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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 22 2012 06:49 Jimbo77 wrote: Take a look on that. Thumbs down 34% - it's approximate amount of zergs  Just showing that you didn't read the thread at all. A lot of Protoss and Terran players are disagreeing with the change, they think that the Fungal should be nerfed, but that the change isn't the right one. I didn't vote, really want to see what will happen with this changes.  | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 22 2012 06:51 monkybone wrote: And all the no thumbs are obviously Protosses. i play terran and random at masters, i thumbed it down reason being i dont really think this is the appropriate way to go about changing this ability i feel that they did not think of the implications of granting all psionic units invulnerability to fungal and they only thought of Ghost and High templar in this case | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
please blizzard we're not asking you to make Terran imbalanced. the Raven's role as a unit is FINE. it just needs to be given small buffs to make it easier to use. small changes like 25 less gas on the cost, acceleration and speed buffs etc. i don't want TvT to devolve into raven turtle fests like HOTS's mine turtle fests ~_~ | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:13 Gamegene wrote: this is just going to make TvT turn retarded. please blizzard we're not asking you to make Terran imbalanced. the Raven's role as a unit is FINE. it just needs to be given small buffs to make it easier to use. small changes like 25 less gas on the cost, acceleration and speed buffs etc. i don't want TvT to devolve into raven turtle fests like HOTS's mine turtle fests ~_~ How is HSM anything like a widow mine? And how does raven usage lead to more turtling than tank usage? | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:04 c0sm0naut wrote: i play terran and random at masters, i thumbed it down reason being i dont really think this is the appropriate way to go about changing this ability i feel that they did not think of the implications of granting all psionic units invulnerability to fungal and they only thought of Ghost and High templar in this case They are not idiots. They considered that and considered the fact that perhaps players would find a way to deal with the new problems it might bring up. Any pro players comment on these changes? | ||
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testthewest
Germany274 Posts
On November 22 2012 05:38 DemonCow wrote: It's a flash of stupidity actually. 3rd paragraph makes sense... but please do tell what is this amazing strat that only you know that is no bl/infestor that can hang (with 50%ish win rate) late game with protoss death balls? There was a time before that. Zergs were mass expanding and using Mutas to pin the protoss to his base. Of course, if simply building a "I-win" combo is possible, then it will be executed. As a mainly e-sports viewer, I would love the metagame in PvZ to be shaken up. I don't believe protoss will win so much more if that change goes live, instead zerg will do more in mid-game, and the metagame will evolve. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10131 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:17 Treehead wrote: How is HSM anything like a widow mine? And how does raven usage lead to more turtling than tank usage? Tanks are positional play. | ||
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remember87
Sweden144 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:17 Treehead wrote: How is HSM anything like a widow mine? And how does raven usage lead to more turtling than tank usage? They're two different things in the game, but they both accomplish the same purpose: they make aggression useless. I'm not going to want to do a combat shield move out on the map if there's the threat of a mine or a seeker missile instantly evaporating my army if I'm not looking. It also renders a lot of midgame pushes useless because the seeker missile is just going to evaporate marines easily or even better just force the army not to attack as it backs up from the ravens. TvT is dynamic and interesting enough. Saying that it's "turtling with tanks blah blah blah" shows that you really don't know much about the match up past it's stereotypes. Blizzard seems intent on ruining medivac, marine, and banshee openings with their changes ~_~ and forcing Terrans to just ball up and either mass up factory units or starport units. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
It also leads to skyterran which is arguably the coolest late game composition in the game as it isn't an instant I-win button and it requires a lot of attention to get right. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:26 Qikz wrote: What are peoples problems with mech vs mech TvT? It's arguably the most exciting matchup in the game. Every small move, every unsiege and every mine placement (in HoTS) now is super important. Every small bit of land you can cover with minimal siege tanks due to it being mech vs mech is CRITICAL. One wrong move and you lose access to a base and 2 gas. It's so tense. It also leads to skyterran which is arguably the coolest late game composition in the game as it isn't an instant I-win button and it requires a lot of attention to get right. Because it tends to result in 90 minute games. It's boring for 99% of the matchup and then interesting when someone fucks up. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:26 Qikz wrote: What are peoples problems with mech vs mech TvT? It's arguably the most exciting matchup in the game. Every small move, every unsiege and every mine placement (in HoTS) now is super important. Every small bit of land you can cover with minimal siege tanks due to it being mech vs mech is CRITICAL. One wrong move and you lose access to a base and 2 gas. It's so tense. It also leads to skyterran which is arguably the coolest late game composition in the game as it isn't an instant I-win button and it requires a lot of attention to get right. no one has a problem with mech vs mech. what I personally have a problem with is Blizzard forcing us to do one or the other. the match up is no longer interesting when you're forced to ONLY go one composition and not do the style that you like. I think TvT in WoL is just FINE the way it is. but the way they're changing the game, by the time HOTS comes out we're ONLY going to do reaper openings, we're ONLY going to litter our bases with mines to prevent banshees or other harassment builds, we're ONLY going to try and get as many ravens early on as possible to win the air battle and then kill the other opponent's siege tanks. it's not fun when we don't have viable choices. i WANT raven changes yes! but i don't want the unit's role in the game to change. the raven has a fun role as a pseudo-defiler in the early viking-banshee skirmishes with the PDD. but the problem is that 200 gas is very taxing on a player's resource balancing. i want the role to remain the same, but the cost and ease of use to be less taxing on the player who decides to spend the starport production time on the spell caster instead of the more dynamic units. | ||
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tryq
Germany24 Posts
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MazEPro
Canada22 Posts
Although the change proposed has some great ideas, this buff will cause zerg much trouble. Immoral sentry is a very strong push versus zerg. I beleive that zerg players need to keep experimenting on how to more effectively stop this strong aggressive move. However, if sentries can no longer be fungaled, what is stopping protosses from going sentry immoral further into the game? Fungal growth, was the unit that shut down this composition. This is why tosses had to eventually switch in to colossus. But if infester no longer aids in the way it is used to, then zergs might have big problems with more delayed sentry immortal timings. I do like how blizzard is trying things out. This is the point for a public test. I just wanted to say, the idea behind this infester patch. Great idea. High templars and Ghosts will be used a lot more adding more strategies to take down late game zerg. But adding warp prisms and sentires, might be too much for zerg to handle without fungal growth. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:33 tryq wrote: Fungal not affecting psyonic units would bne more than gamebreaking, seriously a bad idea from my point of view I'm not seeing why. It'd allow Feedback to actually counter infestors and warp prisms would finally be able to actually do something. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:31 Gamegene wrote: no one has a problem with mech vs mech. what I personally have a problem with is Blizzard forcing us to do one or the other. the match up is no longer interesting when you're forced to ONLY go one composition and not do the style that you like. I think TvT in WoL is just FINE the way it is. but the way they're changing the game, by the time HOTS comes out we're ONLY going to do reaper openings, we're ONLY going to litter our bases with mines to prevent banshees or other harassment builds, we're ONLY going to try and get as many ravens early on as possible to win the air battle and then kill the other opponent's siege tanks. it's not fun when we don't have viable choices. i WANT raven changes yes! but i don't want the unit's role in the game to change. the raven has a fun role as a pseudo-defiler in the early viking-banshee skirmishes with the PDD. but the problem is that 200 gas is very taxing on a player's resource balancing. i want the role to remain the same, but the cost and ease of use to be less taxing on the player who decides to spend the starport production time on the spell caster instead of the more dynamic units. I want changes to the existing units to be like the Battle Hellion. It doesn't all of a sudden change how the unit is used. it's role is still largely the same: you want to tank for the more expensive big hitters. But now it's just a little bit easier to do, and you get some more choices with the unit. do i want these guys in the very slow but meaty hellbat mode? do i want them in the standard hellion mode so i can have the hellions move quickly to chase retreating armies? these are the kind of choices that make the game fun and interesting. with the raven change, no one is going to want to just use a PDD when they can have an extremely powerful splash attack very early (relative) in the game. | ||
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tryq
Germany24 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:34 Qikz wrote: I'm not seeing why. It'd allow Feedback to actually counter infestors and warp prisms would finally be able to actually do something. Tell me a counter to FF for example, u can actually feedback infestors if you pay attention to it. I just think it is way to much to say "ok fungal wont work with this and this unit..." Maybe you can say, that psyonic units won't be stunned any longer or so. It was just my first thought | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:20 testthewest wrote: There was a time before that. Zergs were mass expanding and using Mutas to pin the protoss to his base. Of course, if simply building a "I-win" combo is possible, then it will be executed. Not really... Zergs were building mutaballs and avoided combat. most games ended in basetrades - imo quite more boring than turtleball play. In turtleball play, there is at least one combat. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:39 tryq wrote: Tell me a counter to FF for example, u can actually feedback infestors if you pay attention to it. I just think it is way to much to say "ok fungal wont work with this and this unit..." Maybe you can say, that psyonic units won't be stunned any longer or so. It was just my first thought Counter to forcefield you say? When there's a lot of infestors, which is when the fungal issue creeps in, when on earth are forcefields ever an issue? | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden531 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:13 Gamegene wrote: this is just going to make TvT turn retarded. please blizzard we're not asking you to make Terran imbalanced. the Raven's role as a unit is FINE. it just needs to be given small buffs to make it easier to use. small changes like 25 less gas on the cost, acceleration and speed buffs etc. i don't want TvT to devolve into raven turtle fests like HOTS's mine turtle fests ~_~ Wait, so just because there is no uppgrade for 150/150~ for HSM people will be camping and massing them up? Say hello to bronze league from me will you? | ||
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