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On October 17 2012 00:59 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 23:59 seanisgrand wrote:
Wait so orb makes some distasteful racial comments pre-dating his involvement with EG and is compeltely shit-canned, and Stephano makes some even more heinous comments concurrent with his involvement with EG and so far he only gets a slap on the wrist?
Where is Alex writing a big post about pedophilia and how it's no laughing matter even when comments are made in jest, like he did because of his prior involvement with AA studies.
The agenda here is palpable. Just ridiculous. I don't know, I don't think the situations are similar at all and I disagree with how they handled the Orb situation and agree with how they handled this situation. Orb was a caster, relatively up-and-coming, staying at their house and cashing in on a great opportunity. It sucks that he got nailed for something he did in the past, but in this industry, more than ever, you have to keep your PC face on all the time if you want job security. That's just the way it is. But there would have been little reason for Alex to stand behind a relatively minor caster (even if I did like his work) when it could damage his relationship with EG's sponsors. Stephano, on the other hand, was a huge investment on their part and is arguably the best player on a struggling team. You have to keep him, but you also have to show that this kind of stuff won't be tolerated. It may be an agenda, but it's a predictable one that I don't think is particularly unethical. He was suspended without pay, what more of a punishment do you want for a player who is in it for the money and the competition?
What you said is a much more diplomatic way of stating many of my feelings. As an fan, the handling is what I don't like, but this situation isn't finalized whatsoever. An organizations values matter more to me than them handling a situation differently depending on how it affects the bottom-line. That's personal view.
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I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off.
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On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off.
Except they aren't backing off EG, they're backing off Stephano. Worst comes to worst if stephano "repeat-offends", he'll be the one leaving the EG brand, not the sponsors. You don't really understand how the world works, do you?
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On October 17 2012 01:04 hpTheGreat wrote:
lol
They are both teenagers ffs.
If you are only 15,16,17, you think that those 5 years is a long time because it is 30% of your life but in reality, it is nothing.
And he is a kid himself...
Some laws are stupid that is why we can change them. Example:
Stephano can be called a pedophile for doing that but a 50 year old man can bang an 18 yr old girl as much as he wants and it is completely legal. Some laws are just dumb.
That law will never change. 14 year olds do not generally make rational decisions as they are going through puberty and are not necessarily in control of there actions. 18 year olds generally have gone through puberty completely and are able to make rational decisions (even if others view them to be incorrect).
People in here seem to thing that just because you are able to do something means you are rationally deciding to do something. In some cases they are the same, but often, especially with a human going through puberty, they are not.
Lastly, another disturbing part is that he consciously used the word abuse in his statement. He didn't just say he was in love with a 14 yo and had sex with her, he said he "abused her" which admits he is knows he wasn't doing something correct.
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On October 17 2012 01:16 virtu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Except they aren't backing off EG, they're backing off Stephano. Worst comes to worst if stephano "repeat-offends", he'll be the one leaving the EG brand, not the sponsors. You don't really understand how the world works, do you?
you're right - I am sure the Atlanta falcons wouldn't have taken any heat from their sponsors if they kept Vick through the dog killing scandal.
Probably the NFL didn't take any heat from sponsors for that either.
I am sure Penn state isn't feeling any repercussions from the scandal there either. After all, they got rid of Sandusky.
The best part of your post was your last sentence though.
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On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off.
Sponsors allow teams and organisers to make tournaments around the world and they send their players there. Without it esport would be (nearly) nonexistent (or noway near that scale). How can you say that they don't support esport? And how is it not understandable that they don't want to be affiliated with (very) bad press? This happens everywhere in esport, it happend with Destiny, Naniwa Orb, hackers, etc. That's why people have to learn how to behave infront of the camera or (in this case) be more careful.
And what do you mean with your lvl of trust has dropped? You don't trust them to do what anymore? Support esport?
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On October 17 2012 01:20 pugowar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:16 virtu wrote:On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Except they aren't backing off EG, they're backing off Stephano. Worst comes to worst if stephano "repeat-offends", he'll be the one leaving the EG brand, not the sponsors. You don't really understand how the world works, do you? you're right - I am sure the Atlanta falcons wouldn't have taken any heat from their sponsors if they kept Vick through the dog killing scandal. Probably the NFL didn't take any heat from sponsors for that either. I am sure Penn state isn't feeling any repercussions from the scandal there either. After all, they got rid of Sandusky. The best part of your post was your last sentence though.
1, Michael Vick still takes heat all the time and he was in prison. Thus, let off the team AND legal actions happened. But do the Eagles and Falcons look worse? Hell no, dropped him, went to Prison, did his time and punishment, and now is trying to do the best he can be for an animal rights activists and he knows what he did was wrong.
2.Penn state is feeling massive repercussions for letting it happen for so long as of people knew of it. Aka PENN STATE knew what was going on with the higher ups, but never said anything. You really need to know your sports before you talk about them Punishment :$60 mill fine and a four year bowl ban, and a bad reputation until time works its magic and people trust the college again.
Your point is so far off its not even funny.
Best part about your post is, the last sentence. You don't really understand what you're talking about before you post it, do you?
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On October 17 2012 01:21 Hardigan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Sponsors allow teams and organisers to make tournaments around the world and they send their players there. Without it esport would be (nearly) nonexistent (or noway near that scale). How can you say that they don't support esport? And how is it not understandable that they don't want to be affiliated with (very) bad press? This happens everywhere in esport, it happend with Destiny, Naniwa Orb, hackers, etc. That's why people have to learn how to behave infront of the camera or (in this case) be more careful. And what do you mean with your lvl of trust has dropped? You don't trust them to do what anymore? Support esport?
I say that they are too afraid of potential contamination in a negative manner from the "stephano scandal" to their own brands. But that there is no proof that they have been negatively affected and so their premature or temporary departure from stephano is a cause for concern as they are willing to flush out players based on possibilities and not fact. If sponsors can't standby players, in this case the most popular and best foreigner, when they are back against a wall what are there support really worth?
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Not necessarily pedo.
Some people are very attracted by virgins because they're insecured about their masculinity. Thus they want to make love with someone who wouldn't be able to judge them too harshly nor compare them with someone else.
A lot of young males and old ones (whose physics start to deteriorate) have these kind of "obscene" feelings.
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On October 17 2012 01:35 archonOOid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:21 Hardigan wrote:On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Sponsors allow teams and organisers to make tournaments around the world and they send their players there. Without it esport would be (nearly) nonexistent (or noway near that scale). How can you say that they don't support esport? And how is it not understandable that they don't want to be affiliated with (very) bad press? This happens everywhere in esport, it happend with Destiny, Naniwa Orb, hackers, etc. That's why people have to learn how to behave infront of the camera or (in this case) be more careful. And what do you mean with your lvl of trust has dropped? You don't trust them to do what anymore? Support esport? I say that they are too afraid of potential contamination in a negative manner from the "stephano scandal" to their own brands. But that there is no proof that they have been negatively affected and so their premature or temporary departure from stephano is a cause for concern as they are willing to flush out players based on possibilities and not fact. If sponsors can't standby players, in this case the most popular and best foreigner, when they are back against a wall what are there support really worth?
You're still not understanding how the world of corporate sponsorship works. You don't just sit back and see if something negatively effects your company and THEN act on it; you act on incomplete information to try to avoid a perceived loss. This is how the entire economy works, not just corporate sponsorship. Stephano said something that was highly inflammatory, and it doesn't take a whole lot of foresight to see that it will cause some damage to a sponsor that doesn't do anything about it, so they punished him in an attempt to mitigate any possible damages to their brand.
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Good but unfortunate forced reaction from EG to a stupid thing that never should have happened in the first place if Stephano had understood to keep obscene statements in private discussions which an online chat session certainly isn't.
I don't think anything more needs to be said on this.
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On October 17 2012 01:35 archonOOid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:21 Hardigan wrote:On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Sponsors allow teams and organisers to make tournaments around the world and they send their players there. Without it esport would be (nearly) nonexistent (or noway near that scale). How can you say that they don't support esport? And how is it not understandable that they don't want to be affiliated with (very) bad press? This happens everywhere in esport, it happend with Destiny, Naniwa Orb, hackers, etc. That's why people have to learn how to behave infront of the camera or (in this case) be more careful. And what do you mean with your lvl of trust has dropped? You don't trust them to do what anymore? Support esport? I say that they are too afraid of potential contamination in a negative manner from the "stephano scandal" to their own brands. But that there is no proof that they have been negatively affected and so their premature or temporary departure from stephano is a cause for concern as they are willing to flush out players based on possibilities and not fact. If sponsors can't standby players, in this case the most popular and best foreigner, when they are back against a wall what are there support really worth?
You act like it was the sponsors who suspended Stephano. Even so your argument is weird, welcome to the real world where sponsors are not into sports for charity. You seem to think "supporting" mean "give away money with no strings attached."
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On October 17 2012 01:32 CarpetmoOse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:20 pugowar wrote:On October 17 2012 01:16 virtu wrote:On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Except they aren't backing off EG, they're backing off Stephano. Worst comes to worst if stephano "repeat-offends", he'll be the one leaving the EG brand, not the sponsors. You don't really understand how the world works, do you? you're right - I am sure the Atlanta falcons wouldn't have taken any heat from their sponsors if they kept Vick through the dog killing scandal. Probably the NFL didn't take any heat from sponsors for that either. I am sure Penn state isn't feeling any repercussions from the scandal there either. After all, they got rid of Sandusky. The best part of your post was your last sentence though. 1, Michael Vick still takes heat all the time and he was in prison. Thus, let off the team AND legal actions happened. But do the Eagles and Falcons look worse? Hell no, dropped him, went to Prison, did his time and punishment, and now is trying to do the best he can be for an animal rights activists and he knows what he did was wrong. 2.Penn state is feeling massive repercussions for letting it happen for so long as of people knew of it. Aka PENN STATE knew what was going on with the higher ups, but never said anything. You really need to know your sports before you talk about them Punishment :$60 mill fine and a four year bowl ban, and a bad reputation until time works its magic and people trust the college again. Your point is so far off its not even funny. Best part about your post is, the last sentence. You don't really understand what you're talking about before you post it, do you?
1) My point is that if the Falcons had kept Vick on there would have been financial repercussions, which is why they let him go.
2) My point is that Penn state felt financial repercussions due to the conduct of an employee (and that they let it go so far only made it worse). You don't think that if they didn't know about it they wouldn't have felt any pressure from corporate sponsors?
Both of which are evidence that an employees actions can financially impact the company they work for.
And yes, Vick is back and has atoned for his mistakes. But that doesn't mean that IF the falcons or the NFL didn't punish him, they wouldn't have had corporations pull their sponsorship.
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Guys...
It's just sex. Lighten up.
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On October 17 2012 02:06 AdrianHealey wrote:
Guys...
It's just sex. Lighten up.
Quoted by every date rapist on the planet.
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On October 17 2012 01:52 pugowar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:32 CarpetmoOse wrote:On October 17 2012 01:20 pugowar wrote:On October 17 2012 01:16 virtu wrote:On October 17 2012 01:05 archonOOid wrote:
I think this whole situation will backfire for EG as my level of trust for their sponsors have dropped severely and subsequently for EG as well. Sponsors like Monster, Steelseries and Kingston can't be taken seriously within the e-sport sphere because they are so easily scared by the anti campaigns from a bunch of dickheads/trolls/redditors. The sponsors say they are supporting e-sports but when things get a bit windy they back off. Except they aren't backing off EG, they're backing off Stephano. Worst comes to worst if stephano "repeat-offends", he'll be the one leaving the EG brand, not the sponsors. You don't really understand how the world works, do you? you're right - I am sure the Atlanta falcons wouldn't have taken any heat from their sponsors if they kept Vick through the dog killing scandal. Probably the NFL didn't take any heat from sponsors for that either. I am sure Penn state isn't feeling any repercussions from the scandal there either. After all, they got rid of Sandusky. The best part of your post was your last sentence though. 1, Michael Vick still takes heat all the time and he was in prison. Thus, let off the team AND legal actions happened. But do the Eagles and Falcons look worse? Hell no, dropped him, went to Prison, did his time and punishment, and now is trying to do the best he can be for an animal rights activists and he knows what he did was wrong. 2.Penn state is feeling massive repercussions for letting it happen for so long as of people knew of it. Aka PENN STATE knew what was going on with the higher ups, but never said anything. You really need to know your sports before you talk about them Punishment :$60 mill fine and a four year bowl ban, and a bad reputation until time works its magic and people trust the college again. Your point is so far off its not even funny. Best part about your post is, the last sentence. You don't really understand what you're talking about before you post it, do you? 1) My point is that if the Falcons had kept Vick on there would have been financial repercussions, which is why they let him go. 2) My point is that Penn state felt financial repercussions due to the conduct of an employee (and that they let it go so far only made it worse). You don't think that if they didn't know about it they wouldn't have felt any pressure from corporate sponsors? Both of which are evidence that an employees actions can financially impact the company they work for. And yes, Vick is back and has atoned for his mistakes. But that doesn't mean that IF the falcons or the NFL didn't punish him, they wouldn't have had corporations pull their sponsorship.
Falcons didn't let him go, they HAD to. He went to PRISON. And if you haven't noticed, when he goes there, people are still rooting for him with the ATL's shirt on. But yes I will agree with you 100% that financial repercussions will happen, but the teams / sponsors will do what 1. loses the least amount of money and 2. what looks the best to the majority. So its kinda a double edge sword. I suppose I'll meet you half way and agree with you on some of your points.  No hostility here. =D
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On October 17 2012 02:29 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 02:06 AdrianHealey wrote:
Guys...
It's just sex. Lighten up. Quoted by every date rapist on the planet.
Man, stop being american, please. Those guys are just morons coming from a culture so young that they can't even laugh at serious things.
Relax guys, let people says whatever they want. It doesn't matter until they really do it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 16 2012 18:25 Isolation wrote:
re: white knight
Wasn't referring to you specifically, just similar knee-jerk reactions that lots of posters/gamers give when people start bringing political correctness discussion.
I'm not too sure what you're arguing. Are you arguing that basically the gaming community is full of immature, rude, racist, sexist, and unfunny losers, so we shouldn't try to change its image to one that is fun, open-minded, driven, and passionate group of people? Many of the popular commentators have succeed in showing the "nerd" community as what it is: a group of smart people who enjoy playing games and have fun.
Are you saying that, to you, gaming is about calling each other racial/homophobic slurs, and making sexist/inappropriate jokes? Because otherwise, I don't see why it would be wrong for the gaming community to keep these problematic behaviour in check... just like any other reasonable community.
How can you say that the community is overzealous in persecuting him? The guy only got a one month suspension. In other industries he would've been fired instantly. If anything, this is merely a symbolic gesture really, to show that EG does not condone jokes like that, and good on them. I don't want to support people who think rape jokes are cool either.
It's a simple matter; he made a stupid joke, he apologizes, he won't do it again, we move on. Him apologizing and people coming out and acknowledging the fact that it was not acceptable is an important part of moving on.
If anything, EG not punishing him would (and should) cause people to talk about this for a lot longer than they will, because they would be silently condoning his actions.
Ya, I'm sorry if my argument is coming off as vague. That's probably part of the reason you're misrepresenting it and attacking some points I never made. My arguments not really rooted around the stephano incident specifically. Its more just a rant geared towards this, and all the other similar drama events that pop up around players getting suspended/banned/criticized/ostracized. Stephano's punishment was actually rather mild when compared to the punishment others received. I'm not trying to argue against his suspension, I'm trying to argue against all the drama centered around incidents like it. Ironic, I know, because here I am contributing to it, in a way.
What my point really boils down to is this: the starcraft scene was better off before all these silly PC-campaigns started happening. That's really all I'm trying to say.
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Honestly...I'm prepared to get a lot of hate for this, but, I agree here. And no it's not because I'm biased against Stephano - let me explain. Nobody *knew* if he was joking or not. Like someone said before, BlinG's expression says it all. This could have been potentially very, very serious. When someone makes a claim of child abuse, joking or not, people are *obligated* to take it seriously. It's similar to a bomb threat in that regard. -remembering three days in a row of faked bomb threats at school because kids knew it would have to be taken seriously and would get us out of class- There are some things that are simply taboo...and honestly I think EG did the right thing. I can see where people are coming from, saying that it's just a joke and that Stephano is not a bad person, and these are both true. However this is simply the way society works - there are some things that are taken seriously and *have* to be taken seriously because if you start ignoring them you run the risk of ignoring a case where it's true...that's just the way things *are*. ...Sorry.
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On October 17 2012 03:02 itkovian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 18:25 Isolation wrote:
re: white knight
Wasn't referring to you specifically, just similar knee-jerk reactions that lots of posters/gamers give when people start bringing political correctness discussion.
I'm not too sure what you're arguing. Are you arguing that basically the gaming community is full of immature, rude, racist, sexist, and unfunny losers, so we shouldn't try to change its image to one that is fun, open-minded, driven, and passionate group of people? Many of the popular commentators have succeed in showing the "nerd" community as what it is: a group of smart people who enjoy playing games and have fun.
Are you saying that, to you, gaming is about calling each other racial/homophobic slurs, and making sexist/inappropriate jokes? Because otherwise, I don't see why it would be wrong for the gaming community to keep these problematic behaviour in check... just like any other reasonable community.
How can you say that the community is overzealous in persecuting him? The guy only got a one month suspension. In other industries he would've been fired instantly. If anything, this is merely a symbolic gesture really, to show that EG does not condone jokes like that, and good on them. I don't want to support people who think rape jokes are cool either.
It's a simple matter; he made a stupid joke, he apologizes, he won't do it again, we move on. Him apologizing and people coming out and acknowledging the fact that it was not acceptable is an important part of moving on.
If anything, EG not punishing him would (and should) cause people to talk about this for a lot longer than they will, because they would be silently condoning his actions. Ya, I'm sorry if my argument is coming off as vague. That's probably part of the reason you're misrepresenting it and attacking some points I never made. My arguments not really rooted around the stephano incident specifically. Its more just a rant geared towards this, and all the other similar drama events that pop up around players getting suspended/banned/criticized/ostracized. Stephano's punishment was actually rather mild when compared to the punishment others received. I'm not trying to argue against his suspension, I'm trying to argue against all the drama centered around incidents like it. Ironic, I know, because here I am contributing to it, in a way. What my point really boils down to is this: the starcraft scene was better off before all these silly PC-campaigns started happening. That's really all I'm trying to say.
Were we really? I'm pretty sure the fighting game community is a good example of a pre-"PC Campaign" community and they're kinda gross. They are stilly heinously misogynistic and they racist/homophobic jokes are so common that you'd be hard pressed to convince any rational outside observer that it's little more than a KKK rally.
I'm honestly surprised that little incidents like these STILL spark so much objection. Time and time again community leaders have made it clear that they don't want their players/casters behaving this way. They are the ones dealing with all the money so if anyone knew how this behavior impacted business it would be them. They either don't think they can sell Starcraft to the mainstream with this behavior or these fan protests actually do financially threaten them and this change is coming internally. Either way, people who think that this is just harmless fun are in the minority (otherwise there wouldn't be action taken against players/casters).
At this point I've completely lost interest in the actual incidents and I'm genuinely fascinated by the people who, time and time again, argue that this behavior has a place in our community. Who do you really think you're going to convince?
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EPT
