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monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely in HotS. |
On November 18 2012 17:57 Hall0wed wrote:
Remove neural? What possibly makes them think that neural is the problem here? Yes it can change games but infested terrans and fungals are what is currently making many zerg games quite uninteresting and annoying to watch.
The point isnt wether it is "powerful" or "a problem" but rather if it is "fun" and "well designed". Compare it with the mind control spell from BW and you will see that that one was on a unit which had no other real offensive powers (Feedback is limited in its targets and Maelstrom is a crowd control spell only without any damage) ... not even an attack itself. Thus it wouldnt really make sense to build more than one or maybe two of them. Compare it with the number of Infestors and then see how much of an impact it has on a battle when 3-4 Thors, Siege Tanks, Colossi or even a Mothership switch sides. You cant come to any other conclusion that the spell is just as terrible in design as the rest of them or even Forcefield and Vortex.
Removing it is a good idea and my solution to fixing the Infestor spells requires that it gets replaced by the Defiler's Consume ability while increasing the energy cost for Fungal to 125 and Infested Terran to 50 (or even more). Consume should give energy equal to the mineral cost of a unit reduced by the amount of injury [a Roach at 50% health gives 38 energy].
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On November 18 2012 18:41 Creager wrote:Guys, I have a baller idea for changing infested terrans: Just change it like it was with the reaver back in BW, means Infestor gets 5 unit slots and has to "build" infested terrans over time for maybe 25 mins each. That would mean they would be way more expensive (leaving Z with a much harder tech investment choice and him not being able to stockpile that much minerals when he gets those out on the field) each single infestor couldn't throw that much eggs at once. Good idea? 
Sounds cool, but I assume that the Infested Terran stats need to be tweaked in some way to accommodate this change, possibly buffed since this is otherwise a pretty big nerf to what we currently have.
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dude that new interview from gamespot is SICK, such good information
Question about the pathfinding:
It makes sense what he's saying about how nothing much is changed, but won't there be situations where you can intentinoally just a-click far once (like to engage an enemy defense), so that your forces stay more split up? But given the rest of his answer, I guess he feels that would make things too easy. Meh, I think it should be slightly easier to keep them apart, i feel they converge wayy too fast after splitting, but o well 
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Important notes from the interview:
-Balance change in a map next week on arcade
-Psionic units being immune to Fungal to promote the use of HT and Ghost
-Fungal Growth as a projectile to allow missing the hit similar to EMP. This way Mutas, Phoenix etc. can possibly turn around and dodge the fungal. The goal seems to be create an uncertainty around the spell. For the moment it is a 100% hit. It will also help increase the skill level required to use FG.
-There is no problem with race distribution in tournaments. DB says they do not look at a single tournament but look a the bigger picture. There is no major imbalance.
-Certain strategies seem to be too strong in the game at the moment. We're looking into fixing them.
-Tempest will change how PvP is played. Whoever builds too many(8+) Colossi will be in trouble vs. someone who has tempests
-They are doing very well with Protoss. Happy with MS core. Frees up Protoss to choose between many paths/builds. Tempests are doing quite well. Happy with their progress in PvP and PvZ; especially vs BL's.
-Swarm Host and Viper are also doing well for Zerg. DB is a bit nervous about Ultralisk burrow charge. It might be destabilizing. It may be nerfed.
-Hellbat needs a buff. To be discussed next week.
-Conflicting messages for Widow Mine. Some say it is OP and some say it is useless. It may be too strong for someone who has never come across it before but it is quite easy to dodge once players are familiar with it. Thus, it has to be balanced in a way that it is not OP or underpowered.
-TvP mech not working at all so far. It is a goal for DB coming up.
-Raven and seeker missile investments are quite big. Very hard to get the tech in a timely fashion. There are opportunities to tweak Raven and seeker missle.
-There seems to be no problem with clustering. Most pros/players want units to be clustered. Having clustering by default was the choice for DB. Players should split up their units if they want to engage that way. Marines/Marauders fighting zealots want to be clustered but they obviously have to split up vs. banelings.
-It is still the beta and they are willing to have some crazy changes.
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On November 18 2012 18:41 Creager wrote:Guys, I have a baller idea for changing infested terrans: Just change it like it was with the reaver back in BW, means Infestor gets 5 unit slots and has to "build" infested terrans over time for maybe 25 mins each. That would mean they would be way more expensive (leaving Z with a much harder tech investment choice and him not being able to stockpile that much minerals when he gets those out on the field) each single infestor couldn't throw that much eggs at once. Good idea?
Doesnt change one bit, because engagements only happen every now and then and you have enough time to get the full amount of charges for every one of them. If any this would make the Infestor easier to manage, because with a 200 energy Infestor you could spam out those 5 eggs and still have enough for a Fungal ...
The problem with the Infestor powers only arises if you have TONS of them (20+) so regenerating energy is done at an awesome rate. If you only have 3-4 Infestors one Fungal is a big investment, but as the Infestor count rises that investment grows less and less. Its again a "critical numbers thing".
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I think Warp Prisms has to be fungal-able or they have to reduce the number of warpins able from a warp prism. They are going to be way too strong otherwise. They are already used a lot now and if they are not fungal-able they will have 0 counters. And 20 zealot warpins are really good.
Otherwise I like the changes.
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I really just want someone to straight up put the question to Browder or Kim:
"Is having Zerg players mass 20+ Infestors every single game the direction you want StarCraft 2 to take?"
Just put it to them plain and try to get a straight answer, because these Infestor strategies are just so boring and combining them with mass Swarm Hosts or Brood Lords just makes it worse.
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if ghosts are unfungable, that would really solve a lot of issues. Really sounds good, and may encourage for zergs to go mutabling in zvt or zvp
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Updated the OP with this interview. it is more detailed than the first one.
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On November 18 2012 19:18 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
I really just want someone to straight up put the question to Browder or Kim:
"Is having Zerg players mass 20+ Infestors every single game the direction you want StarCraft 2 to take?"
Just put it to them plain and try to get a straight answer, because these Infestor strategies are just so boring and combining them with mass Swarm Hosts or Brood Lords just makes it worse.
They pretty much said its not fine, just not with the exact words.
They think that the overall balance is ok, just not the way it is balanced. They dont want the game to be balanced around some overpowered strats, aka infestor BL, sentrie immortal all-in, mass collosus. They will work on this.
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There is no fucking way fungal not working on psionic units can pass. No fungal on sentries is a massive deal, it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore. It forces a single techpath everygame less you want to die to that single allin.
It doesn't even address the real fungal problems, fungalling vikings and the protoss ball lategame. It's a big midgame nerf when the problems is the lategame. If they do this they seriously have zero clue.
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On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote:
There is no fucking way fungal not working on psionic units can pass.
Sure it can.
On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote:
it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore.
Infesters don't come out at 10 minutes. This is completely separate from the immortal sentry allin dynamic.
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Russian Federation216 Posts
On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore
Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late
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On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late
Suppy defended Parting immo sentry all ins with infestor lings.
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On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late
You can definitely hold until they come with lings and spine, I know I'm not a pro so my personal experience isn't really revelant, but I hold immo sentry allins from mid-high masters like this. It also is very important against prehive timings.
And now I see they consider removing neural altogether. They seriously don't have a clue...
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On November 18 2012 19:53 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late Suppy defended Parting immo sentry all ins with infestor lings.
if it turns out to be a problem the solution is simple: removing psionic tag from sentries. its not like that effects anything else.
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On November 18 2012 19:55 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:53 Insoleet wrote:On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late Suppy defended Parting immo sentry all ins with infestor lings. if it turns out to be a problem the solution is simple: removing psionic tag from sentries. its not like that effects anything else.
I am so bad at thinking outside the box, that everytime I hear it solution like this it sounds like pure genious.
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On November 18 2012 19:55 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:53 Insoleet wrote:On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late Suppy defended Parting immo sentry all ins with infestor lings. if it turns out to be a problem the solution is simple: removing psionic tag from sentries. its not like that effects anything else.
In my sudden attack of panic I didn't even think about that.. Yes that would be better. But it still doesn't really address the issue that fungal is just too punishing once it lands. They are taking the problem the wrong way imo, creating even more hardcounters/doesn't counter at all instead of more dynamic and versatile units.
Even the projectile idea is bad, if it lands it's super powerfull and does huge damage, roots and all that, if it doesn't nothing at all happens and the zerg is in deep trouble.
The slow% idea with instant or near-instant cast was such a great idea, the % is easy to tweak, it implies that fungal landing doesn't mean your units are now impossible to micro and will die.
Also why would ever remove neural if the only problem it poses is the mothership, and they plan on removing vortex down the road.
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On November 18 2012 19:59 Deckkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 19:55 DaveVAH wrote:On November 18 2012 19:53 Insoleet wrote:On November 18 2012 19:47 pprrii wrote:On November 18 2012 19:35 NeonFox wrote: it makes it so that sentry immortal cannot be defended with infestors anymore Its impossible to defend sentry immortal with infestors right now. They are just too late Suppy defended Parting immo sentry all ins with infestor lings. if it turns out to be a problem the solution is simple: removing psionic tag from sentries. its not like that effects anything else. I am so bad at thinking outside the box, that everytime I hear it solution like this it sounds like pure genious.
Removing the psionic tag from the Warp Prism also will make sure that Protoss drops can be dealt with in the same way as Terran drops.
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EPT
