EPTSigned KT fans everywhere
[Interview] SPL KT vs Samsung Round 2 2012-2013 - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
Signed KT fans everywhere | ||
|
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On January 21 2013 09:29 starfinder wrote: hope bisu appears in <> one day.  many players in this highlights still playing in sc2 Absolutely loved this, thanks! :D | ||
|
starfinder
Japan167 Posts
SC2 is a not-bad game now,but needs someone to improve it for complete. really hope BLZ and Kespa work together,make SC2 into Great too. | ||
|
Goldfish
2230 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:49 starfinder wrote: Broodwar was a good game. kespa and hundreds progamers made it Great . SC2 is a not-bad game now,but needs someone to improve it for complete. really hope BLZ and Kespa work together,make SC2 into Great too. Yeah .Also did I see DTs morph into Dark Archon > cancel > shift move to get past the blocking unit at around 3:05 minute mark of that video? (You can't cancel an archon while it's morphing but you can cancel or "stop" "just" before they actually morph. Before a patch fixed it, you could actually float high templar and dark templar across any terrain by doing that actually. There was a UMS fun map that required the use of several BW glitches to complete.) Epic stuff! Too bad Blizzard is only taking small steps forward in regards to HotS. So many things can be improved IMO. It's not just a BW is better but (IMO) WC3 (besides balance) is better too (though BW and SC2's faster pace of gameplay and 3 distinct races holds more viewers and players). Edit - One of the main problems is the deathball syndrome and the fact that game encourages the use of the deathball (for example, if you split your units to attack two places at once, that's a high risk and low reward, not encouraged at all in SC2 because if you get attacked by your opponent's death ball, while your own is split into 2 smaller groups, then you lose). Wasn't a problem in BW or WC3, you were actually encouraged to split up your units and the battles looked good from spectator point of view too. Watching that BW montage video, the game looks a lot nicer than SC2 in terms of gameplay (how the units are spread out and the wave of science vessels and air units and everything in general... epic game). Edit 2 - At 4:15, the Arbiter dodges 2 EMPs and then manages to stasis two science vessels. Damn... Brood War is so good! (It's almost impossible to dodge EMPs or a lot of stuff in general in SC2.) I never seen that montage video before but that's a good display of why BW is better than SC2. I want SC2 to succeed but they're taking too small steps in making the game better (in terms of design I mean). (Also, cool stuff can happen in SC2 too but in BW, it's much less "luck based" and more skill and player factored. In SC2, everything is clumped up and everything happens much faster than in BW. It's much more chaotic and random and while there are times when epic stuff happens, it's really rare and most cases, it's players being caught in bad position or something.) | ||
|
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On January 21 2013 13:05 Goldfish wrote: Yeah .Also did I see DTs morph into Dark Archon > cancel > shift move to get past the blocking unit at around 3:05 minute mark of that video? (You can't cancel an archon while it's morphing but you can cancel or "stop" "just" before they actually morph. Before a patch fixed it, you could actually float high templar and dark templar across any terrain by doing that actually. There was a UMS fun map that required the use of several BW glitches to complete.) Epic stuff! Too bad Blizzard is only taking small steps forward in regards to HotS. So many things can be improved IMO. It's not just a BW is better but (IMO) WC3 (besides balance) is better too (though BW and SC2's faster pace of gameplay and 3 distinct races holds more viewers and players). Edit - One of the main problems is the deathball syndrome and the fact that game encourages the use of the deathball (for example, if you split your units to attack two places at once, that's a high risk and low reward, not encouraged at all in SC2 because if you get attacked by your opponent's death ball, while your own is split into 2 smaller groups, then you lose). Wasn't a problem in BW or WC3, you were actually encouraged to split up your units and the battles looked good from spectator point of view too. Watching that BW montage video, the game looks a lot nicer than SC2 in terms of gameplay (how the units are spread out and the wave of science vessels and air units and everything in general... epic game). Edit 2 - At 4:15, the Arbiter dodges 2 EMPs and then manages to stasis two science vessels. Damn... Brood War is so good! (It's almost impossible to dodge EMPs or a lot of stuff in general in SC2.) I never seen that montage video before but that's a good display of why BW is better than SC2. I want SC2 to succeed but they're taking too small steps in making the game better (in terms of design I mean). (Also, cool stuff can happen in SC2 too but in BW, it's much less "luck based" and more skill and player factored. In SC2, everything is clumped up and everything happens much faster than in BW. It's much more chaotic and random and while there are times when epic stuff happens, it's really rare and most cases, it's players being caught in bad position or something.) Deathball only occurs due to collision size and grouping of units. I highly doubt SC2 even with the current way balance works would have deathballs if pathing was different. | ||
|
Goldfish
2230 Posts
I remember reading from the WC3's Project Revolution developers stating how one of the huge differences in the game would be the way pathing worked. (WC3 naturally has no deathballs due to how units grouped and always moved in a formation.) Anyway, SC2's battles and a lot of things in SC2 is a bit more random and more chaotic than both BW and WC3. If you're caught out of position one time (or screw up once), it can severely put you behind because of that one mistake. Due to the fog of war and not always knowing where the enemy is (even with a lot of scouting), this makes SC2 a lot more random in the sense that those types of random events are more costly. In both BW and WC3, there were much less potential for game changing mistakes. A lot of stuff is more gradual and slower (though while BW is *slower than SC2, it was still a relatively fast paced RTS). *Slower is good in some cases. I said before but in that BW montage video, the Arbiter at 4:15 managed to dodge two EMPs, then stasis two spread out Science Vessels. In SC2, a lot of stuff is faster and mistakes are more costly in general. Things like the deathball syndrome make the problem worse. Also when I say deathball syndrome, I don't just mean the pathing but how in general (in SC2), you're not encouraged to split up your main fighting force. In both BW and WC3, you had lots of opportunity to split up your army (for example, if you had 100 army supply, splitting them to 50 / 50 and attacking two places at once was viable). In SC2, it's very risky and generally not encouraged to split up your army (also I mean when both you and your opponent have relatively equal army supply), unless it's some weird base trade scenario. Generally, the player that keeps most of their army in one place, wins and lots of things in SC2 reinforce that with how fast armies die and how fast everything in general happens. In BW, the game was much more gradual so even if both you and your opponent had equal army supply, there were lots of moments and times where splitting up was viable with little risk. Also even if your attacking forces were destroyed, there were plenty of time to reproduce units. BW, bases and everything were spread out and maps feel a lot bigger than maps in SC2 (in SC2, even on a huge map like Whirlwind, you still want to keep your army in one place generally). So overall, I feel that one of the more understated (and the most important IMO) reasons that BW is better than SC2 is the fact that in BW, things were slower and more gradual, battles were all over the place, and the game was less random and chaotic. | ||
|
forumtext
575 Posts
| ||
|
derpface
Sweden925 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:08 merinerkongprine wrote: wow, jangbi's eyes look pretty red He plays the best being hungover with minimal sleep. | ||
|
rice_devOurer
United States773 Posts
On January 21 2013 14:35 derpface wrote: He plays the best being hungover with minimal sleep. Yep, my friend played sc2 until 3:30 AM, and he looked like this. I highly doubt that he is taking drugs. | ||
|
Thinasy
2856 Posts
On January 21 2013 14:43 rice_devOurer wrote: Yep, my friend played sc2 until 3:30 AM, and he looked like this. I highly doubt that he is taking drugs. Starcraft is a good enough drug it seems | ||
|
Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
| ||
|
starfinder
Japan167 Posts
On January 21 2013 14:58 Emzeeshady wrote: I think you are neglecting a lot of awesome things about SC2. First and foremost the graphics improvement is huge whether or not you care about it. It is a HUGE improvement as a spectator sport and the animations and graphics are beautiful in SC2. Secondly people only seem to focus on the boring new units that were introduced in SC2 (Colossus, Marauder, Roach) and ignore the AWESOME units they introduced. Banelings are a fantastic unit that completely fits the definition of a "zergy" unit. Not only do they cause excitement and anticipation but they encourage heavy use of micro. Stalkers not only look sick but their speed, projectile and blink ability promote great use of micro and positioning. Lastly hellions are simply a much cooler replacement for vultures and just as deadly. Little is more exciting then watching hellions sneaking past defences and being on the edge of your seat guessing how many workers they will burn! Other great additions such as creep spreading (promotes fighting for map control), nydus and burrow movement all are welcome and exciting changes. I could go on but the point is that the new stuff SC2 brought in isn't all worse then BW. People just focus on the stuff that is because of their nostalgia towards BW. SC2 may not be as great a game as BW but it is still a beautiful game despite its problems. the graphics improvement is not between sc2 and bw,it just a game released 2010 vs 1998. Of cause it must be better. How a game made 2010 have worse graphics than a game 1998? some new units is cool in campaign maybe,but failure in match. Good units must have potentiality to let players show exciting micro with them. | ||
|
Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
| ||
|
Thinasy
2856 Posts
On January 21 2013 14:58 Emzeeshady wrote: I think you are neglecting a lot of awesome things about SC2. First and foremost the graphics improvement is huge whether or not you care about it. It is a HUGE improvement as a spectator sport and the animations and graphics are beautiful in SC2. Secondly people only seem to focus on the boring new units that were introduced in SC2 (Colossus, Marauder, Roach) and ignore the AWESOME units they introduced. Banelings are a fantastic unit that completely fits the definition of a "zergy" unit. Not only do they cause excitement and anticipation but they encourage heavy use of micro. Stalkers not only look sick but their speed, projectile and blink ability promote great use of micro and positioning. Lastly hellions are simply a much cooler replacement for vultures and just as deadly. Little is more exciting then watching hellions sneaking past defences and being on the edge of your seat guessing how many workers they will burn! Other great additions such as creep spreading (promotes fighting for map control), nydus and burrow movement all are welcome and exciting changes. I could go on but the point is that the new stuff SC2 brought in isn't all worse then BW. People just focus on the stuff that is because of their nostalgia towards BW. SC2 may not be as great a game as BW but it is still a beautiful game despite its problems. If you actually think Hellions are as deadly or as cool as Vultures you clearly never watched a game of BW or played it, | ||
|
MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
Will you be attempting GSL Code A? I can't help but feel like that I'll get through as long as I had the time to practice. But the team is so focused on Proleague right now that I can't do any individual practicing unless a window opens up. Some truth to the notion that the SPL is far more important to the KeSPA teams than the GSL. Seriously don't know why people actually tried to argue otherwise. Calling it an excuse and such. I'd say any KeSPA player (other than maybe Jaedong) is a pretty unsafe GSL liquibet during the SPL season. | ||
|
vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On January 21 2013 16:21 MCXD wrote: Some truth to the notion that the SPL is far more important to the KeSPA teams than the GSL. Seriously don't know why people actually tried to argue otherwise. Calling it an excuse and such. I'd say any KeSPA player (other than maybe Jaedong) is a pretty unsafe GSL liquibet during the SPL season. Of course, Kespa teams will focus on SPL as a priority. But that is the same thing as eSF players focusing on GSL. However, they sometimes have to play foreign events in between as well. These events can have different map pools and they also have to play all match ups (they might be focused on a specific match up in GSL). Yet, when they lose in foreign events, we don't see the excuse "They only focus on GSL and don't give a shit about foreign events". | ||
|
baubo
China3370 Posts
On January 21 2013 17:05 vthree wrote: Of course, Kespa teams will focus on SPL as a priority. But that is the same thing as eSF players focusing on GSL. However, they sometimes have to play foreign events in between as well. These events can have different map pools and they also have to play all match ups (they might be focused on a specific match up in GSL). Yet, when they lose in foreign events, we don't see the excuse "They only focus on GSL and don't give a shit about foreign events". Kespa practice schedule may be a little weird for those not familiar. In the BW days, there was the Proleague(year long or 2 times a year) and 3 OSLs/yr + 3 MSLs/yr. Generally, players practice during "work hours" on the proleague. These are official practices performed by the team every work day. It's just like being at a job. For 8hrs/day, you are working for the company and nothing else. Therefore, players practiced for OSL and MSL on their own time, as in after their normal working hours. This is generally in the evenings, sometimes even late into the night, prompting many interviews where players say they basically get no sleep during peak individual league schedule. It's only under special circumstances or special players where they would take time off to practice during "work hours" for individual leagues. Generally, you have to go really far and/or the PL has do be in the offseason. Long story short, it's less about priorities with these plays and more about their mindset. To them, proleague is day job, 9 to 5 job. While individual leagues are like part time jobs. Whereas I feel foreigners and ESF players are more about finding lots of different "part time" jobs. And any one of these part time work may be more important or less important depending on the situation. For Kespa players, short of being Flash or Jangbi and about to play deep into a starleague, there's no choice. They must prepare for the proleague during work, and only work on other stuff in their off time. | ||
|
Ctesias
4595 Posts
Jangbi so likeable and so gosu. Sad that Flash lost, but if he's got to lose to somebody, I prefer it being Jangbi (or Fantasy or Jaedong). Thanks for translating, Seeker. | ||
|
Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
| ||
|
namste
Finland2292 Posts
| ||
| ||
