ranking. For that to work every single tournament would have to work together to create such a system.
On March 06 2013 23:06 Squiggles wrote: The whole Code A/Code S system is messed up anyway. They should have a better method of ranking all players and seed the top 16/24 in the main tournament every time, and everyone else qualifies + wildcards. This is how they do it for tennis tournaments.
This allows for less volatility, a more stable set of players (grow popularity), and have rivalries. It sucks when the top players pick themselves into the same group and get knocked out in RO32. You'll net get the #1 and #2 favorites meeting in the final.
They had a much simpler system earlier, but you got a stagnant Code S. Not good.
The way they have it now gives plenty of opportunities to both Code S and Code A players to move up and down, but at the same time makes it likely that bad Code S players drops down, or good Code A players move up.
If you have a bad streak or are in a slump, you can drop down, but for this they have the seeding from other tournaments, which I think works pretty well. A bit unusual that they haven't told us why Rain got the seed.
You have a good point, but times are different now. We have IEM, MLG, Proleague, OSL, and other tournaments you can use for an official SC2 ranking. Seed them according to their world ranking, ensuring that you have the best players playing in the best league.
I always figured the main reason they've never moved to that system is that some teams/players just don't travel nearly as much as others. Be it cost or time or whatever, it'd be painful for a lot of careers to have GSL entry revolve around other tournaments. And it'd obviously be very tough to break in as an up and comer.
Makes sense to me. Article seems to imply its not a Kespa playing coming in, its Rain. And would make sense to me, that Rain would be changing teams then, and therefore best "non KR teamed player"
- It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
This makes total sense. Rain got seeded because Group E was too imba, and they needed to give more players a chance to advance from the group of death.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
Rain has terminal cancer. Attending this final GSL is his dying wish.
EDIT: Yeah okay, maybe that was a questionable joke.. However, as someone who's lost family members to cancer, I don't think having it being a taboo or something untouchable benefits anyone. Had I thought about it for a couple seconds extra, I might not have made this joke, especially remembering certain players, but I believe in laughing at the horrors of life, not hiding from them.
Haha I am curious about the reason with those announcements of the announcement though.
I would find it hilarious though if he forfeits again. But I really hope he stepped up his gameplay and stopped being a one trick pony though.
Maybe Blizzard has chosen an ESF Terran, a Kespa Toss and a Foreign Zerg. To train the HotS release version that was set in stone and the beta just a setup to make people think they had influence on the game. And those 3 players have fallen abit in strength due to that, but will be total badasses in HotS and will debut their skill in Code S. And play exactly how Blizzard had envisioned HotS to be played and force the meta on their path.
I don't know if anyone commented this in last 15 pages, but maybe this is connected to some deal with Kespa. Maybe GSL and OSL will start seeding players into each other tournament. Since they cannot say reason right away, it sounds to me like something like that.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
Rain has terminal cancer. Attending this final GSL is his dying wish.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
Rain has terminal cancer. Attending this final GSL is his dying wish.
ohhh you're new
Yeah, not the best joke considering... you might wanna edit that out Kasaraki.
On March 07 2013 00:34 RawBean wrote: Am I the only one that thinks there is a possibility that there may have been foul play vs Flash that they didn't bother with a rematch?
What do you mean with foul play? Didn't see anything strange in these games.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
Rain has terminal cancer. Attending this final GSL is his dying wish.
Anyway, really bad that they seeded him right out of his U&D group. He got a seed, went to semis and then threw that back in GOM's face by skipping the next Code S to go to MLG (because of not informing them enough in advance to rearrange his games). Then karma struck and he dropped out of Code A as well. And since then he's done relatively little.
And now they're giving another seed? What? Going to be interesting to see their justification.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
Rain has terminal cancer. Attending this final GSL is his dying wish.
Anyway, really bad that they seeded him right out of his U&D group. He got a seed, went to semis and then threw that back in GOM's face by skipping the next Code S to go to MLG (because of not informing them enough in advance to rearrange his games). Then karma struck and he dropped out of Code A as well. And since then he's done relatively little.
And now they're giving another seed? What? Going to be interesting to see their justification.
It wasn't Rain's decision to give up GSL for MLG. It was KesPa.
On March 07 2013 00:34 RawBean wrote: Am I the only one that thinks there is a possibility that there may have been foul play vs Flash that they didn't bother with a rematch?
could you elaborate on what you mean by that? the way i interpret this doesn't make much sense to me.
i hope they have a good reason for this and the other seed is a good one.
Its their league they can seed whoever the fuk they want to and i dont see why anyone should make a big fuss out of it. Regardless it seems there are some behind the scene works in the progress that are not done yet to rationalize the seed.
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: - It can't be the OSL/GSL champion cross seeds because that doesn't fit with the new statement - it can't be because of Stephano's forfeit because that would mean two additional seeds, not one like he stated and also they would not have to keep it secret - it can't be Rain's former GSL run because they wouldn't have to keep it such a secret
any other ideas???
(snip) :p
ohhh you're new
Yeah, not the best joke considering... you might wanna edit that out Kasaraki.
A bit stupid considering there have been two days in a row of tiebreakers. I would have liked to see those guys somehow get a chance. (Granted if Rain played today probably wouldn't have had tiebreakers but still...)
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
One of the few seeds I can't disagree with. Pretty sure Rain was forced out by Kespa and is easily one of the best Kespa players who could have made it in anyway unlike some foreigners...
This better be a really good reason. Rain forfeiting his seed before makes me think he should have to earn it for once, not just take it for granted. Yes he is a great player but that doesnt mean he needs special privileges to get into Code S when so many others play their hearts out and dont make it.
On March 07 2013 01:07 Garoodah wrote: This better be a really good reason. Rain forfeiting his seed before makes me think he should have to earn it for once, not just take it for granted. Yes he is a great player but that doesnt mean he needs special privileges to get into Code S when so many others play their hearts out and dont make it.
So much this. Pretty much why I'm against seeding in general.
I'm happy about the seed. It's affirmative action for protoss when the next season is going to be HotS. More chances to see the new PvX matchups. Might as well be Rain since he rocketed to popularity with his crazy autumn 2012 run and still has the skill to be relevant (highest ELO and proleague winrate of protosses who weren't already in Code S).
On March 07 2013 00:00 Fenrax wrote: We have problem making an announcement about the current situation, but unfortunately we are not the only ones involved in this happening, and we can't speak in detail?
I wonder who are the other group involved if its not kespa... EGRainRC?
rather have them give it to rain then some shitty foreign player
saying rain dose not deserve code s is stupid he would of made it to code s regardless and the esf vs kespa matches obviously creates more viewers for gom no matter what they say
Glad Rain got the seed, but the letter from Mr. Chae doesn't seem to be believable.
What other reason can there be? Not for league popularity(inside motive), not for pressure(outside influence), can't see any reason which would suit that. Since he said they can't say some things, so this is clearly an outside influence, I doubt there is no pressure on them, or other sponsorship reasons.
I wish all e-sports organizations could be this professional. I mean, it's a hell of a lot more clear than IPL's whole thing. Beside's it's their tournament, in my opinion they can do what they want.
On March 07 2013 02:03 TheDougler wrote: I wish all e-sports organizations could be this professional. I mean, it's a hell of a lot more clear than IPL's whole thing. Beside's it's their tournament, in my opinion they can do what they want.
What? Chae/GOM telling us they'll tell us why later is so professional? This is hardly being transparent.
On March 07 2013 01:57 TriZ wrote: Could anyone tell me..
Will there be 34 players in the Ro32 of GSL 2013 Season 2 Code S? Or are there players forfeiting that we(or me) don't know about?
I believe there will be 32, but I don't know why this would mean anybody has to forfeit. After Rain's seed and all the Up and Downs there are now 31 players for Code S. Then there is one seed remaining. Where did you get 34 from? (I don't mean that to be insulting, but I don't know where the number came from so I can't help explain why it's wrong).
I went in the thread with "Awesome! Makes sense!" Then I read all these "explanations" and I get confused and slightly irritated. It would have been enough for me to just say "Rain seeded. DEAL WITH IT!", instead of a bunch of "no, we are totally not apologizing and giving a hundred apologies for what is not even clear why should it be any problem in the first place".
Not to mention every league is totally free to seed whoever they want by whatever (nonexistent) criteria they wish. They organize it, it's their event, they own it, they can invite whoever they want. They can seed Dustin Browder's grandmother if they so desire. They don't need to behave like some freaking apologetic servants to us.
On March 07 2013 01:57 TriZ wrote: Could anyone tell me..
Will there be 34 players in the Ro32 of GSL 2013 Season 2 Code S? Or are there players forfeiting that we(or me) don't know about?
I believe there will be 32, but I don't know why this would mean anybody has to forfeit. After Rain's seed and all the Up and Downs there are now 31 players for Code S. Then there is one seed remaining. Where did you get 34 from? (I don't mean that to be insulting, but I don't know where the number came from so I can't help explain why it's wrong).
he probably thinks the wildcard group will still be played
Interesting. It was kind of unexpected for me. Maybe GSL and OSL might be looking to collaborate in the future, with OSL champions getting Code S seeds and GSL champions getting OSL seeds?
On March 07 2013 01:57 TriZ wrote: Could anyone tell me..
Will there be 34 players in the Ro32 of GSL 2013 Season 2 Code S? Or are there players forfeiting that we(or me) don't know about?
I believe there will be 32, but I don't know why this would mean anybody has to forfeit. After Rain's seed and all the Up and Downs there are now 31 players for Code S. Then there is one seed remaining. Where did you get 34 from? (I don't mean that to be insulting, but I don't know where the number came from so I can't help explain why it's wrong).
he probably thinks the wildcard group will still be played
That would make sense. If that's the case, an explanation: Last season's wild card group was a one-off though. It was instead of giving out seeds. Stephano did get a seed but that seed was to replace Polt who forfeited to go university in the US. They did not intend to give out any seeds last season.
They should have had a proper release before they went ahead and said they were seeding him. It looks very unprofessional to just say "we're doing this now and we'll let you know why . . . later."
On March 07 2013 02:40 Jedclark wrote: Calling it: the reason why he is getting this seed is because he is joining an ESF team. Don't know why, just got that vibe.
Also, I don't see what all the commotion is about? :S
That doesn't make sense, why would he get a seed just for joining another team?
I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
On March 07 2013 02:40 Jedclark wrote: Calling it: the reason why he is getting this seed is because he is joining an ESF team. Don't know why, just got that vibe.
Also, I don't see what all the commotion is about? :S
dont see why anyone would leave a kespa team now to join a esf team
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
Not to mention every league is totally free to seed whoever they want by whatever (nonexistent) criteria they wish. They organize it, it's their event, they own it, they can invite whoever they want. They can seed Dustin Browder's grandmother if they so desire. They don't need to behave like some freaking apologetic servants to us.
you can behave whatever way you please but that would be a terrible public relations mistake seeding DBs grandmother, or anybody else without a good argument. clients buy the tickets and expect top quality and fair competition, not chaos and corruption or corporative favors. Im not saying clients are entitled to it, but they expect it. its like invisible codex, they dont have to, but its the rigth thing to respect your clientele and give explanation for things like this. Otherwise you risk to loose credibility. you dont need to behave like an ass just because you can, thats what i mean
So, what they will do is never actually release the statement as to why, and hopefully it'll all just blow over. I'm genuinely interested in what they can conjure up for this.
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
Not enough time for Gom when the final and their move to new studio is so soon. The only time that may work would be right after the last group, which is unfair for the last group player since the player can't prepare for other players and have to play again in just few hours after his u&d.
I feel like seed has something to do with the GomTV HOTS special that's suppose to play in 4 days.
On March 06 2013 18:04 liberate71 wrote: Not even the most dedicated Rain fanboys will think this is "right".
I like Rain, and was hoping he'd make it through todays groups... but *matrix scene* "...Not like this..."
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
" I can say that GomTV did not award the seed due to outside pressure, in a ridiculous attempt to gain popularity, or because a specific company has extended sponsorship."
I wouldn't have assumed that until he mentioned it so specifically.
I like the system where they give the winners of select major tournaments auto seeds into Code S. For example giving the winner of IEM or the up coming MLG a Code S seed would make sense and was a fair system when they used to do that.
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
Not enough time for Gom when the final and their move to new studio is so soon. The only time that may work would be right after the last group, which is unfair for the last group player since the player can't prepare for other players and have to play again in just few hours after his u&d.
I feel like seed has something to do with the GomTV HOTS special that's suppose to play in 4 days.
They said today they might still do it and it just wouldn't be streamed i believe. I thought I heard them say that at the beginning but I might be wrong
On March 06 2013 18:04 liberate71 wrote: Not even the most dedicated Rain fanboys will think this is "right".
I like Rain, and was hoping he'd make it through todays groups... but *matrix scene* "...Not like this..."
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
On March 06 2013 18:04 liberate71 wrote: Not even the most dedicated Rain fanboys will think this is "right".
I like Rain, and was hoping he'd make it through todays groups... but *matrix scene* "...Not like this..."
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
Not to mention every league is totally free to seed whoever they want by whatever (nonexistent) criteria they wish. They organize it, it's their event, they own it, they can invite whoever they want. They can seed Dustin Browder's grandmother if they so desire. They don't need to behave like some freaking apologetic servants to us.
you can behave whatever way you please but that would be a terrible public relations mistake seeding DBs grandmother, or anybody else without a good argument. clients buy the tickets and expect top quality and fair competition, not chaos and corruption or corporative favors. Im not saying clients are entitled to it, but they expect it. its like invisible codex, they dont have to, but its the rigth thing to respect your clientele and give explanation for things like this. Otherwise you risk to loose credibility. you dont need to behave like an ass just because you can, thats what i mean
I just mean they are free to invite people without any explanations. It's a totally different story if viewers would like watching that and would pay for another subscription. If not - then they shouldn't do it, but if they decide to do it, they don't need to apologize for anything. If I don't want to watch Rain in Code S, their apologizing won't help me.
I'd personally love to see Rain in Code S, he's one of the top players in the world right now, so that's not an unreasonable decision at all, imho.
On March 06 2013 18:04 liberate71 wrote: Not even the most dedicated Rain fanboys will think this is "right".
I like Rain, and was hoping he'd make it through todays groups... but *matrix scene* "...Not like this..."
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
His salary was set during BW-era where he was godlike. I assume he won't even get a new contract. ~_~
He earns at least double that amount during BW-era, this 100k salary is already reduced significantly to give some to Rain and parting. That's why Bisu and team had some unpleasant last summer. And I still don't believe it is that low.
GOM and Mr. Chae have established a good history of credibility. They say we will know the details in time. I'm going to hold off judgement until that time.
There are lots of legitimate scenarios that I can think of where a player gets a seed but explanation cannot come till later. What if a player cheated against Rain to deny him getting into code S? Not saying that is the case at all but just showing that condemning GOM / Chae at this point is stupid without knowing the whole story. I'm content to wait. It doesn't ruin my day.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I thought 1 seed would be given away and the extra one would be given away through another group like some people have mentioned but I guess they don't want to have the players play another WOL group (assuming it would be WOL since the U/D has been so far) with HOTS so close to release and everyone wanted to switch.
Rain is an amazing player so I really have no problem with the seed. Also interested to hear the reasoning when they can finally say.
Holy what's with all this cloak and dagger regarding the seeding explanation, that gom just can't announce the reason for it today? They've given seeds to far lesser players in the past, so there is no need for this cloak and dagger bs. Just come out and say the reason and be done with it.
On March 07 2013 03:40 Canucklehead wrote: Holy what's with all this cloak and dagger regarding the seeding explanation, that gom just can't announce the reason for it today? They've given seeds to far lesser players in the past, so there is no need for this cloak and dagger bs. Just come out and say the reason and be done with it.
I don't get it and their reasoning has to be good. They should have granted the seed earlier and made the announcement, players prepared matches for him.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
On March 06 2013 18:04 liberate71 wrote: Not even the most dedicated Rain fanboys will think this is "right".
I like Rain, and was hoping he'd make it through todays groups... but *matrix scene* "...Not like this..."
On March 06 2013 18:03 zenkicker wrote: Who might be the other player? I'm guessing whoever wins the IEM.
^ yeah I think youre right there.
I'll be interested to see what GOMTV's rational for this will be
"oh he was in Code S before but due to commitments, had to leave, so he should get that chance back" better not be the reason or I'll puke.
Imagine if it is due to a forthcoming monster announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen... please welcome... LGIM.Rain"
^^ would be funny but SKTT1 can pay more then any other proteam, i doubt ANY good player will EVER leave SKTT1 if they not want him leave ^^
also mr chea says they will say the reasons later so there ARE reasons and sofar its fine
hope 2nd seed protoss too, to less protoss in code s so far (6p 9t 15z ^^ half zerg, so its good no hots z buffs then they are fair after season 2 )
edit: knowing that OSL will start soon, it would be really understandable to have OSL#1 SEED CODE S and GSL#1 SEED OSL, and GSL cant say it because they have to wait OSL announce their new season ... well its the most logical reason
His salary was set during BW-era where he was godlike. I assume he won't even get a new contract. ~_~
He earns at least double that amount during BW-era, this 100k salary is already reduced significantly to give some to Rain and parting. That's why Bisu and team had some unpleasant last summer. And I still don't believe it is that low.
You just wait for HotS. Bisu will be back.
For the Rain seed mystery: I can't think of anything that would explain this odd sequence of action... Mr Chae will probably come up with a good explanation, but I wonder what that could be...
this thread.....everybody so butt hurt over a seed without knowing the reasons just wait abit til they announce it then you can be butt hurt as much as you want if its not to your liking
They have a reason for this, as the original post said, they can't reveal the reason yet because the reason doesn't only involve GOM. Quit hating on GOM before you don't even know the reason. Besides, idk y ppl are raging over Rain being seeded when so many less deserving seeds were given in the past.
My best bet is either SKT1 playing in GSTL or something KeSPA related since they clearly said an another party is involved.
I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was that he has already won some sort of event for which the matches have been played but the results have not been aired.
So they based it on his actual results in some event, but they can't announce that it's the case because that would spoil this other tournament (whatever event it is).
I don't know what notable ongoing tournament has matches that have already been played though.
I can't understand the rage either, but that are only a few people. Most are simply curious what it is. The timing was extremely odd and the announcement is quite mysterious.
On March 06 2013 17:58 NovemberstOrm wrote: Hello, this is Chae Jung Won...
...First, Rain's seed has no relation to KeSPA,...
... but unfortunately we are not the only ones involved in this happening"...
Sooooo, which other "ones" even ARE in Korea except for Kespa and GOM??? Blizzard, but it is extremely unlikely that they get involved in private tournaments. OGN? Counts as Kespa . And other than that? I can't think of anything.
On March 07 2013 04:32 Fenrax wrote: I can't understand the rage either, but that are only a few people. Most are simply curious what it is. The timing was extremely odd and the announcement is quite mysterious.
On March 06 2013 17:58 NovemberstOrm wrote: Hello, this is Chae Jung Won...
...First, Rain's seed has no relation to KeSPA,...
... but unfortunately we are not the only ones involved in this happening"...
Sooooo, which other "ones" even ARE in Korea except for Kespa and GOM??? Blizzard, but it is extremely unlikely that they get involved in private tournaments. OGN? Counts as Kespa . And other than that? I can't think of anything.
It could be related to the GomTV HOTS Special and Blizzard was involved.
I'll go ahead and say this has something to do with the OSL. Mr. Chae is smart enough not to reveal any information regarding the OSL prior to its official announcement. I did not believe the OSL reason was valid until reading Mr.Chae's statement, where it becomes pretty obvious he is holding some information back. In the end, don't really care if they gave it to Rain, were guaranteed some good games that way.
On March 07 2013 04:40 ilraheeb wrote: I'll go ahead and say this has something to do with the OSL. Mr. Chae is smart enough not to reveal any information regarding the OSL prior to its official announcement. I did not believe the OSL reason was valid until reading Mr.Chae's statement, where it becomes pretty obvious he is holding some information back. In the end, don't really care if they gave it to Rain, were guaranteed some good games that way.
Yeah, the champion cross seeds would make the most sense. But Mr Chae stated that it is not related in any form to Kespa. Now technically OGN isn't Kespa but they are so close that it would still be very deceiving and dishonest from him.
On March 07 2013 04:29 mDuo13 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was that he has already won some sort of event for which the matches have been played but the results have not been aired.
So they based it on his actual results in some event, but they can't announce that it's the case because that would spoil this other tournament (whatever event it is).
I don't know what notable ongoing tournament has matches that have already been played though.
yeah i was thinking maybe they did some kind of hots beta tournament for one or two seeds 'privately' (maybe even online) and wanna broadcast it over the next week or something. it would kinda make sense given that everybody qualified through wol for some reason even though the next season is gonna be hots, so they would have at least two hots qualified guys. also the beta is down now so they would have to have done this tournament earlier and could then broadcast it later... but i don't know, it doesn't really make all that much sense now that i think about it, given that hots comes out in 6 days and code S finals are on saturday so i don't really see when they would broadcast that.
Sooooo, which other "ones" even ARE in Korea except for Kespa and GOM??? Blizzard, but it is extremely unlikely that they get involved in private tournaments. OGN? Counts as Kespa . And other than that? I can't think of anything.
Why necessarily in Korea?
My wild guess would be it has something to do with MLG so it is going to be announced at MLG. Rain lost his place in Code S due to MLG after all.
Even more likely it has something to do with KesPA, it's just that KesPA didnt force them. Maybe an agreement, OSL winner gets a seed into Code S and vice versa, or something like that.
To be honest, what's the big deal? They have never gave detailed explanations for their seeds before. And they have invited people to code S more than once. I don't see the big problem here.
It sounds like Rain won something related to the launch event that was played on beta so the outcome is already known but they want to keep it secret to not spoil it and now they have unintentionally because of fans spazzing out.
On March 07 2013 05:25 phuzi0n wrote: It sounds like Rain won something related to the launch event that was played on beta so the outcome is already known but they want to keep it secret to not spoil it and now they have unintentionally because of fans spazzing out.
well, whatever the reason is, they kinda had to announce Rain getting a seed today cause of the U&D group...
Aren't most conspiracies followed up with that it isn't a conspiracy?!?!?!?!? :D but yea I have no clue as to why this is happening since he was in U&D matches. Its not like he wasnt even in GSL but guess we'll have to just wait for the "real reason" - conspiracy :D
I for one love announcements of announcements. There is absolutely no better way to hype whatever you are wanting to say. No better way to grasp everyone's attention to whatever the reason may be. I'm already prepared to be absolutely blown away with the secret reason SKT_Rain got seeded over his other peers.
Why is there such a reaction because of this seed? Even if GOM provided no reason (which they will provide), this pick makes more sense than any foreigner that got a free seed aside from Stephano.
On March 07 2013 06:09 TommyP wrote: I think every player I root for loses and every player I don't like gets so lucky. Same thing in traditional sports too FML
regardless of the reasoning, i hate seeds
Seriously? Maybe it's because you're so vocal in LR threads whenever an MVP player wins, but it seems your favorite players do quite well.
Even if his current salary isn't high, it does not matter. I don't know when his contract expires, but with his skill and fame he can negotiate a very good contract from SKT.
The hyperdefensive tone of the announcement makes it appear more than likely that one (or more than one) of the things that it tries to deny is exactly what happened.
On March 06 2013 17:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Why not just play the wild card group for the last 2 spots in code S instead of doing seeds. what the fuck!
That would be a good idea. I could see them giving a code s sees to foreigners just for viewership. I would rather see naniwa than rain play.
On March 07 2013 07:42 Talin wrote: The hyperdefensive tone of the announcement makes it appear more than likely that one (or more than one) of the things that it tries to deny is exactly what happened.
This was exactly what I was thinking when I read it.
I assume this has to do with that they feel they were at fault when Rain was forced to forfeit his code s seed something like 2 season ago. Really strange move but that is the only thing that makes any sense at all.
really guys? yes it's kind of cheeky to seed him twice, but he always gives great games, and the giraffe race could always use more representation in the gsl considering their terrible representation lately.
Maybe this is some OSL/GSL winnner exchange rule and we can't hear the full announcement yet because no new OSL has been officially announced? Would be awesome if OSL came back with Hots.
On March 07 2013 08:35 Dwelf wrote: Maybe this is some OSL/GSL winnner exchange rule and we can't hear the full announcement yet because no new OSL has been officially announced? Would be awesome if OSL came back with Hots.
DoA already somewhat confirmed OSL would be back with HoTS, but he obviously couldn't say when.
It might certainly have something to do with this though.
On March 07 2013 08:31 Acer1791 wrote: maybe rain sponsors gom now and as matter of fact he is granted 50% of the ucoming gsl titles. just a speculation though
On March 07 2013 08:35 Dwelf wrote: Maybe this is some OSL/GSL winnner exchange rule and we can't hear the full announcement yet because no new OSL has been officially announced? Would be awesome if OSL came back with Hots.
DoA already somewhat confirmed OSL would be back with HoTS, but he obviously couldn't say when.
It might certainly have something to do with this though.
I thought he gave a rough estimate of it being sometime in April? I thought I read that somewhere but of course it was just speculation and nothing concrete yet.
On March 07 2013 08:35 Dwelf wrote: Maybe this is some OSL/GSL winnner exchange rule and we can't hear the full announcement yet because no new OSL has been officially announced? Would be awesome if OSL came back with Hots.
DoA already somewhat confirmed OSL would be back with HoTS, but he obviously couldn't say when.
It might certainly have something to do with this though.
I thought he gave a rough estimate of it being sometime in April? I thought I read that somewhere but of course it was just speculation and nothing concrete yet.
I asked earlier in the thread, couldn't remember if it was march or april. Nobody answered, but I don't think it was any later than april
got no problem with it. Rain was one of the higher profile players that hasnt in code S yet and he won OSL. if the only ppl that play in a tournament are the ppl that qualified for it then there would have to be an open bracket for everything. while it might be desirable I dont think its feasible for organizers.
On March 07 2013 10:14 nachtkap wrote: got no problem with it. Rain was one of the higher profile players that hasnt in code S yet and he won OSL. if the only ppl that play in a tournament are the ppl that qualified for it then there would have to be an open bracket for everything. while it might be desirable I dont think its feasible for organizers.
I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
I'm glad Rain got the seed! We need more Protoss, more Kespa and Rain, which builds hype and makes the league more exciting! Moreover, Rain can definitely compete at the Code S level.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
I think that all tournaments should randomly seed players ahead of their opponents because it would produce better games and make it more exciting apparently. IEM should have followed GSL's example and suddenly seeded players like MC right before they had to play instead of letting them lose early.
On March 07 2013 10:59 partydude89 wrote: But he "bailed out" of code S spot for an MLG...
and Yonghwa doesnt deserve to be in code A since he bailed to attend IEM. see what I did there? LG seemed to want him there so he went. gomTV had good reasons in the past and I'll assume the same this time. that is until their track record changed significantly.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
But he "bailed out" of code S spot for an MLG...
He was forced to "bail out".
He was not. He and Boxer said Rain chose MLG.
what did you expect him to say? "no, I can't play in GSL because KeSPA forced me to go own MLG."
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
But he "bailed out" of code S spot for an MLG...
He was forced to "bail out".
He was not. He and Boxer said Rain chose MLG.
there's no personal choice thing in kespa, especially in skt.
On March 07 2013 10:46 nakedsurfer wrote: I really like Chae's statement. He is what every PA person/company or even player should look to or watch when dealing with statements or announcements. I think he does a fantastic job which is another reason why GSL is so successful.
Props to him and his team. I look forward to next season and his reason why he seeded Rain.
He doesn't really need a huge reason to be honest though. Rain is a code S player indeed and wouldn't bail out of GSL like most foreigners end up doing.
But he "bailed out" of code S spot for an MLG...
He was forced to "bail out".
He was not. He and Boxer said Rain chose MLG.
there's no personal choice thing in kespa, especially in skt.
You have a young person given the chance to travel to America, or stay in Korea and compete in a tournament that happens multiple times a year. Let's not forget all the statements that were made at the time stating that it was Rain's choice to compete in MLG, not KESPA.
On March 07 2013 10:59 partydude89 wrote: But he "bailed out" of code S spot for an MLG...
and Yonghwa doesnt deserve to be in code A since he bailed to attend IEM. see what I did there? LG seemed to want him there so he went. gomTV had good reasons in the past and I'll assume the same this time. that is until their track record changed significantly.
Im not saying Rain doesn't deserve to be in code S, But the comment that i was responding to said that rain wouldn't pull a foreigner. when in fact he already has.
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
Well, why would they announce the end of the year tournament now? The Blizzard Cup for 2012 and 2013 wasn't announced until couple weeks before the tournament.
It could be a tournament at the beginning of this year..
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
conspiracy! TL didn't make a post about HerO in the up and downs this season because all of 2013 has already been played and they knew he wasnt going to make it!
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
Well, why would they announce the end of the year tournament now? The Blizzard Cup for 2012 and 2013 wasn't announced until couple weeks before the tournament.
It could be a tournament at the beginning of this year..
But Rain hasn't been a champion or runner up of anything in 2013.
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
Well, why would they announce the end of the year tournament now? The Blizzard Cup for 2012 and 2013 wasn't announced until couple weeks before the tournament.
It could be a tournament at the beginning of this year..
But Rain hasn't been a champion or runner up of anything in 2013.
Rain wins this cup/gets 2nd. No other explanation.
too bad this tournament is spoiled?!
I mean I can't read Korean, but the champions and runner ups of 2013 sounds more like an end of the year tournament like Blizzard Cup. Unless you're suggesting the finalists of every GSL season this year have already been determined in advance and the games have already been played.
Well, why would they announce the end of the year tournament now? The Blizzard Cup for 2012 and 2013 wasn't announced until couple weeks before the tournament.
It could be a tournament at the beginning of this year..
But Rain hasn't been a champion or runner up of anything in 2013.
On March 07 2013 13:14 acrimoneyius wrote: Fuck..there are only 3 players I even root for, and Byun is one of them. This is really unfair towards the rest of the group :/.
The only player who gained more from this than the rest of the group E is Rain himself. There was one less very strong player in the group to get past to make it out.
It's unfair on the players who got 3rd place since there's not going to be a wild card group to give them another chance to make it in to code S. That's a shame since Noblesse looked like a beast in his group.
On March 07 2013 13:14 acrimoneyius wrote: Fuck..there are only 3 players I even root for, and Byun is one of them. This is really unfair towards the rest of the group :/.
This is good for the players in the group because now they don't have to play against rain. If Byun didnt make it out as is he wasn't going to with rain to play as well. This is unfair for the other groups, especially those who came 3rd.
Rain dropped out of code S as his schedule conflicted with his ro32 matches. If you recall, life and other players can attend to both tournaments so it wasn't fair for him at that point.
On March 07 2013 14:59 xluik wrote: Rain dropped out of code S as his schedule conflicted with his ro32 matches. If you recall, life and other players can attend to both tournaments so it wasn't fair for him at that point.
: /
If Rain had informed GOM a week before, he would have gotten his group moved. It was a last second/spur of the moment decision from SKT to send Rain to Dallas, putting GOM in a hard place.
Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
I dont know for sure but those fangirls & fanboys that sound like girls of the top KeSPA players are many. And they are Korean you know. GOM wins big when they get KeSPA in the GSL but as for foreigner in the GSL? not so much
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
So set up a foreigner only mini-tournament for the Code S seed. Have it as little as 4 people but at least have something. This handing out invite crap needs to stop. The majority of the time it ends up as a joke. Let them earn it by at least beating someone else in their "class" for it. At the very least we'll get the best(at the time) out of those 4 or 8 or whatever.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
How do you get the number 90%? You know all Korean SC2 fans? You are a politician or the number of SC2 fans is just too small. Or show us a poll plz, and prove all Korean SC2 fans participated in that or prove statistical significance of the sample.
Or another option, just admit you are making things up from your own biased fanboy's head.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Because she doesn't deserve it.
Did Jaedong deserved it ? Does Stephano deserve it ? Does anyone really deserve it if he (or she) cannot qualify by the regular way ? Not really but it brings viewers. Kespa/foreigners against "classics" ESF players is good for viewers. Remember that GOM is a company. Goal is to make money, and this goes by bringing viewers.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
to be fair we have the like of Rain, InCa, Genius, TOP in the GSL ro2 you know. Nothing wrong with reverse-killing Flash, 3-0 Rain (the actual champ) and 3-0 MC
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
Stephano != Scarlett in fact Stephano != all current foreigners at their current skill level however the fact remains that Stephano is still only a borderline Code A/S player.
And do they really bring the viewers? Everyone says this but I swear there wasn't a change in viewers when Stephano was on over other people.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
How do you get the number 90%? You know all Korean SC2 fans? You are a politician or the number of SC2 fans is just too small. Or show us a poll plz, and prove all Korean SC2 fans participated in that or prove statistical significance of the sample.
Or another option, just admit you are making things up from your own biased fanboy's head.
im saying roughly. Oh please. go look up to vods of OSL and compare it to GSL season 4 and you'll see what i mean. This isnt broodwar where OSL was the most prestigious league of all (well some treat MSL equally)..
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
to be fair we have the like of Rain, InCa, Genius, TOP in the GSL ro2 you know. Nothing wrong with reverse-killing Flash, 3-0 Rain (the actual champ) and 3-0 MC
Last didnt win mc 3-0, he beat mc three times in a row only to get reverse all killed by mc. Inca, Rain, Genius and TOP were actually great players back then, all of those mentioned were open season beasts/ regular code s ,they just faded away and became irrelevant since early 2012.
I find it extremely funny to see people who have virtually zero idea about the korean scene talk out of their ass. Ive seen the live threads in fomos, pgr and playxp and majority of them were going on about how shitty OSL was and were constantly bashing commentating, production, format etc.
On March 07 2013 22:11 opterown wrote: i'm pretty sure naniwa, when he was getting RO8s in GSL was pulling huge numbers (i base my judgement on LR thread activity)
I expect nani and jinro pulled numbers as they got significantly deep into the tournament, a foreigner like Stephano getting a foreign seed straight into code S I don't think has the same viewer effect.
I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
Nothing as blatant as giving teams free seeds...
EDIT: Also, Wax, that's a strawman. Nowhere did I say GOM couldn't engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition--I said that GOM shouldn't mess with the outcome of said competition in order to increase viewer activities. It would be totally okay for GOM to, say, make what should be Bo5s into Bo7s because that makes people more or less likely to watch, or schedule matches when the most people can see them, or even put star players into easier groups (although that's as far as I would take it). But giving 'popular' players free rides? What the heck... if Starcraft wants to be taken seriously as an eSport, it needs to move past this sort of BS.
EDIT #2: Did you ever see the OSL handing out seeds to popular players? Nope. Savior, Oov, Bisu, Jaedong, Flash--all of them had to earn their way in through the ODT crapshoot. But nope, I guess the GSL feels like skill shouldn't matter to who gets a spot in line and who doesn't. What message do you think that sends to the guys who are practicing ten or fifteen hours a day trying for that slim chance at getting a spot?
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
Also OSL may appear to be a joke to many of the new foreigners to Starcraft, which I guess your one of them, but the OSL has a lot of prestige to it and every korean knows what the OSL is, compared to uninformed SC2 players outside of Korea. Obviously it lost its touch some with the Kespa players being so new to SC2 but should they host the tournament again in Hots it will be a really big deal.
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
Also OSL may appear to be a joke to many of the new foreigners to Starcraft, which I guess your one of them, but the OSL has a lot of prestige to it and every korean knows what the OSL is, compared to uninformed SC2 players outside of Korea. Obviously it lost its touch some with the Kespa players being so new to SC2 but should they host the tournament again in Hots it will be a really big deal.
i'm pretty sure mongmong is actually korean, correct me if i'm wrong though
On March 07 2013 02:47 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm gonna be honest this seems like complete bullshit. Sniper would win between the two in overall GSL points am I correct? They better have a really good reason why he got a walkover in the hardest tournament in the world.
Sniper won a GSL, Rain won an OSL, so that's roughly equivalent, but Rain is much more popular. It's unexpected, but you can still somewhat justify it.
Hell, remember when they gave Idra and Sen seeds to GSL Season 1 in 2012? Sen hadn't even placed higher than 3rd at a premier tournament, and Idra had only won IEM Guangzhou, against relatively light competition. This is much more reasonable than that at least.
LMFAO no GSL and OSL are not equivalent, mayble OSL in the future but the quality of play, Commentators, observers, they werent even upto par with GSL. I say this as a broodwar fan who has followed the scene since SKY OSL 2002 (which Reach won ). The Wings of Liberty OSL was a pretty much joke to me, I even had to mute the stream because the commentating was abosolutely god awful.
I don't see how commentator quality, observer quality, etc. is relevant to how difficult a tournament is. Beside, OSL does have that brand recognition in Korea over GSL.
it does. Ill just put it simply, BW is over in korea, well not exactly if you count Afreeca Star league. But just think about the opponents Rain had to beat to win OSL and compare them to opponents that Life had to beat to win Season 4 ^^. Btw 90% of the korean sc2 fans think GSL >>>>>>>.OSL, i say this because you mentioned brand recognition in Korea ^^ lol.
p.s: the wings of liberty OSL was a joke compared to GSL because they also held a separate prelims and dual tournament until ro 16. Also Last made it to ro 4 in OSL and Youd never see bad players like STX Last in the ro4 in GSL.
Also OSL may appear to be a joke to many of the new foreigners to Starcraft, which I guess your one of them, but the OSL has a lot of prestige to it and every korean knows what the OSL is, compared to uninformed SC2 players outside of Korea. Obviously it lost its touch some with the Kespa players being so new to SC2 but should they host the tournament again in Hots it will be a really big deal.
i'm pretty sure mongmong is actually korean, correct me if i'm wrong though
Unless more koreans spoke up I'd have a hard time believing the next OSL wouldn't be taken as seriously as a GSL. However I will agree with him if the OSL does not come out in the next couple months. Their window for relevancy is closing fast.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
Lol no, I'm sorry Stephano has not proven he deserves a Code S spot. He's won 1 best of 3 series in GSL in the Losers Match in ro32, lost his one Code A best of three, and then got a 4-man group with MKP and two relatively weak Protoss players. The only thing proven so far is that GOM is really, really desperate to have Stephano in Code S no matter what.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The critical differences between SC2 and your NBA analogy are 1) the barrier for entry of foreigners into Korean leagues is very steep given the need to travel across the world in order to be in the right practice environment, which then is potentially emotionally unhealthy and difficult to be isolated behind a language barrier, as many foreigners have stated, and 2) SC2 needs all the viewers it can get. There's a reason MLG is doing qualifiers by region and there's a reason WCS was probably the highest concurrent viewership of 2012. If you want sustainability long- term you need foreigners - facts are facts.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
The most recent example of this would be Ibaka not being suspended after egregiously punching Blake Griffin in the groin, when Ibaka was due to play in a nationally televised and hyped game against the Lakers the next day.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
The most recent example of this would be Ibaka not being suspended after egregiously punching Blake Griffin in the groin, when Ibaka was due to play in a nationally televised and hyped game against the Lakers the next day.
That's completely different from seeding a team into the playoffs based on their popularity...
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
Not to mention the start of an expansion when things aren't figured out yet is pretty much the only time foreigners are even relevant skill-wise.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
The most recent example of this would be Ibaka not being suspended after egregiously punching Blake Griffin in the groin, when Ibaka was due to play in a nationally televised and hyped game against the Lakers the next day.
That's completely different from seeding a team into the playoffs based on their popularity...
You must not watch the NBA lol The Lakers have a huge history of being favored by referees for more ratings. The commissioner himself once said that his ideal NBA Finals would be Lakers vs. Lakers, and any NBA fan still remembers the Kings series to this day lol The heat and thunder get similar treatment now. As a Spurs fan, the discrepancy is obvious.
Still waiting on the explanation for Rain's seed and if the "Rain's seed has no relation to KeSPA" statement holds true.
For the other seed, the only deserving player atm is MvP.With his IEM performance he has proven that he still has got it (even if he loses in 1/4 he would still be 5-1 against solid opponents), and his accomplishments are unrivaled.
On March 07 2013 16:55 SoFrOsTy wrote: Mmm... He deserved it IMO. He still the best toss in the game right now. No one plays as well as him. WOL Toss is struggling and yet he still has a positive win rate against pros using safe builds. He rare all-ins.
I don't see how you can claim he is better then Parting tbh.
And MC...
Btw, i really believe the last seed is for Scarlett. I believe they have invited her already, and she's gonna go to Korea to play GSTL so why not play Code S also ?
Please no. No more foreign seeds!
They bring in the viewers, and that's important. Especially with HotS coming out, they need to capitalize on all the buzz they can. Besides, Stephano has managed to show he deserves his slot. It's possible someone else can too.
Lol no, I'm sorry Stephano has not proven he deserves a Code S spot. He's won 1 best of 3 series in GSL in the Losers Match in ro32, lost his one Code A best of three, and then got a 4-man group with MKP and two relatively weak Protoss players. The only thing proven so far is that GOM is really, really desperate to have Stephano in Code S no matter what.
That's not totally fair, Bogus was playing really well and their first series was really close, he came 3rd in his group which isn't a bad show for a group with an on fire DRG and an on form Bogus.
On March 08 2013 00:09 Doodsmack wrote: I'd be shocked if foreigner presence didn't increase viewership. And you have to look at VOD views not just live viewers. Especially if the foreigner advances far. For that reason it's justified. Would be awesome if Scarlett got the other seed.
And anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over these seeds needs to lay off the drama. We really could do without the excessive drama over minor issues.
The issue here is that many of us would rather have watch a tournament where the outcome wasn't messed with to increase viewership numbers. It's the same feeling of revulsion if the NBA started awarding playoff spots to the Lakers or the Bulls every year because those teams were 'popular' and increased TV viewership numbers.
The NBA dOES engage in viewership increasing activities at the cost of competition tho
The most recent example of this would be Ibaka not being suspended after egregiously punching Blake Griffin in the groin, when Ibaka was due to play in a nationally televised and hyped game against the Lakers the next day.
That's completely different from seeding a team into the playoffs based on their popularity...
You must not watch the NBA lol The Lakers have a huge history of being favored by referees for more ratings. The commissioner himself once said that his ideal NBA Finals would be Lakers vs. Lakers, and any NBA fan still remembers the Kings series to this day lol The heat and thunder get similar treatment now. As a Spurs fan, the discrepancy is obvious.
As a spurs fan i understand the pain. When the Spurs make finals, the NBA loses out on a lot of revenue.
This has to be partially because he is protoss and partially because he had the misfortune of facing Flash in his Ro24 match. GSL needs more tosses for their first HotS tournament so that would be reasonable in my eyes, considering they NEED to seed somebody. After all, how many players should be eligible to get seeded anyways?
On March 08 2013 08:31 13JackaL wrote: This has to be partially because he is protoss and partially because he had the misfortune of facing Flash in his Ro24 match. GSL needs more tosses for their first HotS tournament so that would be reasonable in my eyes, considering they NEED to seed somebody. After all, how many players should be eligible to get seeded anyways?
But the letter said it's not about league popularity, so the reason about seeding popular protoss doesn't seem to fit this explanation letter.
I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
I can't decide if Rain would best shut down his critics by winning the whole thing or by getting completely mauled. I'm looking forward to the explanation for this (almost) unprecedented action.
stephano said that he didn't want to return to korea.. so they gave his spot to rain. the remaigning seed will problaby go to scarlett because foreigners need something to cheer for
On March 09 2013 03:04 bram--1995 wrote: stephano said that he didn't want to return to korea.. so they gave his spot to rain. the remaigning seed will problaby go to scarlett because foreigners need something to cheer for
In your case you have a spot empty -1 Stephano -2 seeds +1 Scarllet +1 Rain = -1
On March 09 2013 03:04 bram--1995 wrote: stephano said that he didn't want to return to korea.. so they gave his spot to rain. the remaigning seed will problaby go to scarlett because foreigners need something to cheer for
In your case you have a spot empty -1 Stephano -2 seeds +1 Scarllet +1 Rain = -1
Actually they might be giving up on seeding foreigners. Last season Stephano's Ro32 group got fewer twitch views and VOD views than Mvp's group or NesTea's group. Maybe the live views on GomTV were enough to make up for it but I doubt it.
On March 09 2013 03:40 jalstar wrote: If Stephano's actually giving up his Code S spot that's 3 seeds and not 2 right?
Scarlett, Rain, Mvp. Easy choices.
I hope this would be true if MVP won IEM. But what if he didn't. Would it be MLG champion maybe?
As I pointed out Mvp is an even bigger draw than Stephano is. They'd be crazy not to seed him especially since he's proven this weekend that he can play HotS really well.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
Imagine if they just picked Bisu out of popularity for that OSL, and then he died to somebody like go.go or Shine?
I've thought this over, and now I am sure it is the GSL/OSL champions get seeds into the other league (and they consider OSL as OGN's property, not Kespa's). Nothing else makes sense so it is this.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
Imagine if they just picked Bisu out of popularity for that OSL, and then he died to somebody like go.go or Shine?
ouch, to a former bisu fan like me, this was a real low blow.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
Imagine if they just picked Bisu out of popularity for that OSL, and then he died to somebody like go.go or Shine?
ouch, to a former bisu fan like me, this was a real low blow.
FORMER Bisu fan? You just wait for HotS, then you will come back.
On March 09 2013 15:14 Fenrax wrote: I've thought this over, and now I am sure it is the GSL/OSL champions get seeds into the other league (and they consider OSL as OGN's property, not Kespa's). Nothing else makes sense so it is this.
On March 09 2013 15:14 Fenrax wrote: I've thought this over, and now I am sure it is the GSL/OSL champions get seeds into the other league (and they consider OSL as OGN's property, not Kespa's). Nothing else makes sense so it is this.
Idd, seems what is likely to happen now. And i guess the winner of RoRo/Symbol will get into OSL. Seems reasonable to me now. Nice if the OSL is coming back.
Mvp drops to Code B, so he can practice HotS exclusively. At IEM, he destroys everyone with speed medivacs and widow mines, and get's the seed into Code S, then he goes to MLG and wins that cashing another bunch of money on top of the $30k of IEM, then he gets back to Korea for Code S and destroys Code S as everyone else was practicing WoL for up and downs.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
Imagine if they just picked Bisu out of popularity for that OSL, and then he died to somebody like go.go or Shine?
ouch, to a former bisu fan like me, this was a real low blow.
FORMER Bisu fan? You just wait for HotS, then you will come back.
Shine is in Code S buddy, not going to happen lol.
On March 08 2013 10:35 BradenKuntz wrote: I thought the whole idea of having a wild card group was really freaking awesome, so I'm kind of bummed to see that's not going to happen anymore. I'm not saying giving out seeds is a bad thing, I'm just really curious (right along with everyone else) what their reasoning is going to be behind this. I'm sure it'll be a good reason, GOM has been pretty good over the years at being very professional. Still, I'm just really curious about it all though.
yeah, wildcard groups have the potential to be epic. does anyone remember jangbi's run of awesomeness that started in an insanely stacked wildcard group, picked up on the "legend of the tiebreaker" introduced by effort, then sending god young ho flash to the hospital, followed by a sick 5 set final with a nailbiting game 5 including an impossible comeback by jangbi. all that began in the wildcard groups. wildcardgroups induce awesomeness.
Imagine if they just picked Bisu out of popularity for that OSL, and then he died to somebody like go.go or Shine?
ouch, to a former bisu fan like me, this was a real low blow.
FORMER Bisu fan? You just wait for HotS, then you will come back.
Shine is in Code S buddy, not going to happen lol.
Pretty sure he's talking about Jangbi's first OSL win.
On March 09 2013 20:32 alvadr wrote: IEM winner will be second seed.
IPL was going to be first, but it was cancelled.
Now here is where it get's mindblowing.
Mvp drops to Code B, so he can practice HotS exclusively. At IEM, he destroys everyone with speed medivacs and widow mines, and get's the seed into Code S, then he goes to MLG and wins that cashing another bunch of money on top of the $30k of IEM, then he gets back to Korea for Code S and destroys Code S as everyone else was practicing WoL for up and downs.
YoDa is already Code S. First deserves the spot more after IEM but I still think Mvp will get it. Mvp draws more viewers than anyone else besides maybe MC.
On March 10 2013 10:28 jalstar wrote: YoDa is already Code S. First deserves the spot more after IEM but I still think Mvp will get it. Mvp draws more viewers than anyone else besides maybe MC.
MVP vs YoDa was much closer than YoDa vs First. He would probably have gotten second if he did not have the misfortune of being on the same side of the bracket as YoDa. I think MVP deserves the seed more than First.
well if they want to give a seed to MVP they could basically say something along the lines of "he is the ultimate GSL WoL champion" <insert random number of titles, finals, points to justify it> rather than "well he performed good at IEM so hmm, let's take that guy again". the fact that he did good at IEM should motivate them to do so though, as he proved he is in sharp shape on Hots and this could create an epic storyline. but as my own mythology goes, since he is actullay good on hots, i'd rather have him somehow get a Code A spot instead, crawl his way back to code S season 3 and then destroy it. the return of the fallen king.
The second seed should go MVP. The point of seeds was never purely based on one single result unless it was previously announced. It was usually a combination "who draws most viewers" and "who deserves it most". And I think in BOTH categories MVP is a class of its own.
On March 13 2013 00:17 blacksheepwall wrote: Did GOM ever explain what they said would be coming? I see the OP hasn't been updated and I haven't seen anything in the past couple of pages.
What was the big thing that made them seed Rain?
No new updates AFAIK. My assumption is we will hear something this week.
GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
On March 09 2013 15:14 Fenrax wrote: I've thought this over, and now I am sure it is the GSL/OSL champions get seeds into the other league (and they consider OSL as OGN's property, not Kespa's). Nothing else makes sense so it is this.
Yea, that sounds reasonable. Would also explain, why thay can't announce it yet as the OSL isn't officially announced so far afaik.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Thing is that kind of already happened with MC. Got a seed right after he got knocked out of GSL (By sniper, i believe!)
He did place highly at some international tournament in order to receive that seed though.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Rain got one and in hindsight he makes much less sense than Mvp, though we will see what the official statement is.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Thing is that kind of already happened with MC. Got a seed right after he got knocked out of GSL (By sniper, i believe!)
He did place highly at some international tournament in order to receive that seed though.
IIRC, the seed was a predetermined prize from that tournament. It wasn't gom's call.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while. Rain also already got a Code S seed before, then forfeited his matches and got owned in Code A. not sure how that makes him the best choice for another seed.
also, HotS is a different game and MVP has already shown he's pretty good at HotS with his LG-IEM performance. just saying. i understand why MVP is not a perfect choice, but he's a much better one than Rain imo.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Thing is that kind of already happened with MC. Got a seed right after he got knocked out of GSL (By sniper, i believe!)
He did place highly at some international tournament in order to receive that seed though.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
Err... ah, nvm you are talking about his first seed into the GSL.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Thing is that kind of already happened with MC. Got a seed right after he got knocked out of GSL (By sniper, i believe!)
He did place highly at some international tournament in order to receive that seed though.
He was knocked into Code B by Monster
damnit mike, why you always gotta make me look bad :<
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
Thing is that kind of already happened with MC. Got a seed right after he got knocked out of GSL (By sniper, i believe!)
He did place highly at some international tournament in order to receive that seed though.
IIRC, the seed was a predetermined prize from that tournament. It wasn't gom's call.
Yes it was. Hoghest non-Code S player in the top 3 at MLG used to automatically get a Code S seed.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
This is true, his play has largely been lack luster. His opponents in Proleague haven't been particularly formidable (most of which were from EG TL). I feel like he hasn't progressed much in recent months compared to his debut where he had an astounding level of understanding in what constitutes the world's best Protoss. Seems like he lost his edge. Even so, he is still a solid player no doubt.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
I can see that. But to be fair there were not many tournaments for him to play in to begin with in the past 5 months. He actually only failed once, in the Code A RO48, after making it through Code B he lost to some cheese G1 and super greed G2 if I recall correctly. The next GSL he went to the round of 24 and lost to Flash which isn't a shame. Other than that, there just weren't any offline tournaments in which he could have played so the lack of results is just due to the tournament structure and not an indicator that his skill crumbled.
On MVP I agree with you. He should be the one rewarded the last seed.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
What did he do before all that ? Maybe my memory was erased or something because i can't remember anything that Rain did before that run, and after it most of his results didn't live up to the expectations. I don't think he is some "kespa dude", but he hasn't showed amazing results after that. A few wins on proleague and even there, there are more "kespa dudes" who are not on code S and would deserve it more.
Anyways, i guess it's about giving the OSL champ a seed, nothing wrong about that.
well he couldn't really do much since he was still playing broodwar^^
Yes he wasn't a star player but he was a up and coming player who made his way onto A team and actually played an won games in proleague which is pretty good accomplishment.
In my opinion he was on his way to becoming a good player in brood war and now is on his way to becoming a greater player in sc2. either way his rise is undeniable.
nothing announced at MLG. Not even the announcement of an announcement. It is about time for them to name the last slot and tell us why Rain got seeded.
nothing announced at MLG. Not even the announcement of an announcement. It is about time for them to name the last slot and tell us why Rain got seeded.
Well, what has GOM to do with MLG? Sundance is passive aggressive against GOM ever since the Naniwa stuff. Doubt they would announce something there.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
So were discussing Mvp versus Rain right? I'm probably going to be maimed by legions of Mvp fans for this, but what has Mvp done lately since losing to Life in season 4(the same season Rain went round of 4)???
- Gotten knocked out of GSL entirely in season 1 of 2013. - Feasted on some foreigners at IEM(only Korean he beat at IEM was Dream in the group stage.) - Got knocked out of MLG in the ro16 by MC 3-1.
Based on his recent performance, Mvp does not deserve the last Code S seed at all. It's not fair to dismiss Rain's run around Season Four as too long ago, and then start counting up Mvp's GSLs from almost a year ago as reasons why he should get the seed instead.
Rain placed better than Mvp did at MLG too just as another piece of evidence.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
So were discussing Mvp versus Rain right? I'm probably going to be maimed by legions of Mvp fans for this, but what has Mvp done lately since losing to Life in season 4(the same season Rain went round of 4)???
- Gotten knocked out of GSL entirely in season 1 of 2013. - Feasted on some foreigners at IEM(only Korean he beat at IEM was Dream in the group stage.) - Got knocked out of MLG in the ro16 by MC 3-1.
Based on his recent performance, Mvp does not deserve the last Code S seed at all. It's not fair to dismiss Rain's run around Season Four as too long ago, and then start counting up Mvp's GSLs from almost a year ago as reasons why he should get the seed instead.
Rain placed better than Mvp did at MLG too just as another piece of evidence.
Honestly, going by pure HotS skill (since this next GSL is HotS), Mvp has looked extremely strong. By the way, Mvp also beat Golden in the group stages, another Korean. Of course I have Mvp-bias, but this is Mvp's first time out of the GSL. Ever since the first Code S (which Mvp won), Mvp has showed us great performances, championships, and consistency (he won the NesTea award after all). I think out of anyone in the GSL, Mvp deserves a second chance the most.
Remember that time when Mvp got knocked out early in GSL Season 3, bombed HSC so badly (he lost to so many foreigners...), failed to win NVIDIA Gaming Festival (which was supposed to be easy money), and just generally looked really really bad in every single game he played... and then he almost won GSL Season 4 (after he did win IEM)? The point is Mvp always looks beaten, then comes back with championship caliber play. Just looking at his recent results does not always tell the full story. He's certainly a better candidate for a seed than Stephano was.
On March 14 2013 03:46 Baroninthetree wrote: GOMTV chose Rain over MVP is not only stupid, but also brutally stupid. I won't buy the season ticket if so although i've purchased every single GSL till now. Oh wait, I've already purchased the next season. Damn, then I'll just boycott the next one.
chill out bro, there's still another seed yet to be announced. it may very well be MVP.
Mvp was just ousted last season. Doesn't make much sense to seed in a player that was just knocked out. Especially not when they are rewarding streaks.
then again, MVP is the best WoL player and Rain is some kespa dude that had an impressive run when he first switched to sc2 and then hasn't done much in a while.
Woah calm down.... not done much since then? Since Rain got the seed he:
- won the OSL - won WCS Asia - 3rd placed in said GSL - 3rd placed WCS world finals - flew to MLG, fought through the Open bracket to a 5th place finish - been performing very well in Proleague
That's the impressive run he is speaking about. Last one was on october, almost 5 months ago.
No, an impressive run was why he was rewarded his first seed. What he did afterwards made him easily of the top 10 players in the world. At that point he was even top 1-3 (depending on what you count), now he is still top 10. And not just "some Kespa dude".
what you listed actually WAS the impressive run i was talking about. what did he do before he got the first Code S seed? i can't remember anything tbh, maybe i just forgot though.
"some Kespa dude" was of course hyperbole, but i don't think he's clearly a top 10 player in the world right now. he's been doing pretty well in proleague, i'll give you that, but what has he really done other than that? i'm not trying to hate on Rain btw, when he was on said run his play was amazing and he definitely still is a very good player, just saying he hasn't really shown too many results lately. if they wanted to seed someone that has done particularly well in Proleague there are several dudes ahead of Rain.
So were discussing Mvp versus Rain right? I'm probably going to be maimed by legions of Mvp fans for this, but what has Mvp done lately since losing to Life in season 4(the same season Rain went round of 4)???
- Gotten knocked out of GSL entirely in season 1 of 2013. - Feasted on some foreigners at IEM(only Korean he beat at IEM was Dream in the group stage.) - Got knocked out of MLG in the ro16 by MC 3-1.
Based on his recent performance, Mvp does not deserve the last Code S seed at all. It's not fair to dismiss Rain's run around Season Four as too long ago, and then start counting up Mvp's GSLs from almost a year ago as reasons why he should get the seed instead.
Rain placed better than Mvp did at MLG too just as another piece of evidence.
the same season Rain went to round of 4. yeah, you mean the same season MVP beat Rain in the round of 4 and therefore made it to the finals? not sure what your point is there.
Rain also got knocked out of GSL entirely. he forfeited his Code S group, sure, but he still lost in Code A round 1. Also, that forfeit was kinda disrespectful. blah blah Kespa, but can we really know?
MVP loses to the winningest player in sc2 history who is known for discovering and using very abusive builds - which is precisely what he did against MVP - and who then placed top 4 in the same tournament. Not exactly something to be ashamed of, is it?
sure, MVP now is not MVP in 2011, and he's also not Life now. But I'm not sure in what universe Rain is clearly superior. Either way, since a second seed is still to be announced, they could both be getting seeds anyways. I can't really think of anyone that isn't in Code S and would deserve it more atm tbh. They might still seed Scarlett or something though.
STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
While reading this thread (when it was mor current), it's amazing the amount of people crying "if MVP doesn't get seeded I'm gonna be REAL pissed!!". Like, why would your favorite player arbitrarily get seeded, then get mad when he doesn't. Chae said long ago that Raingot his seed for a reason other than popularity, which would already lead to the conclusion that the other seed would not be Mvp (he would be a popularity pick). Out of a few dozen great potential picks, you pick one person and demand he gets a seed. Good lord.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
From my perspective, it wasn't really "nothing" though, because there was no reason to be found and Gom wouldn't talk. Obviously Gom had (has) a good reason for seeding Rain, but without anyone knowing what that reason was, it is understandable that some people were upset.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
From my perspective, it wasn't really "nothing" though, because there was no reason to be found and Gom wouldn't talk. Obviously Gom had (has) a good reason for seeding Rain, but without anyone knowing what that reason was, it is understandable that some people were upset.
Mah I could careless about reason as long as games are good. I had cucumber for breakfast I don't even know why.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
From my perspective, it wasn't really "nothing" though, because there was no reason to be found and Gom wouldn't talk. Obviously Gom had (has) a good reason for seeding Rain, but without anyone knowing what that reason was, it is understandable that some people were upset.
If people know nothing (as you admit), they shouldn't get upset because they should hold off for actual information. It's called jumping to conclusions, aka being dramatic.
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
From my perspective, it wasn't really "nothing" though, because there was no reason to be found and Gom wouldn't talk. Obviously Gom had (has) a good reason for seeding Rain, but without anyone knowing what that reason was, it is understandable that some people were upset.
If people know nothing (as you admit), they shouldn't get upset because they should hold off for actual information. It's called jumping to conclusions, aka being dramatic.
I question the wisdom of revealing a player seed first, but the reasoning behind those seeds much later. Whether getting upset was justified or not, Gom should have been able to anticipate those reactions from a mile away.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 06 2013 19:42 Dauntless wrote: To all the idiots speculating and calling bs. Did you even read Gom's statement?
The fact that Rain has received a seed is not due to a random selection of who we wanted. There is a reason why he has been chosen and it will be revealed soon.
Just wait and see what the reasoning is before lashing out.
Soon™ is exactly why everyone in lashing. There is no reason. Everyone wants one, but there isn't one. What do you expect when a reason isn't provided and Rain hasn't done anything of significance since his ro4 finish?
I'd say it'll have to be a pretty damn good reason but it would be wise to at least hear it before making judgements. I'm interested as to what possible reason they could have for this b/c it's so unusual.
So it turns out it was a pretty damn good reason after all. Too bad all the fanboys had to flame GSL before they knew anything.
On March 27 2013 21:05 Clefairy wrote: STX Soul's Last who got 4th in the last OSL is the other seed. DRG and MC are already in Code S so he was the only remaining OSL top 4 finisher. He joins Parting, Leenock, and Life in Code S Group G.
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
From my perspective, it wasn't really "nothing" though, because there was no reason to be found and Gom wouldn't talk. Obviously Gom had (has) a good reason for seeding Rain, but without anyone knowing what that reason was, it is understandable that some people were upset.
If people know nothing (as you admit), they shouldn't get upset because they should hold off for actual information. It's called jumping to conclusions, aka being dramatic.
I question the wisdom of revealing a player seed first, but the reasoning behind those seeds much later. Whether getting upset was justified or not, Gom should have been able to anticipate those reactions from a mile away.
I know an old post but GOMTV sort of had to reveal it because otherwise it wouldn't make sense for Rain to not play his up and down games.
Well, unless they say that Rain can't play his group for some reason... which will be revealed later but that could cause even more speculation than just announcing Rain was seeded.
Despite that though, I agree that discussions like these are fine and most people didn't sound that upset that Rain got seeded (only major complaints came from people who would have preferred an extra Wildcard, which I'd prefer too if this was any other case).
On March 27 2013 22:24 Doodsmack wrote: Well this thread is a good example of people getting dramatic over nothing.
What? The fact that GSL is now seeding the final four OSL players into Code S is nothing?
They have to seed the top 2 OSL players (that are not already in GSL) to the GSL since WCS combined them (that means OSL basically doesn't happen anymore).
If OSL was still separate from the GSL, and ran alongside the GSL still, then yes it wouldn't make sense for them to seed OSL players.
But it would be unfair to OGN/OSL players if Blizzard not only cut off their tournament (by combining it into the WCS and limiting it so it can't run alongside GSL and vice versa) but also didn't give OSL players the same thing GSL players have (the top 8 of each group stays in "Code S").
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Fionn/bysun.gif)
