On November 07 2012 15:08 Kaitokid wrote: Attero was even kind of successful for how good he was to be honest.. there are way more especially European players who get almost 0 recognition while being really good.
@Lalush
While I like Sortof and Starnan myself you can't be serious... Sase and Thorzain are better than them, Sortof is probably really close though. They are both underrated and Starnan didn't even get featured on TL's streamer list after his amazing Dreamhack performance.
kind of how I feel, Attero was alot more successful, especially in the aspect of people atleast knowing he existed. Ive been so far down and out lately, Still cant even find stable practice partners for this game lol...Its been forever since I was at the top of my game and winning smaller online cups, atleast I still take local lans easily. But I get no where fast that way =/ I still honestly dont know where I find the motivation to keep practicing around 8 hours a day and staying focused through all the bs I go through..
You have to be pro-active in your approach. Get out there and make yourself known, don't wait for you to be discovered.
On November 07 2012 15:08 Kaitokid wrote: Attero was even kind of successful for how good he was to be honest.. there are way more especially European players who get almost 0 recognition while being really good.
@Lalush
While I like Sortof and Starnan myself you can't be serious... Sase and Thorzain are better than them, Sortof is probably really close though. They are both underrated and Starnan didn't even get featured on TL's streamer list after his amazing Dreamhack performance.
kind of how I feel, Attero was alot more successful, especially in the aspect of people atleast knowing he existed. Ive been so far down and out lately, Still cant even find stable practice partners for this game lol...Its been forever since I was at the top of my game and winning smaller online cups, atleast I still take local lans easily. But I get no where fast that way =/ I still honestly dont know where I find the motivation to keep practicing around 8 hours a day and staying focused through all the bs I go through..
You have to be pro-active in your approach. Get out there and make yourself known, don't wait for you to be discovered.
Why do you think I asked how you noticed people in other threads? etc... Ive been asking questions similar to that for months. Some answers help, some dont... People I beat or former teammates get on teams, its like a never ending nightmare. Im just a guy with no connections with way to much time on his hands that dedicates himself to something, that will be worthless no matter how much I win, Unless I win it all in a premier event.
In all seriousness though it is unfortunate and sad to hear that players in the scene like attero are that hardworking and still don't have much of a following, but really its just the nature of the beast. This is a competitive game and the point is to win..... win games-win tournaments, and not only just win but win against the best the scene has to offer (most wont consider it a "legit" win otherwise).
People like winners, and for the most part people want to watch the best of the best compete (at least I do). If I have an opportunity to watch GSL or MLG with the top Koreans vs a regional competition I will easily choose the former. Even if you try to establish a regional based league you will most likely be competing with those leagues that don't discriminate based on location. In my opinion while the idea has good intent it appears to be more of a crutch for foreigners who simply can't stand up to the tide of talent / dedication / whatever intangibles there are that make Koreans perform better.
Unless players like those you mentioned can close that gap with the Koreans then it will continue to be this way, and its only getting harder with the influx of BW pros in the scene. Just look at the latest MLG results, plenty of top NA pros had a chance to go toe to toe with Koreans and they just couldn't do it. It may seem harsh and unfair but unless at some point in your career you are placing well in these competitions you just won't be considered that relevant.
I completely agree.I don't want to sound xenophobic or anything but no one wants to see another korean winning a tournament. They travel around ''stealing'' all the money from the foreign scene. Are they the best? Yes. Is it good for the scene? Absolutely not.
With all it's faults, i think the german EPS and the suxcess of Take.tv is a sign that local/regional leagues work just fine, at least for countries with a big enough viewership. At least the EPS can support a dozen of pros in the way that local brands like Alternate and XMG get enought marketing value out of it to make it worth supporting their team. And if they pay out their pricemoney at some point it also goes a long way to support the pros, but that's another story.
I completely agree with this, there should be way more diversity in the tournaments/player pools, to make it more interesting for viewers.
The fact that you can cheer for a local/underdog is super rewarding even if he does not do well. The problem in my opinion is that the underdogs in the SC2 scene has(like you say) no real achievements or success stories. A lot of the time you will be cheering for a local team/player(in other sports i mean) and when that team/player makes to the big league you ecstatic even if they are beaten the first round.
This is not solved i think by the current tournament setup. The issue as i see it is that every tournament is 'premiere' or try to be at least. And we (the viewers) judge the legitimacy of this claim by the player pool. A lot of tournaments i feel have a great opportunity to create more of a minor->major>premiere division feel. For example for NASL and IGNPL -could make the qualifiers a meaningful and pristine tourney in itself. Make a point of who won a qualifier, and keep it local.
I for sure would watch more local/regional tourneys if the tourneys just would call it what it is. But right now when every tournament and their grandma' is the "premiere tournament of the world" - of course i am gonna watch the one with the best players(koreans).
But if tournaments made it a story, made their player pool important due to other things, i would watch for sure. imagine tourneys for the best player, team, European, all-stars, grand-slammers ect. all based on region. it would create heroes for the bigger tourneys, even if the Koreans are still better, they are at least competing agains good stories of regional/local achievements and not just a NA random dude.
On November 07 2012 09:48 LaLuSh wrote: I am really against these invite type of special events where people are invited based on name recognition. The period where I felt I was breaking out and most motivated, where i thought i was top2 top3 foreign zerg before stephano and nerchio broke out, I'd always be frustrated by the announcement of yet another special invite event...
Had to wait a half year between every dreamhack to truly get a chance to make a name for yourself. With truly, I mean getting invited by default to these lone star clash, red bull, asus rog invite, dreamhack invite, gsl world vs korea, type of events; and building up enough clout to be sent overseas. I flubbed out at dreamhack after having a real strong dominating spring 2011. Since then, enrolled in univ and slowly fading out, with the occasional comeback binges.
edit: if there was a millenium house, or korean partnership back then i would have jumped at the opportunity. but basically only TL, perhaps EG, with those connections then.
Yes, invitationals are a finicky thing. Pleasing three audiences (players, spectators, investors/sponsors). Sorry to hear about your eventual fading of the game ):
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
Great to see this Torte, your writing is incredibly interesting and passionate in itself
Attero's example is a sad one, I've heard it said so often both by people within the SC community and outside it that success is 'just turning up' and consistency is key, when in fact there is a good deal more, be it luck or whatever, that contributes.
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
There is absolutely no money in that though and going back to your previous response where you quoted me.
It's incredibly hard to sell. We already have regional qualifiers with the WCS, WCG, TL, MLG, IEM, etc. I've been paying very close attention to all the qualifiers and the numbers for most are very poor. WCS did well because a lot of those qualifiers were outsourced and were part of dual events.
*
Time and time the latter proves to be true. To be a real pro. It's a full-time struggle to stay on top and there are very few players who have the actual talent to pull off such feats. To do that in a North American market? They find themselves right up against the wall from the start.
At least China is keeping up in LoL and we've seen what can happen in the WC3 scene.
I don't think high level play is boring either. I can understand where your coming from when you say Regionals can be fairy competitive and entertaining as well because I do watch them and they're far more balanced because the players are in and around the same level thus the games are going to competitive and it won't just be a squash.
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
There is absolutely no money in that though and going back to your previous response where you quoted me.
It's incredibly hard to sell. We already have regional qualifiers with the WCS, WCG, TL, MLG, IEM, etc. I've been paying very close attention to all the qualifiers and the numbers for most are very poor. WCS did well because a lot of those qualifiers were outsourced and were part of dual events.
*
Time and time the latter proves to be true. To be a real pro. It's a full-time struggle to stay on top and there are very few players who have the actual talent to pull off such feats. To do that in a North American market? They find themselves right up against the wall from the start.
At least China is keeping up in LoL and we've seen what can happen in the WC3 scene.
I don't think high level play is boring either. I can understand where your coming from when you say Regionals can be fairy competitive and entertaining as well because I do watch them and they're far more balanced because the players are in and around the same level thus the games are going to competitive and it won't just be a squash.
High-level play isn't boring, it just doesn't necessarily mean it will be the most interesting or the only matches worth watching.
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
There is absolutely no money in that though and going back to your previous response where you quoted me.
It's incredibly hard to sell. We already have regional qualifiers with the WCS, WCG, TL, MLG, IEM, etc. I've been paying very close attention to all the qualifiers and the numbers for most are very poor. WCS did well because a lot of those qualifiers were outsourced and were part of dual events.
*
Time and time the latter proves to be true. To be a real pro. It's a full-time struggle to stay on top and there are very few players who have the actual talent to pull off such feats. To do that in a North American market? They find themselves right up against the wall from the start.
At least China is keeping up in LoL and we've seen what can happen in the WC3 scene.
I don't think high level play is boring either. I can understand where your coming from when you say Regionals can be fairy competitive and entertaining as well because I do watch them and they're far more balanced because the players are in and around the same level thus the games are going to competitive and it won't just be a squash.
High-level play isn't boring, it just doesn't necessarily mean it will be the most interesting or the only matches worth watching.
Why of course, but the thing is you cannot change people's viewing habits and since there are so many live streams/ tournaments happening around the clock they will selectively choose what they want to watch.
I'd rather have less selection and more pointed focus for the viewers.
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
There is absolutely no money in that though and going back to your previous response where you quoted me.
It's incredibly hard to sell. We already have regional qualifiers with the WCS, WCG, TL, MLG, IEM, etc. I've been paying very close attention to all the qualifiers and the numbers for most are very poor. WCS did well because a lot of those qualifiers were outsourced and were part of dual events.
*
Time and time the latter proves to be true. To be a real pro. It's a full-time struggle to stay on top and there are very few players who have the actual talent to pull off such feats. To do that in a North American market? They find themselves right up against the wall from the start.
At least China is keeping up in LoL and we've seen what can happen in the WC3 scene.
I don't think high level play is boring either. I can understand where your coming from when you say Regionals can be fairy competitive and entertaining as well because I do watch them and they're far more balanced because the players are in and around the same level thus the games are going to competitive and it won't just be a squash.
High-level play isn't boring, it just doesn't necessarily mean it will be the most interesting or the only matches worth watching.
Why of course, but the thing is you cannot change people's viewing habits and since there are so many live streams/ tournaments happening around the clock they will selectively choose what they want to watch.
I'd rather have less selection and more pointed focus for the viewers.
More selection means more variability and changes. Yes, you can change people's viewing habits, obviously you can't force it.
On November 07 2012 11:22 Dosey wrote: I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I believe we need more integration and less separation. As it stands now, Koreans just practice amongst themselves, and when a Foreigner event comes along, they swoop in and steal our lunch money leaving us wondering what the hell happened. We need something that forces integration. Something like a mandatory foreign exchange program (totally implausible, I know, but let's roll with it god damnit) Get together all the foreign and korean teams with team houses and do a mandatory pair up with Korean teams. Be it lotto, selection based on past performances, whatever. We just gotta get them paired.
Once everyone is paired, the teams select three players from their respective sides. Three is random number, it can be more, but it shouldn't be less. 3 K's to Foreigner Land 3 F's to Korea Land
Why is this beneficial to both sides? K sends players that could use exposure in Foreigner Land market, gaining fans to bring back to Korea K's get to participate in tournaments that they would otherwise be unable to attend due to the cost of flying overseas K players at the top level in Korea would still be able to participate in tournaments due to qualifiers paying for everything K players are well practiced & very skilled, this would act as a motivator to F's K's in Foreigner Land can participate in Online Team Leagues vs F's without annoying cross-server lag K's make friends and learn English more easily, creating a much more unified scene
F sends players that could use the practice and learning experience of playing at the K level daily F learns by playing with the best of the best F is coached by the best of the best F is able to participate in GSTL and other K leagues, showing how they compare to K and their growth while there F is able to compete against other K's in Online Team Leagues without annoying cross-server lag F gains Korean fans, creating more interest in Foreigner Land events F makes K friends and helps to unify the scene F brings back his experience and helps to enforce K methods upon fellow F's
How does this differ from team partnerships? 1)Team partnerships generally just allow Koreans already in Korea to join an already existing team house, with a single foreigner being shipped away to Korea Land to fend for himself and steal a GSL seed, only to be knocked out due to lack of preparation & practice
2)No Koreans from pro teams ever stay with a foreigner team that they are partnered with for extended periods and help enforce a practice regiment and/or help motivate the team.
Increasing the overall availability of Foreigner-Korean play could have one of two effects. 1) It increases the skill level of foreigners due to easier access in a unified scene with shared information 2) Koreans completely phase out Foreigners due to their total lack of natural ability and Korea takes over the e-World
If it's the latter, we should just give up anyway and stop kidding ourselves. Segregation wont save us if we can't stand up to them on our own turf. I know this scenario would never happen... Just my thoughts on the best method to close the skill gap.
This is actually coinciding with what I am saying. There needs to be a maintaining of intergration for international tournaments: MLG, GSL, DreamHack, ESL.
But there needs to be events below that help prosper all regions. Similar to what the GSL implicitly does (not their intention, but ends up being so, highlighting the best of the Koreans)
The pairing up of Koreans and foreigners isn't feasible as you know both due to the language differences, cultural as well as pace of work ethics for starters (at least, that's my initial take on it, something to investigate for sure).
There is absolutely no money in that though and going back to your previous response where you quoted me.
It's incredibly hard to sell. We already have regional qualifiers with the WCS, WCG, TL, MLG, IEM, etc. I've been paying very close attention to all the qualifiers and the numbers for most are very poor. WCS did well because a lot of those qualifiers were outsourced and were part of dual events.
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Time and time the latter proves to be true. To be a real pro. It's a full-time struggle to stay on top and there are very few players who have the actual talent to pull off such feats. To do that in a North American market? They find themselves right up against the wall from the start.
At least China is keeping up in LoL and we've seen what can happen in the WC3 scene.
I don't think high level play is boring either. I can understand where your coming from when you say Regionals can be fairy competitive and entertaining as well because I do watch them and they're far more balanced because the players are in and around the same level thus the games are going to competitive and it won't just be a squash.
High-level play isn't boring, it just doesn't necessarily mean it will be the most interesting or the only matches worth watching.
Why of course, but the thing is you cannot change people's viewing habits and since there are so many live streams/ tournaments happening around the clock they will selectively choose what they want to watch.
I'd rather have less selection and more pointed focus for the viewers.
More selection means more variability and changes. Yes, you can change people's viewing habits, obviously you can't force it.
well the biggest thing is to change peoples perception, and negativity towards anything that isnt hyped as being the best of the best. You cant force it, but we can still try to change it by putting quality games and decent production value into smaller stuff. Its not something that will happen instantly by pouring a bunch of money into, its something that just needs to be worked in over time to give that feeling that its improved.
The best way to change perception is to inform and showcase, no different than any other service or product. But once again, it comes down to cost and willingness to try it (which no one wants to put down right now)
EPT
