A version of this article appeared in print on November 29, 2012, on page B5 of the New York edition with the headline: Video Gaming on the Pro Tour, for Glory but Little Gold.
When Sean Plott was 15, he and his older brother, Nick, begged their mother to fly them from Kansas to Los Angeles for a video game tournament.
For Cara LaForge, their single mother, who was struggling to start a new business, the expense was steep. Her sons passionately insisted they could win, so she conceded. But there was a catch: “If you don’t win, you’re going to pay me back,” she recalled.
They didn’t win.
Ms. LaForge didn’t make her sons pay her back, but in a way, they have. Eleven years later, she is the business manager at Sean Plott’s company Day[9]TV, which broadcasts daily videos online geared toward gamers. The two brothers are celebrity personalities in the world of StarCraft II, a popular strategic game. Sean Plott was featured on Forbes’s 30 under 30 list in 2011.
Video games have evolved from an eight-bit hobby to a $24 billion industry in 2011, according to the NPD Group, a research firm. As more people play games, more of them compete in structured competitive tournaments, complete with fans, sponsors and lucrative contracts. It’s a long and tough slog, as Ms. LaForge’s story suggests.
Wish the article was more focused on a particular interesting element in our scene rather than trying to cover it's entirety.
If I was someone who didn't know about the scene at all, none of this would make me particularly intrigued and hungry to read and learn more about eSports.
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misleading or incorrect information in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
I watched him play at NYC's Samsung center back in...I want to say '05 at some sort of a WCG qualifier (Some sort of regional thing...don't exactly remember the details).
Spoke to him briefly after his tournament (He beat Artosis, but ultimately lost to Nony). He was a major nerd back then (Still is, but just a really cool nerd now).
I then witnessed his explosive growth in the recent years. Pretty incredible story.
Edit:
On a somewhat unrelated side note - I remember Artosis used to number his hotkeys Ctrl+1234567890 for his command center. He did this keyboard swipe thing.
Day9 had a significant higher apm than Artosis and Nony. Back then that was the cool thing to just spam useless actions and switch screens 50 times per second. Oh wait I think it's still considered pretty cool nowadays..?
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
Ah, I see now. Thanks for clarifying lol... Still seems a little misleading at least
On November 29 2012 10:50 KH1031 wrote: I watched him play at NYC's Samsung center back in...I want to say '05 at some sort of a WCG qualifier (Some sort of regional thing...don't exactly remember the details).
Spoke to him briefly after his tournament (He beat Artosis, but ultimately lost to Nony). He was a major nerd back then (Still is, but just a really cool nerd now).
I then witnessed his explosive growth in the recent years. Pretty incredible story.
Edit:
On a somewhat unrelated side note - I remember Artosis used to number his hotkeys Ctrl+1234567890 for his command center. He did this keyboard swipe thing.
Day9 had a significant higher apm than Artosis and Nony. Back then that was the cool thing to just spam useless actions and switch screens 50 times per second. Oh wait I think it's still considered pretty cool nowadays..?
Okay. I am just blabbing on...
Actually bw required way more APM than sc2, it wasn't even spam then. I'd say 300 in sc2 is spamming though...
Ah this is a very broad brushstroke of the scene, but this is also a good primer article I would forward around for people to figure out what esports can be about.
I like this article. It isn't "HOLY SHITBALLS GUYZ ARE MAKING MILLIONS IN GAMEZ!!!!11!1!" but it also isn't "HOLY SHITBALLS GUYZ ARE WASTING THEIR LIVES IN GAMEZ!!!!11!1". Very nice piece.
It's a nice article, not condemning or over-hyping anything. Pleasure to see eSports framed as a growing industry and business, with some decent analogies to other minor sports.
On November 29 2012 11:55 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: I like this article. It isn't "HOLY SHITBALLS GUYZ ARE MAKING MILLIONS IN GAMEZ!!!!11!1!" but it also isn't "HOLY SHITBALLS GUYZ ARE WASTING THEIR LIVES IN GAMEZ!!!!11!1". Very nice piece.
Though they are only counting MLG, I do like this approach. Every other one was either very biased to the left or to the right about video games. Especially that peice on MKP from Time, which was absolutely terribad when they said he had video game addiction. I was like... really? No one says Peyton Siva has basketball addiction but he only did that and school for his young life when he was in a bad slum. This peice was MUCH much better, especially the balanced approach they took. All in all I think a lot of the people here are too critical of journalism that occurs within E-Sports because we are so biased due to how many negative peices have come out of journalism concerning E-sports.
On November 29 2012 10:55 Tatari wrote: Oh man... One can only imagine the faces of the Plott brothers when they lost ;____;
There's a youtube video of it floating around somewhere. Its pretty emotional to watch if you know the whole back story leading up to it that day9 spoke about in daily 100.
On November 29 2012 10:50 KH1031 wrote: I watched him play at NYC's Samsung center back in...I want to say '05 at some sort of a WCG qualifier (Some sort of regional thing...don't exactly remember the details).
Spoke to him briefly after his tournament (He beat Artosis, but ultimately lost to Nony). He was a major nerd back then (Still is, but just a really cool nerd now).
I then witnessed his explosive growth in the recent years. Pretty incredible story.
Edit:
On a somewhat unrelated side note - I remember Artosis used to number his hotkeys Ctrl+1234567890 for his command center. He did this keyboard swipe thing.
Day9 had a significant higher apm than Artosis and Nony. Back then that was the cool thing to just spam useless actions and switch screens 50 times per second. Oh wait I think it's still considered pretty cool nowadays..?
Okay. I am just blabbing on...
Actually bw required way more APM than sc2, it wasn't even spam then. I'd say 300 in sc2 is spamming though...
There are certainly times you need to spike considerably higher than 300 especially when certain things are happening in the game. Most of the time though if you're at 300 apm you're spamming somehow in sc2, but you definitely still need to be able to move that fast so why not keep the speed.
On November 29 2012 10:12 Gamegene wrote: Wish the article was more focused on a particular interesting element in our scene rather than trying to cover it's entirety.
If I was someone who didn't know about the scene at all, none of this would make me particularly intrigued and hungry to read and learn more about eSports.
Fo sho. Sports is so focused on the money you can't be surprised journalists look at e-sports the same way.
I'm actually surprisingly satisfied with this article. They obviously don't know the scene intimately but at least they got references to many people that know their shit. Good job to NYT.
So you're telling me that they could be called the LaForge brothers this whole time, and we were settling for "Plott thickens" puns?!
Shit, I could see how they wanted to keep ties with their dad, but there's some priorities!
Anyhoo, it's one of very few proper articles on e-sports, without the usual sensationalist angle, and actually explaining the parallels between competitive gaming and sports and hence - e-sports. I was getting sick and tired of authors acting as if calling competitive gaming e-sports was some kind of coup d'etat on work ethics of athletes, where in reality it's just the closest analogy.
They missed a few beats here and there (Stephano in relation to paying for college, Lone Star Clash in relation to University involvement etc), but overall a solid piece of actual journalism. Took a few to get here
Very nice article I like seeing this, seeing bill amend interviewed, seeing sc2 on swedish tv... we are growing guys and finally this wasn't an article full of lies with a heavy angled story.
On November 29 2012 16:39 Cor_Malek wrote: Wait, whoah, hey there! Stop the fucking press!
So you're telling me that they could be called the LaForge brothers this whole time, and we were settling for "Plott thickens" puns?!
Shit, I could see how they wanted to keep ties with their dad, but there's some priorities!
Anyhoo, it's one of very few proper articles on e-sports, without the usual sensationalist angle, and actually explaining the parallels between competitive gaming and sports and hence - e-sports. I was getting sick and tired of authors acting as if calling competitive gaming e-sports was some kind of coup d'etat on work ethics of athletes, where in reality it's just the closest analogy.
They missed a few beats here and there (Stephano in relation to paying for college, Lone Star Clash in relation to University involvement etc), but overall a solid piece of actual journalism. Took a few to get here
That's actually a pretty good article, in a newspaper that should reach a huge audience no less. It doesn't spread misinformation or ridicule gaming itself and it's well researched, which is usually already too much to ask for most mass media. I find the article a bit too pessimistic and too focused on money, but that's a matter of taste.
Nice simple clean and informative article without alot of tangents. Though it's more of a general esports article than day[9]. Because the high cost of living and relatively poor social security net, it's harder for people to devote to esports in US.
This is quite sad that the first picture you see is League of Legends, not Starcraft. I would personally liked the journalist to do more research with the picture :/
On November 29 2012 10:12 Gamegene wrote: Wish the article was more focused on a particular interesting element in our scene rather than trying to cover it's entirety.
If I was someone who didn't know about the scene at all, none of this would make me particularly intrigued and hungry to read and learn more about eSports.
For once there is no mention that people die 'cause they play too much I think we should be thankful
On November 29 2012 23:11 IAttackYou wrote: This is quite sad that the first picture you see is League of Legends, not Starcraft. I would personally liked the journalist to do more research with the picture :/
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
Being posted in the New York Times is a pretty big deal. I think they did a good job overall of giving a realistic perspective of the scene (certainly better than most other articles on e-sports). There's a saying that all publicity is good publicity, but if that's the case, then I'd consider this great publicity
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
This.
And we need to figure out how to keep the good players good for a long period of time. Of course there will always be some new prodigy comming in doing an upset or establish themselves as the top. But this shouldn't be something that happens every six months. Ofcourse all players won't be able to play into their late 30's but the really good consistent ones should still hold up. Might be a motivational problem, might be something else. But for esports to keep growing we can't have 25 as the year you retire...
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
Biggest sport in the world, football, can actually be enjoyed for free as well.
Of course you also got the option to pay for it, so it's pretty similar to esports right now.
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
Biggest sport in the world, football, can actually be enjoyed for free as well.
Of course you also got the option to pay for it, so it's pretty similar to esports right now.
I don't see the parallel. Football (EU) is huge because of the vast sums of money being spent on it by its global fans. It has reached a maturity where it has become such a massive industry, that yes, sometimes you can watch it for free. However, most sports bars and home users spend extra money for the premium channels. If football stadiums weren't playing to huge crowds, with massive money in merchandising and advertising, you couldn't watch it for free.
On November 29 2012 23:20 Technique wrote: Why is it again about some guy making videos for noobies instead of actual pro gamers?
What? Day9 and Tasteless were great players before they even considered commentating. (But you perhaps don't consider brood war an esport..?)
Day9 placed top 16 (he lost to XellOs) in the WCG back in 2004, and he has made it to three WCG USA finals, of which he won one. He also won the Pan-american Championship in 2007.
His daily show (which by the way is awesome) began only a few years ago.
On November 29 2012 23:20 Technique wrote: Why is it again about some guy making videos for noobies instead of actual pro gamers?
What? Day9 and Tasteless were great players before they even considered commentating. (But you perhaps don't consider brood war an esport..?)
Day9 placed top 16 (he lost to XellOs) in the WCG back in 2004, and he has made it to three WCG USA finals, of which he won one. He also won the Pan-american Championship in 2007.
His daily show (which by the way is awesome) began only a few years ago.
He also made a charming episode of the very same daily about himself, his brother and their careers. It's absolutely fascinating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJztfsXKcPQ
Wasn't the NA scene of bw even more behind than their sc2 scene? Seems to me like they where good amateurs.
Either way, players need to get the attention and should be asked for quotes instead of always asking these so called ''personalities''.
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
Biggest sport in the world, football, can actually be enjoyed for free as well.
Of course you also got the option to pay for it, so it's pretty similar to esports right now.
I don't see the parallel. Football (EU) is huge because of the vast sums of money being spent on it by its global fans. It has reached a maturity where it has become such a massive industry, that yes, sometimes you can watch it for free. However, most sports bars and home users spend extra money for the premium channels. If football stadiums weren't playing to huge crowds, with massive money in merchandising and advertising, you couldn't watch it for free.
Why did you add EU behind football? There is no need for it... It's a worldwide sport and the only sport that is played with the feet and a ball as far as i know.
Either way, i only mentioned that because he somehow acts esports can't work if not everyone is paying for it. While the ones who do want to pay already do anyway, for the hd quality... sounds like a good system to me.
I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL.
You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
Interesting article, however it's missing very important information. No mention of Korean eSports? The guys have been doing professional TV shows and insanely popular events for more than a decade. They built the thing, and they developed it. They have players that are disgustingly rich. By reading this article, you'd think that eSports is a recent small-scale NA-only phenomenon. As a lambda reader, I cannot get the full picture and that's very unfortunate.
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
I wasn't making it an NA vs EU thing, I was pointing out that I didn't appreciate the ignorant arrogance of his post to claim that a 10billion dollar industry was somehow wrong in naming their product. Seems silly.
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
I wasn't making it an NA vs EU thing, I was pointing out that I didn't appreciate the ignorant arrogance of his post to claim that a 10billion dollar industry was somehow wrong in naming their product. Seems silly.
I assume DanLee is trolling.
So why is it called after the most popular sport in the world?
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
I wasn't making it an NA vs EU thing, I was pointing out that I didn't appreciate the ignorant arrogance of his post to claim that a 10billion dollar industry was somehow wrong in naming their product. Seems silly.
I assume DanLee is trolling.
So why is it called after the most popular sport in the world?
Because we are American and we don't give a shit. Capiche?
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
I wasn't making it an NA vs EU thing, I was pointing out that I didn't appreciate the ignorant arrogance of his post to claim that a 10billion dollar industry was somehow wrong in naming their product. Seems silly.
I assume DanLee is trolling.
So why is it called after the most popular sport in the world?
Thread derailed. Let's take the topic back to paying money for eSports stuff.
Oh well, it's nice to know that big journalism publishers don't just publish biased articles about SC2, and instead they actually post fairly accurate pieces of work.
I want one article to be published on a news site without some sort of misinformation in it lol...
Interesting article otherwise, I actually thought the number of people who can play sc2 for a living in the USwould have been lower than they said lol...
The $25,000 is referring to MLG. And their number isn't about just sc2. Sundance says about 40 people can make a living off playing video games, not just sc2.
As long as the community feels entitled to free-everything and complains about PPV and such, it will remain this way.
The reason mainstream sports are so rich is because of the immense amount of money invested by fans, and the fact that the NFL is tax-exempt.
I move for the MLG and IPL to push for tax-exempt status, instantly boosting profitability by 25-35%. Here's what the IRS says about tax-exempt leagues:
"A business league is an association of persons having some common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote such common interest and not to engage in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit. Trade associations and professional associations are business leagues. To be exempt, a business league's activities must be devoted to improving business conditions of one or more lines of business as distinguished from performing particular services for individual persons. No part of a business league's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only enough income to be self-sustaining). The term line of business generally refers either to an entire industry or to all components of an industry within a geographic area. It does not include a group composed of businesses that market a particular brand within an industry." (Huffingtonpost.com, "Why does the National Football League Deserve Tax-Exempt Status")
Thus, classifying eSports leagues as promoting common interest and improving business conditions for one or more lines of business within the industry would make them tax-exempt. This also couldn't be closer to the truth.
I have absolutely no problem supporting the industry that has given me so much entertainment- I buy every MLG, I have MLG, IPL and GSL premium subscriptions, and I'm typing this on my Razer mechanical keyboard and clicking my Razer mechanical mouse on my Team Liquid mousepad.
Instead of a community outcry when MLG is ten *whole* dollars, perhaps we should just buy tickets like normal people and come together as an industry. Otherwise, we may eventually have to watch it fade away.
Advertising and sponsors bring ten fold the money that the actual consumers bring. The more consumers the more appealing the medium is in the eyes of the advertisers. True consumers bring in their share through purchase of apparel and memorabilia but ticket prizes count really only a marginal amount of the total sum raized in any such event/business.
On November 29 2012 10:50 KH1031 wrote: On a somewhat unrelated side note - I remember Artosis used to number his hotkeys Ctrl+1234567890 for his command center. He did this keyboard swipe thing.
He still does this. You can hear it whenever he streams his ladder games on Twitch (which he hasn't done for a while, admittedly...)
I liked this article. It was realistic about the current position of eSports without being dismissive or condescending.
On November 30 2012 02:01 Crownlol wrote: I added the EU because my name is labeled USA, and my first post was about NFL football (US). There is absolutely no reason to get all defensive about the US "mislabeling" their sport, when the NFL brings in twice the revenue of the EPL. You can act all snooty if you want by saying American Football "isn't football", but from a revenue standpoint, you need to combine the top 5 European leagues' revenues to match the NFL.
I'm not starting an American Football vs European Football debate here (I'm an equal fan of both actually, my stepfather is Irish and my mom is American), but you can't simply fight the nomenclature because it rubs you wrong. Deal with it.
Let's keep this on eSports and not derail the thread.
What does revenue have to do with anything? Besides i really don't think you want to act like American rugby brings in more revenue than football do you? :D
Also i still don't get why you try to make this a EU vs NA thing.... Football is worldwide...
I wasn't making it an NA vs EU thing, I was pointing out that I didn't appreciate the ignorant arrogance of his post to claim that a 10billion dollar industry was somehow wrong in naming their product. Seems silly.
On November 30 2012 01:43 Technique wrote: Wasn't the NA scene of bw even more behind than their sc2 scene? Seems to me like they where good amateurs.
Either way, players need to get the attention and should be asked for quotes instead of always asking these so called ''personalities''.
You could argue a few of the popular casters are a bit overhyped, but seriously. I'm not a big fan of Day9, but I have to say this; he is legit. He's basically played Starcraft (both the real game and the sequel) seriously since forever. If you stopped whining and actually listened to what he is saying during his (non-newbie-tuesday) shows, you would realise how well he knows the game and the scene.
But, yes, let's interview Korean 16-year-olds that started with starcraft 2 a few months ago and haven't seen anything of the business other than their current team and that tournament they did well in. That would probably be interesting for a non-interested American audience as well.
On November 30 2012 01:43 Technique wrote: Wasn't the NA scene of bw even more behind than their sc2 scene? Seems to me like they where good amateurs.
Either way, players need to get the attention and should be asked for quotes instead of always asking these so called ''personalities''.
You could argue a few of the popular casters are a bit overhyped, but seriously. I'm not a big fan of Day9, but I have to say this; he is legit. He's basically played Starcraft (both the real game and the sequel) seriously since forever. If you stopped whining and actually listened to what he is saying during his (non-newbie-tuesday) shows, you would realise how well he knows the game and the scene.
But, yes, let's interview Korean 16-year-olds that started with starcraft 2 a few months ago and haven't seen anything of the business other than their current team and that tournament they did well in. That would probably be interesting for a non-interested American audience as well.
About 2 years ago (while I was master back then I was absolutely awfull) I kinda realized how newb-oriented his comments were. It seemed to me that he hadn't realized that most players by then (roughly 4 months after release) had finally figured out most of the basic RTS elements, and for non-newb players his comments are of little use. I'd say my skill level was probably close to gold-players of today or so, so unless he has improved his commentary by a lot, I think most gold-leaguers or above will be much better of playing the actual game rather than his commentaries if they want to improve.
On November 30 2012 07:14 Hider wrote: I think most gold-leaguers or above will be much better of playing the actual game rather than his commentaries if they want to improve.
Actually anyone will improve much faster by actually playing instead of watching anything.
On November 30 2012 01:43 Technique wrote: Wasn't the NA scene of bw even more behind than their sc2 scene? Seems to me like they where good amateurs.
Either way, players need to get the attention and should be asked for quotes instead of always asking these so called ''personalities''.
You could argue a few of the popular casters are a bit overhyped, but seriously. I'm not a big fan of Day9, but I have to say this; he is legit. He's basically played Starcraft (both the real game and the sequel) seriously since forever. If you stopped whining and actually listened to what he is saying during his (non-newbie-tuesday) shows, you would realise how well he knows the game and the scene.
But, yes, let's interview Korean 16-year-olds that started with starcraft 2 a few months ago and haven't seen anything of the business other than their current team and that tournament they did well in. That would probably be interesting for a non-interested American audience as well.
Any actual player would be better...
Could ask someone like Idra or WhiteRa for quotes if you don't want to ask Koreans (which is silly tbh).
And no i won't listen to day[9], he's very fake in his whole demeanor. I skip any event he casts tbh... and the moaning... omg...
I really liked this article. It's hardly surprising it focussed on the North American scene (since that's almost entirely the demographic of people who buy the NYTimes) and the way they spoke about it as an emerging sport/business was superior to most other mainstream coverage of eSports (Credit has to go to Sky news for their balanced reporting on Team Dignitas).
More articles like this could be really great for the sport and the scene as a whole.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8H3Ak.jpg)
